Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I've most finished the construction of my Crimson Fists, and having recently seen a really good tau player in action, am thinking of picking up the Tau as my next army. I've been skimming through the Codex, and all I have to say is battle suits ROCK. I'm definitely picking up a bunch of Crisis suits, but there are so many options XD. I'm a little lost in picking out what to use and in what combinations.

For Shas'O Commanders, what are good combinations for you army HQ? The Airbursting Fragmentation Launcher is certainly interesting, but then for his body guards what weapons mesh well with what the commander can carry? Are shield generators and stimulant injectors worth it for those with access to special issue gear?

And what are good combinations for elite choice Crisis suits? If possible I'd love a basic run down of kits to put on the suits for anti-armor, anti-infantry, etc.

Dashofpepper has written some good stuff on tau tacticas which include discussions about how to equip suits. Do a search under his name for some good reads.

He makes a point over and over again which I completely agree on, which is while Fireknife configuration may be popular, its not the best. (fireknife is plasma, misslepods and multi tracker) He's standpoint is that the weapons don't mix.

I completely agree with him. I think that crisis suits are now cheap enough and you can easily fit 6 suits into a 1750 point plus list, and the need for generalize suits isn't needed.

I love deathrains. (TL misslepods and targeting array) They pretty reliably put 5+ Str 7 hits on a target. Throw a target lock on the leader and you can put the right shots on all those transports out there. They fill a very important role in the Tau force that other selections can't really bring (middle strength shooting) You get lots of anti horde from your FW, great heavy armor busting with Railguns.

You then look to your other suits to deal with anti heavy infantry, like terminators and even regular marines. Namely Helios suits (plasma and fusion, multi tracker). These guys can start in reserve and show up where and when you need them, and put a hurt on the appropriate targets.

I'd stay away from burst cannons on your suits, you can get plenty of STR 5 shooting elsewhere. Flamers are interesting, but I wouldn't take an entire unit of suits featuring flamers.

Go twin linked on anything and you will be on the right track.
Dash contradicts himself by saying he wants to specialize but chose Helios.

For specialization, twin linked is the way to go - you are always firing all you have without having to purchase multi-tracker.

Orkish wrote:Go twin linked on anything and you will be on the right track.
Dash contradicts himself by saying he wants to specialize but chose Helios.

For specialization, twin linked is the way to go - you are always firing all you have without having to purchase multi-tracker.

I'll let Dash defend himself...

but I disagree with the idea of TL everything. A Deathrain TL because no other weapon marries well with it, due to range, str or AP. (plasma comes close in STR, but range is wonky and AP is clearly off)

now to defend Dash... Helios weapons marry really well,with plasma IMO. You want to get within 12" with your plasma to double tap and then jump back out of danger. And that turn you do it you want to utilize markerlight hits to either: remove/worsen cover saves, or raise the shooter's BS to hit more, making TL even less impactful.

to me, the Helios team is the most "fluffy" crisis team to take, because they should get right in there and mix it up, saving the rest of your army in a manner that only they can with only the weapons that they can take, high STR, low AP stuff. An The key is to try and get them to survive the close contact, and I think they need shield drones and good generalship to do so.

I do, however, feel that in a Helios team you need to mix up the wargear and weapons in order to take advantage of the wound allocation rules, and would TL one of the member's plasma in doing that.

Dainty Twerp wrote:but I disagree with the idea of TL everything. A Deathrain TL because no other weapon marries well with it, due to range, str or AP. (plasma comes close in STR, but range is wonky and AP is clearly off)

now to defend Dash... Helios weapons marry really well,with plasma IMO. You want to get within 12" with your plasma to double tap and then jump back out of danger. And that turn you do it you want to utilize markerlight hits to either: remove/worsen cover saves, or raise the shooter's BS to hit more, making TL even less impactful.

I do, however, feel that in a Helios team you need to mix up the wargear and weapons in order to take advantage of the wound allocation rules, and would TL one of the member's plasma in doing that.

You just said it yourself - You WANT the plasma, not the fusion - no reason for the fusion. I don't see how markerlights make twin link less impactful. BS3 with rerolls still isnt very reliable. BS4 with rerolls will be better, and BS5 with rerolls is excellent. It is never wasted.

Since we're already discussing battlesuits are there any tips for the broadsides?

To the OP...

Here be the three most popular configurations of Crisis Suits

1) Fireknife - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker

2) Death Rain - Twin-linked Missile Pod, Target Array OR Flamer

3) Helios - Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multi-tracker


The thing with Fireknife, is your suit can do everything, but can do nothing well. Your Plasma Rifle is very sub-par against any targets your Missile Pod is firing at, and your Missile Pod is almost useless against Meqs.


Helios is geared for killing meqs, teqs, and, if need be, armour that gets in close. The AP2 and AP1 of the weapons complement each other extremely well. The fact that both weapons are optimal at close range complement each other extremely well (and with today's drop podding, out flanking, air cav, mech wall army - your enemy will get close). That deep striking Terminator or Obliterator squad is laughing at that Missile Pod on your XV8 - not so much if your suit has a melta gun equivalent.


Deathrain is pretty much agreed to be a solid, solid suit configuration. Cheap and effective.

Commander suits are pretty much your choice, though it is almost always better to get a Shas'el with a Target Array versus a Shas'o (you're basically paying an extra 15 points for things you'll never need - higher WS, +1 Attack...).

Never put a Burst Cannon on a Crisis suit.


Broadsides come out of the factory with ASS's. The Team Leader gets that and hard-wired Shield Drones, and Plasma Rifles/multi-trackers if you have points to throw around. They belong in cover.

Farsight: 1xx
4 x bodyguard: 416
4 x TL plasma rifle, 1 x positional relay, 3 x fusion blasters, 3 x hardwired multi-trackers, 4 x hard wired drone controllers, 6 x shield drones

I find it sad that a Shas'o has better BS than farsight, but if you want a dead meq squad this thing should be able to do it for you. Combined with a pathfinder squad to remove cover and increase BS with any extra lights and you should be able to kill a MEQ squad a turn (or a TEQ squad without storm shields). Can work on MCs to (used this against the new nids recently, and if it weren't for completely crap rolls to wound they would have killed more than a hive tyrant and a Trigon).

The positional relay, combined with the pathfinder devilfish, is used for one of 2 squads:
1. if going against orks:

3 x crisis suits: 144
2 x TL flamers, 2 x burst cannons,
Shas’vre: TL flamer, frag projector, hard wired multi-tracker

2. if going against MEQ/mech/MC heavy:

3 x crisis suits: 159
3 x TL fusion blasters, 3 x targeting arrays

I don't trust fire warriors to deal with hordes, since they just don't have the BS nor the number of shots to stop that boyz squad. However, 3 flamers re-rolling to wound along with a large blast flamer should be quite devastating. Paired with cover fire from a hammer head and you should be relatively safe from enemy assaults.

The TL fusion blaster squad isn't that impressive though. It should reliable remove any enemy tank short of a wave serpent, but with only 3 shots they aren't my favorite.

Broadsides are brilliant, and due to their range you can equip them with whatever support system you want (although ASS's tend to be preferred). Drones can help keep the nasty wounds off for a bit, while the targeting array makes them more accurate. A multi tracker can be used so you can fire the rail gun and whatever other gun they have in the same shooting phase for a bit more fire power too. In the list I have with Farsight I have a pair of 88s with 2 shield drones each. The only major drawback of 88s is how expensive they are for in effect 1 gun, but they certainly have a good gun. They do appreciate shield drones though.

As to a shas'o over shas'el, the shas'o does get that extra point of BS, and that extra wound, so those 25 points actually are quite worth it (improved Ld also).

Only thing I will say is:

Believe the hype about Fireknife suits. They really are the best. They do everything. I have yet to ever be upset by their performance. 3 autocannons + 3 plasma guns on a mobile platform? yes please.

Against MEQ's, you light up the squad with marker lights and then put 5-6 un-savable and 5-6 savable wounds on it. And your probably going to kill 7-8 of them.

No matter what suit you take, they are going to be expensive. Now, would you rather have 150 invested in suits that will get 1 turn of shooting and then die or 180 pts invested in a squad that will survive most of the game?

Isn't the Fireknife config the melta+Plasma combo?

I thought plasma+pods was Deathrain.

Fireknife = Plasma, Missile Pod, Multitracker
Deathrain = Twin-Linked Missile Pod, with the third hard point being usually either Target Array or a Flamer (sometimes Blacksun Filter)
Helios = Plasma, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker

Lorek wrote:Fireknife = Plasma, Missile Pod, Multitracker
Deathrain = Twin-Linked Missile Pod, with the third hard point being usually either Target Array or a Flamer (sometimes Blacksun Filter)
Helios = Plasma, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker

I can't find the full list on ATT but I can add:

Firestorm=Missilepod, Burst Cannon,Multi-tracker
Heatwave=Twin Linked Flamers (then your choice)(Hellstorm if missile pods are added)
Sunforge=Twin Linked Fusion (and then usually a targetting array)

Orkish wrote:

Dainty Twerp wrote:but I disagree with the idea of TL everything. A Deathrain TL because no other weapon marries well with it, due to range, str or AP. (plasma comes close in STR, but range is wonky and AP is clearly off)

now to defend Dash... Helios weapons marry really well,with plasma IMO. You want to get within 12" with your plasma to double tap and then jump back out of danger. And that turn you do it you want to utilize markerlight hits to either: remove/worsen cover saves, or raise the shooter's BS to hit more, making TL even less impactful.

I do, however, feel that in a Helios team you need to mix up the wargear and weapons in order to take advantage of the wound allocation rules, and would TL one of the member's plasma in doing that.

You just said it yourself - You WANT the plasma, not the fusion - no reason for the fusion. I don't see how markerlights make twin link less impactful. BS3 with rerolls still isnt very reliable. BS4 with rerolls will be better, and BS5 with rerolls is excellent. It is never wasted.

You also want the Fusion because it gives you an additional armor ignoring shot with the same optimal range. In an army that can modify their ballistic skill on the fly, potential damage outweighs statistical damage.

To the OP, build the rest of your army first (on paper). Your suits are a platform for you to fill gaps, so leave about 300 points open for them and suit them (pun) for whatever you are missing.

On the note of equiping commanders and bodyguards with generators dont bother, ither get a DC or Hwdc and a sheild drone (or 2 if you got points) for an extra wound and invun save, and bond them for the same points and slot taking.
The Stim injectors are good for a leader with drones who is going it alone in smaller games, or a monat 'vre for tank busting.
Dont forget that bodyguards and 'Vre suits DO HAVE access to the wargear list, AND special issue items, so you can have the Abf etc on a team without a 'O or 'EL. hope this helps

If you take the unit of Shas'o and 2 bodyguard, and drones, make sure you grab a bonding knife, The drones can contribute to you falling back and regrouping. Also take the self destruct system on a guard, that way if you get caught in an assault you can get out.

doubled wrote:If you take the unit of Shas'o and 2 bodyguard, and drones, make sure you grab a bonding knife, The drones can contribute to you falling back and regrouping. Also take the self destruct system on a guard, that way if you get caught in an assault you can get out.

Doesnt it say in the codex drones never count for that? Nevermind

LordofHats wrote:Since we're already discussing battlesuits are there any tips for the broadsides?

Team leader with target lock. When I firebase my broadsides, I give them all target lock and a team leader with a couple of shield drones...

DarkHound wrote:You also want the Fusion because it gives you an additional armor ignoring shot with the same optimal range. In an army that can modify their ballistic skill on the fly, potential damage outweighs statistical damage.

Period. If you want an additional armor ignoring shot, just buy a 2nd plasma gun (ie twin linked) to do the same thing .

Orkish wrote:

DarkHound wrote:You also want the Fusion because it gives you an additional armor ignoring shot with the same optimal range. In an army that can modify their ballistic skill on the fly, potential damage outweighs statistical damage.

Period. If you want an additional armor ignoring shot, just buy a 2nd plasma gun (ie twin linked) to do the same thing .

What are you advoacating, and what are you talking about? TL'ing a weapon is not the same as adding more shots.

Orkish wrote:Go twin linked on anything and you will be on the right track.
Dash contradicts himself by saying he wants to specialize but chose Helios.

For specialization, twin linked is the way to go - you are always firing all you have without having to purchase multi-tracker.

Are you serious? A Helios suit is an MEQ/TEQ killer. That is their specialization. This is the third thread I've seen tonight where you pop in to say something insulting about me...stop it.

@OP: There's two camps for Tau. One camp says that Tau are great generalists, and you should play them that way. IE, the fireknife configuration (Plasma/Missile) is a generalist configuration that is ok at multiple things, but excels at none. The other camp says that you should specialize your Tau, and give them synergy. I fit into that camp. I think Space Marines are the average joes of 40k (because they are) and trying to play Tau like space marines is a mistake - you should build to their strengths, not try making them a jack-of-all-trades army.

There's a few configurations for suits that I'm fond of, and let me preface all of them with a couple of notes:

1. Its cheaper to take an elite unit and attach your HQ to it (by 10 points per model) than to build a bodyguard.

2. Equipping suits differently lets you take advantage of wound allocation to keep your suits alive.

3. Shield drones are your friend.

4. If you want a suit-centered army, check out O'Shava - Commander Farsight. He can take a HUGE suit retinue (called a Farsight Bomb) and you can do some ridiculous things with it.


With that in mind, here's what I generally put in my list for suits:

1. A Deathrain team: Twin-linked missile launchers, with two gun-drones on the team leader. These maneuver around the rear and work over light transports, or failing to acquire a target there, will drop wounds on monstrous creatures.

2. A Helios team: Plasma/Fusion/multi. I *definitely* prioritize markerlight support for these guys; I want them needing 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound with no armor saves allowed. These are MEQ/TEQ/MC killers with 3 STR8 shots and 6 STR6 shots. In a pinch, or against a fully mechanized army, they can double for anti-armor as well, but my railguns usually open up a couple of vehicles so that my Helios suits can go to work.

3. Fusion/Flamer or TL Flamer: Depending on point limit and configuration, I put this in singly or at most two suits and deep-strike them behind enemy lines (cheap 42 points or less) to get a rear armor melta, or to flame/fusiona vehicle and entrenched troops where I can. When I run into Tyranids, I keep these on my flanks to deal with outflanking genestealers, although I don't knoww hat the 5th edition metagame might be like.

4. Commander: I'm a big fan of Airburst / Flamer, and I keep my commander (usually Shas'o) to deal with hordes (orks/tyranids). The submunition rounds on a Hammerhead are great anti-horde weapons, but I think those heavy support slots are far too valuable to give up to hammerheads, so I deal with anti-horde through massed firewarrior shots, flamers, and an airburst frag launcher.

5. XV88s: Twin-linked railguns are the bane of all mechanized lists, and they *are* the backbone of my tau armies. Two teams of them, and depending on point levels, I either have two teams of two, or two teams of three. The team leader gets a hard wired target lock so that each team is capable of firing on two different vehicles each turn. I generally do so as well just to maximize their effectiveness unless I'm firing into a squadron. No need to tump three twin-linked railgun shots into a single vehicle in case the first shot does the trick.

In terms of suits, that should about answer your questions.


*EDIT* In fact, I think it would probably be best if you disregard what Orkish writes; not every poster on here knows the rules well, or makes tactical sense...

DarkHound wrote:What are you advoacating, and what are you talking about? TL'ing a weapon is not the same as adding more shots.

Let me SHOW you the math. You WANT to kill heavy infantry.

At 12 inch, BS3,
3 Twin Linked rapid plasma gives you AVG 4.5 hits.
3 rapid plasma + 3 fusions gives you 3 plasma hits + 1.5 fusion hits.

You gained no extra benefits paying more points for the fusion IF your aim is to kill MEQs or heavy infantry.

Dashofpepper wrote:Are you serious? A Helios suit is an MEQ/TEQ killer. That is their specialization. This is the third thread I've seen tonight where you pop in to say something insulting about me...stop it.

You propose specialization. You want to kill MEQs. Burning Eye gives the same avg no. of hits vs a Helios, at lower point cost. That's specialization.
You want a MEQ/TEQ killer? That's not specialization and is against what you strongly advocate. Unless you like specialization with abit of flexibility, then i LOL.

If Helios = MEQ/TEQ killer = specialization, then fireknife = MEQ/Light Tank killer = specializaition. You ve got to make up your mind.

Who is the one without tactical sense here?

Orkish, I don't think you just really said anything useful or in need of response so I won't with the exception of noting that you might want to re-read my post - you're mixed up, and your presentation is offensive.

Anyone, smart enough, please tell me how is Helios BETTER at killing terminators/marines than burning eye.

Orkish, please leave the personal attacks OUT of your debates in this thread, and really, everywhere else on Dakka.

No further action will be taken now, but from this point forward...

Actually, I also wondered how a fusion is better at killing termis or MEQs than fusion. Unless these people thought AP1 does a better job than AP2 here?


Personally, I ran only Deathrains, pure Deathrains.

Orkish wrote:

DarkHound wrote:What are you advoacating, and what are you talking about? TL'ing a weapon is not the same as adding more shots.

Let me SHOW you the math. You WANT to kill heavy infantry.

At 12 inch, BS3,
3 Twin Linked rapid plasma gives you AVG 4.5 hits.
3 rapid plasma + 3 fusions gives you 3 plasma hits + 1.5 fusion hits.

You gained no extra benefits paying more points for the fusion IF your aim is to kill MEQs or heavy infantry.

Dashofpepper wrote:Are you serious? A Helios suit is an MEQ/TEQ killer. That is their specialization. This is the third thread I've seen tonight where you pop in to say something insulting about me...stop it.

You propose specialization. You want to kill MEQs. Burning Eye gives the same avg no. of hits vs a Helios, at lower point cost. That's specialization.
You want a MEQ/TEQ killer? That's not specialization and is against what you strongly advocate. Unless you like specialization with abit of flexibility, then i LOL.

If Helios = MEQ/TEQ killer = specialization, then fireknife = MEQ/Light Tank killer = specializaition. You ve got to make up your mind.

Who is the one without tactical sense here?

Alright buddy, note that you are playing Tau. They are built around the force multiplier that is the Markerlight. Marines and Terminators are small in number, but you also need specialized weaponry to effectively kill him, so you'll expend Markerlights to increase the effectiveness of what is your only really effective option. So, at BS5 the benefit of an extra shot becomes much more apparent: 3 rapid firing TL Plasmaguns hit 5.82 times, but the Helios hit 7.47 times. The Helioses are much more effective due to its increased potential hits.

The Helios is a specialist because both of its weapons are seeking the same target, heavy infantry at close range. The Fireknife's weapons do not seek the same target: one gun hunts light vehicles and medium infantry at long range, the other hunts heavy infantry at short range. It is able to engage a variety of targets at a variety of ranges, but it never more effective at a single thing than a suit with coordinated weapons.

Davicus wrote:Actually, I also wondered how a fusion is better at killing termis or MEQs than fusion. Unless these people thought AP1 does a better job than AP2 here?


Personally, I ran only Deathrains, pure Deathrains.

Did you mean better than plasma? Fusion and plasma are both handy, but tacking both onto a suit gives you the ability to cause instant death on all the ICs out there without EW. Fusion also lets you wound MCs easier than plasma. And as I said above....Fusion gives you the ability to nuke vehicles where your railguns aren't if you need them to.

At the end fo the day - Helios suits give you three more shots than twin-linked plasma suits, and there's no reason you can't stack the odds in your favor with markerlights.

I dont agree with the part on markerlight. I always give markerlights to my 4-6 broadsides - simply because they have the best guns in my army.

As for seeking out heavy tanks and MCs, that is again the job of my broadsides, simply because they are more efficient in doing that. I want my Crisis Suits to be doing 1 thing, and COST EFFICIENT in doing that 1 thing. To equip them with fusion + plasma so that they can seek out MEQs/TEQs and be good at killing MCs/tanks isnt cost efficient or specialized at all.

Thus although I am an advocate of specializing my suits, I don't think Helios is a specialized suit at all.

I personally prefer the fireknife, and that's because I like to keep my foe further than arms length, while still retaining the ability to put off a lot of shots. Helios sounds nice, but it looks too risky for my taste.

I have been running three different squads of Crisis suits for very different uses on the battlefield.

My 3 suit Deathrain squad (+Targeting Array) is on the table at the beginning to take potshots at vehicles.

My 3 suit Firestorm squad (+Multitracker) is used as a Deepstrike and im looking for enemy troops who have already taken a round or two of fire from a Firewarrior squad....these are then dropped (hopefully) about 12 inches in the rear of a Tac or Devastator squad. You get 9 St5 and 6 St7 shots for 150pts....you will kill something, even with a 3+ save. (I fight almost exclusively MEQ armies, Marines and Necrons)

Lateley i have been using a 3 suit Helios squad (+Multitracker) and i Deepstrike say Turn 3 and put them right into the thick of the fight, targeting wounded Tac Squads or even Headhunting his Chapter Master.....9 power shots at 12" with JSJ ability should keep them alive for a turn or two and take a few of the Emperor's Finest with them

You can also take a 4th Crisis Suit squad if you Bodyguard up your Commander....My Shas'o runs AFP with a Plasma Rifle (HW Multitracker) and i will outfit his Bodyguards in the Helios pattern (with Multitracker.)
If i have the extra points ill give the Shas'O Stimulant injectors for the Feel No Pain universal rule and a Drone Controller with a Shield Drone or two.

I have also started using a Drone controller with these squads to include Drone Controllers with Marker Drones. This gives the Drones the Squads Relentless rule and allows for some mobile Markerlight support. It is expensive, but so is losing expensive marines to a Markerlight assisted alphastrike from a Helios Squad.