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Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?

EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 06:28:06


A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. 
   
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 kodos wrote:
TOW next year is tricky, we know it takes them ~3-4 years for a new model line (from design to release) with a pandemic between

I doubt that there will be a release without a starter set and going with 2 exiting model lines of old fantasy models won't be received well
not even talking about that it would have been not enough time to get the rules done and tested for all the factions

Another point is that releasing 2 Specialist Games in a row does not really fit their marketing model
there are 3 main games at the moment, HorusHeresy is now kind of the 4th and TOW would be the 5th
I rather expect another big LotR release timed with the new show that goes in between SG releases instead of 10th 40k (if GW gets the rights and want to invest into it)

10th Edition would be much easier and also less risky
One can just hope it is a soft reset and the new CSM book survives the edition change


Lotr just had its biggest release since the new edition, they just spread some of it out over months for reasons we don't know. I wouldn't expect a follow up on the scale of Defense of the north already next year.
   
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 Duskweaver wrote:
Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?

EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.
I preferred when it was four-year editions for WHFB and 40k, so every 2 years one of them would be getting an update. Seemed to work well. The release schedule seems so rushed these days, I can't be the only one who thinks GW releasing something literally every weekend is a bit much.

Probably IS good for sales though, unfortunately.

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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Duskweaver wrote:
Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?

EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.
I preferred when it was four-year editions for WHFB and 40k, so every 2 years one of them would be getting an update. Seemed to work well. The release schedule seems so rushed these days, I can't be the only one who thinks GW releasing something literally every weekend is a bit much.

Probably IS good for sales though, unfortunately.


Releasing something every weekend with the amount of Games GW has is not the problem I think.
It's more that they seem to think they have to release a book every week and don't leave time for an edition to breathe and develop. I don't think crusade will survive into 10th for example, instead it will be replaced by something similar yet different that's not compatible with Crusade because GW doesn't want to think things through. There were many good ideas in 8th edition CA books that never got properly worked out or refined and instead 9th made tabula rasa to all of these, introduced a worse point structure and killed of all of the existing much more interesting mission styles.
   
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 Duskweaver wrote:
Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?

EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.


It has never been formally declared by GW, but it seems pretty clear that they're trying to regularize their release schedules. E.g. the explicit quarterly roadmaps for Kill Team and Necromunda are good examples of this kind of thinking. The rapid pace at which they release codices is another signal that they are trying to move away from the languorous lengths of <8E editions.

From a business POV it makes sense. Edition launches are natural entry points for new customers and give old players an excuse to reinvest, both of which produce sales spikes. Knowing you have one of these every summer allows you to plan more effectively than having a fallow year in every three.

That said, I'm kind of skeptical that they'll be able to turn HH and OW into franchises on par with 40K and AoS. HH is cool, but unless they use this as an opportunity to make both First Born and Primaris viable in 40K, it seems like you're serving a niche audience of 1) fans of the books, 2) lore-focused players. There can be riches in niches, but it feels more Necromunda-scale than new edition 40K. OW obviously had a big fan base at one point, but it'll be nearly a decade on by the time it launches. Those players are getting longer in the tooth and a ranked mass battle game is a tough sell to cash strapped youths. GW is great at what it does, but elevating both of those franchises to "release year anchors" is a big bet.

I'm curious why they don't use the third year in the cycle to really blow out Kill Team, War Cry, and Necromunda. In any case, will be interesting to watch it all unfold!
   
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Duskweaver wrote:Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?
EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.

40k: 7th in 2014, 8th in 2017 and 9th in 2020
AoS: 1st 2015, 2nd 2018, 3rd 2021

while we have nothing official from GW (of course not, they don't want you to know of any release prior the pre-order announcement), there is a pattern here
not something made up but a conclusion based on the previous editions

Lord of the Rings follows a different pattern, with Rules for the movies followed by a new Rulebook after, with the One Rulebook in 2003/4, Battle of Pelennor Fields in 2018

so 2 main games have a 3 year cycle and the 3rd having a "whatever hollywood does" cycle, hence a 4th main game fits into the 3 year cycle and the chance is high that Horus Heresy will be that game

means 40k 10th in 2023, AoS 4th in 2024 and HH 3rd in 2025, Old World being a SG game doing their own to slowly build up the setting and rules, same as HH did until now, and LotR is doing its own cycle anyway

Sgt. Cortez wrote:Lotr just had its biggest release since the new edition, they just spread some of it out over months for reasons we don't know. I wouldn't expect a follow up on the scale of Defense of the north already next year.

in the past, with a new movie cycle we got a new starter box, question is will there be a new starter box with the Amazon Show or not and if there is one, will it feature models from the show or not

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
   
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Garrac wrote:
A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
Daemons don't have the Daemonkin keyword.

And the biggest model that's likely to have that is an Obliterator, which is better than any model from a Daemons' squad.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Garrac wrote:
A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
Daemons don't have the Daemonkin keyword.

And the biggest model that's likely to have that is an Obliterator, which is better than any model from a Daemons' squad.

Wasn't DAEMONKIN going to replace all DEMON keywords?

Ah, the source was the reddit post, and it's not exclusive to the MoP, it's a spell from the Malefic Discipline
   
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Garrac wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Garrac wrote:
A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
Daemons don't have the Daemonkin keyword.

And the biggest model that's likely to have that is an Obliterator, which is better than any model from a Daemons' squad.

Wasn't DAEMONKIN going to replace all DEMON keywords?

Ah, the source was the reddit post, and it's not exclusive to the MoP, it's a spell from the Malefic Discipline
Possibly? I haven't heard of that, but it might. I think that might only be for CSM Daemons, though. To crush synergies between it and the actual Daemons Codex.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Duskweaver wrote:
Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?

EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.
I preferred when it was four-year editions for WHFB and 40k, so every 2 years one of them would be getting an update. Seemed to work well. The release schedule seems so rushed these days, I can't be the only one who thinks GW releasing something literally every weekend is a bit much.

Probably IS good for sales though, unfortunately.


Releasing something every weekend with the amount of Games GW has is not the problem I think.
It's more that they seem to think they have to release a book every week and don't leave time for an edition to breathe and develop. I don't think crusade will survive into 10th for example, instead it will be replaced by something similar yet different that's not compatible with Crusade because GW doesn't want to think things through. There were many good ideas in 8th edition CA books that never got properly worked out or refined and instead 9th made tabula rasa to all of these, introduced a worse point structure and killed of all of the existing much more interesting mission styles.
I think you make a good point here.

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You mean like how Armageddon was released and then Necromunda was re-released? How much compatability did GW build in?

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Garrac wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Garrac wrote:
A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
Daemons don't have the Daemonkin keyword.

And the biggest model that's likely to have that is an Obliterator, which is better than any model from a Daemons' squad.

Wasn't DAEMONKIN going to replace all DEMON keywords?

Ah, the source was the reddit post, and it's not exclusive to the MoP, it's a spell from the Malefic Discipline

DAEMONKIN will replace DAEMON in the CSM book.
DAEMON will stay DAEMON in the Daemon book.
Or it will be GRIBBLYWIBBLY in the Daemon book and everyone (CSM, TS, DG and Daemons) will keep DAEMON as well, so at least Grey Knights can still kill DAEMONs with their special rules. (EDIT for clarity, all warlord traits, strategems and auras will work off GRIBBLYWIBBLY not DAEMON in the Daemon book).

But the rules writers have just about managed to figure out that being able to cross buff between codexes is bad for balance, it took them 4+ years but they did it, sort of. That is why TS have HERETIC ASTARTES and ARCANA ASTARTES, DG have HERETIC ASTARTEs and BUBOTIC ASTARTES and we expect CSM to have HERETIC ASTARTES and ANGRY ASTARTES.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:38:49


 
   
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A Daemon is a warp being, a Daemonkin is a regular creature possessed by a Daemon. A Daemon cannot, itself, be a Daemonkin.
   
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EightFoldPath wrote:
Garrac wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Garrac wrote:
A moment here. If I'm not mistaken, one of the leaked rules for the Master of Possesion was like "He can ressurrect a whole miniature with DAEMONKIN keyword in a squad". And we're suposed to believe that Demons of Chaos will be able to be 25% of your army. So, if the DAEMONKIN also affects the demons, wouldn't this let some crazy overpowered combination? Like, lol

(I don't remember where I saw the changed MoP rules)
Daemons don't have the Daemonkin keyword.

And the biggest model that's likely to have that is an Obliterator, which is better than any model from a Daemons' squad.

Wasn't DAEMONKIN going to replace all DEMON keywords?

Ah, the source was the reddit post, and it's not exclusive to the MoP, it's a spell from the Malefic Discipline

DAEMONKIN will replace DAEMON in the CSM book.
DAEMON will stay DAEMON in the Daemon book.
Or it will be GRIBBLYWIBBLY in the Daemon book and everyone (CSM, TS, DG and Daemons) will keep DAEMON as well, so at least Grey Knights can still kill DAEMONs with their special rules. (EDIT for clarity, all warlord traits, strategems and auras will work off GRIBBLYWIBBLY not DAEMON in the Daemon book).

But the rules writers have just about managed to figure out that being able to cross buff between codexes is bad for balance, it took them 4+ years but they did it, sort of. That is why TS have HERETIC ASTARTES and ARCANA ASTARTES, DG have HERETIC ASTARTEs and BUBOTIC ASTARTES and we expect CSM to have HERETIC ASTARTES and ANGRY ASTARTES.


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Apoplectic Astartes.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apoplectic Astartes.


EC (eventually) = HEDONIST ASTARTES

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 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apoplectic Astartes.


EC (eventually) = HEDONIST ASTARTES


Nah it's gotta be more trademarkable. "Hedonitist Astartes"
   
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RazorEdge wrote:
Is a "Hedonitist" a Doctor, specialized on hedonism?


C.G. Jung according to Freud.


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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It could also be a misapplication of the scary phrase "He dentist!". Showing the true cruelty of the model. I mean, give them a comfy chair and then viola, get them with the slowly spinning drill.
   
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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It could also be a misapplication of the scary phrase "He dentist!". Showing the true cruelty of the model. I mean, give them a comfy chair and then viola, get them with the slowly spinning drill.

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Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You mean like how Armageddon was released and then Necromunda was re-released? How much compatability did GW build in?

GW- "Armageddon what Armageddon? I didn't see a thing!"


Armageddon was a lazy affort to sell new terrain and old models with just using the old Necromunda rules (i.e. modified 2nd edition 40k rules) minus most of the campaign system. It's successor was the former edition of Kill Team, not the current Necromunda.
   
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other voices said that Armageddon was done because of a clash between 2 design teams as one got Necromunda, but the other one wanted it, so the made their own similar game with the main target of being close in rules but faster in release

yet still one of the better Kill Team games GW made (the one during 4th was better)

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 kodos wrote:
other voices said that Armageddon was done because of a clash between 2 design teams as one got Necromunda, but the other one wanted it, so the made their own similar game with the main target of being close in rules but faster in release


Doesn't make sense for me. So one design team took some outdated rules, left the fun aside (real campaign system) and called it a win? I'm very suspicious.

 kodos wrote:
yet still one of the better Kill Team games GW made (the one during 4th was better)


The one with Kill Team versus guards? Well, as one player had to be the dungeon master with lots of the same troops, it wasn't a great success. Fun, yes. But you usually don't go to a store or meeting with a bag full of Ork boyz, termagants etc. just to play the antagonist. Of course most people wanted to play the Kill Team.
   
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 Dryaktylus wrote:
 kodos wrote:
other voices said that Armageddon was done because of a clash between 2 design teams as one got Necromunda, but the other one wanted it, so the made their own similar game with the main target of being close in rules but faster in release


Doesn't make sense for me. So one design team took some outdated rules, left the fun aside (real campaign system) and called it a win? I'm very suspicious.
That does sound like something GW would do though, especially during Kirby era.

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I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Dryaktylus wrote:
 kodos wrote:
other voices said that Armageddon was done because of a clash between 2 design teams as one got Necromunda, but the other one wanted it, so the made their own similar game with the main target of being close in rules but faster in release


Doesn't make sense for me. So one design team took some outdated rules, left the fun aside (real campaign system) and called it a win? I'm very suspicious.
That does sound like something GW would do though, especially during Kirby era.
There's a "Boxed Game Division", and it appears that there's a lot of competition between them and other departments.

This is why Shadow War: Armageddon happened.

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 kodos wrote:
Duskweaver wrote:Isn't the "three-year cycle" a thing that was entirely made up by the online *cough* 'community'? Has anyone who actually works for GW ever said anything publically about them even having a long-term plan for new edition frequency?
EDIT: Four main games, all on three-year new edition cycles, seems like a really stupid business plan, to be honest.

40k: 7th in 2014, 8th in 2017 and 9th in 2020
AoS: 1st 2015, 2nd 2018, 3rd 2021

while we have nothing official from GW (of course not, they don't want you to know of any release prior the pre-order announcement), there is a pattern here
not something made up but a conclusion based on the previous editions

Lord of the Rings follows a different pattern, with Rules for the movies followed by a new Rulebook after, with the One Rulebook in 2003/4, Battle of Pelennor Fields in 2018

so 2 main games have a 3 year cycle and the 3rd having a "whatever hollywood does" cycle, hence a 4th main game fits into the 3 year cycle and the chance is high that Horus Heresy will be that game

means 40k 10th in 2023, AoS 4th in 2024 and HH 3rd in 2025, Old World being a SG game doing their own to slowly build up the setting and rules, same as HH did until now, and LotR is doing its own cycle anyway

Sgt. Cortez wrote:Lotr just had its biggest release since the new edition, they just spread some of it out over months for reasons we don't know. I wouldn't expect a follow up on the scale of Defense of the north already next year.

in the past, with a new movie cycle we got a new starter box, question is will there be a new starter box with the Amazon Show or not and if there is one, will it feature models from the show or not


HH is still a SG game, I don't know where people keep getting the idea that its not when its been made explicitly clear in multiple places. Likewise the leaks from the influencer event a couple weeks ago indicated that there s no plan for the game to get regular edition updates and the plan is to support the game in a manner similar to AT and Necromunda - i.e. regular "splatbook" type releases.

Doesn't make sense for me. So one design team took some outdated rules, left the fun aside (real campaign system) and called it a win? I'm very suspicious.


Yes. The publications team (responsible for doing one-off products and side games) wanted to re-release Necromunda. James Hewitt and the Specialist Games team got the permission to do it instead. The publications team then cooked up "Shadow War Armageddon" as totally-not-Necromunda and rushed to scoop specialist games by putting it out first with basically a lazy copy-paste of the old Necromunda rules updated for use with 40k miniature collections.

James has implied that the publications team (or rather one specific person on the team) had a difference of opinion of what Newcromunda should look like and hoped to sabotage the success of it by releasing Shadow War as a superior alternative that would contrast favorably vs James Necromunda design, and ultimately result in Necromunda flopping so that the publications team could take over running it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/18 00:44:20


CoALabaer wrote:
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I'm looking at the part where it says legionary squads can only take 1 heavy weapon and 1 special weapon each. Praying that's not the case, really really don't want that. I have 8 squads that are outfitted with double plasma guns, double flamers, double melta guns double heavy bolters and one squad double missile launchers. Now I gotta break their arms and backpacks off and give them different weapons, so fething frustrating.

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