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So, Im looking for a solid HQ unit for this force of Tau Im putting together/painting up and was curious if anyone has had any experience with Shadowsun Vs. a regular Shas'O (not Shas'El, which I know are supposed to be cheaper and more efficient points-wise with the TA upgrade.)

The points value is going to be 750pts, which I realize makes Shadowsun unavailable, but my buddy said I could if I wanted, so I thought I might.

Shadowsun has a pretty good statline, along with a ton of good wargear, and a lot of great saves, regular and invulnerable.

Vs. a Shas'O, which has a ton of options that Shadowsun doesnt.

I figured the cost for Shadowsun isnt too shabby for what she can do, but was curious if anyone can recommend a better way to go, like what kind of options work best for a generic Shas'O, or is Shadowsun really a great buy for the points?

Thanks!
T-

Well since you don't want the Shas'El (in my experience it is much better) I'd use the shas'o. Shadowsun has 2 melta guns which really limits her usefulness, only has a 12" firing range which puts her too close to melee then I care for.

Edit: Dakka Double Post error

Yeah, her load-out makes no sense, especially for her price. TL Meltaguns on a (I believe) BS 5 platform is a waste, since you're still only getting 1 roll. She has stealth armor, which is great at range, yet she is equiped with the closest ranged weapons in the armory. No, give her a pass.

Certainly not to nitpick or anything, but she gets two seperate Fusion Blasters and a Target lock, so in theory, could target 2 vehicles within range and BS5 gives a good chance to pop them both. I do agree about her stealth field though, maybe its just to help her get into that 12" FB range? Who can say....

What kind of loadouts work the best? I know PR/MP is hugely popular, but are there any "outside the box" weapon sets that have been successful?

Thanks!
T-

The loadout of a battlesuit always depends on who you are fighting.

I like all combinations of the MP, FB, and PR. All have there uses from heavy troops to range to tankbusting.

Missile Pods Plasma Rifle is usually the best combination though.

Shadowsun is generally never a good idea because for her price you could get about 3 suits with more guns available + wounds... so she is pretty much a waste of points.

EDIT: Deleted a mistake..

I've actually had success with AFP/CIB combo vs. horde armies.

Shadowsun has two FB's (not one TL) with special variation of Target lock which allows her to split fire. None of the "Target lock debate" is relevant to her.

If you take Shas'O with roughly similar configuration than Shadowsun (TL Fusion Blaster, two Shield Drones, Shield Generator, Bonding knife) you will end paying hefty 148 points. So Shadowsun costs more, in return of some abilities and wargear. So looked like that, Shadowsun looks like equivalent or better value, despite her limitations (lower T and W, no IC status). Whole different matter if you want to build a Shas'O like that.

Of course, regular suits are much better value for points, but OTOH, same is true for all Tau HQ choices...

Use her to hit one flank, while the stealth field makes it harder for the other flank to retaliate.

So lets just say I was fighting Orks, but in a friendly game, so I dont NEED to dominate and utterly crush my opponent necessarily. What kind of weapon set up would you all recommend?
I definitely see the usefulness of a AFP against the Orks, but what other suggestions can you make?

Thanks!
T-

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:So lets just say I was fighting Orks, but in a friendly game, so I dont NEED to dominate and utterly crush my opponent necessarily. What kind of weapon set up would you all recommend?
I definitely see the usefulness of a AFP against the Orks, but what other suggestions can you make?

Thanks!
T-

Against orks? AFP + CIB. 5 S3 AP 4 shots plus a large blast. This is my typical Shas'El I run with a shield drone, TA and HWMT. Runs about 115 points. Add stim injectors for good measure if you have the points available. JSJ gives you the ability to be close but not assault close. Against Tyranid hordes and Guardsmen it provides a good amount of shooting power. Add in that against T5 and T6 creatures you ignoring armor saves since the CIB is AP1 on all 6's to wound. You also have the ability to ignore a cover saves on anything hit with the large blast.

I think Im sold, unless anyone else has anything? lol

Thanks!
T-

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I think Im sold, unless anyone else has anything? lol

Thanks!
T-

Use an ethereal. Nothing beats your entire army running away on account of your armour-saveless HQ dying.

Nightwatch wrote:

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I think Im sold, unless anyone else has anything? lol

Thanks!
T-

Use an ethereal. Nothing beats your entire army running away on account of your armour-saveless HQ dying.

Your Shas'o or Shas'el is still required since it is a 1+ unit in the codex.

rogueeyes wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I think Im sold, unless anyone else has anything? lol

Thanks!
T-

Use an ethereal. Nothing beats your entire army running away on account of your armour-saveless HQ dying.

Your Shas'o or Shas'el is still required since it is a 1+ unit in the codex.

So take them both.

Just out of curiosity, why don't you want to take a Shas'el?

Im not opposed to taking a Shas'El over a Shas'O, I am aware of the points you can save by doing so, and you end up with the same HQ.
I figured on a Shas'O because you start at 75pts and once you add wargear and whatnot you'd end up at least close to Shadowsun's points, instead of a Shas'El who would end up far below the cost of Shadowsun.

What I could use a few ideas on, in addition to picking a good HQ for my in-the-works Cadre, is what might be an Orks of Assault on Black Reach Tau equivlent force?

Thats about where Id like to start, as far as points and a painting goal, just to get things going. Any ideas? I mean, Orks come with a PK Warboss, 5 unupgraded Nobs, 3 Rokkit Koptas and 20 Boyz, what might sound good for the Tau? I was thinking about using a Shas'El, maybe some like 3 Stealth Suits, a Crisis Suit, 6 or 12 Fire Warriors and then maybe 10 Kroot? Im not really sure about that or what weaponry on the Suits mentioned.

Help? haha.

(this isnt totally relavent to the original post, but would appreciate some input)

Thanks!
T-

the tau players i play with dont use her if eny special one it would be farsite

Shadowsun has one big benefit and one big weakness.

The benefit is projecting an 18" bubble from her Command Drone which lets you use her Leadership of 10 for morale tests.

Her big weakness is T3 - she's weaker than a Shas'El or Shas'O.

And her main benefit is only of use to non-mech armies - and there are ever fewer of those these days.

The seperate Fusion Blasters are pointless - because they have a threat range of 12" - which makes her only other benefit, the Stealth Field Generator, next to useless.

To be honest I almost always use a Shas'El with a Targetting Array and Plasma Rifle/Fusion Blaster.

For larger point values I'd chuck in Iridium Armour, Stim Injectors, 2x Shield Drones and possibly upgrade to the Shas'O for the extra Ld point, wound and WS.

Thanks everyone for their input. Ive been trying to put some kind of list together for around 750pts that had some kind of Crisis Shas'O or Shas'El, maybe an XV-8 or two, maybe some Stealth Suits, 1-2 Fire Warrior teams, Kroot w/ up to 6 Kroot Hounds, I have some Fusion Blaster armed Piranhas, Gun Drones, a Railgun armed Hammerhead, 3 Sniper Drone Teams.

Im just not overly familiar with Tau, and never seem to know where to start with them.

Thanks again!
T-

When I play matches with that sort of size I always have a kitted out Hammerhead w/Railguun, one of each minimal squad of Fire Warriors and Kroot, a cheap Shas'El commander (Fireknife is nice, Plasma Rifle and Missile Pod) and then buy a few basic suits (T/L missile pod or Fusion Blaster are nice buys) and fill out the points with some other fun choices.

Tau are damn good at 750pts and lower - you'll have a blast.

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:Thanks everyone for their input. Ive been trying to put some kind of list together for around 750pts that had some kind of Crisis Shas'O or Shas'El, maybe an XV-8 or two, maybe some Stealth Suits, 1-2 Fire Warrior teams, Kroot w/ up to 6 Kroot Hounds, I have some Fusion Blaster armed Piranhas, Gun Drones, a Railgun armed Hammerhead, 3 Sniper Drone Teams.

Im just not overly familiar with Tau, and never seem to know where to start with them.

Thanks again!
T-

If your having trouble figuring out what HQ to take try this.

Shas'el Commander
- Plasma rifle
- Missilepod
- Multi-tracker

It's cheap, versatile, and lets face it, HQ suits don't bring much to the table. The only real use you get out of a commander is the increase BS and wounds and you pay quite a premium for these small upgrades. Keep the HQ suits cheap and spend your points elsewhere.

I see a lot of people using 6 man Fire Warrior teams, is this advisable, or for 750pts is it just better to opt for the full strength squad?

I was thinking I might end up fighting Orks, so thought Id go with the AFP/CIB on a Shas'El with TA and HW MultiTracker for HQ.

I actually finished painting my 6th Fire Warrior last night, so Id be able to field them fully painted. Id really like to include some Kroot with Kroot Hounds too, Ive got about 10 or 12 Kroot and 6 Hounds. I figured 3 Stealth Suits and a pair or so of XV-8's would be in order too, maybe Death Rains? they seem pretty versatile.

As far as Death Rains go, is it better to Twin Link the Missle Pods instead of just having two Missle Pods and more shots with the TA?

I am looking forward to basing (NOT on a crappy clear flying stand) a pair of Fusion Blaster armed Piranhas.

I have a Railgun Hammerhead, but thought maybe about fielding 3 Sniper Drone teams, though.....the submunition blast could be awesome against Orks.....Does that scatter like the Ordnance now or is it just a direct shot with template placement?

Thanks all!
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
aaaaaaaaaaaannyone? haha!

Thanks!
T-

Im also feeling a little hesitant about running a AFP and CIB on my Shas'O or Shas'El. Was this a bad choice? I mean, anti-horde it seems awesome, but I guess Im just not really sure about it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
T-

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I see a lot of people using 6 man Fire Warrior teams, is this advisable, or for 750pts is it just better to opt for the full strength squad?

I was thinking I might end up fighting Orks, so thought Id go with the AFP/CIB on a Shas'El with TA and HW MultiTracker for HQ.

I actually finished painting my 6th Fire Warrior last night, so Id be able to field them fully painted. Id really like to include some Kroot with Kroot Hounds too, Ive got about 10 or 12 Kroot and 6 Hounds. I figured 3 Stealth Suits and a pair or so of XV-8's would be in order too, maybe Death Rains? they seem pretty versatile.

As far as Death Rains go, is it better to Twin Link the Missle Pods instead of just having two Missle Pods and more shots with the TA?

I am looking forward to basing (NOT on a crappy clear flying stand) a pair of Fusion Blaster armed Piranhas.

I have a Railgun Hammerhead, but thought maybe about fielding 3 Sniper Drone teams, though.....the submunition blast could be awesome against Orks.....Does that scatter like the Ordnance now or is it just a direct shot with template placement?

Thanks all!
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
aaaaaaaaaaaannyone? haha!

Thanks!
T-

With 6-man FW teams you will have more points to spend on killy stuff, but it will be pretty easy for your opponent to get rid of your Troops in an objectives game.

Against Orks the CiB/AFP combo will be a real killer, but against MEQ it won't do much. Missile Pod / Plasma Rifle is more versatile in that regard.

Trust me, Deathrains is everything but versatile. They do one thing well, and that is destroying light/medium vehicles. Also, to field two separate pods is never an option. As soon as you take 2, they become twin-linked wether you like it or not. That being said, I like myself a 2-man Deathrain team with TLMP and TA, they will be very reliable when it comes to wrecking transports, especially those trukks if you're up against orks.

Against Orks, and everyone else, the Railgun armed Hammerhead is superior to sniper drone teams.

Hope that helped .

Shadowsun looks alright

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:Certainly not to nitpick or anything, but she gets two seperate Fusion Blasters and a Target lock, so in theory, could target 2 vehicles within range and BS5 gives a good chance to pop them both. I do agree about her stealth field though, maybe its just to help her get into that 12" FB range? Who can say....

What kind of loadouts work the best? I know PR/MP is hugely popular, but are there any "outside the box" weapon sets that have been successful?

Thanks!
T-

The tried-and-true shas'el is what I would reccomend, Shas'o is fine if you want, but the upgrade typically isn't worth it and in 750 points you should save points wherever you can. I usually run PR/MP on most of my suits, it gives you an autocannon that is mobile, and a low AP gun to pack a punch. If you're looking for something a little less traditional you could use Plasma/Flamer. Its an odd combination, but its suprisingly effective, especially if you run a TL flamer. Just be careful of getting that close to melee oriented infantry, you still aren't tough in melee. In my experience its too annoying to try to dance around and get the flamer into range without getting obliterated in melee, but if you want to give it a shot go for it.

Here's a typical list i would run in 750.

Shas'el
BC/MP/TA
HWMT/DC/1shield drone
100 points

Crisis team
2xregular with BC/MP/MT
regular with BC/PR/MT
158(math might be a little off there, did it in my head)

Fire Warrior Squad 9 man shas'ui w/BK 105 (rifles or carbines, up to you)
Devilfish SMS/TA/MT/DP 160
Kroot Squad 10 man 70
Hammerhead RG/DP/MT/BC/TL
750

Just join the crisis commander to the team and go to town with the two vehicles in tow and outflanking kroot to suprise objective holders

in 750 points you don't really need many plasma rifles, most SM armies are only going to have 10-20 TACs at this level, maybe 30 if they don't run much else.

If you wanted to try out a crisis suit spam list you could try this


Shas'el
TL MP/TL
73

Crisis Team
3x regulars with TLMP/ TA
/ TL
/ DC 1 shield drone
(to keep the models different for wound allocation, and a drone to soak up missiles)
159
run 3 of these teams, attach the commander to one of them

Total Point so far=550
Fire Warrior Squad 10 man 100
Fire Warrior Squad 10 man 100
750

This is more of a stand and shoot army, you've got 10 autocannons and 20 pulse rifles, you can get 40 shots off at 30", should be enough to destroy anything at 750. A bit lacking in the anti-heavy armor, you might want to consider changing one of the crisis teams to this

3xregulars with MP/FB/MT
162 points, you'll have to drop 3 points somewhere.

Theres a squad that can deepstrike in, blast the crap out of something with missiles and fusions, possibly at rear armor if they are far enough from an edge to not risk it. then join the fight with missile fire like the other suits. If someone brings AV 14(guard or is an ass and brings a land raider at this points value.) you can't touch it with 7s from the front(or all around if your opponent is an ass)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I figured 3 Stealth Suits and a pair or so of XV-8's would be in order too, maybe Death Rains? they seem pretty versatile.

As far as Death Rains go, is it better to Twin Link the Missle Pods instead of just having two Missle Pods and more shots with the TA?

I am looking forward to basing (NOT on a crappy clear flying stand) a pair of Fusion Blaster armed Piranhas.

I have a Railgun Hammerhead, but thought maybe about fielding 3 Sniper Drone teams, though.....the submunition blast could be awesome against Orks.....Does that scatter like the Ordnance now or is it just a direct shot with template placement?

T-

as an afterthought i saw this post, several things.
Stealthsuits are great at taking out infantry, not as great at anti vehicle.

Deathrains are great at anti light-med infantry and light-med vehicles, the above list uses 10 of them but its just for funsies, it prolly won't perform greatly.

Also note that you can't run 2 missle pods on one suit, only a single one or a TL one.

Piranha can be fun, I have 2 right now and I'm considering a third. The only problem is that in KP games, the drone squad counts and a KP, so if you only run 1-2 in a squad you have an easily killable 2-4 man drone squad.

Railgun Hammerhead is amazing. I always run 2 in 1k+ points, and I always run 1 in even 500 points. Run them with Burst Cannons, Multi Tracker, Target Lock, and Disruption pods. If you can spare the points, flechette dischargers are nice against orks.

You can move 12 and fire the railgun, 6 or stationary and fire the railgun and 2 burst cannons, all at different targets. Its a great support weapon for your crisis suits and infantry. You can pop vehicles while raining 6 more pulse shots into whatever your fire warriors are going after. or you can focus fire on Ork mobs with the submunitions and burst cannons. It scatters like normal, roll scatter die, goes 2d6-4" in the direction of the arrow if you miss.

Sniper drones suck, plain and simple. You're paying 80 points for a 4 MODEL SQUAD with 3T and 4+ armor. If one dies, you test leader ship on their wonderful ld7. If you get unlucky and the spotter happens to die and the drones live, then they all die. if you want rail rifles, pathfinders are a way better choice, you get markerlights and you still have target locks on the rail rifles. Plus, sniper drones take up a FoC spot that a hammerhead or broadsides could take.