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fought marines recently, and they failed a morale check in cc after my termies won round, and the marines fell back 7 inches.

i then rolled for sweping advance and won, and went back into combat with them, and they took fearless wounds.

my questions are this: did i have to perform a sweeping advance, or can i decide not to?i had other units nearby that would have been within 6", to deny a regroup.

Also, if i do catch up with marines after performing sweeping advance, aren't i within 6 so they cant regroup?

I didn't think terminators could sweeping advance?

Well, right off the bat, Terminators can't Sweeping Advance. Their armor is too combersome, but more importantly the rules for Terminator armor specifically say they can't.

Anyway, yes, you are always forced to make a Sweeping Advance. If you fail to Sweep them, and can stay within 6" of them, then they'll continue to be unable to regroup and fall-back off the board.

apollochaos wrote:fought marines recently, and they failed a morale check in cc after my termies won round, and the marines fell back 7 inches.

i then rolled for sweping advance and won, and went back into combat with them, and they took fearless wounds.

A couple of problems there...

Terminators can't perform a Sweeping Advance.

And the Sweep is performed before the models fall back. When the unit fails its morale test, you make the Sweeping Advance roll. If the winner of the combat wins the SA roll, the unit is destroyed (or in the case of Marines with ATSKNF, automatically rallies). If the Falling Back unit wins, they then fall back.

(Note: this is different from the WHFB system, or the old 40K system, where Sweep was an Intiative test, followed by a distance roll which was compared to the Falling Back unit's fall back movement, and the units actually moved as a part of the Sweeping Advance)

my questions are this: did i have to perform a sweeping advance, or can i decide not to?i had other units nearby that would have been within 6", to deny a regroup.

If your unit is capable of performing a Sweep, you have to do so. It is not optional.

Also, if i do catch up with marines after performing sweeping advance, aren't i within 6 so they cant regroup?

If you catch up with them, it's because they didn't move anywhere, and so are still in combat.

If another unit catches them while they are falling back, they automatically rally.

Yeah Terminators can't sweeping advance. ATSKNF allows you to auto rally but the restriction of being more than 6" from an enemy still applies. So yes you shouldn't have actually sweeping advaqnced and they would have had to fallback in their next movement phase and continued to do so until they were either off the table or no longer within 6" of an enemy model.

Sure thing - i meant Termigaunts, not Terminators :p

apollochaos wrote:Sure thing - i meant Termigaunts, not Terminators :p

This changes everyone's perspective!
You had to sweeping advance, or at least roll the die to try!

Yeah you had to sweeping advance and he would take the fearless saves. The models would however remain stationary.

So when they auto rallied from the succesfull sweeping advance would they actually take the extra "fearless" wounds? I thought that was only if they are fearless and don't take the morale check.

Yes they take No Retreat! - they "become" fearless.

So when they auto rallied from the succesfull sweeping advance would they actually take the extra "fearless" wounds? I thought that was only if they are fearless and don't take the morale check.

Well it is no longer just fearless but any rule that allows you to automatically pass you CC morale check. It also specifically states in the ATSKNF rules that you take the fearless wounds if you are caught in a sweeping advance.

Insaniak, he meant catch up to them as literally just getting close to them, not assaulting them. If you assault them, they retaliate and auto-rally, but if you just jog along side them they'll continue to be broken.

Interestingly enough, if you can put a Rhino or something between them and the board edge so that they split they'll be unable to regroup. Because they split, but must fall directly back, they're unable to move back into coherency (save further impassable terrain shinanigans). Not even ATSKNF can save them at that point.

FlingitNow wrote:

So when they auto rallied from the succesfull sweeping advance would they actually take the extra "fearless" wounds? I thought that was only if they are fearless and don't take the morale check.

Well it is no longer just fearless but any rule that allows you to automatically pass you CC morale check. It also specifically states in the ATSKNF rules that you take the fearless wounds if you are caught in a sweeping advance.

Ah. Either I have a horrible memory or atrocious reading comprehension. Thank you.

edit:

DarkHound wrote:Interestingly enough, if you can put a Rhino or something between them and the board edge so that they split they'll be unable to regroup. Because they split, but must fall directly back, they're unable to move back into coherency (save further impassable terrain shinanigans). Not even ATSKNF can save them at that point.

But at that point you might as well just play a game of chess for all the setup required in that.

Or, even easier, just break them and keep a vehicle within 6" as the fall off the board.

It doesn't take THAT much set up. A great example is my Possessed against Banshees. The Possessed have Power Weapons, and the Rhino is about 7" away from the Banshees (my Predator asploded their ride). At I4 vs 5, I probably won't be able to Sweep them, so I dropped out the Possessed and moved the Rhino out behind them. The Possessed engage the Banshees, broke them, failed to Sweep and they got split by my Rhino.

Now I don't have to chase the Banshees down, and as a bonus, the Possessed were able to Consolidate behind the Rhino utterly blocking LoS for the Eldar's return fire.

There is a difference between fearless and ATSKNF rule. Space Marines take extra wonds when they are caught (using a sweeping advance). Fearless unit take the wounds as soon as it is know that they have lost close combat.
Subtle difference but one that is often forgotten.

ceorron wrote:There is a difference between fearless and ATSKNF rule. Space Marines take extra wonds when they are caught (using a sweeping advance). Fearless unit take the wounds as soon as it is know that they have lost close combat.
Subtle difference but one that is often forgotten.

A destinction that unfortunately gets overlooked when playing BT.

DarkHound wrote:It doesn't take THAT much set up. A great example is my Possessed against Banshees. The Possessed have Power Weapons, and the Rhino is about 7" away from the Banshees (my Predator asploded their ride). At I4 vs 5, I probably won't be able to Sweep them, so I dropped out the Possessed and moved the Rhino out behind them. The Possessed engage the Banshees, broke them, failed to Sweep and they got split by my Rhino.

Now I don't have to chase the Banshees down, and as a bonus, the Possessed were able to Consolidate behind the Rhino utterly blocking LoS for the Eldar's return fire.

One second here. So you put the Rhino behind them and you need your opponent to remove the models in the center of the combat, rather from one side so the Rhino would split them in half, knowing that if he does this anyway, he will never regroup for being out of coherency...Regardless, when they broke, and fell back if even one model is in a line block by the transport it falls under the auspices of 'Trapped!' on page 45

"Sometimes a unit will find its fall back move blocked by impassible terrain, friendly models or enemy models...the models in this unit may move around these obstructions in such a way to get back into coherency"

So if you block the fall back move of even one model, he can move in coherency around the obstacle...although it is likely he will run again next turn from you being within 6" of him. This seems like it would require a really dumb opponent that manages to make the perfect set of mistakes to work and in cases when it would work, the unit is already out of coherency anyways...

zeshin wrote:

ceorron wrote:There is a difference between fearless and ATSKNF rule. Space Marines take extra wonds when they are caught (using a sweeping advance). Fearless unit take the wounds as soon as it is know that they have lost close combat.
Subtle difference but one that is often forgotten.

A destinction that unfortunately gets overlooked when playing BT.

True indeed. But who really cares when you're throwing a horde of 3+ super fast marines in your enemy's face?