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I've never really understood all the AR-15 hype out there. But I got to spend the day playing around with the M4 today and I admit it was quite a bit of fun to shoot.

So I might just end up getting an AR somewhere down the road after all.

They're fun and have a near infinite variety of Lego-like accessories, and, barring the T-handle and lefties, are rather ergonomic to shoot.

Now's the perfect time to get one, good ones can be had at prices as low as they'll ever be as a result of election hype fears collapsing demand when supply was at an all time high, same for accessories and mags.

Ruger AR556's can be had has cheap as $470...

Oh that is cheap.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around that, never thought I'd see AR's from big names that cheap

Now is the time to buy for sure in general. The Beretta ARX I just picked up was a $1700 gun 8 months ago...I picked it up for $1100 a month ago.

I'm kinda jell that you Americans can own guns without having to explain yourself to the police or running the risk of jail time.

 Frazzled wrote:
Oh that is cheap.

Any decent ones that shoot 9mm? I don't really feel like a new caliber and these an easy beast to feed. Alternatively what would you need to convert a normal 5.56 M4 into a 9mm (and obviously be able to change back)?

Future War Cultist wrote:I'm kinda jell that you Americans can own guns without having to explain yourself to the police or running the risk of jail time.

Frazzled wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Oh that is cheap.

Any decent ones that shoot 9mm? I don't really feel like a new caliber and these an easy beast to feed. Alternatively what would you need to convert a normal 5.56 M4 into a 9mm (and obviously be able to change back)?

9mm AR's are somewhat weird, ostensibly all you need is an upper, but there's no real standard, and lots of them have had lots of issues, particularly with fcg pin breakage (blowback pressure impacting the hammer) and mag issues. I've heard the best things about Quarter Circle 10, but much beyond that I'm not sure. There are definitely good ones out there, but there's a bit more to be aware of with them too.

Chris Bartocci (former Colt technical specialist) on YouTube has some excellent vids on 9mm AR's and their history and what to look for.

 Frazzled wrote:
Any decent ones that shoot 9mm? I don't really feel like a new caliber and these an easy beast to feed. Alternatively what would you need to convert a normal 5.56 M4 into a 9mm (and obviously be able to change back)?

The real problem with this is a 9mm upper only is around $350-400. At that point you're better off just buying a regular AR15.

.223 is really cheap right now and while no one can predict the future I think it's going to be that way for a few years. This is probably the best possible time to get in.

Alternately, you can get a M&P 15-22 for about $450 and have the same form factor and accessory options.

 d-usa wrote:
I've never really understood all the AR-15 hype out there. But I got to spend the day playing around with the M4 today and I admit it was quite a bit of fun to shoot.

So I might just end up getting an AR somewhere down the road after all.

I love mine, and they are a lot of fun.

A couple weekends ago my daughter had a friend over, and one of the things we did was shoot a bit. Had a 'regular' .22 and our M4 style .22. After ensuring the kids had safety basics down with the 'regular' rifle, they each burnt through about 3 mags on the M4 style, and LOVED it.

Pics from the event below:

Man my childhood was way more boring

Thats pretty rad.

We also went kayaking on the river that is a border to our property and rode some of our horses that day.

Finished up with a cook out and a bonfire (made s'mores!).

Fun day.

"Dad of the Decade" award incoming for CptJake

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm kinda jell that you Americans can own guns without having to explain yourself to the police or running the risk of jail time.

I wish I could buy run-of-the-mill cold medication without having to show my ID. We all have to put up with different sets of nonsense.


That sounds like a really fun outing, CptJake!


For a long time I liked rapid-fire plinking of cans and reactive targets with semi-auto firearms, but I couldn't afford to do it very often. Now that I'm older and have money for ammo I find myself more and more drawn to single-shot rifles and trying to shoot the smallest groups I can.

We had some metal spinners and other reactive targets that day too. Those are always fun and the kids did enjoy shooting them too.

 CptJake wrote:
We also went kayaking on the river that is a border to our property and rode some of our horses that day.

Finished up with a cook out and a bonfire (made s'mores!).

Fun day.

Sounds like a day of days

 Frazzled wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
We also went kayaking on the river that is a border to our property and rode some of our horses that day.

Finished up with a cook out and a bonfire (made s'mores!).

Fun day.

Sounds like a day of days

The boy is the son of a good friend of my wife. They are stationed up in the DC area and the kid was down here visiting his grand parents for Spring Break.

The BEST part of the day was hosting the grand parents for the cook out. The grand father puts 'the world's most interesting man' to shame. He was a soldier fighting Castro's guerrillas in Cuba, escaped when they lost. Made it to the US via Mexico. Went back for the Bay of Pigs, got captured and spent a couple years in a Cuban prison, got released and came back to the US and joined our Army. Did multiple tours in Vietnam, El Salvador, and other places, and had some fantastic stories. We have been many of the same places he had, just several years later. He and his wife (also from Cuba) are just wonderful, kind, patriotic folks.

And he like to shoot too! Hoping to have him over in the near future to pop some caps!

 CptJake wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I've never really understood all the AR-15 hype out there. But I got to spend the day playing around with the M4 today and I admit it was quite a bit of fun to shoot.

So I might just end up getting an AR somewhere down the road after all.

I love mine, and they are a lot of fun.

A couple weekends ago my daughter had a friend over, and one of the things we did was shoot a bit. Had a 'regular' .22 and our M4 style .22. After ensuring the kids had safety basics down with the 'regular' rifle, they each burnt through about 3 mags on the M4 style, and LOVED it.

Pics from the event below:

Spoiler:

Daughter spotting for a friend:



Making some minor adjustments:



Kids with the fruit of their labors:

That is AWESOME Cap! I like to teach kids firearm safety whenever I can. The thing is to keep it fun and safe. The best way to keep a healthy 2A environment is to teach the next generation how to safely and responsibly use a firearm. The worst is when we keep the guns hidden or don't teach them the proper handling of firearms: thats when accidents happen.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CptJake wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
We also went kayaking on the river that is a border to our property and rode some of our horses that day.

Finished up with a cook out and a bonfire (made s'mores!).

Fun day.

Sounds like a day of days

The boy is the son of a good friend of my wife. They are stationed up in the DC area and the kid was down here visiting his grand parents for Spring Break.

The BEST part of the day was hosting the grand parents for the cook out. The grand father puts 'the world's most interesting man' to shame. He was a soldier fighting Castro's guerrillas in Cuba, escaped when they lost. Made it to the US via Mexico. Went back for the Bay of Pigs, got captured and spent a couple years in a Cuban prison, got released and came back to the US and joined our Army. Did multiple tours in Vietnam, El Salvador, and other places, and had some fantastic stories. We have been many of the same places he had, just several years later. He and his wife (also from Cuba) are just wonderful, kind, patriotic folks.

And he like to shoot too! Hoping to have him over in the near future to pop some caps!

Now THAT sounds like a plan and a half.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Any decent ones that shoot 9mm? I don't really feel like a new caliber and these an easy beast to feed. Alternatively what would you need to convert a normal 5.56 M4 into a 9mm (and obviously be able to change back)?

The real problem with this is a 9mm upper only is around $350-400. At that point you're better off just buying a regular AR15.

.223 is really cheap right now and while no one can predict the future I think it's going to be that way for a few years. This is probably the best possible time to get in.

Alternately, you can get a M&P 15-22 for about $450 and have the same form factor and accessory options.

Frazzled could also get into reloading, which makes 223 pretty darn cheap to shoot

OR, he could get into a Just Right Carbine in 9MM, or even cheaper still a HiPoint carbine in 9MM. HiPoint's are the modern day equivalent of the Saturday Night Special, but their carbines are surprisingly well built.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around that, never thought I'd see AR's from big names that cheap

Now is the time to buy for sure in general. The Beretta ARX I just picked up was a $1700 gun 8 months ago...I picked it up for $1100 a month ago.

Saw a 16" 1/7 Melonited barrel for $75 last week. The Salad Days are upon us!

Damn M4 qualification today. Practice round: 29/30 shots in the 5 ring. Pre-qualification: 29/30 shots in the 5 ring. Qualification round: 24/30 in the 5 ring. At least all my rounds went on the target.

 d-usa wrote:
. At least all my rounds went on the target.

That's always a plus

What does it take to qualify?

Something stupid like 17 out of 30 hitting the target area.

What are you 'qualifying' for? Job?

What distance are you shooting at?

What type/size target?

Is the firing timed?

 CptJake wrote:
What are you 'qualifying' for? Job?

What distance are you shooting at?

What type/size target?

Is the firing timed?

US Postal Service.

 Frazzled wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
What are you 'qualifying' for? Job?

What distance are you shooting at?

What type/size target?

Is the firing timed?

US Postal Service.

Po po (especially city) are notorious for lax shooting requirements. Some of them aren't shooters and have terrible trigger discipline. Granted the job requires more than knowing how to shoot, but carrying a gun is a commitment, no matter who you are.

So D, how may meters to target and what positions? My wife shot like that at 100 meters against a torso silhouette first time out, but I got her to center of mass before the day was done with both AR carbine and pistol.

Not to derail this thread, or bash members of law enforcement, but a while back I was reading an article that many police departments now have a required IQ range for applicants. Too smart or too dumb and you can't be a cop.

One city's target IQ range was 85 to 110. I mean.... 85 is literally half-way to mentally handicapped.

I was qualifying at 50 yards, standing up using the plain iron sights on the Transtar III targets. To qualify we needed 17 hits anywhere on the blue out of 30 shots. I ended up with all 30 shots on the blue, and 24 inside the center 5 ring.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the score, considering I only had 2 hours of practice and only 60 shots of practice prior to qualifying. I'm just pissed because I got 29 shots in the center during both practice attempts.

I'm qualifying for my job with the Bureau of Prisons. Spending a few weeks in Georgia at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center there.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Not to derail this thread, or bash members of law enforcement, but a while back I was reading an article that many police departments now have a required IQ range for applicants. Too smart or too dumb and you can't be a cop.

One city's target IQ range was 85 to 110. I mean.... 85 is literally half-way to mentally handicapped.

aye, while its not a universal thing, some departments did turn away applicants judged "too smart". A federal court ruled it allowable IIRC in 2000. Not sure if that is still current practice anywhere or not.

I've had sort of the same thing happen with a Masters degree ("you're overqualified, go away", "my rent statement *reaaaaally* does not care if I'm overqualified on paper, I wouldn't have applied if I didnt want the job...")

More worryingly is the shooting requirements, as earlier noted. The NYPD apparently can miss like 12 shots off target out of 50 at 7 yards and qualify...

On top of that the NYPD custom orders their Glocks with 12lb triggers to match their old double action revolvers from 30+ years ago so they dont have to change their training...and then they wonder why the NYPD has issues putting rounds on target

Shooting qualification is pretty lax for many agencies. And I think for quite a few people the annual qualification may be the only time they shoot at all. Our 9mm qualifying was 21 out of 30 hits at 7 yards, with out course of fire consisting of a variety of different shooting scenarios (things like "from holster, fire 3 shots in 4 seconds, fire 3 shots - emergency reload - 3 shots in 10 seconds, and a couple other things). I've done plenty of handgun shooting before, so that wasn't much of a problem and I managed to get all 30 shots on target and scored 145 out of 150 points.

so the shooting requirements for a Texas CHL are higher than NYPD. That figures.

 d-usa wrote:
I was qualifying at 50 yards, standing up using the plain iron sights on the Transtar III targets. To qualify we needed 17 hits anywhere on the blue out of 30 shots. I ended up with all 30 shots on the blue, and 24 inside the center 5 ring.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the score, considering I only had 2 hours of practice and only 60 shots of practice prior to qualifying. I'm just pissed because I got 29 shots in the center during both practice attempts.

I'm qualifying for my job with the Bureau of Prisons. Spending a few weeks in Georgia at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center there.

Glenco?