Daemon Primarch Magnus/Wrath of Magnus/Traitor Legions Codex Supplement/Thousand Sons

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**Roknar**

Hmm, does anybody know if the black Legion formations are only available for black legion? Seeing as they no longer have the black legion formation restriction from the supplement.

**lord_blackfang**

I dunno, maybe people are just excited to play their army at a respectable power level and not looking for horsegak combo cancer of the week.

**Captyn_Bob**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

2 special weapons in 5 man is pretty good.

**Roknar**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

2 special weapons in 5 man is pretty good.

Well, in a purge detachment you can get your two now awesome termi units as troops and then fill them heavy slots with 4 special havocs. No need for either plague marines or normal marines, plus you get better flamers to boot.

**Red Corsair**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

2 special weapons in 5 man is pretty good.

People often overlook the fact plague marines come stock with a bolt pistol, bolt gun AND plague knife which is poison 4+ and provides them with an extra melee attacks. Normally you pay an extra point for a normal bonus attack. Then they have blight grenades ie defensive grenades. Honestly, when you look at the benefits noise marines and plague marines get to gear etc. You are better off fielding the cult version rather then the CSM marked version unless you really need a heavy weapon.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

You get the special weapons for cheaper in the long run. A bigger foot print makes small blasts better against the larger squad too, but those are lame so that's a non-advantage I guess.

But yeah, cheaper in the long run. Plague Marines are still more efficient.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said at least you won't be punished for using the regular Marine.

**Red Corsair**

Man the night lord relics look amazing and cheap on demon princes. The stormbolt plate in particular, just 20 points to have a DP with a 2+ armor save and +1 to cover, if the DP's get the legion tactics benefit as well he would have stealth too. That relic is cheaper then the power armor for a normal DP lol.

Night haunters talons is another great one on a DP, 20 pts again but you get +d3 attacks, +d6 on the charge as well as shred.

Honestly a lot of the relics look much better when you factor in a DP wielding them.

**Gearwar**

Soo bikers with MoN seems fun!
I want them!

**Sersi**

Red Corsair wrote:
I can't figure out why everyone ITT is going nuts over the EC stuff. I literally just finished an 1850 army for a November tournament and have been practicing with them since May and I think many haven't bothered reading the book in quite some time. The sonic blasters are bad, period, mechanically they coulf be S6 all the time and they still wouldn't work on people that actually can grasp the game. +3PPM is simply not worth it and the Icon of excess is +30PTS! So your never putting it in a 5 man squad which is the only cost effective way to run them.

I ran 4 units of Noise marines at 5 man size with a blast master only in a rhino with a dirge caster, that comes to 150 per unit, that's 600pts for 4 troop units min sized. If you add an icon that unit jumps to 180, thats 120 points more meaning my list would have to drop the mauler fiend and a fricken melta bomb. The combat drug is cute, but noise marines aren't getting into combat, not in this edition anyway, maybe in 8th. So really all we got were some powers, some cute relics (none are worth the price IMHO) and 6+ FNP. Now, the marines with added mark are nice but in this instance they are only saving you 2ppm over noise marines who have access to the all important ignores cover blast master and doom siren.

For me the clear winner is death guard by a country friggen mile. Plague marine were already the most cost effective troop in the book able to take 2 specials and a combi per 5. Now, the bikes, raptors, termies and oblits just became major players by getting 5+ FNP, fearless and relentless makes havocs in rhinos or walking out from LOSB terrain pretty hilarious. I mean a nurgle biker is now t6 fnp 5+ and fearless for nothing more then it was a day ago. By comparison an EC bike squad needs, NEEDS a 30pt icon meaning you can't just run 3 efficiently and is only T5 compared to 6.

Sonic Blasters are definitely broken, and your right nothing here fixes that problem. They just could copy the FW Kakophoni and give EC Relentless instead. The way to play the formation is 3 MSU squads with only a Blastmaster camping a backfield objective at 125 per unit. In that case the FNP 6+ is a negligible bonus as are combat drugs. Since its not worth the cost of 6 units for 780 pt; and the Blaster master far outrages their bolters. You'll won't get to use the +1S or the Splitfire bonuses, although Shred is still nice. Your right NM in Rhinos will never make combat and do nothing a 9 pt Daemonette doesn't do way better.

EC bikes were the only good place to take the icon and with good with T5/FNP 5+ so the +1 FNP bonus is just gravy. Just run 5 with a biker lord and a cheap Grand Cavalcade. Basically EC is the same as before having to heavily lean on the Chaos Daemon codex for bodies and assault power.

**Red Corsair**

Gearwar wrote:
Soo bikers with MoN seems fun!
I want them!

Yea they were good before and just got VotLW, Fearless, and FNP for nothing lol

**mrhappyface**

Red Corsair wrote:
Man the night lord relics look amazing and cheap on demon princes. The stormbolt plate in particular, just 20 points to have a DP with a 2+ armor save and +1 to cover, if the DP's get the legion tactics benefit as well he would have stealth too. That relic is cheaper then the power armor for a normal DP lol.

Make that DP Tzeentch for re-rollable 2+ armour/jink save?

**Vailex**

lord_blackfang wrote:
buddha wrote:
Im also really appreciating they did away with the silly rule requiring a CSM sorc to generate half their rules from their god.

Let me explain that thing.

The rule existed because the lores only had 3 spells each, so a ML3 psyker could be 100% sure he would have all the spells, and GW's current design paradigm is that you are not allowed to be sure which powers you will have, Primaris aside.

Now that the lores have been updated to the full 6 spells each, there is no reason for the limitation and it was lifted.

Do they still have to take 1 power from their god. Not sure when they changed this....

So if I have at ML3 TS sorcerer with MoT I can roll all 3 powers on Telepathy? Because of my mark do I get the primaris from the Discipline of Tzeentch still?

**Red Corsair**

mrhappyface wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Man the night lord relics look amazing and cheap on demon princes. The stormbolt plate in particular, just 20 points to have a DP with a 2+ armor save and +1 to cover, if the DP's get the legion tactics benefit as well he would have stealth too. That relic is cheaper then the power armor for a normal DP lol.

Make that DP Tzeentch for re-rollable 2+ armour/jink save?

Exactly, I actually think each legion is viable though sadly IW got the shorter end of the stick. I was hoping unit leaders could purchase servo arms and I personally would have like havocs for troops more then oblits/ mutilators for fluff reasons.

**whembly**

Red Corsair wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Man the night lord relics look amazing and cheap on demon princes. The stormbolt plate in particular, just 20 points to have a DP with a 2+ armor save and +1 to cover, if the DP's get the legion tactics benefit as well he would have stealth too. That relic is cheaper then the power armor for a normal DP lol.

Make that DP Tzeentch for re-rollable 2+ armour/jink save?

Exactly, I actually think each legion is viable though sadly IW got the shorter end of the stick. I was hoping unit leaders could purchase servo arms and I personally would have like havocs for troops more then oblits/ mutilators for fluff reasons.

IW got shorter end of the stick?

Can't they take Oblits as troops?

**MinscS2**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

If you think paying 7 ppm for defensive grenades, poisoned attacks, easier access to special weapons and the ability to have both a boltpistol+ccw and a bolter is steep, how about paying 4 ppm for +1 WS while also loosing the ability to carry special weapons?

(Comparing MoK CSM with Berzerkers.)

Either way, contrary to popular belief, there are quite afew 40k-players out there who doesn't play this game solely to win tournaments, but instead play it to have fun with their mates and because they think the model's look awesome. Theese are the two main reasons why I'm digging my TS out of the closet. Not because I want to win (because just as in good 'ol 3.5 TS seems to be one of the weakest Legions now), but because the model's look awesome. I don't care if 23 ppm for a Rubric Marine or 40 ppm for a Occult Terminator is hideously overpriced, as long as the model's look great and the army is fun to play with.

**Captyn_Bob**

You also get to take chainaxes?

...for points...

Sigh

**mrhappyface**

Have the new psychic powers been released and I have missed them or are we still waiting?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You also get to take chainaxes?

...for points...

Sigh

Chainaxes they should have standard...

**MinscS2**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Captyn_Bob wrote:
You also get to take chainaxes?

...for points...

Sigh

Chainaxes they should have standard...

It really should.
Not only because it makes sense, it also gives the Berzekers something unique and justifies their pricetag.

GW, Errata please, now!

**crnaguja**

Does anybody know what is the word bearer "decurion" bonus?

**Charax**

Still trying to wrap my head round some stuff

(Apologies if these are stupid, it's been a while since I've had to consider new Chaos rules!)

Which benefits apply to normal CAD armies and which only apply to the Decurions/Warbands? in the Death Guard case, can I just declare any CAD or Purge detachment to be Death Guard and gain Gift of Nurgle and Lords of the Plague Host, but only get Disgustingly Resilient and Cloud of Flies if I choose the Decurion?

also unless I'm missing something, there's no way to have a Daemon Prince in the Decurion is there? we don't have Favoured of Chaos or Lords of the Black Crusade from Traitor's hate and none of the other listed detachments have the option, so you'd need to add another CAD or Purge detachment to include one

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Does anyone see a clear advantage for Plague Marines over Marked CSM now? 7 extra points for blight grenades and poison seems steep.

The advantage of taking Plague Marines over nurgle-marked CSM appears to be the fact that we have an objective for scoring a Poisoned kill - the more models we have with Poison, the higher chance of achieving that objective.

Besides, as someone who's taken out a Hive Tyrant with Plague Knives before, don't underestimate the utility of whole squads capable of taking out anything with a toughness value

**Sersi**

Aren't Daemon Princes available in the "Lords of the Legion" command formation?

**Nightlord1987**

Ah, vey well, you have all convinced me.

So count them as Nurgle CSM in a warband list, and actual Plague Marines in a
Plague Colony list then!

**Charax**

Sersi wrote:
Aren't Daemon Princes not available in the "Lords of the Legion" command formation?

Bless your eyes, I swear I looked that up earlier but must have forgotten, you've just saved me a freakout

**Sersi**

So who does "Bolts of ecstatic vexation" effect the bearer, his unit, or the entire army?

**Virules**

If anyone is interested in the Wrath of Magnus Limited Editions and how GW has been steadily improving their LEs, I just filmed a live unpacking video at my local GW:

https://www.facebook.com/hexfleetvirules/videos/601142350078407/

**Roknar**

I don't suppose the Black Legion deepstrike command benefit is worded such that it applies army wide?

**aka_mythos**

whembly wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Man the night lord relics look amazing and cheap on demon princes. The stormbolt plate in particular, just 20 points to have a DP with a 2+ armor save and +1 to cover, if the DP's get the legion tactics benefit as well he would have stealth too. That relic is cheaper then the power armor for a normal DP lol.

Make that DP Tzeentch for re-rollable 2+ armour/jink save?

Exactly, I actually think each legion is viable though sadly IW got the shorter end of the stick. I was hoping unit leaders could purchase servo arms and I personally would have like havocs for troops more then oblits/ mutilators for fluff reasons.

IW got shorter end of the stick?

Can't they take Oblits as troops?

Yes. First is the general issue that Obliterators and Mutilators are generally over costed. Second while Obliterators and by extension Mutilators have been a defining aspect of 40k era IW, its a bit of a narrow and more minimal aspect, so we need to wait and see if GW has rejiggered the fluff to shine greater emphasis. 10 man Havoc Squads as troops might have been a bit more representative... maybe, I don't know. Third Obliterators and Mutilators tend to work best in small 2 model squads that aren't really expected to survive, a paradigm non-conducive to a troop role.

I think there is an interesting potential in building an army around 6 Obliterator/Mutilator troop squads, but without being able to take MoN the vulnerability to S8 ignoring both the FnP and their multiple wounds compromises their viability.

I do think this also gives an interesting opportunity for people wanting to do some sort of Count-as dark mechanicum.

**Slayer-Fan123**

S8 isn't as spammable, and the primary issue isn't just AP2, but MoN was so important because it helped a ton vs small arms fire. They're 70 point Terminators, with the durability of, well, two Terminators.

**DarknessEternal**

What conditions unlock these formation bonuses? Is it the same as the Thousand Son "must maximize the formation"?