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BrookM wrote:Sorry kids but Kage is..

Spoiler:

dead and gone after taking Von Strab for a dive into a chasm

I refuse that last book even exist. It was complete trash. The 1st 2 books were fantastic and that last one....garbage. Hated it completely and utterly. Large plot holes and Kage getting all you know how. BS......grr

Just thought I would say that

And yes, not hearing anything else on KP is making me worry some. Mech might still be the only way to go...sigh

Or you could just play missions of your own devising.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Or you could just play missions of your own devising.

And what happens to the IG players that want to play in tournaments, or against people that might not want to go by non-standard rules just for one army? IG shouldn't have to jump through hoops and play custom missions just to have a fighting chance.

lord_blackfang wrote:Personally I find some of these rumours way over the top, like the move24"-fire-everything skimmer.

Don't forget - new model = rules that make you buy a lot of them

Fine update

Not so much "New" units, but more reliable.

Seperated the transport (valk) from the transported units (stormtroopers/vets) ?

Over on Boot Camp, Mkoll replied to some Dakka questions, so I told him I'd relate his message.

I have been over at Dakka and while I haven't made an account there I can answer some of their questions and concerns here.

What?! No more Conscripts?! BOO!!!

Well no, but at 4 points for the guardsmen the horde is alive as ever.

I hopefully hope that the Cadian box is just the same. I hope no recuts..

Same is the fact the models haven't changed but the box itself will now have 10 men and a Heavy Weapon.

Personally I find some of these rumours way over the top, like the move24"-fire-everything skimmer.

I agree, like I mentioned this is unlikely but it is something that I had gotten so it must have been talked about at one point. Right now i am simply trying to compile everything for us Guard lovers and then see what will make it.


The Kill Points issue has sadly not been adressed in any thing I have seen. And I have yet to even hear talk of it getting a fix. This is a problem I agree and I had made my feelings on the lack of something to balance it heard, however until I hear something we are stuck in the dark. My personal fix was that an IG platoon was worth 1/2 of the kill points of the total units rounding down. As such a normal platoon of 25 men would be worth 1 kill point, but add in another unit and it becomes worth 2 and so on. This would give us more KPs still but be slightly less harmful to us.

The Cadians are not getting new models just recut into a new box. However the models in the Command Squad box have some bits for a "unique" look. The Leman Russ variant box is all I know, if they redesign the tank(And I doubt it)then it may explain the later release.

Death By Monkeys wrote:
*This unit is one of the most unsure things around. Honestly GW wants it in there. The Leman Russ is EVERYWHERE the guard are, however playtesters are finding this 600ish point unit is "cheesy" If my opinion counts it will make it into the codex for fluff sake*

The bolded section has me thinking they're raising the point cost of the Leman Russ by about 30-35 points because a squad of three russes would run about 500 points by their current cost.

Maybe the standard Russ already includes sponsons and a hull weapon as a standard, this paired with the "lumbering behemoth" rule might explain a point increase.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

I hopefully hope that the Cadian box is just the same. I hope no recuts..

Same is the fact the models haven't changed but the box itself will now have 10 men and a Heavy Weapon.
The Cadians are not getting new models just recut into a new box. However the models in the Command Squad box have some bits for a "unique" look. The Leman Russ variant box is all I know, if they redesign the tank(And I doubt it)then it may explain the later release.

BOO!

Looks like I got me some "Infantry Upgrade Kits" to buy from FW. Baaah.

And I'll probably end up buying 10 command squads just to get the friggin options I want. Yuck.



On another note: 3 Commissar Special Characters? Hell yes! That is winsome/awesome. MORE Commissars!

I'm failing to see the problem w/ the Leman Russ's....it is 600pts that someone is dropping. Apparently no one saw problems(or enough people w/ various other high point cost "overpowered" units that are floating around)but the Leman Russ is just to tough? Nevermind the abudant number of things that can take it out, from Termi's to Multi-Meltas and of course Lascannons.

But yeah, it would appear due to that rumor that they will be going up in point cost

Death By Monkeys wrote:Launch Wave(Wave 1);
Codex
Primaris Psyker(2 Metal Models)
Ratling Snipers(4 Metal Models
Sentinel(Recut to contain a huge amount of options for various outfittings)
Cadian Command Squad(Officer and 4 Guardsmen. A huge box of goodies. This will contain 2 different Officer looks as well as 4 Cadians with various head, pouches and weapons. The beautiful thing here is all Special Weapons in plastic a several CC Officer weapons as well)
Valkyrie
Cadian Shock Troops
Catachan Jungle Fighters

With all the hype with new tanks and things like that, it's a damned shame that the Guard aren't getting any in their first release.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Wave 1.5
This wave is technically a multi wave of various armies being planned with Planet Strike. As such this may be before or after the 2nd wave release. This one is the most unlikely of them all and has thus far only been alluded to me by some people.
Modern Rough Riders(I cannot confirm bikes instead of horses but I have been told.....less Fantasy more gritty sci-fi)
Storm Troopers/Arbite Riot Team(I do not know if these are the same release or separate however they are plastic and will be less Kasrkin, more Imperium)
Naval Fleet Officer Adjutant(1 Model)
Artillery Overseer(1 Model)

Well I can see the plastic Stormies coming out here, along with the two Officers. Hopefully we won't have to wait a year for this...

Death By Monkeys wrote:Wave 2
Leman Russ Recut(Will include 4 variants)
Chimera Recut(Will include the Chimera, Hellhound, Salamander and various outfitting options)
Commissar Lord and Commissars(The new lord is plastic and will be released at the same time as 2 new metal models, giving us 5 metal Commissars and a plastic lord)

A Commissar Lord in plastic? Has plastic really gotten that much cheaper than metal models?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Wave 3/Unknown
These are things that are being released eventually I am told but have no exact info when. The only thing I am pretty sure on is that they will not be released at the time of the First wave.
Artillery Tank(Basilisk and 2/3 other variants. My bet is for sure Griffin and Medusa and have heard the word Manticore thrown around)
Veteran Models(Metal not sure if they are meant to be officers or Veteran soliders)

Christ... a third wave? For release when, 2011? There's 'keeping interest' and then there's 'delaying for no fething reason'.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Platoon Fire Drill
This rule will allow any platoon that is equipped with a Vox network in ALL squads to shoot through each other without granting the enemy cover saves. This will not effect each platoon as a whole as only members of the same platoon can fire through one another.
- However there is talk of how people will keep track of who is who when the game starts without conversions. As such this may be scrapped or changed to effect every unit that has a vox provided a Master Vox is taken in each Command Squad.

Yeah that does sound like a very difficult rule to keep track of from a modelling perspective. Easy for those of us who have multiple Guard types in their army (I have new Cadian, old Cadian, Mordian and Tallarn), but for anyone who's gone 'pure' with a single type, that could be a problem.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Lumbering Behemoth
Note however firing the Ordnance of any such vehicle will still not allow it to fire other weapons.

Thereby defeating the purpose of the rule... which means GW will 100% do it this way.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Advisers
Attached the Command Squad of the officer in charge are various Advisers/Aides from different factions able to assist the guard in their fight.

So these are our mandatory Generic Special Characters it seems.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Priest 45 Points - Allows the entire army, once per game to fleet and gain +1 attack and reroll all failed to hits. May only happen in the IG players turn. Must be declared in the shooting phase.

If it is failed To Hits for shooting, then he's mandatory. He will be in every army. If it is just To Hit in HTH, no one will take him.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Naval Attachment 25 Points - This close support officer is observing the battle and is able to call in pin point strikes from the might ships of the Imperium in orbit. Once per game an Orbital Bombardment may be used in the IG players shooting phase. This strike will only scatter if a HIT is not rolled, and will only scatter D6 inches.

25 points for a single Orbital Bombardment?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Artillery Observer 40 Points - Can call in long range artillery well outside the active warzone. This can be used to call up to 3 Earthshaker rounds per game, they may come in any shooting phase the IG player wishes and can all be used at once or separately. They will always scatter 2D6 inches.

40 points for a Basilisk that scatters a full 2D6 inches every turn... yeah no...

Death By Monkeys wrote:Commissar Lord 40 Points - This man can install the fear and faith into any loyal servant. This unit will allow up to 10 Commissars to be attached to the Regiment rather than the usual 5 and will be able to once per game rally any and all fleeing IG units on the table automatically.

Could be another mandatory unit if it is any and all units simultaneously.

Death By Monkeys wrote:The HQ is home to Special Characters of the IG as well as the required Field Command Platoon. Honestly the Special Characters have been flying around and there are about 18 choices with only 6 or so making it into the book. Personally I think we will see; Yarrik, Cain, Gaunt, Creed, and two or 3 of the new ones.

Ah they should include all 18, that way they can spend the next 4 years doing new 'Guard Waves' with new special character models.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Field Command Platoon.
Consists of 1 Commanding Officer or Junior Commanding Officer(Roughly a SO or HSO)with 4 guardsmen. The unit can then add up to 1 of each Adviser. Can be taken as "Grenadiers" instead of regular Guard.(Also talk of this allowing up to 3 Storm Trooper squads to be taken as troops) May take a Chimera or Salamander Command Vehicle.

Salamanders don't transport anyone, and besides, we're not getting a Salamander model until Q3 2016 in Wave 6, so what does it matter?

Death By Monkeys wrote:0-2 Veteran Squads(Replaced with Storm Troopers if the Grenadier option is taken)
0-2 Special Weapon Squads
0-2 Heavy Weapon Squads
Max of 5 Squads can be taken.

So loads of FoC swapping - Vets and Stormies move around the place. Every day the 'Chaos' Codex gets worse and worse.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Primaris Psyker. Basically the Guard version of a Space Marine Librarian. Has Guardsmen stats, but has several powers it can choose from and can purchase a hood. This has been moved between its own choice and an adviser option several times. **When I mentioned that they were not so nice I meant the model, the rules will be fun i think sorry for any confusion)**

Yay. A bad model. Here's hoping for random powers rolled after deployment.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Cadet? Commissars 0-5. These may be placed in any unit within an IG platoon. One per unit max. Do not use up an HQ choice. Also on the subject that 3 Heavy Bolter Commissar squad I have read about while very fluffy seems to be absent from anything I have seen. I am not sure if this was wishlisting that got absorbed or if I missed it.

Training Commissars did exist in the fluff back in RT. I hope they're actually worth taking and are no more than 15-20 points.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Veteran Squads(No infiltrate)

Well they rule now, and there's no model for them, so GW has nothing to sell, so they're the most obvious candidate besides the Hellhound for the nerfhamer.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Storm Trooper Squads

Prime candidate for the 'new model with crap rules' that every Codex gets one or sometimes two of.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Sniper Team - 6 Models, all armed with Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Stealth[This would give them Stealth twice as the Camo Cloak gives them it too.....unless they are meant to get +2 to all cover saves], Range Finders and Infiltrate.
*Also this squad has been considered to be moved as a 0-1 platoon option rather than an elite choice*

Why do these guys exist if Ratlings exist?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Ogryns, I was mistaken here. The talk is T5 or FNP not both. Well at one time it was both but it was considered to "hard" for them. Nothing much changes except that someone wants 3A 3W for the same points.

Without T5 there is no point in having them.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Ratlings - 10 Models, all with Sniper Rifles and BS 3[So I have read could change but might make our Sniper teams more elite]and Stealth.
Their old rule for being small has simply been replaced for stealth. At 10 points each they are a steal.

So they've gone down a whole point. And notice before it said that there are 4 new models... no doubt they come in blisters of 4, and are 10 per unit, meaning you need to get 3 blisters (and therefore have 2 spare) to get a full unit. I thought GW was past screwing us over with shenanigans like that.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Spearhead Sentinels - That is right Armour in out elite section! Actually not much basically just a sentinel with 3 different weapons(Lascannon, Multi Melta, Plasma Cannon and 11 front Armour) This is the one I am most unsure about. The problem is whether to include them all as Sentinels or have two entries, and if so where do the entries go.

If they're different units who cares about multiple entries.

Death By Monkeys wrote:We have only one troop choice. It is the Infantry Platoon.

Ensuring that people have to buy more models of course, rather than a single squad. And with Guardsmen now coming 10 to a box rather than 20 (no doubt at 2/3rds the cost of the original box), it just got more expensive! YAY!

Death By Monkeys wrote:2-5 Infantry Squads(4 points each, may take 2 special weapons OR 1 Special and 1 Heavy, May take Chimera)

Yeah I don't see two special weapons making it into the book.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Attachment; if all units have a Chimera then a Hellhound may be taken as part of the Platoon and not as a FA slot. If all units do not have a Chimera the squad may have a Scout Sentinel or Salamander Scout Vehicle Attached instead.

Umm... good?

Death By Monkeys wrote:-Chimeras have a wide variety of weapons including the popular Auto Cannon

Finally...

Death By Monkeys wrote:The rules are virtually identical to the ones located in the IA update-

Of couse they are. Warwick just copypasted them into his FAQ from whatever was currently written by the Dev Team at the time.

Death By Monkeys wrote:**Honestly the Vehicles that this new Spanish site has posted have never come to me. I will not say for sure they aren't real as BoLS has had confirmations on one of them**

Good. The list of vehicles was pointless - a Flamertank, a Melta tank and a Chemical Tank. Seriously, who'd spend a whole FA slot on a Chimera with a Multi-Melta?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Hellhound

Can I has nerfhammer?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Salamander Scout Vehicle

Q4 2022, Wave 30! But we won't show preview pics or even confirm a new model until a few hours before release...

Death By Monkeys wrote:Scout Sentinel (See Spearhead) - This variant would be AV 10 all around, have scout and be equipped with a Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Autocannon, Multi Laser or twin CC Weapons.

Twin CC weapons? So we're finally getting a proper Aliens Powerloader?

Death By Monkeys wrote:Vendetta/Vulture Gunship - 24 inch fast skimmer, may shoot all weapon no matter how fast it moves. Various loadouts

Oh for God's sake. There is a gunship version of the Valkyrie. It's called a Vulture. Why do they feel the need to invent fluff for something that's already represented. It better not be the Vendetta.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Valkyrie - 24 inch fast skimmer. May carry Storm Troopers or Veteran Squads and deploy them even after moving 24 inches.

I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if a million Eldar players whined out in terror and were then silenced. I feel something wishlisty has happened.

Death By Monkeys wrote:**Honestly the Vehicles that this new Spanish site has posted have never come to me. I will not say for sure they aren't real as BoLS has had confirmations on one of them**

Again, good. We don't need 10 different versions of the Russ in a single book, and I don't fancy waiting until Wave 40 in Q2 2160 to get the Heavy 20 Russ Cannon kit.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Leman Russ Squadron - The Squadron has AV 14 at the front. Although people claim a 13 so this could change but I have heard no such change.

AV13 would be catastrophically stupid.

Death By Monkeys wrote:This unit may ONLY be MBTs with no variants.

Hooray for arbitrary restrictions! If true this would rank up there with the super-evolved and always-mutating Tyranid race only being allowed one set of wings per army.

Death By Monkeys wrote:The Squadron does NOT act like a Squadron and the vehicles may be placed separate. The choice is a 0-1.

Is it the only place we can get Russes?

Death By Monkeys wrote:*This unit is one of the most unsure things around. Honestly GW wants it in there. The Leman Russ is EVERYWHERE the guard are, however playtesters are finding this 600ish point unit is "cheesy" If my opinion counts it will make it into the codex for fluff sake*

I thought that GW didn't care if something was cheesy as long as:

1. It had nice fluff.
2. They could sell more models.

Who cares about 'cheesyness'? Only those dirty bottom-feeding scum-sucking 'tournament players' *spits* care about power.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Leman Russ
Leman Russ Vanquisher
Leman Russ Demolisher
Leman Russ Exterminator

Plastic Exterminator could be nice.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Basilisk
Griffin
Medusa
*Medusa is a possibility*

Don't really know how I'd fit more artillery into my army. I don't think I want any...

BYE

This is all a lot better then the blatant wishlisting in that last thread. I'm sad to see ratlings and rough rider included though.

ShumaGorath wrote:This is all a lot better then the blatant wishlisting in that last thread. I'm sad to see ratlings and rough rider included though.

I see it more as a case of Catch-22. Both of these rumor lists are essentially the same kind of thing and if either comes to pass, the army will be completely boned. I think HBMC is being too optimistic about his assessments.

My 1000pt list will still be worth 19 Kill Points and unable to take objectives. My Ratlings will be getting worse, my Ogryns won't get the upgrades they desperately need, my compulsory Troops choices keep getting more and more expensive (I'll have to take a 25 man, 4-KP platoon instead of 6 Grenadiers), and so on. Against that backdrop, I could not care less how many autocannon barrels they can give a Russ or how obscene the Valkyrie rules will be. The Guard will still suck all that is donkey.

Platuan4th wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Still no rumors on a KP fix. :(

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Again, I don't think GW actually sees the IG KP issue as an issue or problem, they most likely see it as a "balance" for the Guard having so many units. Silly GW.

This totally blows if GW REALLY doesn't think KPs are an issue. I know that a lot of people don't play these armies at tournaments, but for those of that do, it SUCKS! I really hope they give some attention to this issue.

HHHHMMMM well put H.B.M.C. If half of these are true my IG just got more toys to use. lets see about the KP

25 points for a single Orbital Bombardment?

Thats the point difference between a captain and a master of the chapter. It's what they seem to think its worth, I for one believe it's not a bad price to pay at all.

If it is failed To Hits for shooting, then he's mandatory. He will be in every army. If it is just To Hit in HTH, no one will take him.

I'm not so sure thats true. An army wide fleet +1 attack is pretty amazing, especially for 40 points.

40 points for a Basilisk that scatters a full 2D6 inches every turn... yeah no...

Ordinance shots coming out of your HQ section without being attached to a vulnerable shakeable tank. Are you just bad at this game? Thats pie.

Prime candidate for the 'new model with crap rules' that every Codex gets one or sometimes two of.

After the spat about vet squads. You are now captain contradiction. This is your title. Captain of contradictions.

Without T5 there is no point in having them.

Yeah because cheap 3 wound models with FNP are god awful.

Good. The list of vehicles was pointless - a Flamertank, a Melta tank and a Chemical Tank. Seriously, who'd spend a whole FA slot on a Chimera with a Multi-Melta?

Wasn't it a blast weapon? I'd buy that.

Can I has nerfhammer?

The rumored drop to 12" + upgrade to fast vehicle isn't exactly a nerf. At all.

Who cares about 'cheesyness'? Only those dirty bottom-feeding scum-sucking 'tournament players' *spits* care about power.

Giant squadrons of 9 russes running around with armor value 14 are better left to apocalypse, where I can never have to see them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if a million Eldar players whined out in terror and were then silenced. I feel something wishlisty has happened.

Thats a sig right thar.

... and you'll take the low road.

Post self-removed due to not adding anything to the thread other than me just fighting Shummy's endless need to be contrary towards me, which none of us need to see. - H.B.M.C.

I don't know that 40pts for 3 Earthshaker rounds is too bad, even with drift. If you really can drop all of them at the same time, you could seriously wreck a cramped deployment zone, daemon drops that are close to each other, things like that. The drift is a bear, but indirect fire always drifts a full 2d6, so for 1/3(?) the price of a basilisk, you get 3/5 - 1/2 of the shooting, all at once, and a spare wound on your presumably important command squad that does not give up a KP (the model, not the squad.) That's pretty neat.

I am not so certain about the fleet officer, but a relatively accurate large blast that is (presumably) Str10 AP1 is pretty nasty, if you don't have to pick a terrain area before the game begins to key it into. If it is essentially the Marine Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment, that will be pretty sexy for the points, as again, it is another wound on the command squad. Getting 25 points back from that sort of shot shouldn't be too hard.

Granted, I am basing this on the notion that since the standard guardsmen will be so cheap, 25-65 points of extra "boom" will be easy to squeeze in. If special/heavy weapons are more expensive, or tanks go up in price, I could see armies being too tight on points for such things. Hard for me to imagine though.

H.B.M.C. wrote:A Commissar Lord in plastic? Has plastic really gotten that much cheaper than metal models?

No, but they can charge $20 for it like they do the SM Commander and the CSM Terminator Lord.

H.B.M.C. wrote:If it is failed To Hits for shooting, then he's mandatory. He will be in every army. If it is just To Hit in HTH, no one will take him.

You really think GW would make it to hits for shooting? Right.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Salamanders don't transport anyone, and besides, we're not getting a Salamander model until Q3 2016 in Wave 6, so what does it matter?

Although this makes me wonder if they'll change the Sallie rules and give them a 5-man transport capacity like the Centaur. In all the various BL guard novels, they make it sound like a Sallie can hold around that many.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yay. A bad model. Here's hoping for random powers rolled after deployment.

Actually, it sounded like you get to choose the powers for him rather than rolling randomly as it is now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Veteran Squads(No infiltrate)

Well they rule now, and there's no model for them, so GW has nothing to sell, so they're the most obvious candidate besides the Hellhound for the nerfhamer.

QFT.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Sniper Team...

Why do these guys exist if Ratlings exist?

<shrug> There's a lot of folks (myself included) that feel that Ratlings are a stupid, outmoded concept and would rather play with human snipers.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So they've gone down a whole point. And notice before it said that there are 4 new models... no doubt they come in blisters of 4, and are 10 per unit, meaning you need to get 3 blisters (and therefore have 2 spare) to get a full unit. I thought GW was past screwing us over with shenanigans like that.

Are you kidding? That's practically written into their business plan.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Hellhound

Can I has nerfhammer?

Again, QFT.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh for God's sake. There is a gunship version of the Valkyrie. It's called a Vulture. Why do they feel the need to invent fluff for something that's already represented. It better not be the Vendetta.

In principle, I agree with you, but if GW's going to release a box that can be built both as a Valkyrie and as a gunship version, the gunship will look substantially different enough from the Vulture that I can see GW not wanting to call it that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if a million Eldar players whined out in terror and were then silenced....

And this is a bad thing?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I thought that GW didn't care if something was cheesy as long as:

1. It had nice fluff.
2. They could sell more models.

Yes, but look at it this way. Let's say, theoretically, that you can have 3 squadrons of 3 LRBTs at ~600 points a squadron (and $90 a pop). That's 1800 points (and $270) towards a 2000 point army. Two Stormtrooper squads (at say $40 a pop each), plus a Grenadier Command Squad (at another $35) and you have an IG army for only $385! That's dirt cheap! But make it so you can only take a max of 5 Leman Russ Chassis, and that's another 800 points that you've got to fill with more expensive things.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Don't really know how I'd fit more artillery into my army. I don't think I want any...

I know I'd rather just have more Russ Chassis tanks...

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah because cheap 3 wound models with FNP are god awful.

Ogryns have never been cheap, Ogryns will never be cheap. We're talking 35+ points per model here, I'm sure (GW will not miss a chance to raise their cost).

In a Marine army. I see it as a bit of a 'drop in the ocean' for Guard armies.

It has the same uses on the same enemies in the same way. I don't see how it's different enough to become cheaper. Just because the guard can lay down pie in addition doesn't make the orbital strike any less effective or powerful.

Except they're Guardsmen. HTH bonuses for Guard don't get taken.

Unless they're really good and not unit specific. Like this one. With rough rider, ogryns, and possibly even sentinel powerlifters being redone it could have some legs.

Oh! A personal attack. Wonderful.

If its the harshest thing anyone says you to today you should feel lucky. It was barely even an attack .

More personal attacks. Fantastic.

And my comments about Vets and Stormies are unrelated. But nice try.

I forgot, when two model sets get redone and one has good rules and the other doesn't its an intentional bid to increase sales (even when that makes no sense). Got it.

We've seen nothing about them having 3 wounds. We can assume they will retain their 3 wounds given they've had them since 2nd Ed, but we don't know that for sure especially since every rumour thread hasn't listed their wound value.

And who said anything about them being cheap?

They sit in the same cheap area that tyranid warriors sit in. More than plague marines, less than terminators. Wraithguard also sit here.

Besides, Ogryn are supposed to be tough. Dying to S8 in HTH combat makes them the opposite of tough

Yeah, if my space marine captain gets to do it so does your half slowed wrestler guy from a high gravity planet. Krak missiles and power fists are designed to kill tanks and daemons, they damn well better kill ogryn too.

What good's a blast weapon on something designed to hunt tanks?

There are these things. Lets call them terminators. They could have 2+ saves and come in squads. Lets say they tend to just sort of plop down in front of an army and sit in a clump for a turn shooting guns. Wouldn't it be great against them? It makes the gun a plasma canon/meltagun with the advantages both bring. Certainly not bad for a fast attack choice.


Also the blast makes it much harder to miss larger tanks (and about average at shooting little ones).

Where was it said they were becoming Fast vehicles?

I thought that rumor set also had them becoming fast vehicles? I could simply be mistaken here.

Anti-Apoc Elitist must be another group at Dakka, alongside the Casual Gamer Gestapo and the Counts As Brigade.

Nah, its just a relaxed tourney gamer mindset. I think a well balanced set of rules that can hold up in tournaments well work well in casual games also. throwing down 9 battlecanons, 2 orbitals, and 2 off table basilisk shots turn 1 would not work well in casual games and would be awful in tournaments.

Also a couple new notes from Mkoll confirming that:
- Sharpshooters is, indeed, gone.
- Gaunt has infiltrate and allows any Infantry Platoon to have infiltrate.
- There is/was a Harakoni special character that allowed Infantry Platoons to Drop, but it sounds like he might now be making the final cut.
- Sounds like you can make a viable Drop Troop army using Storm Troopers, but not without them.
- Mkoll speculates that GW may take out Infantry Squads getting 2 special weapons, but may allow it if the Squad gets a Chimera.

Death By Monkeys wrote:No, but they can charge $20 for it like they do the SM Commander and the CSM Terminator Lord.

Makes me sad that they'd make a plastic Commissar kit, but not a plastic Warboss kit.

Death By Monkeys wrote:You really think GW would make it to hits for shooting? Right.

Of course not, but I'm saying that this guy will either appear in every Guard army, or no Guard armies. There will be no middle ground here.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Although this makes me wonder if they'll change the Sallie rules and give them a 5-man transport capacity like the Centaur. In all the various BL guard novels, they make it sound like a Sallie can hold around that many.

If they allow it to carry 5 guys, then great! That's a wonderful idea.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Actually, it sounded like you get to choose the powers for him rather than rolling randomly as it is now.

Can't you let a man dream Monkey? Personally I'm hoping that you have to roll after deployment for what Heavy Weapon your Guard squads have!!!

Death By Monkeys wrote:<shrug> There's a lot of folks (myself included) that feel that Ratlings are a stupid, outmoded concept and would rather play with human snipers.

Which is fine... but why have two different units? GW is all about 'Counts As' (almost as much as JonnyDD) and I'm surprised that they'd make two different units to appease people who don't like Space Hobbits. Ah they're probably not getting a new model anyway, and they'll be 3 Snipers to a squad (Snipers come 2 to a blister, remember?).

Death By Monkeys wrote:Are you kidding? That's practically written into their business plan.

A while back yes, but they've made leaps and bounds away from that. Like with the Aspect Warrior boxes. They're 5 guys + Exarch, so you can buy two and have a full squad + a choice of Exarchs. It'd be far worse if it was 4 guys + Exarch, as you'd need 3 boxes to get 9 regular guys for the squad.

I still remember, years and years and years ago, when I bought some Ratlings. Found a blister with 5 of them in there rather than 4. Asked the GW staffer why that happened and he said "Sometimes they feel nice".

Death By Monkeys wrote:In principle, I agree with you, but if GW's going to release a box that can be built both as a Valkyrie and as a gunship version, the gunship will look substantially different enough from the Vulture that I can see GW not wanting to call it that.

I don't have a problem with the two looking similar.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Yes, but look at it this way. Let's say, theoretically, that you can have 3 squadrons of 3 LRBTs at ~600 points a squadron (and $90 a pop). That's 1800 points (and $270) towards a 2000 point army. Two Stormtrooper squads (at say $40 a pop each), plus a Grenadier Command Squad (at another $35) and you have an IG army for only $385! That's dirt cheap! But make it so you can only take a max of 5 Leman Russ Chassis, and that's another 800 points that you've got to fill with more expensive things.

Very good point. But be careful, certain posters around here would lable you a conspiracy theorist to even dream about GW making Codices in a way that's designed to sell the most amount of models.

Death By Monkeys wrote:I know I'd rather just have more Russ Chassis tanks...

I wouldn't! I've already got 30 (31 if you count the Bombard). I don't want any more...

BYE

ShumaGorath wrote:...2 orbitals, and 2 off table basilisk shots turn 1 would not work well in casual games and would be awful in tournaments.

From Mkoll's rumors it sounds like you could only get 1 orbital (limited to 1 Naval Adjutant giving 1 per game), but you could throw down 3 off-table Bassie shots (though limited to 1 Arty Overseer, he allows for up to 3 Bassie shots per game).

And I haven't seen in any of Mkoll's info anything about Hellhound being fast - I think that was from the Spanish rumors.

... and you'll take the low road.

Post removed due to not adding anything to the thread. - H.B.M.C.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:I know I'd rather just have more Russ Chassis tanks...

I wouldn't! I've already got 30 (31 if you count the Bombard). I don't want any more...

No, no, no...I meant I'd just rather field more Russ Chassis tanks than other arty.

Death By Monkeys wrote:- Gaunt has infiltrate and allows any Infantry Platoon to have infiltrate.
- There is/was a Harakoni special character that allowed Infantry Platoons to Drop, but it sounds like he might now be making the final cut.

Oh goody! Special Characters are now required to take an army I used to take without them.

Just as fing predicted. Well done GW. Well fing done.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:No, but they can charge $20 for it like they do the SM Commander and the CSM Terminator Lord.

Makes me sad that they'd make a plastic Commissar kit, but not a plastic Warboss kit.

Amen, brother.

I would proffer a first turn 3 shot + standard artillery + troops maxed to maximum heavy weapons +vultures might be an interesting list.