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Frazzled wrote:I would proffer a first turn 3 shot + standard artillery + troops maxed to maximum heavy weapons +vultures might be an interesting list.

Me: "I'll start everything in reserves."

That was one of the better 5e changes, as it helps mitigate the alpha strike.

One thing we've not heard squat about yet: are IG officers still ICs with retinues? If not, that's 3 KP fewer, which is at least *something*. (Something that is offset by having 1/3 add'l units of men, mind you.)

Modquisition on:

Gentlemen, please argue the points not the personas.

Moquisition off.

Janthkin wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I would proffer a first turn 3 shot + standard artillery + troops maxed to maximum heavy weapons +vultures might be an interesting list.

Me: "I'll start everything in reserves."

That was one of the better 5e changes, as it helps mitigate the alpha strike.

One thing we've not heard squat about yet: are IG officers still ICs with retinues? If not, that's 3 KP fewer, which is at least *something*. (Something that is offset by having 1/3 add'l units of men, mind you.)

The flips side-if that artillery officer can hold the fire, then you're facing significant artillery when it comes in. Just thinking Baran siegemasters concepts here.

Frazzled wrote:I would proffer a first turn 3 shot + standard artillery + troops maxed to maximum heavy weapons +vultures might be an interesting list.

The one thing I keep thinking about as we get these rumors, though, is that, in a way, this doesn't solve the MSU issue currently afflicting IG. Will IG be able to have more Pie Plates? Yes, definitely. But (with the possible exception of the Vulture/Vendetta) does this change the Guard's anti-tank ability? Not really - you're still going to have to be fielding multiple fast-moving/dropping units of 2x to 3x Meltagunners to take care of tanks.

Right, are you two idiots through baiting each other already?

Oh Oh Oh, from the all the rumors IG could potentially lay down 15 templates first turn
2 orbitals, 2 off table basilisk shots, 3 Russ, and 8 templates from two manticores blowing their complete wad turn one.

Frazzled wrote:Gentlemen, please argue the points not the personas.

And to that I can say, without a single shadow of a doubt:

*puts on best 3-year-old voice*

He started it!!!

(/3-year-old's voice)

No really, he did.

BYE

Oh, boo fething hoo.

Sounds liek they are trying to mitigate the MSU problems by cranking up the number of tanks per army. So whereas you will still have cheap units, it sounds like really you'll have two platoons with infantry squads to hold objectives and mop up, but the bulk of your force will be very expensive tanks, Sentinels, and such. I don't think that you'll end up having as many KP available as you do now.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Oh, boo fething hoo.

Very well. I shall take the high road here and delete all my replies to Shummy, leaving only my commentary on the rumours.

BYE

Personally rumor wise I see a manticore more likely than a death strike, and I also see a manticore mistaken for a death strike from someone who is not too familiar with the models.

Scottywan82 wrote:Sounds liek they are trying to mitigate the MSU problems by cranking up the number of tanks per army. So whereas you will still have cheap units, it sounds like really you'll have two platoons with infantry squads to hold objectives and mop up, but the bulk of your force will be very expensive tanks, Sentinels, and such. I don't think that you'll end up having as many KP available as you do now.

Which is great if you want to buy the incredibly crappy tank models they produce, in multiples, just to build a competitive army. And even then it's essentially a toss-up, because so many armies can kill tanks so incredibly easily that all those new toys will simply evaporate like morning dew.

Personally, I believe that IG is unfixable within the context of the 5E metagame.

Scottywan82 wrote:Sounds liek they are trying to mitigate the MSU problems by cranking up the number of tanks per army. So whereas you will still have cheap units, it sounds like really you'll have two platoons with infantry squads to hold objectives and mop up, but the bulk of your force will be very expensive tanks, Sentinels, and such. I don't think that you'll end up having as many KP available as you do now.

Edit: Deleted as it was a lousy list...

Agamemnon2 wrote:Personally, I believe that IG is unfixable within the context of the 5E metagame.

Unfixable only if you completely ignore the KP issue, which, given what we've heard, GW seems to be doing. In fact, now that I think about it, all the rumours are pointing towards Guard armies actually increasing the amount of units in the army.

Now, ignoring all the usual notions of increasing an army's size to sell more models and other standard business practices that certain members regard as 'conspiracy theories', the fact that Guard armies appear to be getting bigger, with everything either coming in Squadrons or Platoons, it really does seem like GW are taking the 'Screw KP - just try to table them!' approach, by giving us overwhelming firepower to annihilate enemy force so that we don't have to worry about KP's.

Not 100% certain that that's the best course of action, plus it leads to a very one dimensional style of play/

BYE

Sounds sweet! I'm thinking of something similar, but skipping the hellhounds, dropping one set of STs, putting the other in a Valk, and adding a platoon of infantry.

foil7102 wrote:Personally rumor wise I see a manticore more likely than a death strike, and I also see a manticore mistaken for a death strike from someone who is not too familiar with the models.

That's a good point, but I can't see the Manticore being part of the main list either. GW won't want people having to remember how many shots they've fired a game (did I fire five shots or six? You feelin' lucky?) and if they're unlimited... then why take a Basilisk? Unless they make the Manticore different (ie. worse) than a Basilisk, in which case we'll have three different rulesets for a single tank.

BYE

These rumors sound pretty legit. These rumors make me happy.

In the pants.

That is all.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Now, ignoring all the usual notions of increasing an army's size to sell more models and other standard business practices that certain members regard as 'conspiracy theories', the fact that Guard armies appear to be getting bigger, with everything either coming in Squadrons or Platoons, it really does seem like GW are taking the 'Screw KP - just try to table them!' approach, by giving us overwhelming firepower to annihilate enemy force so that we don't have to worry about KP's.

The only time I've ever tabled an opponent was when they fielded an 8-Ork list against me at 500pts. Even then, it came down to blind chance, tactics had nothing to do with it.

See, now this is a lot more believable.

Yay!

I for one am looking forward to the new codex when it comes out, I've only got a small force around 1K so it shouldnt be much of a problem to fit the new toys in.

Agamemnon2 wrote:The only time I've ever tabled an opponent was when they fielded an 8-Ork list against me at 500pts. Even then, it came down to blind chance, tactics had nothing to do with it.

Hey, look, I didn't say it was a good idea. I'm just putting it forward as a possible explanation as to why we've heard nothing about GW fixing the KP problem with Guard. If there's no opposing models left to fight you at the end of your second shooting phase, then KP's are irrelevent, yes?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Oh, boo fething hoo.

Very well. I shall take the high road here and delete all my replies to Shummy, leaving only my commentary on the rumours.

BYE

Carthage has withdrawn. The battle is won.

Death By Monkeys wrote:
playtesters

Don't worry everyone, these rumors are false! We all know that GW doesn't use playtesters. You almost had me there, too.

ShumaGorath wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Oh, boo fething hoo.

Very well. I shall take the high road here and delete all my replies to Shummy, leaving only my commentary on the rumours.

BYE

Carthage has withdrawn. The battle is won.

Every empire has to fall eventually, Caesar.

bollocks with plastic cadian riot team, i've spent stupid money on 3 enforcer necromunda team, and the army is almost done, (not happy :(, unless they have decent rules)

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh goody! Special Characters are now required to take an army I used to take without them.

Just as fing predicted. Well done GW. Well fing done.

BYE

Haven't you heard H.B.M.C.? That's how GW rolls now....sell you special characters so you can use things that you currently use anyways. Yippie!!!

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:bollocks with plastic cadian riot team, i've spent stupid money on 3 enforcer necromunda team, and the army is almost done, (not happy :(, unless they have decent rules)

We've seen the Arbites Riot team rules, they're in the Witch Hunter Codex, which is why they're even being made.

Any news on what might happen to the Steel legion?

I sure wish they would have redone at least one of the currently not in plastic guard variants. (With personaly preference being on Valhallans or Vostroyans.) Without those I may as well just buy the codex and skip the army. Empire Total War here I come!!! (Referencing that I was either going to buy a really big guard army or a new computer.)

JP wrote:Any news on what might happen to the Steel legion?

One of two things:

1. Every squad can get a Chimera normally, meaning there's no specialist list or rule or anything.
2. If you take Colonel Steel McLegion you can put everyone in Chimeras.

I'm leaning more towards the former, but given the most recent rumour about more army-altering special characters, who knows...

BYE