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Eh, he takes the standard vanilla SM theme and makes it better.

Vulkan and Shrike and Lysander and even Pedro are all pretty slick, and have some nice rules to their credit, but none maintain the existing SM rules, it's a switch. Sicarius adds to the existing set of special rules and skills, and gives a little extra 'oompf' to what is otherwise a basic Tactical Squad.

He's... bread and butter vs toast and jam.
Sure, both are good, but sometimes, it's the simple less shiny things that are needed.

My demi-company won quite handily, by the way. Once again, Sicarious made the day, singlehandedly taking care of every major assault threat the Blood Angels could throw at me, and making my largely infantry force rock hard with LD10. My regular opponent is now trying to figure out ANYTHING to take to answer Sicarious.

He's to expensive.

Please explain. For the FNP, weapon, artificer armor, special rules, etc. he seems appropriately costed.

I think Sicarius is pretty cool guy, eh kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.

I am actually using him for an escalation campaign my LGS is running. We have to keep the same HQ for the whole thing and we can only take 1 option that is not a troop (chose 1 : FA or HS or Elite). So I am running 3 tac squads and a 3 attack bike squad. But the fact I can pick what I need at the start of each fight is awsome. Fighting a bunch of light tanks, give my missle launcher squad tank hunters, fighting heavy armor, give my lascannon TH. Fighting a horde army, take counter assault, etc, etc.

Maybe it's just new-toy syndrome (to get back to the OP). Sicarious, along with pretty much ALL the new SM Special Characters are just so awesome that people have just naturally zoomed in on the biggest shiny (and Master-Crafted Thunder Hammers is a BIIIIG Shiny, no doubt about it) in the box. Within a year, maybe a new set of favorites will emerge. As the game evolves, so do our ways of looking at bonuses and deficiencies over time.

Pedro Cantor beats Sicarius hands down.

Cantor makes the whole army Stubborn, which is much better then LD 10 ( LD 10? Oh I caused 6 wounds...roll over a 4...aww a 5, now run away).

Cantor makes SternGuard a scoring unit. And he gives +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches. That is huge, especially if you charge the SternGuard who start off with a base 2. Give them the charge, or have a Vanguard squad nearby....

Make Cantor a central figure and all the Tac squads in the area get that +1.

Whil Sicarius gives flexibility, I find the bonuses given by Cantor to be more game changing, and also gives flexibility in that normal Tac squads are now much more deadly in HTH.

And Cantor has orbital bombardment.

I thought I'd post a batrep for my Demi-Company game, but I can't find the energy to write all that tonight, maybe later. Meanwhile, here's the link to the pics.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/234553.page#634350

I think GeneralRetreat is pretty cool guy, eh kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything.

General Hobbs wrote:

Pedro Cantor beats Sicarius hands down.

Cantor makes the whole army Stubborn, which is much better then LD 10 ( LD 10? Oh I caused 6 wounds...roll over a 4...aww a 5, now run away).

Cantor makes SternGuard a scoring unit. And he gives +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches. That is huge, especially if you charge the SternGuard who start off with a base 2. Give them the charge, or have a Vanguard squad nearby....

Make Cantor a central figure and all the Tac squads in the area get that +1.

Whil Sicarius gives flexibility, I find the bonuses given by Cantor to be more game changing, and also gives flexibility in that normal Tac squads are now much more deadly in HTH.

And Cantor has orbital bombardment.

Some people actually prefer Combat Tactics to Stubborn

Yes Cantor is the better choice, but only if you want to build a Sternguard force. For those of use who do not want to have multiple units of Sternguards (or any), then clearly Cantor is not "the best".

Most of the special characters basically force (or are at least more optimal) a specific army make up/play style. While this can be very powerful, it can also lead to more direct counters. Sicarius actual makes an army more flexable and adaptable, thus harder to counter (but of course, lacks the focused power of a list build around 1 ability).

Part of what makes SM so deadly now is Combat Tactics. It's painfully difficult to kill them in assault now, meaning you really don't need to spend points on counter assault units. Sicarius lets you keep this and encourages you to take more scoring units, and lets you get away with it.
Take some tanks, and the enemy will be hard pressed to outshoot you and even harder pressed to assault you.

Yep. 2/3 of the missions require you to score with troops. There's really two schools of thought on how to do this; go cheap and expect them to do nothing but squat on objectives and survive while everything else supports them, or equip them to the teeth and make them able to really contribute to the battle, while banking on numbers, tactics, gear, or luck to see you through with enough to win.

Both sides have plenty of validity, but if you're on the "Equip, not Strip" side of the fence (like myself), Sicarious is the HQ you've always wanted.

Sure, it cuts down on the toys in my army, but it also confuses my opponent while they look for the shinies and overlook "meager" troops. When those troops succeed, I get the most bewildered looks...

Best moment of the last game: Thanks to Sicarious, Tactical 2 was granted Scouts. Tactical 2-1 with the Razorback chose to Outflank, while 2-2 with the Plasma Cannon took up a good field position.

My opponent (who is still new, btw, so go easy), deployed Mephiston and his swank Honor Guard back in the corner where they could follow up after the DC. I rolled a 4 and got 2-1 from Reserves at the top of Turn 2, before Mephiston had moved (DoW deployment).

The Razorback pulls up 6", 2-1 deploys with a Plasmagun and a Powersword. The Razorback fires the TL-Plasmagun, the squad Rapid-Fires (7 bolts, 2 plasma) and basically everything hits. He looses 4 out of 6 models from the 400+ point unit and has to take a wound on Mephiston. They charge, angrily, on the next turn, but bad rolls for Mephiston leave the Seargent alive and able to strike back with his Powersword. I assigned the wounds to the two remaining Honor Guard (no invulnerable save), and managed to see them off before Mephiston tore the Sarge apart. The Razorback, now behind his Dev Squad with Plasma Cannons made him so nervous he used the next three rounds trying desperately to kill it with Mephiston, and finally did. However, roughly 200 points of "Vanilla" Marines, once granted a skill by Sicarious, eliminated or tied up 600 points of HQ, and caused enough of a distraction to completely change the battle.

Yeah, Cantor is very different than Sicarius. And I would rather have combat tactics to stubborn thanks to ATSKNF. The +1 attack is really good- but not as good for shooting as the LD 10 and only extends to a radius. Scoring Sternguard is only good if you use Stern (which I am not convinced is the best use of points and an Elite spot) and only really comes into its own if you want to dedicate 2 units to the 25 pt 3+ save Stern. (Cantor is probably the only reason I would take Stern.)

Sicarius's benefits are more general and don't require any special units, though they lean towards infantry over armor. With Pedro, they know what is coming- drop sterns, probably x2-3. With Sic, you can pick an ability at battletime based on what will be most useful.

OB is neat, though.

Sic is more resilient thanks to FNP and 2+ AS, but more pricey.

I think one of the big reasons people don't take sicarious is that his art sucks in the codex... he looks like he's pooping while standing.

As opposed to all of those battles where you can call a time out and take a dump in peace and quiet?

DarkHound wrote:Part of what makes SM so deadly now is Combat Tactics. It's painfully difficult to kill them in assault now, meaning you really don't need to spend points on counter assault units. Sicarius lets you keep this and encourages you to take more scoring units, and lets you get away with it.
Take some tanks, and the enemy will be hard pressed to outshoot you and even harder pressed to assault you.

I lost a game due to skillful application of combat tactics. I set up for a massed charge from my blood angels to his ultras, and shot him to thin the herd. He took enough casualties to book it, leaving me hanging, unable to charge. That left me as easy pickings. Don't underestimate this special rule.

If it is questionable never ever shoot a squad before charging it.

G

Indeed. It was a lesson I was glad to be reminded of outside of a tournament.

jmurph wrote:Yeah, Cantor is very different than Sicarius. And I would rather have combat tactics to stubborn thanks to ATSKNF. The +1 attack is really good- but not as good for shooting as the LD 10 and only extends to a radius. Scoring Sternguard is only good if you use Stern (which I am not convinced is the best use of points and an Elite spot) and only really comes into its own if you want to dedicate 2 units to the 25 pt 3+ save Stern. (Cantor is probably the only reason I would take Stern.)

Sicarius's benefits are more general and don't require any special units, though they lean towards infantry over armor. With Pedro, they know what is coming- drop sterns, probably x2-3. With Sic, you can pick an ability at battletime based on what will be most useful.

OB is neat, though.

Sic is more resilient thanks to FNP and 2+ AS, but more pricey.

Breaking from the enemy can be bad, if an enemy unit is parked nearby, or you are near the board edge, or need to be near an objective.

BoxANT wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

Pedro Cantor beats Sicarius hands down.

Cantor makes the whole army Stubborn, which is much better then LD 10 ( LD 10? Oh I caused 6 wounds...roll over a 4...aww a 5, now run away).

Cantor makes SternGuard a scoring unit. And he gives +1 attack to everyone within 12 inches. That is huge, especially if you charge the SternGuard who start off with a base 2. Give them the charge, or have a Vanguard squad nearby....

Make Cantor a central figure and all the Tac squads in the area get that +1.

Whil Sicarius gives flexibility, I find the bonuses given by Cantor to be more game changing, and also gives flexibility in that normal Tac squads are now much more deadly in HTH.

And Cantor has orbital bombardment.

Some people actually prefer Combat Tactics to Stubborn

Yes Cantor is the better choice, but only if you want to build a Sternguard force. For those of use who do not want to have multiple units of Sternguards (or any), then clearly Cantor is not "the best".

Most of the special characters basically force (or are at least more optimal) a specific army make up/play style. While this can be very powerful, it can also lead to more direct counters. Sicarius actual makes an army more flexable and adaptable, thus harder to counter (but of course, lacks the focused power of a list build around 1 ability).

1 squad with a skill does not =flexible. And you don't have to build a sternguard force....1 10 man squad is great.

DarkHound wrote:Part of what makes SM so deadly now is Combat Tactics. It's painfully difficult to kill them in assault now, meaning you really don't need to spend points on counter assault units. Sicarius lets you keep this and encourages you to take more scoring units, and lets you get away with it.
Take some tanks, and the enemy will be hard pressed to outshoot you and even harder pressed to assault you.

At some point you will need close combat ability to drive an opponent off an objective. This game is still all about HTH. And Sic does not let you take more scoring units then Cantor does.

At General: Like I said, Sic encourages you to take more Tac squads. He doesn't let you take a larger variety of scoring units than Cantor, but also as I said before he lets you get away with it by giving them an edge you'd find in elite choices for no extra points. Yes, the game is still very HTH oriented, but your tac squads are safe from heavy assault lists. A Rhino Tank shocking an objective is a good way to clear it out, and most units baby sitting an objective can't stand up to Space Marines in CC (baring Nurgle units and the like).

Mainly because once you field him in an Ultrasmurf army with Calgar, your opponent darkly mutters to himself on the insane amount of Ultramarine special characters.

(Tank Commander, Scout Seargent, Sicarius, Calgar, Cassius, Librarian etc.)

Cryonicleech wrote:Mainly because once you field him in an Ultrasmurf army with Calgar, your opponent darkly mutters to himself on the insane amount of Ultramarine special characters.

(Tank Commander, Scout Seargent, Sicarius, Calgar, Cassius, Librarian etc.)

I call that list The Saturday Morning Cartoon Space Marines. Wacky characters everywhere.

Honestly, I don't think this would be feasable or effective, but sure would be fun to play!