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Hey, looks like the same rumors we've seen time and again.

Ardensfax wrote:1) There is going to be an option for lesser C'Tan as standard HQ choices.

There are supposedly only four C'Tan left. We know of two and speculate on the state of two others. Exactly where do these "lesser" C'Tan fit into the current fluff? Papa C'Tan "getting busy" with the SoB?

I hope the Necrons get to keep their special rule. I like that it makes them unique. I do hope the Necron Codex comes out next year as I'd really like to start a 'cron army.

sonofruss wrote:

avantgarde wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:How is Phase Out not simple enough? You lose 25% of the Necrons in your army, you lose. Simple as that.

You can't expect gamers to understand percentages or fractions that gaks complex. Did you know 1/2 * 1/2 is 1/4, that doesn't make any sense! How can multiplying two numbers get a smaller number?!? Multiplying makes things bigger.

Because 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 you halve the halve so 1/2 of 1/2 = 1/4

He was being sarcastic and speaking to the "dumbing down" of the rules.

Breotan wrote:

Ardensfax wrote:1) There is going to be an option for lesser C'Tan as standard HQ choices.

There are supposedly only four C'Tan left. We know of two and speculate on the state of two others. Exactly where do these "lesser" C'Tan fit into the current fluff?

I would suspect that GW will be treating Necron C'Tan as akin to Chaos Powers.

That is, for each C'Tan:
- Greater Avatars might be like a C: Daemons Greater Daemon
- Lesser Avatars might be like a Marked C: CSM Daemon Prince

Essentially, this would turn the CSM model on it's head:
- vanilla / Marked / Cult HQs
- vanilla Troops

instead of CSM:
- vanilla / Marked HQs
- vanilla / Marked / Cult Troops

I for one hope that everyone gets their wish and necrons have no special rules at all and the monolith is reduced to a stationary model with 1 str 3 shot per turn at 6 in range for 600 points and the whole army suffers phase out if even one model is killed.

How dare an army based upon a theme of undeath be more difficult to kill than my beloved spaec mareens

40kenthusiast wrote:Hey, looks like the same rumors we've seen time and again.

Agreed. Really there is nothing new here.

If you want to get into debatehammer then what they need to address in the new codex are some problems.

1. Cheaper vehicle is needed. All or nothing choices aren't the best.

2. Movement. The whole fluff about necrons slowly marching around is all nice and dandy to read about. However speed and the flexibility of movement is king in 5th ed. Yes, you can teleport a few units around, too bad the "port yourself to safety tactic" move relies on chance (dice roll) to work. The other fast units (scarabs, destroyers) can't take objectives and the destroyers don't want to move far away from an orb anyways. SOME sort of flexibility needs to be brought in.

3. Make units that people want to take. Wraiths? Nice idea but too few and still die quickly. Flayed Ones? See: sub-par hth unit. Pariahs are deadly, but too expensive and don't count as Necrons. These units need to be reviewed.

4. More unit types.

5. Forget bringing gods to the battle field. Again, that's nice to read about but stupid in practice. "Hey, lets knock over that water tower! I KNOW! Lets bring GOD!" Pay for an effect on the battle field. Warped reality, spooky moving darkness, whatever. Looks like they've added some mind-bending horror aspects as of late (Planet strike special tactic, the Dragon warping reality like H.P.Lovecraft talks about), so why not go with some of that.

6. Move some of the ideas of Apocalypse into the army in a scaled down way. Energy barries that dull/negate shots, etc. Take a page from that book of creativity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breotan wrote:There are supposedly only four C'Tan left. We know of two and speculate on the state of two others. Exactly where do these "lesser" C'Tan fit into the current fluff? Papa C'Tan "getting busy" with the SoB?

More along the lines of bringing a Great Unclean one to the battle instead of bringing big old Nurgle himself.

40kenthusiast wrote:Hey, looks like the same rumors we've seen time and again.

So in about a week's time BoLS will copypasta them as new news! Awesome!

And the circle completes itself once more.

In that case, Een Beefaw lawk.

Cheese Elemental wrote:In that case, Een Beefaw lawk.

I wonder how many times you're gonna post that today.

BTT: Yah, I dont have anything to contribute

This is only the second time.

Ah, forgot that one on the last page, I'll edit the 1st post. The Phase Out rule is going away totally, according to the Store Manager. The PO rule was designed to balance the necrons because they were too strong. They are going to be weakened considerably, I think.

Ardensfax wrote:Ah, forgot that one on the last page, I'll edit the 1st post. The Phase Out rule is going away totally, according to the Store Manager. The PO rule was designed to balance the necrons because they were too strong. They are going to be weakened considerably, I think.

Aren't they weak enough?

Apparently not. Also, now you can't destroy vehicles with Glancing Hits any more, then the Gauss Weapon special rule has been dropped down the drain. At least they will lose phase out, thank god.

Cheese Elemental wrote:How is Phase Out not simple enough? You lose 25% of the Necrons in your army, you lose. Simple as that.

Can't decide whether that was sarcasm, or proof of why the rule needs to go ?

Moopy wrote:
1. Cheaper vehicle is needed. All or nothing choices aren't the best.

2. Movement. The whole fluff about necrons slowly marching around is all nice and dandy to read about. However speed and the flexibility of movement is king in 5th ed. Yes, you can teleport a few units around, too bad the "port yourself to safety tactic" move relies on chance (dice roll) to work. The other fast units (scarabs, destroyers) can't take objectives and the destroyers don't want to move far away from an orb anyways. SOME sort of flexibility needs to be brought in.

3. Make units that people want to take. Wraiths? Nice idea but too few and still die quickly. Flayed Ones? See: sub-par hth unit. Pariahs are deadly, but too expensive and don't count as Necrons. These units need to be reviewed.

I can agree with these, but all things would need to be balanced out, especially if Necrons are kept distinct from another brand of Space Marines.

Moopy wrote:
5. Forget bringing gods to the battle field. Again, that's nice to read about but stupid in practice. "Hey, lets knock over that water tower! I KNOW! Lets bring GOD!" Pay for an effect on the battle field. Warped reality, spooky moving darkness, whatever. Looks like they've added some mind-bending horror aspects as of late (Planet strike special tactic, the Dragon warping reality like H.P.Lovecraft talks about), so why not go with some of that.

Again, you and many people seem hng up on the term 'God.' If an Inquisitor of loose morals lands on Planet Xyzzy and convinces the primitive savages he's their god, does that mean there's no room for an IG with Inqusition HQ?

The C'Tan are effectively immortal, sure, but what is found on the tabletop is little more than an 'avatar' of the greater entity, which seems to be a force of nature that is impossible to control, but not nearly as wide reaching as the bigger 'gods' of the setting.

'God' is just a state of mind.

Alpharius wrote:
6) Really? So he's NOT on Mars and when he 'awakens' he won't throw the Imperium into the biggest civil war since the Heresy?

BrookM wrote:The Dragon sleeps under Mars, kept under watch by a guardian for ten millennia.

Ardensfax wrote:If you read the latter bit of Mechanicum carefully, you'll see that the Emperor bound the Dragon on Mars a long time ago, and the psychic presence sort of fuelled the technological creativity of the Tech-Priests, so basically the Dragon made the Imperium.

I thought that if the dragon escaped then the whole of the Martian priesthood would come crashing down. Mind you, if the Inquisition found what had happened, they would probably chuck an exterminatus at Mars!

Uh, guys? I've read MECHANICUM (And liked it quite a bit!).

My point number 6) reference involved sarcasm.

Of course, if they are going the "avatar of the C'tan" route, all bets are off.

How can anyone seriously think WBB is complicated?

I bet Hunt the Fallen and Greater Daemon possession was to complicated, and that dang confusing LatD list.

You know what? Assault is way to complicated, lets get rid of that.

Editisregard, didn't notice the second page

I don't play Necrons, but I won't mind if Phase Out goes away. No other army suffers from that penalty. This is hopeless wishlisting, but just get the rules and point costs right, and forget Phase Out. I think it's poor game design to have any army curl up and die because the player falls a few too many WBB rolls. I don't think it adds character, it is just a way to make the Necron have less fun.

The phase out rule is stupid.. It assumes the necrons are a GOOD army that is so powerful that other armies can only kill 75% of them.. This is entirely not the case thus the rule is pointless

As stated FNP is better than WBB in most situations.. Quitting over FNP is quite absurd, on the other hand please link me your ebay army and I will send you plenty of small violins!

dietrich wrote: I think it's poor game design to have any army curl up and die because the player falls a few too many WBB rolls.

As opposed to curl up and die due to a few to many failed saves, scatter rolls, reserve rolls etc?

I wouldn't be bothered about seeing phase out go, but the argument above seems a bit bizarre - the whole game largely revolves around the luck of the dice. As with anything it is something the necron player is fully aware of and can account for in army building and tactics.

Cheese Elemental wrote:How is Phase Out not simple enough? You lose 25% of the Necrons in your army, you lose. Simple as that.

Actually, it's 25% remaining. You have to lose 75% of your army before you will 'Phase Out'.

just imagine how tough the models would have to be to have a 'Phase Out' (drool) it'd be awesome. 'Movie Marines' vs Super Necrons. Sign me up!

Dude that army is not weak in any respects whatsoever! That army should be chopped and reformatted so that it isn't so gay. They need to keep that phase out rule because it equalizes what that army is capable of. How many times have you seen a necron army phase out? Hopefully when they are refitted they won't be so strong! The fact that a Necron player failing some WBB rolls and people trying to rationalize it and say that it shouldn't happen is lame. Remember that they also fail a generous 3+ save before that even happens. People complaining about cheese is so lame.

I must be in the company of wargaming gods here, I play a Necron player on a regular basis, we've played at least 50 games together, if not more, and in all of that I've only caused him to phase out once (1)

If a Necron player knows his rules, the army is tough as house bricks.......I'm praying that any future codex really brings the Necrons down a peg or two.....

Still having said that, the current Necron codex really does have a lot of character.

puree wrote:

dietrich wrote: I think it's poor game design to have any army curl up and die because the player falls a few too many WBB rolls.

As opposed to curl up and die due to a few to many failed saves, scatter rolls, reserve rolls etc?

I wouldn't be bothered about seeing phase out go, but the argument above seems a bit bizarre - the whole game largely revolves around the luck of the dice. As with anything it is something the necron player is fully aware of and can account for in army building and tactics.

Fair point. Maybe it's just that it seems so anti-climactic. It's not a matter of whether your 4 tactical marines can hold out against the 3 heavy bolters aimed at them - it's a matter that you still have roughly 25% of your army left, and you just stop playing. I just don't like the mechanism at all, it just doesn't seem to fit right properly into the game. I think the concept is fine, but why do IG fight to the last man (or Eldar - a dying race!) but automatons flee? No one else has that penalty. Especially considering that the Necron army can actually have more left on the board than the other player, and still Phase Out, it just doesn't seem right to me.

Hmmm seems like one of the old rumors is missing here... Necron Warriors will be given Slow and Purposefull..... which never made much sense to me, other than fluff-wise.

How can anyone seriously think WBB is complicated?

I'll bite, except I said needlessly complicated.

There's a whole page in the GW FAQ dedicated to WBB. And that doesn't cover all the issues. Nor does it speak to the amount of time TOs spend on Necron questions in general, and WBB in particular.

That is why in my opinion WBB is needlessly complicated.

Aren't they weak enough?

It's always amusingly odd hearing claims that Necrons are weak in 5th edition. They still have what amounts to two saving throws, their most common small arms can still at worst glance every vehicle in the game, and they have the most indestructible vehicle of any 40k army in the form of the Monolith.

And I'll have to agree that WBB is needlessly complicated, since I rarely hear it mentioned in games at game stores without a big debate over exactly how it works in certain situations. Feel No Pain would be a much more elegant way of giving Necrons a second saving throw.

Old rumors are old.
I like the idea of relentless FNP warriors with rending gauss rifles, make em' 18-20 pts a pop and ditch phase out.

Oh yeah, IB4L!