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I'm thinking conversion kits for Stompas. It's just crying out for that.

There is a lot about Grey Knights? Should I get my hopes up that there may be a sweet resin Grey Knight model released?

Majesticgoat wrote:There is a lot about Grey Knights? Should I get my hopes up that there may be a sweet resin Grey Knight model released?

No. They released "upgrade" kits for the Land Raider, Rhino, Dreadnaught, and Thunderhawk. They also have some resin Inquisitors and servitors. The closest thing they have to a Grey Knight model is the driver "upgrade" for the Land Raider/Rhino.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_DAEMONHUNTERS_AND_ORDO_XENOS_32.html

Moopy wrote:Agreed. Downloading w/o paying = stealing. Not cool at all. I really don't like the attitude of, "I want it but don't have the money for it = I'll steal it." If you can't afford it you can't afford it. End of story.

First of all: as of right now downloading from the internet is not illegal in my country (with the exception of games and software) as long as the copy you make is for your own personal use, and this is regardless of the (possibly illegal) source.

So no, legally I am not doing anything wrong at all.

Uploading is illegal btw.

Second, the ethical side of it: when I am interested in a product and downloading is the only/easiest way of knowing whether or not it is worth the price they are asking then that is the way to go as far as I'm concerned.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with the ability to afford either. That is a rather ignorant misconception. It has to do with being willing to spend a certain amount of money on a certain product.

The time that I bought CD's, DVD's etc without knowing whether I would like them, only to find out that they were nowhere near worth their price, is long past. Imo the music business and the movie business brought the scale of downloading that is happening these days upon themselves. As long as they keep stubbornly overpricing their products + trying to stop downloading instead of meeting consumers with more realistic prices to give those consumers better alternatives, then they can stick it. I think the music business has been doing a better job at it lately, but the DVD business not so much.

If I download something and I think the product is worth it's asking price then I will eventually buy the real thing most of the time. I do that with music, I do that with movies, and the same goes for things like Forge World books.

I'm not blindly buying something that I suspect might be overpriced, so without the download I would not have known and they would never have gotten my money. Likewise, if I don't like the product they wouldn't have gotten my money anyway.

And if someone is truly unable to afford something they would never have gotten that money either, so how do they lose anything by it? If an actual physical product would be taken away in a store it is a completely different story.

The bottom line is: my downloading actually benifits them and it benifits me as well by not letting myself get ripped off.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The book was nice, except that it was nothing but Tau fanwank from the word go. The final straw in the book for me was when the four Titans - something most Tau consider to be Imperial propaganda - are attacked by the special Tigershark (the Deus Ex Machina-Pattern Tiger Shark) which tears them a new one and the rest run away.

WTF????

Keep in mind that one of the main themes in IA3 was the systemic ineptitude that permeates the Empire. On Taros, the Empire basically stacked the deck against itself and it showed in how things played out behind the scenes as much as the poor leadership on the ground. The Tau were committed to taking and holding Taros. The Empire... had better things to do, I guess, similar to the US involvement in Viet Nam.

One thing that IA3 brought home for me was the fact that Space Marine chapters are really impossibly small to be effective in any sort of warfighting at all. This is partially due to a disparity between the rules of the game (40k) and the fluff (man-gods, each an army unto himself) which cannot really be reconciled on the tabletop. The Avenging Sons Space Marines sent to Taros in the beginning got spanked like a bunch of S&M hookers in schoolgirl uniforms and had to run with their tails between their legs - nearly an entire company lost. Now compare that to one company of Ultramarines basically killing an entire Tyranid hive fleet at Macragge and you begin to see the disparity.

Well now i know why my friend is starting a drop troop army now of all times
also i would like to see different orks than just Teef and Chopas

yeah,
Placed my order.
Can't Wait!

Panic...

I know it's too much to hope for but I would like to see some of the old IA units "updated" to the new guard codex for non-appocolypse use. At the minimum I'd like to see squadron rules for some of the IA variants of the Russ and the re-points costed varient of the chimera with all of the turret options that we've already seen in the Inquisition "update" be listed as a transport option of the guard (I want my AC back ).

Thing about Grey Knights their models are already great. They could use a variant Grey Knight Terminator model just because they are already so cool anyway. Say a squad of five that comes with the Brother Captain and full weapon options including Thunder Hammer/ Storm Shield.

I've got no problems with the GK models. I am currently working through painting an army for them now. I do with they had plastics or a few more poses. The same three guys to fill out their basic squads gets a little repettive. I am finding myself adding bits like purity seals, tabards and scrolls just to break the appearence up. Next, I think I am also going to get some of the muzzle flash packs, just to try and make guys more different. I was just hoping for a little more from FW for them.

The varients for the razorback and raider are nice and all. I was kind of hoping though for at least a FW army list though to try and make them a little more 5th ed compatable. maybe also a couple of characters to give them some commanders. Just something troop wise from FW to get some new faces in the army.

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Morals are subjective.

Laws aren't.

Moopy wrote:People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's nothing more or less than that: your personal opinion.

Moopy wrote:

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Oh, so now it's about morality. Before it was about the law, but when he pointed out that it wasn't illegal in his country, that downloading is obviously not considered stealing there, it turns into "Shut up, it's still wrong, you're scum!"

"Whatever."

I also think he had a good point, I much prefer the "try before you buy" technique since, like him, I don't like getting fethed over. I'd like to preview an album before I spend my hard-earned cash on it, I'd like to see what a book is like before I buy it and commit to reading it, and I like to test-drive a car before I sell my soul to the devil and bleed cash for years to come. In music's case there are ways to do that without resorting to downloading the material, bands often have MySpace pages where they preview songs and stuff, but more often than not they play the singles and then you're left wondering if that was the best they had to offer or if the entire album is actually worth the money (how many times have you bought an album after hearing one or two songs, and then been disappointed to find the rest is filler?). What in the feth is wrong with wanting to know what it is you're buying, how is that "immoral"? In my opinion that's just common sense, which admittedly seems to be going out of style, but nevertheless...

Like TBD said, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm offended by the fact that you clearly didn't even read his post, either that or you did and just blew it off entirely without thinking twice about it, refusing to look at things from another perspective and just reaffirming everyone that you are indeed "right" and he is "wrong".

SO besides arguing the legality of downloading in other countries you're all saying that I should buy these.

Now which get Vraks 3 for the nifty extras and pick up the rest later, or buy the set and not get the extras?

Buy the set. You don't need the posters.

Still a hefty price... 130 quid is quite a chunk for three books. Very tempting though. Im a fluff whore :(

I own every IA book. They're worth it, believe me, and that's even after I acknowledge that A). They're full of mistakes and B). Warwick is a copypasta whore who wouldn't know a good rule if it came up and bit him in the face.

The triple book set comes with the posters. You save five pounds. Pretty good deal, really. Shame they did not do some kind of a reprint although I suppose it is just as well.

Sidstyler wrote:

Moopy wrote:

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Oh, so now it's about morality. Before it was about the law, but when he pointed out that it wasn't illegal in his country, that downloading is obviously not considered stealing there, it turns into "Shut up, it's still wrong, you're scum!"

Yea, I did. He admitted that uploading copies of books was illegal. So he chose to take advantage of something that was HE KNEW was done illegally. I'll call that pretty morally wretched.

Glad you pointed that out.

As for that "try-before-you-buy" argument- that's a self justifying excuse to do something they don't let you do. You can't justify the issue (in this case downloading and illegally uploaded book) because you somehow feel entitled to do it. All the other things you mentioned: music, cars etc... have options to try out, but in this case, the book doesn't, so you'll have to find a place that has it and ask to see it. Just because it isn't the most convenient way of doing things it doesn't give you cart blanche to do whatever you want. That all important sense self entitlement is nothing more than immaturity.

If you don't like the way a system works, work with the publishers to get what you want. Ask for them to create something like a downloadable pdf that contains a section of the book. Have your friends write them for the same thing- tell the manufacture what you want. But don't do things just because you somehow have convinced yourself that it's ok to do so.

FETH morality, take it to the OT forum if it is such a hot topic up for discussion.

I've just placed my pre-order, so here goes nothing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Buy the set. You don't need the posters.

Will do then, thanks HBMC.

The good thing is now after you've finished reading the second book you can move right onto the third. The reason that's important is that the second book is like many part 2's in a trilogy - no real beginning and no real end. That and the book served as a giant hard-cover advertisement for the new Reaver Titan kit. Waiting a year for Part 2 only to find that I had to wait another year to get the actual conclusion wasn't all that fun, and while the Red Scorpion stuff in part 2 is good, it wasn't worth a year wait.

But you won't have that problem. Treat the three books as a single giant book and it'll work better.

yeah,
Half the point of FW not openly allowing downloads of the book is that once you've read the fluff, half the reason/point in buying the book is gone. All that's left is data sheets, most of which you'll never use.

When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing. These books are a luxury item, it's not something your entitled to. If you want to find out, take a punt and find out if imperial armour is for you... Worst case if you hate them you can sell it on ebay and get 70% of your money back!

Panic...

H.B.M.C. wrote:The good thing is now after you've finished reading the second book you can move right onto the third. The reason that's important is that the second book is like many part 2's in a trilogy - no real beginning and no real end. That and the book served as a giant hard-cover advertisement for the new Reaver Titan kit. Waiting a year for Part 2 only to find that I had to wait another year to get the actual conclusion wasn't all that fun, and while the Red Scorpion stuff in part 2 is good, it wasn't worth a year wait.

But you won't have that problem. Treat the three books as a single giant book and it'll work better.

True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat. So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

Panic wrote:yeah,
Half the point of FW not openly allowing downloads of the book is that once you've read the fluff, half the reason/point in buying the book is gone. All that's left is data sheets, most of which you'll never use.

When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing. These books are a luxury item, it's not something your entitled to. If you want to find out, take a punt and find out if imperial armour is for you... Worst case if you hate them you can sell it on ebay and get 70% of your money back!

Panic...

That is very true.

BrotherStynier wrote:True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat.

Over three books? Nah! Buy all of them in one go, that's my suggestion. The Anphelion Project is a great book.

BrotherStynier wrote:So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

Well, look, they're Forge World books. As long as you accept the fact that Warwick is incapable of writing a decent set of rules you'll be fine. Without a doubt 80% of the units will be overpriced/underpowered, 10% will be underpriced/overpowered and the remaining 10% will be useful and viable choices in any army. For every Cyclops Demo Vehicle or Heavy Mortar Battery there's a slew of Malcadors, Machariuses, Leman Russ Conquerors, Ogryn Berzerkers and Bombards.

Panic wrote:When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing.

They're sealed when you get them shipped to you as well, but I get what you're saying.

Oh I can already feel the slicing if I buy more than just the box set right now.

So with a little bit of doctoring the rules will work fine, my group enjoys making units actually worth the price, or upping the price if it needs it. Sometimes...

BrotherStynier wrote:

True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat. So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

I thought that the Chaos lists were about on par with the LaTD mini dex that came out a few years ago. There are always a few units that aren't worth taking because the abilities don't match the cost.

The armies definitely fit the stories, but might not always work well in the 40k system. DKK may look great, but a mass IG infantry charge in a world of bugs and orks= Lots of port mortem medals handed out. On the other hand the artillery aspect is very nice. The armies in the books are best suited for fighting the other armies in the same book; the chaos list vs the Krieg list. I've played a few games with my friends and that's been pretty fun.

BrotherStynier wrote:So with a little bit of doctoring the rules will work fine, my group enjoys making units actually worth the price, or upping the price if it needs it. Sometimes...

Easily. Some things you can't really solve (I can't think of a way to make the Conqueror useful using the current Russ archetype in the IG Codex), but a lot of them come down to points values (make the Macharius the same cost as a Land Raider and its instantly viable).

If you do end up getting Cyclops Demo Vehicles, I suggest making them T4(5) W2 Sv3+ rather than AV10 vehicles. Why? They're about the same size as Epic Land Raiders, yet they're vehicles, meaning they can't hide behind infantry... which is silly for something so small. Also make them not worth any KP's. It's absurd (the Adepticon FAQ did this I believe) to make them worth 1 KP when they explode.

Which brings up another point, only this new IA and the one before it were written with 5th Ed in mind, and while the first two have got FAQ updates (wierdly, FW has better FAQ support than GW), they weren't written for the current ruleset, so you'd probably have to do some tweaking anyway.

And don't buy Imperial Armour Apocalypse. It's a shocking book filled with more than the usual amount of mistakes. The Krieg Deathrider formation has no special rules, yet you pay extra points for it - one of the more egregious examples of Warwick's copypasta-disastas. There's a Marine formation that gives the Marine army Flank March and all you have to do is buy a TechMarine + 3 Dreads (and pay 50 points). The formation doesn't have Flank March (as you'd expect it to say were it written by someone who proofreads their work), the formation gives the Marine player Flank March, for his whole army, so he doesn't even have to pick it as one of his choices. Amazing...