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The captain can pay 10 pts to get the hellfire rounds for any bolt weapon he is carrying including a storm bolter or bolt pistol, it looses the rapid fire for either the assault 2 or pistol respectively. this is according to the employees at my local GW.

You didnt do anything dumb bro, its just that asking someone for clarification on a question, listening to their answer and then telling them "thanks but ill ask someone else" is really kind of rude. Also keep in mind that redshirts are salesmen, not referees. Their job is to get you to buy a couple more paints and brushes, and check to make sure you have enough glue and primer, and remind you about the latest white dwarf. They are there to work, they dont get paid to correctly interpret rules.

ManwithIronHands wrote:The captain can pay 10 pts to get the hellfire rounds for any bolt weapon he is carrying including a storm bolter or bolt pistol, it looses the rapid fire for either the assault 2 or pistol respectively. this is according to the employees at my local GW.

-Dies inside-

Your Local Employees at games Workshop are -Cough- Misinformed. Hellfire rounds may only be used in a Bolter or the Bolter half of a Combi Weapon. Not a Storm Bolter/Bolt Pistol/Heavy Bolter/Hurricane Bolter/Pineapple Bolter, just plain old Bolters.

ManwithIronHands wrote:The captain can pay 10 pts to get the hellfire rounds for any bolt weapon he is carrying including a storm bolter or bolt pistol, it looses the rapid fire for either the assault 2 or pistol respectively. this is according to the employees at my local GW.

Page 100, in the section Other Equipment, under Hellfire Rounds, and I quote "Note that Hellfire Rounds can only be used in a boltgun". Not a storm bolter, not a bolt pistol. It directly says what they can be used in.

Edit: Curse you Gwar! And after reading your edit, I am now imagining a bolter that shoots pineapples. Mmmm....

Gwar! wrote:

ManwithIronHands wrote:The captain can pay 10 pts to get the hellfire rounds for any bolt weapon he is carrying including a storm bolter or bolt pistol, it looses the rapid fire for either the assault 2 or pistol respectively. this is according to the employees at my local GW.

-Dies inside-

Your Local Employees at games Workshop are -Cough- Misinformed. Hellfire rounds may only be used in a Bolter or the Bolter half of a Combi Weapon. Not a Storm Bolter/Bolt Pistol/Heavy Bolter/Hurricane Bolter/Pineapple Bolter, just plain old Bolters.

Like I said, salesmen. They make gak up just to hurry through to the part where you buy something, or to move on to someone who will. I should know. I used to be one.

Falconlance wrote:You didnt do anything dumb bro, its just that asking someone for clarification on a question, listening to their answer and then telling them "thanks but ill ask someone else" is really kind of rude. Also keep in mind that redshirts are salesmen, not referees. Their job is to get you to buy a couple more paints and brushes, and check to make sure you have enough glue and primer, and remind you about the latest white dwarf. They are there to work, they dont get paid to correctly interpret rules.

QFT.

Happygrunt, you're absolutely right. We are sometimes very quick to judge and that is not the best of traits to have. I was definitely hasty in labeling you the way I did and I realize that your intentions were not what I thought they were.

Falconlance is correct, there was nothing wrong with your original question, it was your follow-up response that made it seem like we were wasting our time (which is somewhat ironic since, for me, Dakka is more often than not a fabulous way to waste all sorts of time!) giving you our thoughts on how to answer your question.

Regardless, there was lots of unnecessary snark here and I for one apologise for my part in it.

Hope to still see you posting with gusto!

DoW

I still think it is mighty rude to ask for help and then in effect say "No thank you I never wanted it anyway".

Gwar! wrote:I still think it is mighty rude to ask for help and then in effect say "No thank you I never wanted it anyway".

Agreed. But two wrongs don't make a right. We're all on the same page now (hopefully) so all is well.

Bunnehs and kittehs and rainbows and BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

DoW

Eternal Newb wrote:Edit: Curse you Gwar! And after reading your edit, I am now imagining a bolter that shoots pineapples. Mmmm....

Really? I immediately thought of a pineapple firing bolt shells... either way i'm picking up pineapple juice tomorrow...

Gwar! wrote:

ManwithIronHands wrote:The captain can pay 10 pts to get the hellfire rounds for any bolt weapon he is carrying including a storm bolter or bolt pistol, it looses the rapid fire for either the assault 2 or pistol respectively. this is according to the employees at my local GW.

-Dies inside-

Your Local Employees at games Workshop are -Cough- Misinformed. Hellfire rounds may only be used in a Bolter or the Bolter half of a Combi Weapon. Not a Storm Bolter/Bolt Pistol/Heavy Bolter/Hurricane Bolter/Pineapple Bolter, just plain old Bolters.

yeah I was misinformed they said a storm bolter counts as a bolt gun, I generaly use bolters or combis on my captains anyway.

Falconlance wrote:You didnt do anything dumb bro, its just that asking someone for clarification on a question, listening to their answer and then telling them "thanks but ill ask someone else" is really kind of rude. Also keep in mind that redshirts are salesmen, not referees. Their job is to get you to buy a couple more paints and brushes, and check to make sure you have enough glue and primer, and remind you about the latest white dwarf. They are there to work, they dont get paid to correctly interpret rules.

According to C:SM page 100, hell fire rounds have a rapid fire profile and not assault 2 or pistol.

Even if it could use the special ammunition which i dont think it can, each special ammunition type says it is "rapid fire" therefore, you would get no additional benefit using a storm bolter anyways.

I think the rules about this are clear and have been stated by fellow dakkaites. However, I just noticed something interesting and now I want to throw some fluff in here.

In the many threads arguing if storm bolters and bolters fire interchangeable ammunition - storm bolters just firing normal bolter ammo at a higher rate of fire - there was fluff-wise no objection to this, only RAW objections.

Now, what I noticed was: While a normal boltgun, which everyone of you knows, has a breechblock clearly meant to eject spent bolt casings, a stormbolter does not feature a breechblock or any kind of other visible device to eject spent casings.
Therefore, I would conjecture that storm bolters fire caseless bolt ammunition! This idea is supported by the fact that, if you want rapid-firing weaponry, caseless ammunition (if technically possible in your design) has the great advantage of missing casings that do not need to be ejected through a breech in the weapon, simplifying the mechanism, which can therefore be designed for a higher RoF.

Now it is reasonable to assume that hellfire rounds come in only as cased ammunition, for deeper technical reasons we don't need to ponder about. Therefore, here is a fluff reason why hellfire ammunition cannot be used in storm bolters!

So, while this is not really useful in a RAW YDMC discussion, I always like to see fluff reasons behind rules, so I thought I'd tell you about my theory.

I get the hilarious mental image of a sternguard veteran trying to make a vulkan mega-bolter fire special ammunition XD

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:I get the hilarious mental image of a sternguard veteran trying to make a vulkan mega-bolter fire special ammunition XD

.... 15 shots of blast weaponry with rending death (if i recall correctly) or Rapid fire special ammo ..... sure you can fire the special ammo in vulkan mega-bolter

15 shots of non-rending but Marine killing death, and not blast - just assault cannon strength shots.

nosferatu1001 wrote:15 shots of non-rending but Marine killing death, and not blast - just assault cannon strength shots.

ah that's it ... but anyway point still stands if you want to swap that with the special ammos profile be my guest

Witzkatz wrote:I think the rules about this are clear and have been stated by fellow dakkaites. However, I just noticed something interesting and now I want to throw some fluff in here.

In the many threads arguing if storm bolters and bolters fire interchangeable ammunition - storm bolters just firing normal bolter ammo at a higher rate of fire - there was fluff-wise no objection to this, only RAW objections.

Now, what I noticed was: While a normal boltgun, which everyone of you knows, has a breechblock clearly meant to eject spent bolt casings, a stormbolter does not feature a breechblock or any kind of other visible device to eject spent casings.
Therefore, I would conjecture that storm bolters fire caseless bolt ammunition! This idea is supported by the fact that, if you want rapid-firing weaponry, caseless ammunition (if technically possible in your design) has the great advantage of missing casings that do not need to be ejected through a breech in the weapon, simplifying the mechanism, which can therefore be designed for a higher RoF.

Now it is reasonable to assume that hellfire rounds come in only as cased ammunition, for deeper technical reasons we don't need to ponder about. Therefore, here is a fluff reason why hellfire ammunition cannot be used in storm bolters!

So, while this is not really useful in a RAW YDMC discussion, I always like to see fluff reasons behind rules, so I thought I'd tell you about my theory.

I like your theory a lot, but I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Not sure how relevant it would be, but if you check out the old rule book (the one directly prior to the current book) on page 60 they have a cool depiction of several different kinds of weapons. Each of the types of bolter shells are shown and they are all clearly cased ammunition with the same propellant but different payloads. (Also, interestingly enough, the lasgun portion talks about hot-shot lasguns...)

Also, as far as the description of a Storm Bolter goes (at least in the IG codex) it is described as "a pair of linked bolters" and not a different kind of weapon altogether.

Not terribly important either, I have to admit (since I still don't think you should be able to load up anything that has 'bolt' in its name with the special stuff), but a bit of a counter-argument on the fluff side of things.

DoW

Witzkatz wrote:Now, what I noticed was: While a normal boltgun, which everyone of you knows, has a breechblock clearly meant to eject spent bolt casings, a stormbolter does not feature a breechblock or any kind of other visible device to eject spent casings.
Therefore, I would conjecture that storm bolters fire caseless bolt ammunition! This idea is supported by the fact that, if you want rapid-firing weaponry, caseless ammunition (if technically possible in your design) has the great advantage of missing casings that do not need to be ejected through a breech in the weapon, simplifying the mechanism, which can therefore be designed for a higher RoF.

I'd just like to say that you think far too seriously about our little plastic men - keep it up!

Tri wrote:ah that's it ... but anyway point still stands if you want to swap that with the special ammos profile be my guest

One situation i can think of is T7 carnifex with 2+ save: you're better of wounding on 2's as it gets an armour save from the normal VMB shells ANDy ou would be wounding on 5s. Ditto Trygon and hierophant as well, at a guess...

Witzkatz wrote:
Now, what I noticed was: While a normal boltgun, which everyone of you knows, has a breechblock clearly meant to eject spent bolt casings, a stormbolter does not feature a breechblock or any kind of other visible device to eject spent casings.
Therefore, I would conjecture that storm bolters fire caseless bolt ammunition! This idea is supported by the fact that, if you want rapid-firing weaponry, caseless ammunition (if technically possible in your design) has the great advantage of missing casings that do not need to be ejected through a breech in the weapon, simplifying the mechanism, which can therefore be designed for a higher RoF.

Even firearms that use caseless ammunition would need an ejection port, as ejecting a loaded but unspent round is the only way to make the weapon 'safe'.

The most basic weapon a Space Marine has is a fully automatic rocket launcher built to be wielded in close combat. What part of that is "safe?"

DarkHound wrote:The most basic weapon a Space Marine has is a fully automatic rocket launcher built to be wielded in close combat. What part of that is "safe?"

Built... and basic, those are the only safe parts of that statement

nosferatu1001 wrote:
One situation i can think of is T7 carnifex with 2+ save: you're better of wounding on 2's as it gets an armour save from the normal VMB shells ANDy ou would be wounding on 5s. Ditto Trygon and hierophant as well, at a guess...

Trygons and heriophaunts are even 6s with the hellfire rounds, stupid gargantuan creature rule

Although the idea of caseless ammunition seems viable, bolter rounds are described (fluff wise) as cased ammunition.

The issue isn't about this in my mind. Its about what device(like a magazine, stripper clip, or belt) feeds the ammo into the weapon.

Another one of my "pointless" real life examples:

2 weapons, the G36 and the M4 both fire a 5.56 cartrige. However, they will not "feed" from each other's magazines.

In fact, the most desperate thing a soldier can do is unload each individual round from one magazine and load it back into another. This could take ages, especially if yourgetting shot at.

brother_zach wrote:In fact, the most desperate thing a soldier can do is unload each individual round from one magazine and load it back into another. This could take ages, especially if yourgetting shot at.

I've actually found being shot at to be rather motivational at times! I guarantee I'd load/unload rounds faster than if I was sitting on my couch.

Back to reality (well, sort of), I agree that if a weapon is designed to accept a specific type of magazine, it won't necessarily accept another. But the whole point of being able to load the rounds from one magazine and into another requires both the calibre and length of the cartridge to be equal. This means you would be able to fire the same .75 calibre ammunition from a bolter, pop out a few rounds, and then load them into a storm bolter magazine.

The only thing stopping you is the rules

DoW

The way I see it, any normal person with a full mag isn't going to pop it out, and try and get "cooler ammo" when he's got explosive tipped miniature rockets in his weapon.

Havn't been to combat yet, but I don know when I go I'm not going to dare try this. I'll just ask (or order, if I'm anything like this mighty captain) to shoot at what I need the special ammo for.

Before we get warned by mods about going off topic, the rule stands. A captain can't bum some cooler ammo off of his sternguard

brother_zach wrote:The way I see it, any normal person with a full mag isn't going to pop it out, and try and get "cooler ammo" when he's got explosive tipped miniature rockets in his weapon.

Havn't been to combat yet, but I don know when I go I'm not going to dare try this. I'll just ask (or order, if I'm anything like this mighty captain) to shoot at what I need the special ammo for.

Before we get warned by mods about going off topic, the rule stands. A captain can't bum some cooler ammo off of his sternguard

I think most people would argue that the Space Marine battle preparations would include such things as loading ammunition, blessing it, bumming it, etc. Granted it's pure fluff, but if someone really wanted to house rule something along those lines I doubt I'd have a problem with it.

This being said, I agree. I wouldn't recommend trying to argue fluff with your next TO...

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

This being said, I agree. I wouldn't recommend trying to argue fluff with your next TO...

And for this I do apologize.

I catch myself doing ths more than often. When I started with 3rd edition, it was very much explained to me (or at least I thought it was) in a sort of fluffy manner.

I don't think so