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I'm more interested in knowing or estimating how good is Lucius' armor of shrieking souls at getting impacted by the gorechild (Kharn's axe), because the fight pretty much depends on Lucius not getting cut in half on the first swing.

Dakkadood wrote:I'm more interested in knowing or estimating how good is Lucius' armor of shrieking souls at getting impacted by the gorechild (Kharn's axe), because the fight pretty much depends on Lucius not getting cut in half on the first swing.

In dueling, the idea is not to get hit in the first place.

also, i believe we are talking about these guys in fluff terms, not in the watered-down versions that are used in game.

Kharn could probably kill Lucius with the sheer force of his hate.

If the two fight I think their respected gods would watch and amp up their powers leading to a draw. If one *had* to die it would be lucius. But Kharn's soul would be too resistant for lucius to "break through" causing the death of both for "failing" their Gods...

Yeah but like tortoiseer said, Lucius lives(and dies) for just the duels, nothing else. Hes definitely gotten into more duels against better people, so give him friggin props.
yeah, 1v1 lucius would win hands down. he lives(or not) to teach crazy mother****ers like Kharne to calm the crap down, or they get owned. Lucius is faster and has better technique than kharn, so one slip for kharn and its over.
if kharn somehow won though, i dont think that slaanesh could come to the rescue.

If Lucius gets stomped on by a Banelord of Khorne after he won the fight, Is he screwed? If he cant take over Kharn's body I sure as hell would think he cant overpower a daemon.

Well, in game turns, Kharn wins - 2+ to hit, lots of dice, Game Over.

In fluff terms - its hard to say - pre siege of Terra, I would say Lucius, but post siege/total insanity, I would say Kharn - Lucius is a master duelist, but Kharn's joint ability to kill anything and not really die to almost anything brings him through

Lords, there is math behind that, and this is it:
If Lucius is on the charge, he inflicts two wounds between his Siren and sword. Kharn swings back for 1 wound. Lucius wins with 1 wound remaining the following turn.
If Kharn gets the charge, he inflicts three wounds between his pistol and axe, and recieves one in return.

Lucius draws out the battle and wins with finesse, while Kharn runs Lucius down, but it is completely dependant on the charge.
By the way, the odds of Lucius' armor kicking in and doing a wound are 7% (useless thing that it is).

DarkHound wrote:Lords, there is math behind that, and this is it:
If Lucius is on the charge, he inflicts two wounds between his Siren and sword. Kharn swings back for 1 wound. Lucius wins with 1 wound remaining the following turn.
If Kharn gets the charge, he inflicts three wounds between his pistol and axe, and recieves one in return.

Lucius draws out the battle and wins with finesse, while Kharn runs Lucius down, but it is completely dependant on the charge.
By the way, the odds of Lucius' armor kicking in and doing a wound are 7% (useless thing that it is).

For every topic there is a relevant mathhammer

If we are going to argue Kharn and Lucius, why not bring in Typhus and Ahriman? Of the four, who do you think would win?

No, I refuse to do that math on that. You want to know why? It would mean factoring this
(Plaguebringer:
5.5% chance not to take a wound
11% chance to take a wound
16% -> 3 kills
16% -> 3.4 kills
16% -> 3.9 kills
16% -> 4.4 kills
16% -> 4.9 kills,
plus readjusting it for invuls)
into every swing Typhus makes. On top of that we have to worry about Ahriman instant deathing Lucius and Typhus, plus any combination of powers he'll throw out, and other strangeness.

My money is on Ahriman. He has the highest invul, and will instantly kill anyone at range and in close combat (except Kharn in close combat). Well, if Ahriman can't instant death Kharn, who will win in close combat (this is the math I'm willing to do)? Since Kharn isn't dead from a Bolt of Change, we'll assume he got the charge (but Ahriman has Warptime). Kharn gets two wounds on the charge, and Ahriman swings back for 2 wounds. The following turn they kill each other.

On the charge, Ahriman kills everyone. Recieving the charge, Ahriman kills everyone but dies to Kharn in the process. EDIT: Actually, if Typhus rolls a 5 or 6 he kills Ahriman on the charge but, like Kharn, dies doing it.

I like to think of my little space mans in terms of coolness and awesomeness, not in math-ness. I like the crazy mad one who breaks things with his hands and can't be killed because he's just too mad. I don't like the one who cuts himself for fun and wears pink armor. He probably listens to My Chemical Romance and thinks Twilight was written with him in mind(as the girl). In my mind, Kharn always wins, all the time.

Railguns wrote:I like to think of my little space mans in terms of coolness and awesomeness, not in math-ness. I like the crazy mad one who breaks things with his hands and can't be killed because he's just too mad. I don't like the one who cuts himself for fun and wears pink armor. He probably listens to My Chemical Romance and thinks Twilight was written with him in mind(as the girl). In my mind, Kharn always wins, all the time.

This puts in all in perspective for me...

is not luciuses curse a sorcerous magic? AND kharn is khornes little helper and khorne has a special rule that makes his daemons or champions? immune to sorcery

physcosamatic wrote:is not luciuses curse a sorcerous magic? AND kharn is khornes little helper and khorne has a special rule that makes his daemons or champions? immune to sorcery

Yes and no.

Yes, many of khorne's greatest champions, and a lot of his daemons, have a huge resistance to magical attacks. Flesh Hounds come to mind. But these are only barriers, and powerful enough psykers can topple them...

Isnt gorechild a power weapon that means that Lucius cant take armors saves which means that Armor of Shreiking Souls cannot work on Kharn.

Touche

Well if we must go into fluff Khorne is a more powerful god than Slanneesh ever was
so in the end Kharn would win i must say just because of Khornes intense power
and besides i think these days Kharn could best his primarch even

ChristmasMarine wrote:

physcosamatic wrote:is not luciuses curse a sorcerous magic? AND kharn is khornes little helper and khorne has a special rule that makes his daemons or champions? immune to sorcery

Yes and no.

Yes, many of khorne's greatest champions, and a lot of his daemons, have a huge resistance to magical attacks. Flesh Hounds come to mind. But these are only barriers, and powerful enough psykers can topple them...

Yes, for example Njal the Stormcaller killed (banished) a Bloodthirster with a massive lightning bolt. He then scattered the remaining lesser daemons with a blizzard. Khorne's blessing didn't help them against a psycher of his might.

Addicted to Bleach wrote:Isnt gorechild a power weapon that means that Lucius cant take armors saves which means that Armor of Shreiking Souls cannot work on Kharn

Any armor or invulnerable saves he makes activates the armor.

Battle Brother Loken wrote:Well if we must go into fluff Khorne is a more powerful god than Slanneesh ever was
so in the end Kharn would win i must say just because of Khornes intense power
and besides i think these days Kharn could best his primarch even

The Great Game is not stable. The gods are constantly getting an edge, over-expanding themselves and being pushed back, but because they are Chaos they'll never reach equalibrium. The Great Game will last forever. Slaanesh destablized the Great Game when he was born; he was almost stronger than all the other gods combined, but they eventually beat him back. Actually, given that, it would depend on what day of the week they fought. Even Tzeentch and Nurgle would have an impact on the fight, so we'd have to see how large the god's territories were.

By the way, Kharn may be good but he has nothing on Angron, especially after he ascended to Daemonhood. The strength and speed of a Primarch can't be matched by a Space Marine, and Kharn is only that.

Well, you can call the Great Game as a sort of dynamic equilibrium. All of the forces work against each other and ultimately keep the balance of power as it is.

Lightning bolts and hurricanes seem like physical forces more than sorcery, so a lightning bolt is still a lightning bolt, psychicly induced or not.

DarkHound wrote:By the way, Kharn may be good but he has nothing on Angron, especially after he ascended to Daemonhood. The strength and speed of a Primarch can't be matched by a Space Marine, and Kharn is only that.

Haha, that's true, but another 'kettle of fish' altogether, as the saying goes. I remember a thread on some forum where the debate was Angron vs Leman Russ. Now that was a hotly disputed one...

As for Kharn vs Lucius, I've 'known' Kharn since 2E WH40K, and I just like him more as a character, so I am going to be biased toward him. That said, with Lucius' reputation as a master duelist I cannot overlook him as much as I would like to.

I ask only ONE thing - that Kharn not be subject to being trapped by Lucius' armour. I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and say "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA".
It would be just too pitiful and pathetic an end to Kharn's existence and while I KNOW that is the whole point of Lucius's armour, I refuse to see it happening to Kharn. Seeing as how much Khorne wuvs his wittle Kharny, I think it would require Slaanesh to expend a stupidly huge portion of his own power to enforce it upon him.

edited for quote fail

that seems to be the general consensus, Kharn would not be subject to Lucius's pansy attack, as Khorne is having none of that stuff...guess he'll just have to find a nearby cultist lol

Neither would win, only kill the other, if that makes sense. Kharn will win the fight, and kill Lucius, but the Slaanesh, will pop up, take some cultist, and make the cultist Lucius, however if, somehow Lucius manages to beat Kharn, Khorne will revive him, leading to neither winning

I would go with Kharn winning. Khorne HATES slaanesh and I am sure he will be damned if he sits back an allows Kharn to lose or even be turned into the very enemy he hates so much (Slaanesh) aka his younger eldar made cross dressing emo brother....

plus from my understanding Khorne is far stronger then Slaanesh

plus lucius is a sissy you slap him he falls down and comes back just to get slaped in the face again

To go back to the other two guys (Typhus and Ahriman) I would give a great deal of consideration to Typhus, so long as we were assuming that their patrons paid attention to the fight.

Nurgle can become far more powerful than all the other gods for limited periods when plague and disease is rampant in the universe - and both the Zombie Plague and Nurgle's Rot are going crazy in the wake of the 13th Crusade. I'd say Nurgle's fortunes are definitely on the rise right now.

I wouldn't underestimate Typhus either, he is more than capable of smiting most people outright with that force weapon of his. Or Ahriman for that same fact, combined with warptime, he's a close combat bad boy. If Kharn gets the charge though... He hits and wounds marines on 2+.... Its a no hope in hell situation.

this is kind of random but i dont want to threadomancy the other one
if lucius mortally wounds anyone and that person mages to kill him and then they die of the wound he caused would lucius come back?

Neh, if Lucius fights as a duelist he'll get torn apart. Kharn will resort to punches, holds, biting, and other dirty tactics as he cares only for the slaughter. He's too much of a raving psychopath to participate in a regulated duel, much less follow rules of combat.

deffskullz wrote:this is kind of random but i dont want to threadomancy the other one
if lucius mortally wounds anyone and that person mages to kill him and then they die of the wound he caused would lucius come back?

There are so many holes in his eternal life spell that we should either assume Slaanesh would move his soul to a random cultist or that he has been dead for ages. This example is one of the few ones that should have been blatantly obvious to Slaaensh.

The betrayer, because no one like lucius not even lucius.