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Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Call me nuts, but why would you EVER DS Obitz? I've seen a few people mention it, but why waste those shots?

Against armies that have a good chance of frying Oblits like IG Aircav with Vendetta Spams (on average its 1 dead Oblit per Vendetta) or ones where all you are facing is a wall of AV14. Lascannons aren't that great against the really big stuff but a few Meltas/Multi-Meltas will usually make short work of it.

Just bring some infantry and Mech up. CSM are versatile enough to be able to deal with a lot of threats. Try out the cult choices (i.e. Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Thousands Sons, and Noise Marines) as they all are great at their intended role, whereas CSM squads are multi-purpose.

I'd still field them versus the IG as long as they had a nice hiding spot at the beginning of the game (not hard with only 3 models). Against AV14 you have a point. That's one of the few cases where Chaos will outnumber it's opponent

Considering the Imperial Guard have some grotesque Barrage Ordnance, it might be an idea to have them start off the board entirely...

Nurglitch wrote:Considering the Imperial Guard have some grotesque Barrage Ordnance, it might be an idea to have them start off the board entirely...

I guess I just don't like the idea of waiting til turn 3 or so to see them. If they have said barrage ordinance then you really need crap try to shoot that stuff down sooner than later.

Maybe, but since all my attempts at matching the range and firepower of Imperial Ordnance remind me of similar attempts to match the range and firepower of Ork Lootas, except without Land Raiders to advance in.

I'm going with the Deep Strike assault, starting with as must as possible in reserve and coming out of hiding once my Terminators, Obliterators, Raptors, and whatever else I can scrape up from my Deep Strike pool, have landed in their lap. I think I'm going to remodel my Icons of Tzeentch as umbrellas...

Waiting until Turn 3 isn't ideal, but getting liberally shelled for three turns isn't either.

minigun762 wrote:

chaosmarine17 wrote:hey guys my name is devyn and i need special tactics to beat tyranids and space marines it would really help because i can never beat my stepdad that plays space marines and i need also more help with my brother that plays the tyranids please help

In general, the recipe for Chaos is fairly easy.

1) We are a troop heavy army, if you aren't using 50% of your points on your troops, you're doing something wrong.
2) Since we're an elite army, try not to give everything mass upgrades. Remember that quantity has a quality all its own.
3) Everything should be in a Rhino unless you have a really good reason not to.
4) Our fast attack options are just ok, we tend to ignore them for other units.
5) Our best Elites are probably Termicide (3 Combi-Melta Terminators). You deepstrike next to a big target (Land Raider) fry it and then probably die next turn.
6) There is alot of debate about what Heavy is the best but things usually work better in pairs.

1) Could not agree more. Chaos has some of the best selection of troops in the game. New players should avoid spending too much on elite and fast attack choices, and stick with at least 50% of their points being spent on troops.

3) Rhino explosions are not that dangerous to MEQ units.
4) Fast attack options are best left to veteran players who really know the game well. New players should stick with a troops heavy list (In Rhinos) with some heavy support.
5) Same as #4
6) CSM players will never agree on what the best heavy support is, but a pair of identical heavy support choices does work well together ie 2 defilers, 2 squads of oblits, or 2 vindicators. Predators and Havoks are unpopular choices, and for new players defilers and obliterators are the most user friendly units for new players.

I agree with Schadenfreude's assessment most. Get a solid core you can win with, then start branching out into units that appeal to you. Play with them enough and you'll understand how you need to use them. All the units in the codex are usuable (except Spawn, which are meant for Gift of Chaos), you just have to use them.

Agreed with lots.
All units are functional (IMO even spawn, but they do require planning and some luck).

Though not everything is cost effective when you compare them to the stronger units in the army list.

I will echo some of what has been said:

-When in doubt, more troops. They are the back bone of the army.
Special weapon Raptors - consider CSM.
Outflanking special weapon Chosen - consider CSM.
Special weapon Havocs - consider CSM.
Special weapon bikers - consider CSM.
CSM in a rhino that is. Prob. the best bang for the buck you will have...essentially a combination of all of the above.

Then there's Plague Marines for a different flavor.

After the minimum 3 Mech troops, one should consider cover fire...generally you'll go to the Hvy support for this, and get them in pairs.
2 Defilers, 2 vindis, or 2 squads of oblits. Each has pros and cons, but all do well enough that it ends up being a personal taste issue.

Though I would suggest the defiler or oblits, only that they are unique choices to CSM, and not 'spiky Smurf' tanks.

Then there is the HQ..... if you go with Cult troops, I would suggest DP or the IC's.
If you go heavy CSMs, then there's little room in the rhino for IC's for DPs.

I always suggest the Daemon Prince...it's just so good for the points you invest in them....while ICs require more planning to get the most out of them (delivery being the primary problem for them IMO).

Seriously: Chaos is not a mystery to play or play against...it's a Sledgehammer basically...Troops are the head and the HQ/HVysuppor are the shaft.

Minigun, Sanctjud, Darkhound, Sourclams, etc. all know what they're talking about. I really don't have too much to add here, so I'll go over Minigun's list of CSMness.

1) We are a troop heavy army, if you aren't using 50% of your points on your troops, you're doing something wrong.

In most builds, yes, definitely.

2) Since we're an elite army, try not to give everything mass upgrades. Remember that quantity has a quality all its own.

Every squad needs a PF. Every CSM or PM squad needs 2 special weapons.
CSM may or may not need IoCGs.

3) Everything should be in a Rhino unless you have a really good reason not to.

Being in a Land Raider counts.

4) Our fast attack options are just ok, we tend to ignore them for other units.

CSM fast attack are point sinks and crap. They take away from your effectiveness via opportunity costs.

5) Our best Elites are probably Termicide (3 Combi-Melta Terminators). You deepstrike next to a big target (Land Raider) fry it and then probably die next turn.

Our only viable elites are Termicides. However, they're great.

6) There is alot of debate about what Heavy is the best but things usually work better in pairs.

IMO the only HS choices worth looking at are Oblits, Defilers and Raiders. And then pick one and use only it. Spam, don't differentiate.

If you want more info on builds and such, check out my blog (link in sig).