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I had always though O'Shovah had picked up a daemonic blade and was being turned to Chaos which is why he killed the etheral and broke away from the rest of the empire, as seems to happen with every imperial governor when they break away from theimperrium (i.e. kill off the imperial authorities).

That is the fan speculation, but until I see it in the next Tau codex, it is only that.

DarkHound wrote:

ph34r wrote:First off, the word you are looking for is canon.
To get to the point, if you don't accept what GW says because they don't put it in a book for you, I'm sorry for your loss. Luckily as this has nothing to do with rules, you cannot attempt to enforce your incorrect views on others. The rest of the world will get to live with the fact that not only is chaos Tau possible (warp signature, though small means that they can potentially be possessed and corrupted by a strong enough force) but GW has straight up told us how it is possible.

Alright, first, you need to chill out dude.

Did my post seem too harsh? That's not what I was aiming for, oh well. I felt that it was appropriate, and I am indeed currently chill


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DarkHound wrote:That is the fan speculation, but until I see it in the next Tau codex, it is only that.

Yeah. Could be chaos, could be C'tan, could be Eldar. No definite answer.

The problem I've always had with the "ZOMG Evil Blade!11!!" theory is that there's really no record of anything like that.
The Dawn Blade has always, to me, seemed to be an Eldar artifact or even possibly a Necron artifact. So there IS possibly some kind of Warp connection(or just the fact that it makes the user immune to the kinds of influence that the Ethereals exert with the pheromones).

And Chaos Tau? Eurgh. The Daemonhunters/Witchhunter Codexes examples, I might add, were mostly that the Tau were harboring a dangerous, renegade Psyker from Imperial justice or that they raided a Black Ship and got one, or even that they were attacking a world that formed part of a Pentagrammic Ward that chained some vast Warp beast into its prison.

but farsight has an extremely long life compare to normal tau. the dawn blade must has something to do with it.

Tau are interesting in that regard. Their life spans stretch the more important they are, which is relatively canon. I doubt it is a direct effect of the Dawn Blade, instead due to him being important because he weilds it.

So far, the only race that seems to be immune to the touch of Chaos are the Orks (there WAS some proof that there were Chaos Orks, but GW seems to have since retconned that).

DarkHound wrote:Tau are interesting in that regard. Their life spans stretch the more important they are, which is relatively canon. I doubt it is a direct effect of the Dawn Blade, instead due to him being important because he wields it.

Actually...that's not *entirely* true. The lifespans seemed to vary based on their castes. The conjecture has always been that Farsight seems to be INCREDIBLY long-lived for a Fire Caste, and it's quite likely he's pulling a Dread Captain Roberts and the title of Farsight, the battlesuit and the Dawn Blade keep getting passed down as the previous holder dies.

The sword could have possibly been a daemon artefact that bound his soul to his armour. It wouldn't be the first time something similar has happened, look at the Thousand Sons.

Wasn't a daemon artefact though.

It was a massive, massive ritual that bound the Thousand Suns to their armor.

Skinnattittar wrote:So far, the only race that seems to be immune to the touch of Chaos are the Orks (there WAS some proof that there were Chaos Orks, but GW seems to have since retconned that).

The back of the Daemonhunters book has nurgle orks doesn't it? Orks just feel that Chaos in un-Orky, so Slaaneshi and Tzeentchian Orks are almost unheard of, and Khornate and Nurglite orks are rare, though not as rare as Chaos Tau (who there are no confirmed examples of, but there is the possibility for).

Is there? The back of the codex shows some red and black Chaos dogs, but they don't look like Orks. I don't have mine on hand, but that's the google images picture. Link maybe? I have a copy, somewhere, but I've never seen these "Chaos Orks." Nor have I read about them in any recent fluff.

I agree with the gist of the quoted article that says tau aren't going to go full fallen and corrupted like other races do, but could certainly aid out of ignorance or naivety. If they allied with some humans from a chaos cult, got attacked and fought with them, and then the humans helped turn the tide by summoning a pack of demons? Well, provided that the daemons didn't attack or harm the tau then I can't see them objecting. They're used to working beside odd races. It would only take a daemon already bound to the materium to find a way of using them as convenient aid even if they were worthless for worship purposes.

Tau have a faint warp signature. It is presumably just not noticeable enough to often merit an attempt from a Daemon to seize any sort of control.

I want to reiterate what I said earlier about Shas'la Kais being influenced by Chaos in some pretty significant ways.

The Tau are less susceptible to manipulation, but that doesn't mean that in the right circumstances they can not be used, and I would argue even converted to Chaos entirely. Although Kais believes his drive for violence is his true Mont'au nature, as the storyline of Fire Warrior progrsses Kais begins to stray from thoughts of the Tau'va, and this all ends up being the direct influence of the Daemon Tarkh'ax who is using Kais angst, doubt, and knack for violence to control and position Kais where he wants him.

Skinnattittar wrote:Is there? The back of the codex shows some red and black Chaos dogs, but they don't look like Orks. I don't have mine on hand, but that's the google images picture. Link maybe? I have a copy, somewhere, but I've never seen these "Chaos Orks." Nor have I read about them in any recent fluff.

Here it is:



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Majesticgoat wrote:Tau have a faint warp signature. It is presumably just not noticeable enough to often merit an attempt from a Daemon to seize any sort of control.

I want to reiterate what I said earlier about Shas'la Kais being influenced by Chaos in some pretty significant ways.

The Tau are less susceptible to manipulation, but that doesn't mean that in the right circumstances they can not be used, and I would argue even converted to Chaos entirely. Although Kais believes his drive for violence is his true Mont'au nature, as the storyline of Fire Warrior progrsses Kais begins to stray from thoughts of the Tau'va, and this all ends up being the direct influence of the Daemon Tarkh'ax who is using Kais angst, doubt, and knack for violence to control and position Kais where he wants him.

Right, Tau don't have a strong enough warp presence to just randomly get possessed or corrupted. However, if they got stuck in a really bad warp storm, or there was some other chaotic incursion, I'm sure Daemons would not pass up Tau as an opportunity to enter real space.

There seem to be 2 issues with the idea of Chaos Tau. Their connection to the Ethereals and ideal of the Greater Good (pheremones, eh?), and their very small warp signature.
So if somehow their faith(addiction?) or whatever to the Ethereals is broken, and they become disillusioned with the 'Greater Good', then they are already renegades. And as has been stated, their warp signature is small, but not nonexistent. So they can still be possessed/mutated, it's just much more difficult than it would be for humans/other races.
There also seems to be some dissention in what exactly is meant by 'turning to chaos'. Just because they are difficult to possess/mutate, has nothing to do with the issue. The key is the ideal of chaos, or of gaining their loyalty. Say a daemon prince were to decide he wanted some tau followers. Could he not (if they are still loyal to the ethereal) overpower the ethereal and use him to 're-educate' the tau in the ways of chaos, and to tell them that they must worship him? Or if it's a renegade/mercenary force, couldn't he appear before them and strike a bargain? There are many ways in which the tau could be turned to chaos. (which does not necessarily mean they will all have tentacles for arms, etc. But there's no reason that they couldn't start taking skulls/drinking blood...) I'm sure that with enough creativity, any one of you could come up with believable fluff for having Chaos Tau.
*sits down, pours fine wine, and waits for the slavering horde of dissenters*

There is nothing stopping tau being tricked or manipulated or otherwise convinced to aid chaos (although getting them out from the etherial to start with is trickier) it just can't be done by chaotic means. As in no going at them via the warp and whispering into their mind and other favoured tactics. If you want to manipulate them you have to do it the old fashioned way with words, gestures and actions through normal senses in the materium. There are some greater daemons who can and do pull this off with human cults so I don't see why they couldn't on tau with a different form of reasoning. Not so much the cult angle, they appear rather unmoved by religion.

Strike a bargain, offer something they need, lend a little support against something you want defeated anyway, lend a few pointers on how to improve or reverse engineer some tech they've found, ensure the kroot are consuming bodies that will make them more susceptible to you... It can be done, just obliquely compared to most races. I'd still argue this isn't a true 'fall' but still quite useful. As long as you aren't looking for a host. (I recall somewhere that the more psychically powerful and willful the host, the harder they could fight against the possession if they realised it but the more power the daemon could apply in the materium, which is why eldar make good hosts and are near impossible to get. Humans then are middle of the range, orks buffer themselves in the waaagh, and tau would be both hugely difficult to squish into and rather weak once done. A kroot shaper would be a better host.)

Exactly what I was thinking. Thank you.

If I was a big nasty demon, I'd just possess and ethereal...

Can Tau be physically corrupted? I say no, as they're just not psychic enough as a whole. But if the group's ethereal died, and an extremely cunning agent/demon of chaos talked to the commander about a common enemy (Imperium), then its possible for them to be led away. Just don't be OTT with your fluff and you should be fine.

I'm still not sure possessing the etherial is the best solution. Getting them at least talking to you and then cause an accident to befall them would help get the loyal troops.

Skinnattittar wrote:Is there? The back of the codex shows some red and black Chaos dogs, but they don't look like Orks. I don't have mine on hand, but that's the google images picture. Link maybe? I have a copy, somewhere, but I've never seen these "Chaos Orks." Nor have I read about them in any recent fluff.

I have and older ork figure with horns and a hoof. You used to be able to field Khornate orks alongside chaotic forces at one time too.

garret wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:

garret wrote:Do it. dont let people say not to. you can make anything aslong as it follows the rules of the game and decency.

The rules of decency. . . really? Could you send me a copy? I think it would be easier to follow the fluff than the moving target that is "decency"

Rules of deceny to me mean not making models that offend someone.

. . . every Tau model ever made offends me. Deeply. I don't think Gundam Battlesuits make any sense in the 40k universe. I think I will send GW a letter. Also, most of the new beastmen models offend me too, mainly because they look so awful. Better take those off the shelves.

What offends someone is totally subjective and so I would be MUCH more hesitant to restrict someones imagination for modelling based on that, rather than the restrictions given by the fluff.

actually the white dwarf that came out when tau first did had an article on a TAU vs TAU fight which was TAU versus chaos TAU.

so fluff aside GW has already made it happen longish ago...

and yes there were slaaneshi eldar and khorne orks in RT edition

and I know this is a 40k forum but khaine the dark elf god in fb used to be how khorne showed himself to elves....and yes witch elves used to have khorne skull sigils on their belts.

You realize that the Farsight Enclaves are not Chaos Tau, right?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:Is there? The back of the codex shows some red and black Chaos dogs, but they don't look like Orks. I don't have mine on hand, but that's the google images picture. Link maybe? I have a copy, somewhere, but I've never seen these "Chaos Orks." Nor have I read about them in any recent fluff.

I have and older ork figure with horns and a hoof. You used to be able to field Khornate orks alongside chaotic forces at one time too.

Yes, I know there USED to be Chaos Orks, but since then I still think GW has retconned them out (I can't remember where, but I do remember reading that Orks are not able to be Chaosified. Something about their original creators (The Old Ones, supposedly) making them uncorruptable. Ph34r seems to have found an image from the Deamon Hunters codex that looks a lot like Chaos Orks, but besides that, I haven't heard anything about there being Chaos Orks in a long, long time. Nothing cannon at least.

apwill4765 wrote:

garret wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:

garret wrote:Do it. dont let people say not to. you can make anything aslong as it follows the rules of the game and decency.

The rules of decency. . . really? Could you send me a copy? I think it would be easier to follow the fluff than the moving target that is "decency"

Rules of deceny to me mean not making models that offend someone.

. . . every Tau model ever made offends me. Deeply. I don't think Gundam Battlesuits make any sense in the 40k universe. I think I will send GW a letter. Also, most of the new beastmen models offend me too, mainly because they look so awful. Better take those off the shelves.

What offends someone is totally subjective and so I would be MUCH more hesitant to restrict someones imagination for modelling based on that, rather than the restrictions given by the fluff.

I think you are missing the point here. By offensive he means don't make nazi marines unless you are playing in the KKK's secret Battle Bunker, or don't convert a chaos commissar to be on the recieving end of a daemonnette bj if playing with small children. Thats the kind of offensive he means. Whether you find the Tau offensive or not is rather irrelevent, as GW made them. But say you found an army centralised about the KKK beating up on the Foreign Xenos, thats a whole other league of offensive.

I find Communism intellectually offensive.... get rid of Tau, they offend me!

Obviously, I'm joking. "Decency" is a rather subjective word. Basically, if your local gaming group finds your choice to use nude models, or models acting in lude or otherwise "offensive" manners, they have the right to boot you from their games, according to GW. Most GT have some standards, but I have never heard of anyone bringing something like a "Nazi Space Marine" army, which would actually be illegal in Germany.

So, while I agree that without some severe story gymnastics, Tau falling to Chaos is exceedingly unlikely. However, I think we've all overlooked another set of entities that would likely have a much easier time corrupting our greater good guys: the C'tan.

Given the antipathy to the warp that they have, you would think that these guys would be almost logical food for the Deceiver. Also, let's face it, the Tau really need to get with the 41st Millennium style and get some skulls on their gear.

Well whenever I start a Tau army, they'll have some skulls. That's for damn sure...