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DarkHound wrote:The point of taking Farsight is not to get more suits cheaply, but vastly superior suits. Since his suits are bodguards, they can hardwire systems and take special issue items. Taking Farsight is about building a 7 Samurai list, and that's it. Farsight isn't bad himself, and when protected by 7 other bodies he can do a lot of damage in CC.

Farsight adds something to your list, and Shadowsun doesn't.

Yes Broadsides are restricted.

I love Battlesuits too, but you can fit 15 into a regular FOC, more if you count Broadsides, how many do you really need? And if you do count Broadsides, you actually can take more suits in a regular FOC than you can with Farsight.


And as for ninja Tau, are people still messing around with that? I thought it was generally considered impractical and wishy-washy.

Farsight + Suit with a Positional Relay = Scalpel Army

Basically load up specialist and send in the right ones for every battle...

Aye, use Farsight's unit as your generalist and specialise the other 4 squads. It'd definitely be an interesting army to play.

True, but fun to play I've noticed doesn't mean "will be played" Too often peolple see running farsight as "OMGCRISISSUITS" but like, at 2000 points you can get more crisis suits that are more survivable and still have 9 broadsides blowing up tanks left and right. The scalpel army thing is nice but it's no different really than shadowsun, the only unique thing being A you can choose to specialize, and B you have SOME anti assault in the form of farsight
but those 7 man bodyguard teams are MURDER to try and DS with! you ever tried DSing an 8 man termie squad? it's nigh impossible! especially in such a scalpel situation...any scatter and you're ed, cause farsight can't take position relay (what, you're gonna drop him in then wait a turn and drop in ur specialist? seems impractical... )

Shadowsun is a great attention hog. I have only used her a few times but she took an inordinate amount of Lascannon shots that opened up the table for my Crisis squads to get into advantageous cover positions. She has 3 +4 invulnerable saves.....so for one turn she took the attention of a LR and a Predator and was still standing after that. That amount of fire could have wiped a Crisis Squad or worse took out my Hammerhead or Broadsides....and if she does get backed into a corner she can try to fusion her way out of it...again taking eyes off the Crisis squads moving to rear/side arcs.

Expensive yes but as a lure she can be worth it. Kauyon anyone?

"Any plan that relies on the mistakes of the enemy is doomed from the start."

Is it a mistake to try and kill a mobile HQ unit that has the potential to destroy two tanks in one turn? She has the ability to kill any vehicle within a 12 radius of her. Where did i say to rely on mistakes to use her effectively? The only tactic i mentioned was using her as a lure...if the bait is taken use it...if not use her mobility to either get close for up close melta use or use her LD balloon to help keep your army on the table.

She is really expensive to be used purely for her Ld aura. If she really tries to make a move against a vehicle she'll get blown to pieces by bolter fire. 10 bolters rapid firing will reduce her to 1 wound and kill all of her drones. Now more likely they'll have a special weapon and a heavy weapon. If the special is a flamer and the heavy weapon uses his bolt pistol, then the flamer only has to get 3 hits to kill her. She is not sturdy enough to close on the enemy by herself.

I do have to agree with Dogface at least in regards to taking the heat off of crisis teams,
I had a crisis team get lashed in a recent game out of cover, and they had one shield generator and no drones (small point game) a chaos land raider opened up and blurbed em right off the field (think insta gib)
Shadowsun has the innate ability to counter that volume of rending/ap2 fire
at the same time tho dark hounds point keeps coming around, as a shadow crisis team (a team of three with a shield on the leader and two shield drones, essentially shadowsun's survivability) would cost roughly the same number of points and have 8 wounds rather than shadowsuns (essentially) 6 and put out (if sunforge?) one more shot than her, but all 3 being TL, and with a target lock would have the same ability to destroy vehicles (perhaps more due to that one extra shot)
However I do like the lure idea, it IS very fluffy (kauyon as you said ) and she does have SOME in built surviviablity...something i think i brought up earlier in relation to her low toughness and dependence on the shield generator
as to the leadership buff, I think it depends, as I've had (in the same game as above) a unit holding my backfield take three casualties and run off the board (faild on a 10 as i recall) but at the same time i had a squad get doom sirened/sonicblastered/whatever down to half strength and then get assaulted, and thankfully they broke, got shot up, and regrouped as three guys (who then drew fire from his DSing oblits)
So i think the key thing to note here is that everything but her weapons suggests that shadowsun should be kept in the backfield, as a potentially deadly lure. it is only her fusion guns that force her out and make her not worth it

Wall of text, press enter to make things readable...

Shadowsun about 18 points less than 3 Crisis Suits with 2 Shield drone (with a Bonding Knife) all armed with Targeting Arrays and TL-Fusion Blasters...

Shadowsun: 2*5/6 = 1.666666666666667 hits.
Crisis Suits: 3*8/9 = 2.666666666666667 hits.

Crisis Suits will on average deliver one more hit with a fusion blasters. For only 18 more points you get an extra fusion blaster hitting.

Here is the part where I defend Shadowsun.

Crisis Suits Are 5 bodies, 3 Crisis Suits and 2 Shield Drones. While Shadowsun is 1 small body with 2 Shield Drones and a Command Drone.

This means Shadowsun will have a smaller foot print, thus will mishap less often. In addition it is easier to hide the drones and shadowsun over 3 Crisis Suits and 2 Shield drones...

DarkHound wrote:Okay guys, I got this idea, no wait, let me tell you. I got this idea. Lets take a Stealthsuit right? The one that's invisible at range. No, wait listen. So lets take this Stealthsuit, and we'll put Meltaguns on it. No, but we won't put one, we'll put two. And then, lets make it take drones because we don't want it dieing or joining squads. Wait, wait, and here's the kicker: we quadruple the price.

She is the price of a full battlesuit team with a third the firepower and is vastly less durable. The philosophy of her load-out of totally backwards. Stealth fields make you invulnerable at range, so lets give it close ranged guns where the stealth is useless. If she were a Deathrain or even a Fireknife she'd be a steal, but as it is she makes her greatest asset (the stealth field generator) moot.

1)Funny stuff, only needed to put in the (inhales, holds breath and then speaks while coughing) intro, otherwise very funny and most probably true.

2) I'd say that both Shadowsun and Farsight carry the wrong Weapons. IMO, Farsight Should be armed with a choice of Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (Maybe a Flamer option?) while Shadowsun should carry an improved CIBs or Plasma Rifles(Maybe one of each).

Also imo:
Aside from that, Shadowsun should be able to take a stealthed drone squadron as an optional retinue.
Farsight, Heh, he should be able to take gue'vesa.human allies as the fluff suggests.

yea gue'vesa just need to be part of the army...i mean guardsmen with pulse rifles? what's not to love? horde with awesome guns...yea not seeing a downside there XD especially for 7-8 pts a pop (which i personally feel they should be, with guard being 6 and a pulse rifle annihilating a lasgun)