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Richard Coeur de Lion wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
He said *almost* uni-pose, and that's true for a lot of their stuff.

Here's what an Ex Illis army looks like.

False! That's what a starter set looks like, that's it!

Don't like the starter set? You can buy from the newer units then.

Inform yourself before attacking a product.

Care to compare to the first starter set GW ever produced to make it a fairer comparison?

Look at the quality of the new units Ex illis are releasing now, and appreciate the progress they have made in little less than one year.

Or do you just prefer bashing for the fun of bashing a product that you have obviously never seen with your own eyes?

You don't want to buy Ex illis products? Fine!

But don't flame it in this unfair fashion for the rest of the players... That's just plain hate.

No, that's *exactly* what Ex Illis army looks like.

No, I don't like the Ex Illis starter set, and I won't buy it. The proportions don't work for me, nor the 1990s prevalance of mono-pose models. The other stuff isn't particularly compelling, so no thanks.

I did inform myself, by browsing Google Images for "Ex Illis", and quite frankly, their product is NOT IMPRESSIVE. It's extremely blah. Boring historicals with some angel wings tacked on. I thought teenage girls stopped wearing pretend wings about 3 years ago.

Also, I'm not attacking anything. I'm giving my opinion, and I'm entitled to do so. If Ex Illis isn't up to the GW / Privateer / Malifaux / Infinity standards, that isn't an attack - that's simply how I see it.

Was this Ex Illis starter set released back in the 1990s? No? Then we legitmately compare it to a *current* GW starter set - BfM, BfSP, or current Island of Blood, because presumably, it's competing for whatever dollars I currently have in my pocket right *now*. If Ex Illis produces 1990s-grade product in 2010, then their product is more than 20 years out of date.

If their newer stuff is better, bully for them. That said, Malifaux is 1 year old, and their product is simply excellent. And Quite frankly, it appears one would do far better to play Ex Illis with Bretonnian models, tacking on Pegasus Knight wings where needed.

And again, I'm not bashing them. I am saying that they don't impress me at all, based on what I've seen of their products.

If you are at all representative of the Ex Illis player base, it'll be a cold day in hell before I buy any of their stuff.

Again, I'm not flaming their product. My post was factual. Somebody claimed they weren't mono-pose, and the facts showed otherwise. Hell, I'm not even flaming you.


Point of fact for you to learn:
- disliking something isn't flaming, attacking, or bashing

Enjoy your game. May it see the same success as its predecssor minis games like VOID, VOR, Starship Troopers, AT-43, Confrontation, Ragnarok, and Battlefield Evolution.

For some mini's are more important for other the rules are more important. There is a third category where the importance is equal etc.

That isn't the point. Many starter sets are comprised of less customizable minis than the normal boxed sets that flesh out the range. Bastions mistake was releasing the starter with no additional troops. Their entire model line is judged based on the starter, fair or not.

Quality - the models are the same quality as your more popular plastic providers. Having assembled several starters myself I can attest to that.

I think many are turned off by the stylistic choice. This is not heroic scale. No rippling muscles, no giant banners and intricate armour.

Bastion went with a more "realistic" look. "truer scale" if you will.

Nobody looked at the billmen in braveheart and said man those guys look awesome. They are just guys with pikes. Well we got the grints in the starter set. Now comes the candy. What the original post was about.

The big new shinny.

The base to me looks like its meant to be flocked/sanded. It seems like a fine sculpt when that is kept in mind.








Also is anyone else having their text appear verrrrrrry slowly across the quick reply box.

Oh, yeah, I'm done here. Don't bother replying to me.

It's true the starter has one pose units (especially for cavalry). There other products are very custumisable, easy to do kit bashing and similar in quality to GW. Unfortunatly for Ex-Illis, the first thing most people see is the starter.

As for this monster base:
the earth is very soft and with the lighting makes it look bad. Painted, it will look a lot different and more realistic, more so will flock. The second picture looks way better and would have gotten different comments if it were the first shown.

For a one piece base, it's going to be very nice once painted and probably look awesome with the, I guess, demon that goes on top of it. I can't wait to see picture of it from Gencon.

Well if you want to compare to others... Lets just say GW, PP, Infinity, Sodapop, Mercs, Wyrd, Alkemy, Freebooter, Red box games to name the first few that crossed my mind are vastly superior to anything Exillis showened to us miniwise so far.
To me the minis sell the brand so... subpar miniatures or concept or style, like the ones seen at Exillis so far, do stop me from even entering this company on my favorite list.

... Island of Blood is all completely monoposed as well, except for maybe the Rat Ogres. One starter is from a multi-million dollar company and costs a staggering $100, the other is from a startup company and costs $60.

Aren't the minis also all plastic?

MadNes wrote:I guess everyone has different tastes, but this looks like high-end plastic to me.

http://ex-illis.com/wiki/index.php/File:Monster-Base2.jpg

Note the skulls in between the souls / bodies, whatever. Probly hard to that with a cheap vacume mold.

It looks "high end" because thats a picture of a 3d render. I KNEW IT (see my previous post)!!!! I'm just that good!

I agree, it's a terribly executed base. The big giveaway for me is the damned souls' heads. They aren't just looking down for no good reason, most of them are basically a collumn of plastic that goes straight down into the base. While yes, making them actual head shapes would be hard (impossible?) on a single base, this ruins the effect. It would have been easy to just mould the heads as separate pieces, and then we would have been able to make them actually look where they're going.

It honestly looks like whoever designed this was just trying to cut corners to make the job easy, which is a crazy decision for what is obviously supposed to be a centerpiece kit.

I also don't care for the angel entrails, but that's more conceptual than execution. In most mythologies angels are not proper corporeal living beings, so they have no need for a lower digestive track. They do no need to eat, so they shouldn't need to poop, so they don't need intestines.

Most people don't want to spend that much time on a base. The model itself is meant to be the focal attraction, the base is just there to accentuate it. Putting that much detail on the base would draw the eye away from where you want it to be.

Lots of negative energy here. I'm also unimpressed with Ex Illis but hardly feel any need to attack them publicly. Some of their stuff is pretty cool.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-518-7012_Ex%20Illis.html

I'd put these guys over the current crop of Empire or Brettonian knights for example.



The base might be a test sculpt, or a 3-d print. I'd hold back from trying to guess how sharp the finished product is, they obviously can do crisp details.

Looking forward to seeing what they have in store.

Lord-Ironfist UNA wrote:... Island of Blood is all completely monoposed as well, except for maybe the Rat Ogres. One starter is from a multi-million dollar company and costs a staggering $100, the other is from a startup company and costs $60.

Aren't the minis also all plastic?

Starting up companies is no excuse for bad concepts and baddly sculpted miniatures sorry... the examples I gave on my first post here, most of the companies/ ranges I exemplified are new companies.


And Kid Kyoto please dont see divergent yet inocent opinions as negative energy.

Wow, do you really think they are THAT bad or are you just trying to make a point?
Sure you may not like them, but they are not BAD.
I know it seems like I'm biased and have an agenda, but this game won me over all on its own.
Last year I went to gencon looking for two things, Malifaux and Arcane Legions, but exillis really stole the show. (for me)
Other than Wyrd, (which is just another level of dopeness) bastion makes my favorite models on the market. You may not like them, but some of us do.
Also please note, it is easier to devote more attention to each individual model for skirmish games that will only have a few models on the board. Ex-illis is an army scale game. You should be playing it with over 100 models per side. Imo games like that look better on the table when the models are uniform. Gives it a cleaner more regimented look.

But thats just my taste, if that look is not for you , its not for you.


As far as netativity goes - if you look over the whole thread, you will see that some of the posts seem intended to deter readers from giving the game a shot. There are plenty of. Games I don't play / don't like. I don't feel compelled to go on threads about those games and incessantly expound on why they suck.

MadNes wrote:As far as netativity goes - if you look over the whole thread, you will see that some of the posts seem intended to deter readers from giving the game a shot. There are plenty of. Games I don't play / don't like. I don't feel compelled to go on threads about those games and incessantly expound on why they suck.

which is a completely valid point of discussion on a non-company forum. getting a critique about minis that's negative is part of doing business in the modern age; not everyone is going to like any product and just because the review is negative doesn't mean it does not deserve to get posted on an independent forum. lets leave the gratuitous flattery and stifling of dissenting opinion for the official company boards, m'kay? as long as the person isn't flaming or overly rude (and negative does not automatically equate to rude), it's appropriate. that being said, i like the minis but definitely not the big base.

MadNes wrote:Wow, do you really think they are THAT bad or are you just trying to make a point?
Sure you may not like them, but they are not BAD..

As much as I want any new miniature company outhere to have the best of luck with their business, Im afraid to say I was quite shocked with the miniatures lack of quality... ( anf this base really is the lowest in plastic quality I have seen for some time).
Looking at design presentation and some really nice artwork and the fact they are plastic kits I was especting so much more.
Looks to me they cutted corners on the last thing they should have and that is the sculpts... Not only for me but for many hobby guys the miniature quality alone sells a range and a game... In exillis case it does the oposite for me and leaves me dead cold regarding this company future.

MadNes wrote:
I know it seems like I'm biased and have an agenda, but this game won me over all on its own.
Last year I went to gencon looking for two things, Malifaux and Arcane Legions, but exillis really stole the show. (for me)
Other than Wyrd, (which is just another level of dopeness) bastion makes my favorite models on the market. You may not like them, but some of us do.
Also please note, it is easier to devote more attention to each individual model for skirmish games that will only have a few models on the board. Ex-illis is an army scale game. You should be playing it with over 100 models per side. Imo games like that look better on the table when the models are uniform. Gives it a cleaner more regimented look.

But thats just my taste, if that look is not for you , its not for you.


As far as netativity goes - if you look over the whole thread, you will see that some of the posts seem intended to deter readers from giving the game a shot. There are plenty of. Games I don't play / don't like. I don't feel compelled to go on threads about those games and incessantly expound on why they suck.

In my life I learned very soon that antagonic opinions are as much positive and just as usefull ( if not more) than just praising comments mate. Not sniping exillis or anyother company because I have no agenda apart the never ending search for the best sculpts in 28mm world as a passionated collector.

I just flagged that out of all the people defending this company, at least 3 have under 5 posts here, and some have all their posts in this thread.

My god, it's like the foam wars all over again. What are the bets that the owner of the company is one of them?

(awaits inevitable rage from aforementioned people in his direction for daring to mention such a thing)

Ex Illis, welcome to Dakka.

Ketara wrote: What are the bets that the owner of the company is one of them?

I wish, then I wouldn't be a mailroom guy

@ warboss - I'm all for dissenting opinion. I've said over and over, if you try something and its not your cup of tea fine. I've (me personally) never showed the game to someone and have them tell meit wasn't fun or looked like crap. All I'm saying is if dissenting opinion is good, so is variety.

Lastly, and this is all I will say about the topic - some people use the anonimity of the internet, and the banner of dissenting opinion, to turn off the common courtesy and politeness filters. Give it another look, there are inflamatory posts on both sides of the argument. I think people can / should be able to express theor opinion, dissenting or agreeing , without being rude or crqss.

Look back over the thread, some arguments where poorly worded and offensive.

I didn't mean you MadNes, with 40 posts, you're probably genuine.

I think they look fine. The AOBR set was far more monopose than this stuff, and it seems to get plenty of praise. No one seems to care that all the Orks and Space Marines come in one pose with only a few weapon or head swaps to break them up.

Wait, this game requires the use of software to play?

BrookM wrote:Wait, this game requires the use of software to play?

No, the algorythms and formulas to resolve actions are all available to players.... But playing that way is more like work

Game designers mentioned it used to take them 8 hours to play a skirmish scale game using excel spreadsheets to resolve the wieghted random draw. Ex is a army scale game.

You CAN play that way... But the software is so much better, and free.

Ketara wrote:I just flagged that out of all the people defending this company, at least 3 have under 5 posts here, and some have all their posts in this thread.

My god, it's like the foam wars all over again. What are the bets that the owner of the company is one of them?

(awaits inevitable rage from aforementioned people in his direction for daring to mention such a thing)

Its just a coincidence for sure

MadNes wrote:

BrookM wrote:Wait, this game requires the use of software to play?

No, the algorythms and formulas to resolve actions are all available to players.... But playing that way is more like work

Game designers mentioned it used to take them 8 hours to play a skirmish scale game using excel spreadsheets to resolve the wieghted random draw. Ex is a army scale game.

You CAN play that way... But the software is so much better, and free.

Sounds pretty broken to me then.

Just a different way to play a wargame. Its a really foreign concept to alot of peeps. But variety is the spice of life. Different is good, not broken.

BrookM wrote:Sounds pretty broken to me then.

No, it's not. Or at least, not based on what has been posted here. Just because playing it wrong makes the game take an obnoxiously long time does not make it broken. I imagine Civilisation 4 would take even longer if you tried to do all the calculations yourself, but that's why you let the computer do all the number crunching. In 2010, when every nerd and his dog owns a laptop, a hybrid game like this might actually be feasible.

Oh I remember people talking about this game. Sounded back then like the models were just decoration, and that it was possible to play the game soley on the computer.

BrookM wrote:Sounds pretty broken to me then.

what a post.

To be honest, i find the mini's ok. In my opinion, most of the stuff i get from GW looks better, and even though i don't play it, I have checked out Warmachines Mini's and think those are of a higher quality too. But this isn't saying I think the sculpts are bad- If i were interested enough in playing the game, I would certainly buy those mini's. They look good, but there is much room for improvement. I would like to check out their range in 6 months or so.

As far as the game being played with laptop and mini's... I'm very much on the fence here. On the one hand, everyman and his dog do have a laptop it seems these days, but like you said, civ 4 would take longer to do if you did all the calculations yourself. But I do kind of feel like since the computer is doing the calculations anyway, why not have it display the board and the mini's as graphics? Seems like putting a turn based strategy game from digital to half and half, and it would be easier to just have the game on a computer. But it is an interesting idea, I do admit I know practically nothing about the game, but this thread has sparked my interest, so I'll read up about it tomorrow night at work

Jihallah wrote:But I do kind of feel like since the computer is doing the calculations anyway, why not have it display the board and the mini's as graphics?

If this was a Games Workshop game I'd say because people like building, converting and painting a physical army, even if they don't care to memorise the rules for combat resolution.

http://ex-illis.com/wikien

This is the best place to look.

All the rules, all the fluff, all the art.