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Course it does, it becomes a very personal thing with your own more pressing needs and wants which outweighs everyones elses.

If you examine any internet forum for any service in the world, be it for rail timetables through to government policies, the largest voices are those who are dissatisfied with their lot.

Elmodiddly wrote:Course it does, it becomes a very personal thing with your own more pressing needs and wants which outweighs everyones elses.

If you examine any internet forum for any service in the world, be it for rail timetables through to government policies, the largest voices are those who are dissatisfied with their lot.

I don't see how encouraging growth and repeat sales through customer satisfaction is personal to me.

I was replying to Athera's post but you got another post in first.

One of the main points raised from the annual financial report for GW was that they expect to concentrate upon the training of the Store Managers so that they can give a better service.

Things might change from what some people perceive to be a poor service. As I said beore though it is always the people who have the issues shout the loudest and are probably in a minority but they have the biggest voice so it appears that there is something inherantly wrong.

Elmodiddly wrote:I was replying to Athera's post but you got another post in first.

One of the main points raised from the annual financial report for GW was that they expect to concentrate upon the training of the Store Managers so that they can give a better service.

Things might change from what some people perceive to be a poor service. As I said beore though it is always the people who have the issues shout the loudest and are probably in a minority but they have the biggest voice so it appears that there is something inherantly wrong.

There's also somewhat of a disconnect between the frontline store staff and the upper management. The upper management have traditionally wanted the store staff to concentrate on the new kids. The store staff learn quickly that it isn't the new kids that drive their sales, it's the community that steps up and makes the numbers for them.

At the store I go to, i can count the "kids" on one hand, it's the rest of us, the older guys (and by older I mean late teens on) that play in the store campaigns that are there every day. the "kids" roll in once a week, make a mess and their parents won't buy them anything. "Maybe if you mow the lawn, get a good grade on your next math test and put the laundry away when we get home, I'll look for one on eBay for you."

Kirasu wrote:Does Nostradamus know when GW will get their own nascar car?

No, but I do predict that your posts will continue remain devoid of humor...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Justicar Alaric wrote:m. As for licensing their IP has you no theard of the number of times GW have issued legal orders stopping people from using something even close to their IP.

And your point is?

That is stopping nerds on the internet from using their IP without permission.

"Licensing their IP" means getting companies to pay them to use their IP. People like computer game companies and FFG, etc. Sort of like what your starting to see more and more as of late...

Athera wrote:
There's also somewhat of a disconnect between the frontline store staff and the upper management. The upper management have traditionally wanted the store staff to concentrate on the new kids. The store staff learn quickly that it isn't the new kids that drive their sales, it's the community that steps up and makes the numbers for them.

At the store I go to, i can count the "kids" on one hand, it's the rest of us, the older guys (and by older I mean late teens on) that play in the store campaigns that are there every day. the "kids" roll in once a week, make a mess....

This will read very odd and in some way belligerent but it isn't meant that way, it is a simply question; How do you know? You're saying that the management are some way sidelining the adult gamer. How?

CT GAMER wrote:I'm not so sure.

I see GW potentially entering an era of transformation in which they are testing the viability of mainstream mass market appeal:

Look at all the video game licenses in the works, movies, board games w/ FFG, etc.

I foresee an era in which they potentially become mainstream and look to appeal to the average kid in say the U.S. and elsewhere with things like the above ( and maybe a cartoon, hollywood animated feature, etc.) as opposed to simply the wargaming market which is rather niche.

If they figure out a viable way to make mainstream bucks with regular toys, simplified wargames, video games, merchandising etc. Then us war gamers won't eve be needed anymore, and certainly not us whiny, nostalgic veteran gamers that are never satisfied anyways...

I agree with this.

GW has an incredibly unique and incredibly marketable IP. This is merely one reason why they keep it under strict lock and key. Everybody complains about it, but I don't blame them one bit, I'd probably do the same. They are entering an era of exploration; finding new revenue streams for their IP. I / we, can only hope that it benefits the tabletop games we love and not detract from them. Only time will tell.

SmackCakes wrote:GW customers are not just customers though, they are also hobbyists, a loyal fan base, and part of the gaming community.

That's what a customer is. When you need to buy something to live or maintain a basic level of living then you're more than customer and very high pricing can be called exploitative. But if it's a hobby, it isn't exploitative. If the prices get too high you can stop buying and just play with what you've got or move to another, cheaper game. There's plenty of other games out there.

And actually I do think that if you keep raising and raising your prices to see how much you can squeeze them for. Then it might be profitable, but it isn't really fair on the fans. I think it qualifies as exploiting their loyalty. And I don't believe that is admirable behaviour, if you can get your product out to your fans at a fair price that doesn't destroy demand, then you should.

GW has obligations to share holders to give them the greatest return.

I can't see how the steep increase in the cost of plastics can be justified by costs. I think it is just greed.

Yes, they're charging what they can, that's what businesses do. I'd like the prices to to be less, but given it takes me about two months to paint a box of models (I don't get much time to paint and I'm really slow) then I just don't see $50 every couple of months as an expensive hobby. I see a couple of movie a month so over two moths you're looking at $50 to $60. I go out to dinner about once a week, there's $50 gone every time. A round at the pub costs $50. It is not an expensive hobby.

40k 2nd edition was a stand alone game. Everything you needed to play the game was in the box. There were codex books, but these were supplements. As it happens I bought all the codex books for 2nd edition.

There was a load of new options in the codices. I don't know anyone that played 2nd ed without their codex.

If you bought the rules then you also have to buy at least one codex book or you wasted your money. and you have to buy more if you want to have any clue what your opponent is doing, or if their army is even legal.

It's always been that way. And no, you don't have to buy your opponents codex, you can simply ask to borrow it off of a friend to read. That's how it has always been.

What is more annoying is that you can't just buy army lists. I don't really want a full codex book personally because I've already read most of the fluff a million times, I already know what a chaplain is, I don't need or want paint schemes. Yet you can't get the army list unless you buy the whole lot. Again I think this is exploiting the customer by forcing them to pay extra for a bunch of stuff they don't want, just to get the little bit they need.

The cost of printing a book at 15 pages is not actually that different to the cost of printing a book at 60 pages.

Kirasu wrote:Does Nostradamus know when GW will get their own nascar car?

Haha Great Joke.

Elmodiddly wrote:

Athera wrote:
There's also somewhat of a disconnect between the frontline store staff and the upper management. The upper management have traditionally wanted the store staff to concentrate on the new kids. The store staff learn quickly that it isn't the new kids that drive their sales, it's the community that steps up and makes the numbers for them.

At the store I go to, i can count the "kids" on one hand, it's the rest of us, the older guys (and by older I mean late teens on) that play in the store campaigns that are there every day. the "kids" roll in once a week, make a mess....

This will read very odd and in some way belligerent but it isn't meant that way, it is a simply question; How do you know? You're saying that the management are some way sidelining the adult gamer. How?

1) Simplifying of the games (go back to the "Little Jervis" debacle.)

2) Marines, Marines, Marines. And "Overpowered Marine army of the month".

I don't consider it to require a hard look to realize who GW is trying (and generally failing) to market to.

I actually have had some very positive experiences at the Westheimer GW in Houston. Dude running the joint is really laid back, but knows his stuff.

People have been doomcrying GW for years. I had a gamestore owner tell me he was firesaling all his GW kit because they were circling the drain and he wanted to get rid of the product so it wouldnt weigh down his business with crap he could no longer move. That was in 2000, and that store is long gone.

sebster wrote:I just don't see $50 every couple of months as an expensive hobby.

Well firstly you spend a lot less a month than I do. $50 Australian would hardly buy a tank here, throw in a can of spray and a book and you can double that.

Secondly it's not about how expensive it is. It's about value for money. Everything in GW is hugely overpriced for what it is. For example they charge £7 for 3 files... You can buy a set of 10 good quality jeweller's needle files for less than half that in other stores. You would have to be stupid to buy your tools there.

Unfortunately for things like Space Marines you don't have the option of buying them from a competitor, so you have to pay GW prices. £8 would be a reasonable price for 5 space marines, and they would probably be making a decent profit at that. £15 would be way over the top. Games Workshop charge £20.

There are lots of things I buy that I feel quite happy about the price (most things). I do buy GW stuff because I want it, but I'm very unhappy about the price because I know I'm being ridiculously ripped off. I feel stupid giving them that much money for so little, and my gf thinks I'm insane... I think I must be.

If the prices get too high you can stop buying and just play with what you've got or move to another, cheaper game. There's plenty of other games out there.

Literally thousands of people have already done that. That is what I probably will do too. In fact it's what I already am doing...

When I was young my friends and I used to play GW a lot. By the time we hit our teens all of them apart from me had quit playing. While they still maintained some interest, all of them stopped collecting because of the constant price hikes.

I did meet some other guys who played, but after not very long they all quit the hobby too claiming it was just abig money sink. My original friends would gasp and say WTFingF! when they saw how much GW had hiked up the prices since they'd quit. And prattle on about how right they were.

I lost interest around the time 3rd edition came out and invalidated all my codex books, and a lot of my miniatures (particularly my squat army).

When I decided I'd like to get back into GW... I was also like "WTFingF" when I saw how much they were charging these days. I actually didn't buy anything the first time I went back in the shop because I just wasn't comfortable paying that much.

I have bought a few bits now, but mainly I try to get second hand stuff of ebay or find alternative models. So in many ways GW has also lost my custom now too as well as all of my friends.

GW has obligations to share holders to give them the greatest return ... they're charging what they can, that's what businesses do.

But the problem is GW's strategy seems to be to get the greatest return per sale, not per customer. A customer is not just one sale. There is a popular idea in business called the 80:20 principle, which states that roughly 80% of your profits comes from 20% of your customers. This is your target audience. We can divide the world up into 4 types of people...

1. People who don't know about GW and wouldn't be interested anyway.
2. People who know about GW but aren't interested.
3. People who don't know about GW, but would be interested.
4. People who know about GW and buy their products.

Groups 1 and 2 are of no use to GW so we can ignore them. Group 4 is important because without them GW couldn't survive. And ideally they would like to get everyone from group 3 into group 4.

Myself and 2 different sets of friends were all group 4 type people. Exactly the type of people GW need, who contribute precious revenue. But what GW seem to do is to keep greedily bumping up their prices more and more until valuable customers who might of continued collecting for years just get annoyed and quit.

They've even started to lose my custom and I've been obsessed my whole life. And I have plenty of money too. I've spent hundreds (probably thousands) at GW over the years, and I would be more than happy to go on doing so... But I expect a little more value for money. If I spend £100 in GW I expect more than 1 squad and half a rule book, and they could afford to give me more, but they are too short sighted.

If the prices stop me buying GW, and I already know GW is a rip off but love it anyway... How are new potential customers going to feel. There must be thousands of potential customers who are put off from ever getting into the hobby by the prices.

If GW can't hold on to their current customers, and can't attract new customers. Eventually they will have zero customers. This is very simple.

Now you tell me again that GW are getting the best return for their share holders. Cause I say that's BS. I think they are slowly pricing themselves out of the market.

They have already suffered drops in the price of stock because they failed to hit promised targets. They are already loosing business to resales on ebay and pirated codex books.

And what is their solution? They put up their prices even more, and alienate even more of their good customers. *sigh*

It's always been that way. And no, you don't have to buy your opponents codex, you can simply ask to borrow it off of a friend to read. That's how it has always been.

It hasn't always been that way 2nd ed (and I believe 3rd) had a basic army list for every army. And I don't think borrowing a friends book is good enough. Codex books are as much reference books are they are anything else. I have to look stuff up in mine all the time, to check to wording and clarify things. You would at least need to make an illegal copy.

Also it isn't just about knowing your opponent's army. I have 9 different armies, at £17 a go that's £153 just to field them all again. If the books were £10 or contained a lot of new stuff that wasn't already in my 2nd ed books that I would consider buying them. But £17 each they can **** right off.

The cost of printing a book at 15 pages is not actually that different to the cost of printing a book at 60 pages.

They could put it in the rule book like they used to, or have it as a downloadable PDF on their web site. The reason they don't has nothing to do with costs.

I agree that the staff here the UK are becoming much less friendly and it seems that alot of the staff are just there because its a job.. which is unfortunate.

7 years ago when i started the staff at my FLGS were amazingly nice and welcomed me to the hobbs where as now all the staff are practicly forcing items down new peoples throats.

but you have to view it from both sides right?

When the dust settles we have to all agree that at the end of the day it is a shop, and they are there to sell items. and i think they are adding a strain with setting selling targets and most of the staff are probably worried about there positions and therefore trying to sell as much as possible.

SmackCakes wrote:Secondly it's not about how expensive it is. It's about value for money. Everything in GW is hugely overpriced for what it is. For example they charge £7 for 3 files... You can buy a set of 10 good quality jeweller's needle files for less than half that in other stores. You would have to be stupid to buy your tools there.

Thats true for alot of products from large companies. For example, in my store if something says " Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda" or any other motorcycle/ jet ski manufacturer, the price on whatever that particular product is, will at the very least, double or triple. For value, aftermarket is the way to go, and I always try to do that for my customers. Only those with the money and high amounts of brand loyalty pay the extra prices, and plenty do exactly that. This is not something unique to GW and it is common practice for big brand names.

Unfortunately for things like Space Marines you don't have the option of buying them from a competitor, so you have to pay GW prices. £8 would be a reasonable price for 5 space marines, and they would probably be making a decent profit at that. £15 would be way over the top. Games Workshop charge £20.

Not to sound combative, but how do you know what the profit margin is? How much would the company make if they sold them at your "reasonable" price? How much would the LGS retailer make after overhead costs are taken into account? Next time you buy something mundane(non hobby related), research how much it may have cost to make and compare it to what you paid for it. A retail mark up is required to keep businesses afloat. GW's practices are the norm in the retail world, not a unique exception.

Wow, this has been a really good and clean thread so far. Interesting to read with good points on either side.

I think Smackcakes has the majority of it right, except I think he is putting too much reverence on the thought of a hobbyist. (Likely because he is one, as am I.)

That said, he was dead on with the 80-20 breakdown. I think GW is shortsighted and takes it even further, making 80% of a customers lifetime purchasing in one sale, assuming a person will build their core army and then suppliment it little by little over time.

That's bad.

Lets say I was rebuilding my Eldar list at my FLGS with my 10% loyal customer discount. Around 400$ for less than 75 models.

After spending that much money, I would never buy into another army at retail price. I may buy tiny bits and pieces to accent this list, but I'd never re-buy at retail. In fact, I didn't buy in at retail. I bought my starting list here at the Dakka Swap shop for around 180 dollars and a handful of video games.

Lower prices would allow..

More first timers.

More multiple army owners.

More consistant and steady purchasing as opposed to random large chunks of money.

GW is doing it wrong.

I like how they are branching out, and hopefully I get a Blood-bowl-esqe virtual 40k one day true to tabletop rules and gameplay, but I wont hold my breath.

SmackCakes wrote:

sebster wrote:I just don't see $50 every couple of months as an expensive hobby.

Well firstly you spend a lot less a month than I do. $50 Australian would hardly buy a tank here, throw in a can of spray and a book and you can double that.

Secondly it's not about how expensive it is. It's about value for money. Everything in GW is hugely overpriced for what it is. For example they charge £7 for 3 files... You can buy a set of 10 good quality jeweller's needle files for less than half that in other stores. You would have to be stupid to buy your tools there.

Unfortunately for things like Space Marines you don't have the option of buying them from a competitor, so you have to pay GW prices. £8 would be a reasonable price for 5 space marines, and they would probably be making a decent profit at that. £15 would be way over the top. Games Workshop charge £20.

There are lots of things I buy that I feel quite happy about the price (most things). I do buy GW stuff because I want it, but I'm very unhappy about the price because I know I'm being ridiculously ripped off. I feel stupid giving them that much money for so little, and my gf thinks I'm insane... I think I must be.

Dude Stop complaining about UK prices. 50 AUD only buys a rhino in aus, I have about 2000 points worth of orks back home in Aus and that took me 2 years to collect just because of prices, I then moved to the UK in march this year and now i live in London, and in the three months I had collected a full 1750 Space wolf list, plus a few extras, the entire Horus Heresy, carry case, paints dice, tape measure, all of which came from GW and I have not even come close to what i spent on my orks.

Here an example of the price difference, take into account that australia is on the opposite side of the world, so shipping costs and added, then australian GST etc...

Army Box: Uk 50 GBP

Aus 150 AUD


with the current exchange rate 150 AUD is worth 85.6 GBP. That is more than 45% more in price, now I don't mind paying that much for a hobby that i love and i did for many years but since i have been here all i have heard from English hobbyists is that " Its so expensive ". I guess what started me off was when you said that 50 AUD wouldn't buy a tank over here but actually It would buy a Rhino, Spray Paint, Glue. All you need to play the game.

On another note I have had many trips down to the local GW and they were telling me the other day the only reason prices have gone up is because of the VAT, and if GW had left there prices at the same level as before they would be losing money, so all this talk of them raising the prices just to see how far they can push our pockets is rubbish. At the moment they are struggling to take profit and having people, especially veterans who have supported and enjoyed the hobby for a long time, attacking them for being over expensive or exploiting their customers is just in bad taste.

and remember no matter how bad you think it is here, in Australia we pay almost double for our hobby and we dont have acces to warhammer world. All I know is that while I am in the UK i will be taking advantage of the cheap product.

thats my 2 cents anyway,

peace out

30 years from now GW will be looked upon as a message to all companies to treat their customers with respect and stick to what they do best(at this point GW won't be a company anymore)

twistinthunder wrote:30 years from now GW will be looked upon as a message to all companies to treat their customers with respect and stick to what they do best(at this point GW won't be a company anymore)

That's a bold statement, and honestly, unlikely.

Replace "all" with "the three or four companies in the miniatures and niche gaming market" and you may be closer to the mark. AT&T or Virgin Mobile won't give a single thought to how GW ran their business model.

Not to sound combative, but how do you know what the profit margin is? How much would the company make if they sold them at your "reasonable" price?

You make a good point and I don't know. But the main clue is that a few months ago I bought 10 plastic skeletons for £10, 10 plastic Demonettes for £12, and 5 plastic Sanguinary guard for £20.

I don't think it is unfair to assume that all the boxes cost about the same to produce, and transport. The cost of having the kit sculpted and the mold built was probably the same. The kits have similar amounts of plastic... But in any case plastic is dirt cheap. If it wasn't GW obviously wouldn't be so liberal with sprues.

So why is there a £10 difference in price? In terms of cost it doesn't make sense. The obvious reason is that GW slapped an extra £10 on Sanguinary Guard because they believe they can squeeze an extra £10 out of people that way.

There is also the fact that GW used to sell plastic miniatures for very cheap. 30 marines for £10. A Rhino for £5. If we go back to 1996 most plastic model kits were 5-10 pound for 10 miniatures.

Cost of production may have risen since then, but they haven't risen hundreds of percent. What has been an issue is the rising price of tin.

To cope with fluctuating tin prices, GW is moving their miniature range over to plastic as part of their risk management. However! they aren't going to charge plastic prices. Instead they are charging for plastic what they used to charge for metal... It's quite sneaky actually.

Burto89 wrote:Dude Stop complaining about UK prices.

I never complained about UK prices, I believe UK prices are generally a bit cheaper that abroad. But I only have UK prices as a reference. Sebster claimed he spent around $25 per month. My point was that either stuff is very cheap there (doubtful) or he doesn't buy very much / downplaying how much he spends (probably one of those.

Please keep in mind that GW is not a person, it does not have emotions or loyalty or malice... it is simply a construct, a machine who's sole purpose is to generate profit for those who own it.

As long as it can continue to generate profit on an ever increasing scale (because that is the definition of a successful business model), the "hobby" will be safe and sustained. If they find a different way to generate more profit using their intellectual capital (as CT suggests), you can count on the fact that they'll do it. Hobby be damned. That is the nature of business... plain and simple.

GW haters and GW apologists are two sides of the same coin, equally ridiculous... or perhaps naive would be a better word. Relax, enjoy the ride. If you get priced out so be it... happens all the time, find another hobby or take your gaming "off-the-grid" with the models and rules you've already purchased. That's perfectly fine. If they find a better way to make money that's perfectly fine too... they're a business, that's their right.

I'm reminded of a great old song I heard last night by Bob Seger... called "Night Moves". A line in the song states...

"I used her, she used me, but neither one cared... we were gettin' our share."

That's kind of how I look at the relationship between GW and it's hobbyists. As long as we both get enough of what we need out of the relationship, it keeps going. When either side feels slighted... you bail. That's the nature of the beast: the sooner you come to terms with it, the more you can enjoy it while things are good & the less it'll hurt when things go bad.


(Edited for typos & clarity - Gits)

Gitsplitta,

If your 1,135 other posts are as intuitive and even handed as that one, I may consider raising my children in Madison Wisconsin, where they might soak up some of your radiant wisdom.

LOL! Well, I'm allowed my "moments of clarity"... says so in my contract. (at least that's what I tell my wife)

Burto89 wrote:At the moment they are struggling to take profit

Yeah that can happen when you price yourself out of the market. The key to a successful business model is prices that reflect and encourage demand. If you look at the other topic running at the moment 'If money was no object' that might give you an idea of how much people would actually like to buy before there is no longer a demand.

I saw people talking about a whole space marine chapter with vehicles. I can't say I haven't dreamed of this my self on occasion. Something like that could easily set you back £5000. It's rare that you see anyone with an army that big though.

I think the biggest marine armies I generally see are about 2 companies inc vehicles. So for arguments sake I would suggest that the most you could expect a gamer to spend over their career is 1-2k.

That suggests that If marine squads and rhinos were £10 each, there would still be demand. So people wouldn't spend less they would just buy more, and probably spend more because it's a better deal. Also people who aren't willing to spend £20 per box but are willing to spend £10 per box would also buy more. If more people buy more units and spend more money then that can only be good for business.

At the moment GW prices are way disproportional to demand.

SmackCakes wrote:I saw people talking about a whole space marine chapter with vehicles. I can't say I haven't dreamed of this my self on occasion. Something like that could easily set you back £5000. It's rare that you see anyone with an army that big though.

I think your numbers are way off. A marine company with vehicles is about £1400 so a chapter is a hell of a lot more than £5K!

The reason you don't see people collecting more than a company or so is because there's no point to it. They can justify spending the money on stuff they would use but who needs 44 tactical squads?

I never had any problems with the GW staff of my locale GW. They are quite friendly in fact.

This is something for the people telling the others to stop whining about prices;the higher the price,less and less new players=less money for GW=no new stuff=decline in hobby=we're all doomed!
EVERYONE has a hobby cut off point.The more the price goes up,the more players give up;its only plastic afterall not a precious substance!
Edinburgh staff are generally great,never had a problem with them,they know when to stop.

I've only ever had one bad GW staff member experience, out of the 17-18 years in the hobby/game and 4-5 different GW shops. Every other staff member I have come across, even in the outside world of the GW shop have been great(at least to your face anyways).

I think maybe, if anyone has that many bad experiences of GW staff members to say they are all bad, then maybe it's you? ( people in general)

Gitsplitta wrote:That's kind of how I look at the relationship between GW and it's hobbyists. As long as we both get enough of what we need out of the relationship, it keeps going. When either side feels slighted... you bail. That's the nature of the beast: the sooner you come to terms with it, the more you can enjoy it while things are good & the less it'll hurt when things go bad.
(Edited for typos & clarity - Gits)

That's a pretty great explaination. The GW hobby is definitely a relationship. It's a relationship that includes great miniatures, a built-in gaming community (read easy to find a game), but at a fairly steep cost.

I think that's the root of alot of peoples frustration, they hate the GW cost, but they find it really hard to stop buying the models, or they really value the built-in community that GW gaming provides.

No one wants to go, it alone, and many GW gamers don't have a clue what kind of gaming community is there outside GW. Thus every month or so someone says GW stinks (or GW's too expensive, or GW's employee's are awful) but rather than just moving on someone encourages a boycot, or predicts the end of the company to try and get other folks to leave with them. Yet the truth is that it never works, GW will increase their prices next year, GW will not listen to it's customers and GW will be around for a long time.

So to the disaffected GW'er, I say "Listen to Gitsplitta. A relationship it is, but it ain't a marriage. You can explore other options, see what's out there, play another game on the side, meet gamers who arent' GW'centric. If it comes time to split it won't hurt so much, and as many once-former GW'ers have said, you can always come back."

In case anyone is wondering, I do practice what I preach. I play 40k and a couple other much less expensive games, and it's really nice to have options.

Eilif wrote:A relationship it is, but it ain't a marriage.

Amen brother. I wanted to work that analogy in, but couldn't figure out how... you've done it masterfully.


...


BTW, I may make the "listen to Gitsplitta" a part of my sig... no one's EVER said that before! LOL!

Wings of Light wrote:Hello my friends!

I found that GW has changed a lot over the years(it might only be moments for some of the vets here, I've only played this game for...not very long and I see the change of them)They used to have really nice staff members and a good system of introducing and teaching.Now they are rising the prices of everything, and with new players, they give them a brief demo game and start telling them "you should buy this".

Another issue is how they treat the vets...When 8th ed fantasy first came out, GW staff told every veteran in my LFGS to buy the book.Its like all they care is money, the old "gaming community" concept is breaking apart!Its like how Saruman abandoned the forest for his desires...

As a young gamer, I see the end of GW coming at them rapidly.They are dooming themselves, and if they dont do anything about it, they will start shrinking instead of expending.This, of course, is only my personal opinion.

What do you think?Will they change their attitude?Any thoughts from a different perspective?
Speak your mind

(I might have a lot of grammer mistakes in this thread, but I just want to make my point here)

Welcome to the daily gripes of a 40K player.