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Rokkits are cool, Kanz with rokkits are pretty powerful.

Tankbustas seem cool on paper, but I keep saying this, Tankbustas are not a shooty unit, they all have a better krak grenade, their best chance to kill a tank is to punch it a bunch of times (and wail on it with tank-hammers)

Deffkoptas and warbuggies are a decent place for rokkits. I think that if you are running a 30 man slugga mob, they should carry rokkits (donno why you would do that though...shoota boyz are better, and they should be running every turn the are not within 12" of an enemy)

The reason I'm ok with rokkits on boyz is otherwise the boyz have no chance to pop a rhino. It might be sub-optimal, but it's there. The rokkits give you a chance (it's not a good one, but it's a chance) Also, I was playing a game VS necrons, and the deceiver was sitting in front of a unit of boyz about to charge them, but he'd been punched a bit before, so only had one wound left. A boy took aim with a rokkit, and the deceiver proceeds to fail his invulnerable save!

None of the other weapons in the boyz mob had a good chance of hurting that monster, the rokkit gave me a chance.

My regular Ork Opponent takes a lot of rockits now, after fighting my mech/Gunline hybrid Tau with Flechettes on all vehicles. He used to run a green tide/kan wall with 2 truck, 1 nob/1boyz.Since kan wall doesn't last very long vs tau it went something like:

30 boyz run up the field. Empty Devil fish moves 12" and blocks movement of boyz. Boyz charge Devilfish, take flechettes hits killing 10 on average, and the nob needs 6's to hit said Fish.

Now he runs mech with shoota boyz with rockits every where.

Don't forget small range... Only 24''... That means fast armies can stay out of rokkit bubble... And s8 isn't all that good... You can have lot of s7 with lootas, and taking out light transporters is pretty good with them...

Most fast armies meaning?

Most fast armies are moving toward you, last time I checked.

Against Tau, they cannot stay out of range forever...

The issue with Tankbustas is this: Lootas do it better.

DarkHound wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Strange that the source of rokkits i see in horde lists are either kans or suicide koptas

Now that was really rude. By that you mean 'your army isn't widely used so your list, and by extension the person who built the list, can't be good.' I'll just point at Dash of Pepper; he's kicking ass with a Necron list he built himself.

Didnt mean to be rude. Just that I havent really seen people talk about busters in horde list. I think they would work great in a trukk. 36" range by default is pretty darn good deal imo. Great for those Tank Hammers

Lootas cannot move and shoot, Lootas are less effective against TMC with a 3+ save...

Even with the 45 shots, you are wounding on 3+ and the Tankbustas are wounding on 2+... you may have 3x the shots but only a third of your shots result in a unsaved wound.

9/10 of the time I would be all for lootas, but the list he is talking about cannot incorporate lootas into it.

How are you going to get them Tankbustas into a trukk then hey?

I would imagine that he would take diversified Nobz and have them walking... At that point, why not take a battlewagon?

DarkHound wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Strange that the source of rokkits i see in horde lists are either kans or suicide koptas

Now that was really rude. By that you mean 'your army isn't widely used so your list, and by extension the person who built the list, can't be good.' I'll just point at Dash of Pepper; he's kicking ass with a Necron list he built himself.

Saints preserve us. Dash invented "Monolith Spam + Deceiver"?

OT:

Rokkits are great on Kans and Koptas and I'd even go so far as to say that I don't know why I don't see more Rokkit Buggies.

In every other Ork unit though, I have to go with my friend's advice who does very well with Orks. If you're far enough away that you'd be shooting, you should be running.

No, Dash didn't invent it, but he made it META.

Gwar! wrote:No, Dash didn't invent it, but he made it META.

Fair enough.

I'm going to beat all you hipsters to the punch and be the first, official post-META Dakkaite.

QuietOrkmi wrote:I would imagine that he would take diversified Nobz and have them walking... At that point, why not take a battlewagon?

True. Stuffing in 15 tankbustas in a wagon is good for protection. Boarding plank for rokkit hammer

th3eviltwin wrote:really why don't they?

Cuz they miss all the time. And they are only 24 inch range.

QuietOrkmi wrote:Most fast armies meaning?

Most fast armies are moving toward you, last time I checked.

Against Tau, they cannot stay out of range forever...

Oh really? And what about eldar mech spam? Try to use rokkits against those damn falcons and serpents...

Chinchilla wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:Most fast armies meaning?

Most fast armies are moving toward you, last time I checked.

Against Tau, they cannot stay out of range forever...

Oh really? And what about eldar mech spam? Try to use rokkits against those damn falcons and serpents...

Agreed. Most fast armies are out-maneuvering you, often times moving further from your units rather than closer. It's only the most CC focused that charge directly at you.

Isn't it fortunate several of the units that can take Rokkits can keep up with even the fastest armies?

Infantry mounted rokkits are to be used defensively, popping transports prior to assault and adding wounds to MCs to make the Powerklaw more effective. The faster platforms are offensive, taking out backfield artillery and running down skimmers.

These are the rules I just made up.

Still, spending 10 pts on rokkit that will go footy is not worth it imo... But for speed and rokkit I agree... If it wasn't like that, orks would be very uncompetitive... Already, only playable solution to heavy armor is deff rolla an PK... Not too good...
As for rokkit, lootas fulfill light transporter popping quite better than rokkit... If there were no lootas, people would spam rokkits... But this way, it's better to add 2x5 lootas and have average 20 s7 shots on transporters then put in rokkits...

Chinchilla wrote:Still, spending 10 pts on rokkit that will go footy is not worth it imo... But for speed and rokkit I agree... If it wasn't like that, orks would be very uncompetitive... Already, only playable solution to heavy armor is deff rolla an PK... Not too good...
As for rokkit, lootas fulfill light transporter popping quite better than rokkit... If there were no lootas, people would spam rokkits... But this way, it's better to add 2x5 lootas and have average 20 s7 shots on transporters then put in rokkits...

Lootas are not better than Tankbustas; at best they are different. On average they have marginally higher penetration rates. What they sacrifice to get a higher output is much weaker morale, they are immobile, and vulnerable to close combat. Their random firing rates are as much a boon as a detriment. Tankbustas gain much stronger morale (Nob with BP to take an extra hit and re-roll morale), and their mobility works to keep them near the boyz even if you're running a mech list, so they have support to keep them out of close combat. Then of course, you can pay for Bomb Squigs, which will push their damage output way over the Lootas, but since they can hit another target you are less likely to over-kill units. If you're running them in a horde, you can use them to prevent Tank Shocks (which are the most lethal thing to hordes). If you're running them mech, you'll probably be able to get into close combat where their grenades will do incredible damage, especially if you can catch multiple tanks. I don't like Tank Hammers because Tankbusta bombs are so good, but I do recognise how effective they are.

So, now you're thinking: 'he must be overstating the Tankbustas and understating how much higher output the Lootas have.' Lootas get an average of .22 pens per model (not per shot) against AV11, and .11 against AV12. Tankbustas get .17 pens per model against AV11 and .11 against AV12. What the Lootas gain in range, the Tankbustas make up in mobility.

As a side note, use periods instead of ellipses. Ellipses are for when you want to ommit words, often when quoting material.

No, i meant giving boyz rokkit... Bustas are totally different, I agree...
What i wanted to say, better to put in lootas to take care of light transport and not to put 8 rokkits on boyz... Only that... Tankbustas, I agree... Especially if you can play them wisely... 15 s8 shots comming from AV14 transport with 4+ cover is quite nice

because there are better options...

Why waste the points taking every rokkit in every place you can in a list, when nearly all of your models are BS2?

Theyre most worthwhile to take on Kans, theres little point in taking them in bulk elsewhere.

somecallmeJack wrote:because there are better options...

Those being?

The better option is not to waste the points for 'em.

If you're taking three rokkits on a squad of boyz, that's 30 points. If you're running horde, you might be taking up to 18 rokkits on boyz, in which case you save 180 points by not taking them.

180 points can get you;

-3 MANZ in a trukk
-3-5 Nobz in a trukk
-5 kommandos with Snikrot
-12 Lootas
-Two squads of Warbuggies, one of 3 and one of 2, all with TL rokkits
-Wazdakka Gutsmek
-Two SAG Meks
-12 Stormboyz, with a PK Nob

The list goes on. There are many more effective ways to spend your points. Rokkits simply aren't worth it on boyz. If you're shooting at infantry, you'd have done better with big shootas; if you're shooting at vehicles, you're wasting all the other firepower of your mob.

Boyz are anti-infantry. Putting rokkits on them merely tempts you to use them for a role that they cannot perform effectively.

I've seen tankbustas used effectively in a horde-like force. They sat in terrain in the center while the ork advance came on either side. Their threat was in preventing the space marine player effective counterstrike movement in the middle, jeopardizing rhinos, dreads and marines alike. I prefer rokkits on buggies and deffkoptas, but tankbustas work too.