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I have friends who graduated from Rice; don't insult that fine institution!

In terms of your credibility - whether your posts have *ANYTHING* useful in them or not is completely irrelevant when you LEAD OFF your attack salvo with suggestions to break the rules. You get instantly dismissed as a beardy kook. As of right now, you are a beardy kook on Dakka. And your request, "Just ignore the parts you disagree with" is pointless advice because you LEAD with those parts. I bet half the people in this thread didn't even read your entire first post, given the offensive nature of the first piece of it.

That is the direct result of how you choose to present information. You're looking for 1/30 people who will not respond with....a disparaging remark. Then take this as constructive criticism. Establish your usefulness on Dakka as a contributing member in some way before flying off the hook with divisive issues. Because the SME on something, such that people message you for help on that topic. I haven't posted in any ork threads in months, and I still get daily messages asking for help with ork tactics and lists, and suggestions, critiques, etc. Why don't YOU strive to become the Tyranid Subject Matter Expert (SME) - write long, intelligent, coherent posts that people can gain wisdom and insight from, and save the questionable content for much later when you have a platform to espouse your views from.

cool story, bro

Ian Sturrock wrote:You can't join a Prime to a Tyrant. You can join a Prime to a unit of Hive Guard that has a Tyrant joined to it, but they would already have a cover save.

No, you definately can. You can attach an Independent character to whichever unit you'd like.
Hiveguard cant join a tyrant either. Tyrant guard are expensive. I noticed most people already like playing with some kind of tyrant and a prime, so there you go. A nice little variable formation. I could attach the prime to a harpy round one. The rules for an IC joining and leaving a unit say leaving the unit is as easy as moving out of coherancy. So the harpy just moves its 12" away from the prime, and the prime can't keep up. Shabang, unit split up. and If you've moved the prime within 2" of a warrior unit, he gets absorbed to give them the benefits of Alpha Warrior.

Niiai wrote:
Alsom, you might be right, I will just take your word for it. But never since overwatch, DH or WH has it been alloved to shoot during an oponents turn. After you spend some 15 minuts to look it up and write it down, nobody in eather a friendly game or at a tournament is gonne let your tyranofexes shoot during your oponents turn.

You don't have to take my word for it, I provided all the necessary quotation. Take the rulebooks word on it. I've spent more than 15 mins on it so that it can be discussed in a more expedient manner. That above is what I think about it and how I'm playing the rule. You don't like it, argue it in YMDC instead of passing over other content to harp on that one. But if you'e worried about spam and still want to post here, please try and correct someone's post or add something in a constructive manner. Saying I'm a very bad man is something I already know. Its cold, shriveled, and black inside. My soul reads like a dark eldar teenager's study hall notebook margins. But so what. I have rulebook quotes and like 20 precedents on an unqualified phase always happening during both phases. I also spend the time to type out long, thought out blocks of text to help explain my point. So you're right. Its terrible when someone just posts some crap just to be posting it. Thank you for adding another to my tally of people who come to admit that I'm probably right, as soon as you check a rulebook to make sure or something. Go ahead and check.
Then come back and make a post of Tyranid strategy that isn't a unit review. I'd appreciate it.

I must apoleguise, this was the wrong place to express my consern in general for the Dakka Dakka forums.

I suggest that we go back and edit away the meta-posts in this thread so that it can be what Doomthumbs actualy want it to be about. Let us just burry the hatchet.

[Edit after reading above] Woo go Owls. I never insulted it, I just asked for whether or not it was decent enough to qualify me as having gone to a Law School as a joke. Also, I think Dash was talking to me, not the United Dyslexian Front.
I'm pretty fond of it, as an Alumni. Kinda really fond of it as a respected school that got me my job, since my boss went there. So... tell your friends they made a good choice.

Dashofpepper wrote:I have friends who graduated from Rice; don't insult that fine institution!

That is the direct result of how you choose to present information. You're looking for 1/30 people who will not respond with....a disparaging remark. Then take this as constructive criticism. Establish your usefulness on Dakka as a contributing member in some way before flying off the hook with divisive issues. Because the SME on something, such that people message you for help on that topic. I haven't posted in any ork threads in months, and I still get daily messages asking for help with ork tactics and lists, and suggestions, critiques, etc. Why don't YOU strive to become the Tyranid Subject Matter Expert (SME) - write long, intelligent, coherent posts that people can gain wisdom and insight from, and save the questionable content for much later when you have a platform to espouse your views from.

I kinda plan to. I'm at about 200 posts. I post army lists without spam, and a writeup of how to play them in new and fun ways.
If only I can just keep my head above this surging current of encouragement.
My platform is now and will always be that the game should be fun. The part of my post that used to lead my has been moved from the top since waaay long ago. But its still all anyone sees, they skip past genuine tactics, focus straight in on that, then tune out again once it gets to the part where I say don't be a dick, don't play like that unless the other guy is. Maybe 2 people have said that putting models so that whatever is inside a landraider dies instantly is a good idea. IMO, its a great idea. Always does goood things for me.
Are you here to talk about that though? Nope, the Ork SME brings insults and offers of "keep at it" to the table.
So thanks I guess. 29 more to go until then.



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Niiai wrote:I suggest that we go back and edit away the meta-posts in this thread so that it can be what Doomthumbs actualy want it to be about. Let us just burry the hatchet.

I'd love you more, but I worry about charges being pressed. Great idea.

Id love to hear any tactics that people have been told suck, specifically. I want to try and make some of them work. Pyrobomb will always suck though. Always.

Sorry -- meant to say that you can attach a Prime to a unit of *Tyrant Guard* that has a Hive Tyrant in (not a unit of Hive Guard, obviously).

BRB on attaching ICs to units: "They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)." (p. 48)

A Hive Tyrant unit always consists of a single model. You can join a Hive Tyrant to a unit of Tyrant Guard, because the special rules in the Tyranid codex allow you to do so. You can also join a Tyranid Prime to a unit of Tyrant Guard (whether or not said unit is attached to a Hive Tyrant -- which could potentially be interesting, I suppose, if you had a winged Tyrant and wanted to use the Hive Guard with just the Prime, for cheap lash whips and a few T6 wounds).

Close, but you're leaving something out. The truth, mostly, but words, too.

Pg 48 BRB. "They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons and units that always consist of a single model (Like MOST vehicles and monsterous creatures."

Hive Tyrants must always be a single model? I thought they had a special made retinue if you wanted. No, you're making stuff up and leaving words out to support your argument, without adding any tactics.

[Edit: Whoa, standing down. Part of that is actually brilliant. Giving you credit on the main part.]

I think you are living in 4th edition Doomthumbs. The Hive Tyrant is a singel model. For each hive tyrant you get the option of bying a second HQ choise that does not use up a FO slot. And during deployment you can have the Hive Tyrant join that unit as though he was an IC, but he will not be an IC from that point forward (Tyranid FAQ.)

Doomthumbs wrote:
Pg 48 BRB. "They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons and units that always consist of a single model (Like MOST vehicles and monsterous creatures."

Hive Tyrants must always be a single model? I thought they had a special made retinue if you wanted. No, you're making stuff up and leaving words out to support your argument, without adding any tactics.

A hive tyrant unit always consists of the hive tyrant. A hive tyrant that joins tyrant guard is no longer a hive tyrant unit. He's part of a complex unit that can now be joined by a prime. The tyrant has to be part of the complex unit before the prime can join. You can't join the prime to the tyrant based on the notion that the tyrant has the potential to be joined to tyrant guard, without actually joining him to the guard.

Get real, man. Primes can also join carnifexes, but not trygons.

Right. The prime can't join the trygon for the same reason he can't join a tyrant.

But it doesn't "always consist of a single model" then. The unit can be joined by other stuff that you buy as an upgrade. Disqualifies "always". Carnifexes come in packs of up to 3, so I can join it to just one.
Trygons do not. No primes for them. Tervigons the same. Harpies too, though I think I said otherwise elsewhere.

But Tyrant? Naw.

A hive tyrant unit always consists of a single model. You can't buy a unit of two tyrants. The moment a tyrant joins with tyrant guard he is no longer a hive tyrant unit. Therefore a hive tyrant unit always consists of one model and cannot be joined by an independent character. A carnifex unit contains from one to three carnifexes so a carnifex unit doesn't always consist of a single model.

But because there is the option to add Tyrant guard, it isn't ALWAYS alone. The unit by itself is one model, who can be joined by others. Mephiston is a great counterexample. That guy can't join anything. Vampire Jesus is always alone. Hive tyrant.... not so much.
And if I play Ian Sturrock's strategy, you can't deny that its in fact a strong likelyhood of there being a flyrant that will swoop back to join the unit later.

I would have to say you are arguing semantics at this point. The fact that you buy a Hive Tyrant alone is just that, a FACT. The hive Tyrant is unit size 1. He will then ALLOW you to purchase another HQ CHOICE, called TYRANT GUARD. Those Tyrant guard allow the Hive Tyrant to join them thanks to their special rules. They are NOT purchased WITH the Hive Tyrant, the Hive Tyrant allows them to be taken by unlocking them on the Force Org.

The Tyrant himself is still unit size 1 regardless.

However, lots of good stuff in the thread. Keep it up.

Yes, but by virtue of that fact alone he isn't ALWAYS alone.
Him being joined to Tyrant guard last game is acceptable for him not being alone. He has the possibility of things joining him.

Thank you, I will as long as I can before the replies all start looking like just arguing instead of constructive arguing.

I still stand by my prior statement that If its just arguing or saying its bad, I'm going to make fun of you a little in my rebuttal. Fair warning.

I had always read the Tyrant + Tyrant Guard unit as allowing a prime to join them.
That said, I understand why folks say otherwise entirely and so never try to play that I can.

Agreed. Besides- deathstars are fun and tramply, but I want fresh stuff without a new army.

kirsanth wrote:I had always read the Tyrant + Tyrant Guard unit as allowing a prime to join them.
That said, I understand why folks say otherwise entirely and so never try to play that I can.

The logic on a prime being joined to a unit of tyrant guard + tyrant is straighforward. A tyrant guard unit doesn't always consist of a single model and so it can be joined by the prime whether it has an attached tyrant or not . That's not what's being discussed here though. The issue here is whether a lone tyrant can be joined by a prime.

What I meant is that I understand your point entirely.

However, a Hive Tyrant is not restricted to being in a unit consisting of a single model, it is merely purchaced as such.

editing because I wrote it backwards.

I read it as being possible. I read it as being restricted.
I play it as restricted as that is least beneficial to me.
If it was your Tyranids and my marines, I would have no issue you playing it as possible.

Arschbombe wrote:The issue here is whether a lone tyrant can be joined by a prime.

Or it would be, except that I don't care or think anyone else does right now. I want ideas even if they suck or require research on to see if they're legal.
I don't want to talk about that here. I just want the raw, untainted thought. You're providing nothing further on that, so please stop.

To put it like this: Every Saturday is my Warhammer day. I get all day long. Its my day. Who elses day might it be? The Wife. Seeing as how I love her and put her/our needs above my own, she comes first 6 days a week. Saturday, from about noon to ten pm straight, is not one of those days. But when I come home and she says 'How was your night?' and I reply' I used a tyrant deathstar and 2 tervigons 2 trygons 2 tyrannofexes and 9 hiveguard to beat face. It was awesome.', she asks "Isn't that what you used last week?".

And the week before that. Instead of getting to geek out for another hour talking my game up to my lady, thats my warhammer day done for another week unless I can squeeze a game in. So please, give me something else to talk about instead of this same bland chicken flavored biomass.


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Hell, give me something that will lose, but still be fun to play.

The point of the Prime attached to the Tyrant with guard isn't to give it a cover save... putting it like that actually makes it harder to get cover. The reason is to get access to 3 free wounds for around the same points as a guard, those wounds being able to regen. Multiple Toughness lets your prime become T6 (though subject to ID on S10 weapons still...) all these extra wounds benifiting from a 3+ armor and hopefully a 4+ cover, wile the Tyrant benifits from a 2+ save with 4+ cover, 5 of these wounds able to be regenerated (the tyant has 4 wounds, so is allowed to loose 3, the Prime has 3 wounds, allowed to loose 2)

I don't like the deathstar tyrant to much. It is a lot of points for an indestructable unit that is to slow to do anything of importance.

Agreed. Hate it, know all about it. Whatcha got thats new?

I played Dark Eldar with my drop pod list against raiders/ravager spam. The guy was previously unbeatable in the store because of his darklances and crazy expensive list. 6 drop pods is really evil against DE. I podded in 2 carnifex with devourers and bioplasma each in their own spore and it was massively effective. I may have gotten lucky, but each spore was able to roll 4+ to glance on armor 10, or more.

I use a Prime (BS/LW/regen) with a venomthrope to give a unit of 15 gaunts (AG/TS) cover. The gaunts give Prime/venom a 4+ and any rear attacks have int 1 to assault into DT. Target trouble, do you attack the little rerolling meq killers or the cover provider with wound allocation synapse? 310 pts of fun.

I personally had a reserve list - 6 Zoanthropes across 3 squads, 4 squads of Genestealers (5 each, I think), 20 Hormagaunts, Winged Tyrant, and a Mawloc. Wasn't too effective, but fun to drop all that in and wreck havoc for a turn (Hive Commander was a must).

FAQ kind of ruined that for me. It was the most epic tactic IMO when we had a 2+ reserve from the Tyrants...

Hormagaunts... I hope you were outflanking them... cause in a spore they die.

Mawloc is a one trick pony that might not get its trick. sad really... but true.

Added some stuff to the original post, including a link to a viable use for the trygon hole, with pics!

Good stuff here, not sure why all the arguing.

Seems like having more MCs in your codex would be a great thing if you could shoot twice. Maybe its in there as compensation against tanks? I dunno.

Since I'm planning to start a Tyranid army I find this very interesting. If anyone has any fun Lictor/Deathleaper tactics to share I'm all ears. Only one I've heard so far is to use the Deathleaper to contest objects late game. Althought I can see "It's after me" being effective if you combine it with a 2xBonesword/Psychic Scream Tyrant and some Broodlords. I wonder if you could build an entire list around reducing the enemys morale?

To add, I enjoy deep striking small units of gargoyles into the fray, in conjunction with large units of zoanthropes. Expensive? Can be. Useful? Definately.

Normally relying on deep strike is a bad thing, however, Gargoyle units are cheap, and, about as expendable as hormagaunts. You get a unit of 20 for a little over 100 points. Your enemy will be focusing on the bigger scaries, your tyrant, carnifexes, trygons, etc... While the Zoanthropes soak up some fire, and the gargoyles sit there maybe loosing 5 or 6 due to small arms fire. The subsequent turn continues to lay down a respectable amount of fire, and assault with the gargoyles' 6s to hit instant wound.

*deposits 2 pennies into drop box*

Doomthumbs wrote:Yes, but by virtue of that fact alone he isn't ALWAYS alone.
Him being joined to Tyrant guard last game is acceptable for him not being alone. He has the possibility of things joining him.

Thank you, I will as long as I can before the replies all start looking like just arguing instead of constructive arguing.

I still stand by my prior statement that If its just arguing or saying its bad, I'm going to make fun of you a little in my rebuttal. Fair warning.

Look, if you're claiming the unit of 1 Tyrant can be joined by IC's because he can sometimes have another force org choice work with him...
Great!

Since my Land Raider can have 10 guys ride inside and doesn't take up space on the force org, it isn't always a single model either. I'm going to have a Librarian with storm shield join my land raider and give them both a 3+ invul.



As for oddball tyranid ideas:
In a big game (I ran 1500 eldar, joined with 2500 marines against 4,000 tyranids); the Tyranid Player ran something like 9 Lictors. It's not the best plan for kill points, but having those S6 rending guys come in all over was a pain in the butt. Then the flying tyranid warriors and flying rippers rained down on us.
I sometimes think tyranid players read the doom and the hive guard, then skipped past the rest of the elites.

-Matt