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How to Eat, for Tyranids

Welcome to my post. I hope you hate it and want to tell me all about why, as long as you post a new way to use Tyranids. I don't care if its bad. Or even technically cheating.
I mean really. Even if you've only got a story where you had a situation where your nids did something cool. Repeat that. Tell us what you did. Me, specifically. What caused win?
Some of this (the last one) is some laughable crazy stuff, folks. Don't prove to me how smart (or otherwise) you are by correcting myself or anyone else. I'll refine all this later.
But for now, gimme all your crazy. Your new ideas get credited in this post in the section flanked by =====, mine just get added to the top of the pile after this paragraph.

Harpies: What to do with a 36" gun.
Harpies are currently unsupplied by GW, so how you base them is up to you. You can even give them no base, in which case measurement takes place between the models body.
But what if the model has been mounted on 25" of dowel, straight up from the surface of the board?
Well, :
-anything with a max range of 24" will autofail to hit the harpy's body, even if they stand directly 24" underneath it. Sorry, most units. Melta especially.
-Some quick math: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 . So if one leg is 25", and the Heavy venom cannon shoots 36", how far away can I shoot? 25^2 + X = 36^2. X= 25.9 " away from the dowel bottom.
-You'll notice I didn't say base, I said dowel bottom. Fly freaky, my Tyranid buddies.

Kamikaze Gribbly Strategem. This one is pretty mean.

If you want to run gaunts and genestealers, one of the most effective strategies I use is this: 30 Hormagaunts, plain, advancing and giving cover to the 10 genestealers w/ toxin sacs. Thats 350 points for both units, 40 bodies, and you can do just crazy stuff with it.
Genestealers are almost assured to get the charge, and 10 genestealers get 30 attacks that hit on a 3+. So 20 hits (30 x 2/3). 20 hits that wound on 4+. 15 wounds. 5 rends. [(20x1/6)+(10x1/6)]. Whatever didn't survive charging hormagaunts is now dead, both groups get a consilidate roll, and you use it to do scary stuff. Thats just what they do on a regular day, a screened unit of Genestealers.

At that amount of points, its also pretty easy to justify in your mind that the group is expendable. I will even run them as a suicide unit, not expecting more than one or two to survive (All ya need!). I use the gaunts (gargoyles do this better but Hgaunts are faster than Tgaunts, and I want more troop choices) to move as fast as I can towards the nearest tank. Rhinos, landraiders, whatever. And I use my averagely 11 inches of Hgaunt movement and running to start getting around the disembark points on the tank. Just surround them, sacrificing as many as you need to, which wont be many, the tank will want to kill the genestealers and laugh. Make it so that when you shoot your hive guard/zoans/tyranofex at them, and wreck that tank, and whatever is inside that tank has nowhere to disembark within 2" of an exit point. Or is at least a small enough number of models that aren't destroyed so that your survivors (and now WTF heroes because whatever was in a landraider you just cheesed was more expensive than both groups) are positioned to mow them down on the assault phase.
Or they eat troops, and if any are left alive they can score on objectives. Taking out a landraider's contents doesn't always happen, but the unit works often enough or does its originally intended job very, very well.


Lash Whip and Bonesword Warriors. (Why Don't you have more of them?)

I run a prime with dual boneswords, toxin sacs, regen and Devourer. Hes T5, so he can soak a s8 shot at the group without dying, and maybe even regen it back. He goes with 7 warriors with Lash whip/Bonesword and toxin sacs, also with devourers.
The prime will be focusing his attacks on the most dangerous target, anyone with power fists, etc hoping to cause the instant death on 3d6 for dual boneswords. Works kinda like the broodlords hypnotic gaze, only you kill them instead. everything else has lash whips and power weapon equiv attacks. Even if they get charged, they cut stuff down. The unit becomes something that MUST be dealt with, and costs 460 points. keep them with a gaunt screen and assign the s8 that make it past cover to the prime. Keeps everyone healthy and happy. If even 4 reach combat its really really bad for the other guy.
Whole unit is WS 6, BS4, So 24 devourer shots cause 16 hits and 8 wounds. Thats not too shabby, and is useful to cut down small units. Less expensive than Deathspitters for sure, and the same range. One more strength and AP5 is useful against... Orks? Hopefully a Tyranid player will have something else for Orks.


Getting a Cover Save for Expensive Units.

Whats the biggest point sink in your HQ? A Swarmlord or a Hive Tyrant? Slap a cover save on that unit! In 2500 points if I take either of those I'm taking two tyrant guard. And I'm putting them behind something. Even one unlocks a cover save for the tyrant. Really important stuff, because it means that AP3- weaponry is going to be able to be placed on the tyrant guard, who then get to make a cover save that the Tyrant doesn't get. The Tyrant isn't going to be covered 50% by just about anything. But that doesn't matter, because members of his unit are able to take cover saves, right? Tyrant isn't an Indepedent Character. Can't be picked out of his retinue, so if you're not a nid, start crying. If you are a tyranid, just start breaking them in like a new baseball glove. You can do this same thing with Tyranid Primes and anything they join. They can also start the game attached to anything you'd like, so long as they're there when their game starts and you're not actually joining the unit, just starting with it from the beginning.


Devourers Hurt Bad

So says my chart of the probability of a unit to make its moralecheck.

Ld %
11 97.2
10 91.7
9 83.3
8 72.7
7 58.3
6 41.7
5 27.8
4 16.7
3 8.3
2 2.8

So have some stuff with devourers around. They're even free on some stuff. Maybe cause a weakened unit to fall back.
Not so great for high LD models but around I7 if you're taking -1 modifyers, its looking bleak.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/331081.page Links to a thread I made about using a converted Trygon's hole to leave a cover save for other troops midfield.

=========================================================================================================
How do you use your Tyranids? Don't post that you use tervgons or toxin sacs over adrenal glands, I want to know HOW you use them.
What tips and tricks do you have up your sleeves? [Edits will all be adding new ideas as they come or are posted by you] Credits below!



Connor Suggested a Spore full of Devourer armed Termagants. Thats a great one I'll expand on. Maximum scatter with the spore pod is 12" in any direction. Max range of the devouer is 18". This means that even with full scatter, those gaunts are going to get where you want them, and hit and wound on a 4. 20 Devgants means 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds. 5 MEQs will fail armor saves and take a leadership test at negative one. 240 points for assured weight of fire coming down wherever you want it. Nice one.

Ian Sturrock notes that you can buy a set of tyrant guard and a Flyrant you don't join to them. T6 2W Lash whips. A bit expensive, but worth it? I'm seriously considering having 3 follow my warriors and have the prime fall back into this unit if the warriors get too badly hurt. The prime ends up living, denying a KP because he fell back into some tyrant guard that are able to go to ground. I love it.

Texas Instrument added a Vs DE Tip. Mycetic spores with bioplasma/devourer carnifex inside. Spore has six s6 shots, each capable of glancing DE raiders on 4+. Average 2 hits, thats at least one glance, averagely. Maybe even wrecking it. The carnifex can do the same thing, better with its 6 twin linked shots at a higher BS and bioplasma to another raider, OR it can shoot at whatever the spore opened up. Clustered DE get hit by bioplasma and then braineating worms. That could wipe a whole raider squad. Carnifex assault might do it for sure. Good idea, I also like that a pod list would also deny DE a turn of shooting. Also, I like his name.

=========================================================================================================


[Edit: Moved this next one down from the top. Its long, people seem to really not like it. Really really not like it. I personally like it, because no one can provide a quote as to why it doesn't work other than citing mysterious permission rules. Apparently I also need extra permission to follow the rules as written in some cases but not in others.]

This is the RAW Section. Don't like it? Good. Don't use your own RAW against me, and there won't be an issue. This is divisive, questionably legal stuff here.
And its pretty freakin' awesome that the rules support it all.


Hive Tyrant Leech Essence
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/325972.page
Links to a page that has another way to use RAW to Tyranid advantage. Its a good one, since I know you're using Para/Leech on your Tyrant.


Monsterous Creatures Shooting

Page 15 BRB "Each players force fires during the Shooting phase of his own turn."

Page 9 of the BRB, TURN SEQUENCE EXCEPTIONS says "There are times when a player is allowed to preform actions during their opponents turn."
Oh my GOD, when?! When do I get to do that? Whenever a power only specifies phase, and not turn. This way, it happens every phase, and not just the phase of your own turn. Assaults are the most common example, but there are many precedents in shooting as well.

Page 51 BRB. Shooting. "Instead of firing one weapon, Monsterous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per shooting phase."
What the rulebook just told you is that if you are a MC you can fire two weapons every time a shooting phase comes around. When does that happen?

The Big Rule Book, page 9, GAME TURNS AND PLAYER TURNS. "In a complete game turn, both players get a player turn, each one divided into Movement, Shooting, and Assault phases ". So each game turn there are two shooting phases.
The upper right hand paragraph on page 9 further states: "Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns. Whenever a rule uses the word 'turn', both in this rule book and in the Codexes, it means 'player turn' ". Oh, ok. So if a rule says phase, I do it every phase, and if it says turn, then I do it just on my turn's phase. That seems simple. Lets see if that same usage of language carries across to other parts of the Rulebook, and the Codices as well. Below are some examples.


Page 50 BRB, second paragraph. "Psykers can use one psychic power per player TURN." Specifies player turn. So just on that players player turn.
Page 58 Tyranid Codex, Spirit Leech. "At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's". It does it every phase, even specifies during the foes phase. Neat!
Page 61 Tyranid Codex, Ymgarl Genestealers Alter Form. "At the start of every Assault phase.... cannot choose the same alteration in consecutive player turns." Ok, so if I start using +1 Attack, I can change it during your turn to +1 Toughness. Next turn, I can't use +1 attack in my turn, or +1 Toughness in yours. Makes sense.
Page 48 Tyranid Codex, Living Bomb. "If a Spore mine...ends any movement phase within 2" of an enemy unit, it immediately explodes." Ok, so if at the end of the enemy movement phase, which happened during the same game turn as my movement phase, the enemy is within 2", it blows up. Same usage of phase.
Page 54 Tyranid Codex, "The Mycetic Spore automatically shoots the closest enemy unit in each SHOOTING PHASE it is engaged in close combat." This one says each phase too!
Page 29 IG Codex, second paragraph. " A number of models in the IG army have the ability to issue on or more orders each TURN." Does that mean in my turn? No, just that players player turn. So IG cannot issue orders in my phase.
Page 30 Eldar Codex, Bladestorm. "The Exarch and his squad may choose to add one to the number of shots they make with thier shuriken weapons that turn. If the do so they may not fire in the subsequent shooting phase." This uses turn AND phase, both in the same way as above. They get to shoot 1 more shot this TURN. So this player turn. And in the next phase after that, they can't shoot.
Page 30 Eldar Codex, Defend. "... lose one Attack in each assault phase." Again, usage of phase in same context as the Ymgarl genestealers. The Eldar opponent loses one attack every phase, which means not only the Eldars phase, but during continued combat on the subsequent turn.
Page 57 Space Marine Codex, Librarian Powers. "He can only use one power each player turn..." Again, since it says turn instead of each shooting phase, Libs can only use one power a player turn.
Page 7 BA Codex, Lord of Death. "Mephiston has all three Blood Angels Psychic Powers (see below) and can use each one of them and his Force Weapon once each player turn, rather than being limited as are other Librarians. He may not use the same power more than once per turn."
Page 100 Chaos Codex, Obliterator Cult, Wargear, Obliterator weapons. "One per TURN from..." So Oblits only get to shoot during the owning players turn.

Theres more. Much more. Force weapons and how they can be used in the opponents assault phase as well. But the language and how it is used is persistant throughout all of them. Every time it says you do something in a movement, shooting, or assault phase, you generally do it in EVERY phase, not just yours. Spore mines blow up on the enemy movement phase if the enemy moves within 2". Ymgarls shift every assault phase, not just yours. So by that reasoning, why should the Shooting phase be an exception? It just isn't. The Doom of Malantai has special language that says "including the foes", but it doesn't need to.

So when the rulebook says instead of firing one weapon, Monsterous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per shooting phase, and it does not qualify anything past that, its fair game to assume that you can do it in your opponents phase in addition to your own. Its a huge typo and a huge responsibility for a Tyranid player not to abuse the RAW. But its there if you need it. I only ever mention this during games where the other opponent has begun to abuse a RAW. If theres a sneer on their face while they quote the rule that says the complete crap they're pulling is technically legal, its every bit as technically legal as this one is. Its poorly written, plain and simple. The way it reads allows for serious abuse of a rule. Does it surprise me? No. For the cost of 75 bucks thrown at a coffee barrista with an English degree, you could sort this kind of thing out in a day. Tyranid Termagants lack a U in gaunt like Hormagaunt does. "Termagant: An overbearing or nagging woman : shrew". Dictionary definition. I mean really. Thats pathetic. Two updates, in February and October, and wheres the fix? Its not coming. In fact, the October FAQ covering if thornback biomorph is still usable says no. But it allows you to be using a 4E codex by virtue of the fact that it is shutting down the thornback biomorph specifically, not using the 4e codex instead of the 5E one that came out 9 months previous. In that time I could gestate a freakin' fetus. Thats Long enough to realize someone else in the company made a brand new ruleset for Tyranids.

Be responsible, and don't let people pull minor crazy rules on you. Don't do the same yourself, unless you're faced with it.
If you disagree, quote a rulebook as to why instead of the same trite arguments about how any part of this is wrong. (Along with some new content please)

My Tip? ....(Which has incidentally become a synonym for something extra cheesy and/or overpowered)

....Drednought Librarian....

No Seriously, I am a fan of the Mycetic Spore full of TermaGaunts with Assault 3 brainy leech goodness for 45 shots give or take, hit and wound on a four.

"Page 58 Tyranid Codex, Spirit Leech. "At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's". It does it every phase, even specifies during the foes phase. Neat!"

Ok, I only read part 1, but I think this example actually might shoot that RAW example down. (not sure, it's a maybe) But, since it is a precedent of stating it can be done in the opponent's phase, everything that DOESN'T have this wording, cannot be done in the opposing phase. A lot of RAW arguments bug me because it goes by not what it tells you you can do, but what it DOESN'T tell you. That's my thoughts. Your post is huge and I don't have the time to read through it. My general thoughts is if RAW is starting to look like a loophole, play it fairly for both people. Exploiting RAW, especially to THAT degree, is crazy. I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but I'm pretty sure in the shooting phase section, it probably states SOMETHING along the lines of shooting on your TURN. Eh, whatever.

Flamingwalnut, It just doesn't. I provided every quote that could possibly be applied to your argument. Just because the doom gives extra permission does not change the way it is used throughout each of the several examples I gave. A lot of them are not given specific permission, like the Ymgarls. But thats just how it works universally throughout the codices.

Its not a loophole, its how the rules work. Another great example in the tyranid codex is the Swarmlord. His Swarm Leader ability specifies just on my turn. Why is this different? Because it DOES specify just on my turn. If its just an unmodified phase, the logic and the way the rest of the rules are written says that I get to do it every phase, not just my own.

Whats this "extra" permission you speak of. How does one earn "Extra permission"

I mean, if I have permission, I am gonna normally go for it...

Stay up an hour late? Oh yeah, If I have permission.

What? Have a cookie you say? Yeah! If I have permission.

Three-way with your hot young sister? Yeah! IF I HAVE PERMISSION....

I wonder what "extra" permission would be?

Oh wait, I know.

That would be the permission you would need to try and get, to do anything during your opponents turn, unless specifically worded as it is in the Doom of Malantai.

Nozzel-riffic!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nah... besides, I dont think that this is the place for another "On your turn I....." argument.

Take it to YMDC.

So let me get this straight.

Ymgarls don't change during your phase AND the opponents phase? Theres no permission.
Spore mines DONT blow up when you move within 2" of them? There's only "permission" for it happening on my turn!
Force weapons get a chance to instakill during which phases again? Both? Man, theres no permission for that either.

Are you sure you don't just have your system for how permission works confused? Why again would the Swarmlord specify just my phase? Are you still really sure? I mean, theres all that evidence against it. Its like a mountain of quoted evidence. We can't just sweep that under the rug because you don't like what I'm going to do with it. Its the rules. And when you're sitting in your metal boxes amidst a tyranid swarmed hellscape? That rulebook will be just about the only damned thing left in your life. Hold it close. It will be one of the last shreds of biomass consumed, we assure you.

The rules don't require that anything be added either way. How the rule reads is how the rule reads. That the Doom adds that it does and the Swarmlord specifies it happens only in my phase, don't those two conflicting points cancel each other out? Why are they the only two out of dozens of other examples that follow the version of the rules you propose? I will stick with the overwhelming amount of quoted evidence, and let you take it to YMDC if you so wish. I don't feel that anything here has been fabricated to help me out, its just how the extensively quoted evidence looks. If you disagree, quote a rule as to why. This is a tactics thread, and I am posting tactics. The legitimacy of most of these tactics cannot be denied. They're pretty brutal, but thats not my problem. There are channels for this, places for squabbling over whether or not a rule is valid. This is not that place.

This thread is for posting ways to take tyranids and mash in some face holes.
Whats your favorite way?

Doomthumbs wrote:Page 21"Instead of firing one weapon, Monsterous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per shooting phase."

I think you mean page 51

You are only allowed to shoot during your own shooting phase.
Abilities are different altogether. How about you move this crap to YMDC where it belongs and keep it out of Tactics?

Irdiumstern wrote:Abilities are different altogether. How about you move this crap to YMDC where it belongs and keep it out of Tactics?

I think he's already been chased out of there.

Isn't this just a revisitation of "Permissive vs. restrictive rulings?"

OP: The rules are permissive. They tell you what you are permitted to do in game, not what you are restricted from doing. Presume that you are allowed to do nothing unless given permission to do so by the rulebook. You may not shoot during the opponent phase unless explicitly given permission to do so. You may not move, run, or assault during the opponent turn unless given explicit permission to do so.

*agreed* - this should be in YMDC, or simply locked for beardy attempts at shenanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Doomthumbs wrote:

This thread is for posting ways to take tyranids and mash in some face holes.
Whats your favorite way?

Well, based on your criteria for examples...my favorite way is to take my metal-casted 7 lb. Trygon and bash my opponent's army to pieces while screaming wildly to prevent them from physically retaliating against me. The rules don't say that I can't!

Dashofpepper wrote:Well, based on your criteria for examples...my favorite way is to take my metal-casted 7 lb. Trygon and bash my opponent's army to pieces while screaming wildly to prevent them from physically retaliating against me. The rules don't say that I can't!

Barring the first one on the page, every other tactic posted is pretty legitimate, and in no way warps any rule. So If you don't like it, skip it, move on, and don't add anything unless its constructive. If the rules said you could move your trygon like that, well... then yeah. Go right ahead. But theres no rule that says you can or can't either way. Permissive or not, the rule reads exactly like the examples I gave, all of which are generally accepted as happening in the opponents phase. Even without being told they can further than pg 51 of the brb.
Why again does the swarmlord specifically say you CANT? Its the only one in the Tyranid codex that says it, everything else is assumed to just work as written. And MCs shooting during each phase is written the same way. Again, if you don't like it, please move on.

To be clear, I don't particularly care if you don't like number one on my list. There is no specific rule that allows an embarked mek to count his vehicle as himself for purposes of giving KFF to vehicles 6" from his wagon. But I've heard rumors of you doing this, even though there is no permission written that it applies to anything other than the mek.
But you know it works like that, even though its not written. Anywhere. Theres no permission for your main tactic. Mine is "just in case".
The huge guy across the table drinking rum might even start yelling and smashing my army if I say its not.

Again, lets not post anything thats themed along the lines of "I hate that rule, I hate you, blah blah not contributing to the thread". I've posted my reasoning on why I think that tactic is valid, the other tactics are all extremely valid, sorry if it doesn't specifically say that I can't use it in my opponents phase.

You do realize that shooting rules tell you to shoot during your turn, right? That right there messes up your entire convoluted wall o' text.

The only thing even slightly original in your post is the hormagant stealer combo.And, well, I think you're going to get shot off the table before you get halfway there.
As for surrounding a land raider, there are cheaper, easier, and better ways that aren't as obvious as "look at these 40 low save dudes running up the table". Genestealers infiltrating into cover or outflanking, podding termagants, the pods themselves; all of these things can be effectively used to cut off you're opponent's movement.

From what I've been seeing, most seem to agree that the tyranid codex is very dependent on unit synergy, and, as stated in the excellent 14 page thread currently going, multiple threat vectors. 40 bugs running upfield is going to leave lots of gribbly bits. 60 termagants followed by 2 tyrannofexs, 2 babymamas, a hive tyrant, and some venomthropes coming upfield, while stealers cut off your opponent's retreat is a whole different ballgame.

Edit: Seriously? Big Mek? There's a specific part of the brb about embarked unit's abilities being measured from the transport. How about you go take a look at YMDC and keep this stuff out of tactics?

You realize that I've said to ignore that part if you don't like it? There are plenty of examples of things happening in the opponents turn.

Please, tell me more of your termagant and tervigon combination. I've never heard a word about it. Sounds fascinating.
Brand new way to play Tyranids. I'll add it to the list.

Edit: Thank you for your hesitant approval of some of what I've done here. In my games, if no one has seen deployment denial before, its usually them underestimating the gaunts and then regretting it. If they have, they move a landraider away from it, wasting all kinds of time/firepower. At the very least i get to keep running those units forward screaming boo.

Edit: Content not relevant for the thread.

Niiai wrote:Why on earth would you wanne have a three-way with Doomthumbs and his hot sister? And why on earth do you need premission? It's caled seduction.

Awesome, just plain awesome.

Tactics, indeed!

LOL

She's a documented Vagatarian, so I'm sure that there would be another woman involved.
I'm also sure that insults of that calibur place you in the category of guys that don't know what to do with one woman.
So good luck with that. Its enough to make you go "Premission".

Doomthumbs. . .

Your puns are also awesome.

I always appreciate intended puns.

Sorry for the distraction. . .back to your originally scheduled programming.

Niiai wrote: I honestly feel that people who spend this mutch time on the web rules on a friendly boardgame needs to take up lawschool and do something good with what is to mutch brain activaty.

"to mutch brain activity" Is as far as I need to go, IMO.
But, since I'm actually one of these lawyer types,
Rice University count as decent enough?
Guess what 90% of your Lawyering money and time goes to, currently? Jergens, paying my Rice U Law degree off, Warhammer, and my wife.
Gotta keep that November aired skin and greenstuff lubricated.

Edit: Content not relevant for the thread.

Not sure how organizing information, studying the rules and quoting them robs me of credibility.

I make them because they're fun for me. I get to make a big wall of text that you can take for what it is.

Most leave disparaging remarks, as you have. I either ignore them, or in some cases, make fun of them because they're trying to be an antagonist and failing.
Some are bound to eventually have something decent to say. I'm hoping for 1 out of 30.
These will have something of value to input, and I will save it for later. At the very least, I get better at arguing my point.

He will loose his credabilaty because he spent to mutch time burdied in the big book?

....

....

Sigh.

I actually like the sound of "Loosing my Credibility".
Sounds like its just too much credibility to be contained, and I'm just holding it back like an attack dog.

Whoa there boy!

Wasn't that a song by R.E.M.?

Lol Loosing my Religion would be too directly offensive, I think.

Well it seems like you're less interested in coming up with decent nid ideas and more about arguing about contentious rules interpretations and net drama.

Yes, though, surrounding land raiders is very effective, even though it's no longer as bad as 3rd edition (First time vs. Necrons . . . did not end well)
I'm thinking infiltrating/outflanking genestealers are going to be the most disruptive deployment denial tools. Also, turn 1/2 multicharges with stealers should really bust up transports.

Genestealers don't really bust up transports for me. I rely on other things opening the cans, genestealers are there to deal with that.

What I want more discussion on is swapping a prime back and forth between a MC to give it cover and a group of warriors for Alpha warrior.

Doomthumbs wrote:She's a documented Vagatarian, so I'm sure that there would be another woman involved.
I'm also sure that insults of that calibur place you in the category of guys that don't know what to do with one woman.
So good luck with that. Its enough to make you go "Premission".

Well then, we already have so much in common!

Wait........ is she like Lipstick? or Doc Marten Flannel Shirt Vagatarian?


Sorry.... that was spam. I shall contribute....

ok, so I do like the "Permissive vs. restrictive" argument.... but there is alot about the Tyranids that is OP waaaaaay before the whole MC thing.

I think that the best way to run Tyranids is with MCs a-plenty, but I think that shrikes are an excellent yet overlooked unit.


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I do like the idea of slowing down your MC by trying to get a 4+ cover save. But you should not get your MCs bogged down, Most have a 3+ save, and if you are gonna hold them down by trying to hug cover, then I think you are missing the point. Use the Venomthropes for the cover save and get those bad beasties across the board and pop that rhino spam like they are supposed.

Won't be slowing me down at all, and a 3+ armor save versus lascannon/melta fire is well... Its a short game that way.

Imagine a Prime joined to a Tyrant, surrounded by warriors as a charge screen, and to give the Tyrant unit a cover save via the Prime. You shoot at the tyrant, and hit. But I get to make a cover save, which is better than not making an armor save.
The units both move forward, and the Tyrant and Prime part ways as the Prime moves into coherency with the warriors. Warriors now benefit from the prime in a different way, allowing the list to subtly shift gears from defending to attacking.

Edit: I don't have to hug cover, its coming with me in the form of an IC. Cool, kids. Its a tactic you've never seen before.

You can't join a Prime to a Tyrant. You can join a Prime to a unit of Hive Guard that has a Tyrant joined to it, but they would already have a cover save.

Edit: Spam, not relevant for the intented content of the thread.