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6 reavers with 2x heat lances aren't very expensive..... and are ok at getting the job done.........

I feel your pain Dash, I played old school DE and have started the swap over to the new Codex. I lost horribly to Mech IG almost every time I faced it in the old Codex and things look even more grim in the new codex. It doesn't help that you faced a very capable IG player who is a vet, he knew what needed to go first so your army probably crumbled fast.

Webways are not the answer, even if they could beat IG, webway lists will lose to any non gunline SM and orks and any other competitive list out there. I think the wyches still have a decent chance given first turn, assuming you take the Baron. And you can increase your chances for the good fleet drug by taking the Duke.

Duke plus 10-20 warriors in cover objective camping filling out the rest with wyches with haywire grenades in raiders and triple lance ravagers with the Baron deepstriking as a diversion/vehicle slapper could work. The real problem is wyches aren't that great vs combat oriented non-elite units...

I suggest suicide, thats what I'm considering.

Honestly, a huge factor that I don't believe has been discussed is the ability of the IG to screw with reserves via Officer of the Fleet and Astropath. Even if you build a solid list, one that use WWP (but is not dependent upon it), you're at the mercy of the reserves adjustments without any real response. If you sit on the table with turn 2 and let them fire at you, you're screwed. If you reserve, you're coming in at 5+ first turn, so you're really coming in piecemeal and forget it if you don't get what you need in that first turn.

The only real response may be to have Vect and either the Baron or Lady Malys. Vect gives you a real threat to steal, so you can set yourself up for that and hope for the best. Hell, that 50/50 roll might be your best shot, aside from hoping the threat of Vect screws with the Guard player's mind enough HE goes full reserves. The Baron increases that chance win the initial roll, or you go the other way and use the Lady to try to reposition should you fail to seize.

Either way, it's alpha strike or be alpha striked. In that scenario, I would make damn sure I have enough shooting to crippple them should they set up and I seize. One turn is probably all you need to close the gap and do damage to the armored columns.

Otherwise, you're probably looking at, what, running foot units? Harlies w/ shadowseer or large Warrior blob units leading the way and fleeting across the field? Don't think I like their chances much.

Astropath isn't so much of a problem as IG reserving everything with an astropath isn't as bad for the DE as IG going 1st.

Officer of the Fleet makes reserving everything suicidal. Having only 1/3 of an army come in on turn 2 and turn 3 is totally unacceptable.

Officer of the fleet mathhammer.

Turn 2: The entire army is in reserve. 1/3 units come in on turn 2.

Turn 3: 1/3 of the army is on the table or dead, 2/3 of the army in reserves 1/2 comes in=1/2of2/3=1/3 of the army comes in from reserves.

Turn 4: 2/3 of the army is on the table or dead, 1/3 of the army is in reserves 2/3 of those reserves come in=2/9th of the army comes in from reserves.

Turn 5: 1/9th of the army is still in reserve and they come in on a 2+

Turn 6: Any unlucky units come in automatically if the game didn't end on turn5.

Shouldn't this, at best, be 2 threads?

"What to do when your army has a hard counter?" is a distinctly different topic than "How can Dark Eldar beat Mech IG?"

The replies are mixed in subject.

No one else has said it Dash so Lrn2ply

But seriously it's a tough question. I think the new DE stand up just fine to IG. It's not an easy fight and it's probably the worst codex but it's not an auto-lose by any means. Things are different and need to be used differently. For example 2 squads of bests instead of 1 should keep you in the fight longer. My Baron w/hellions is a good, solid face punch unit against vehicles even if it's upclose and personal. I've found that raw aggression helps enourmously against IG.

Your biggest problem is you went second and worse were seized on after deploying to go first. That's gonna happen. I wouldn't read to much into that game personally. Keep tweaking and tuning, maybe find some new units you like the idea of and branch out. Just some thoughts. Personally I find the new list to be much scarier compared to your 3rd edition DE.

Doesn't need to be two threads. Like any thread there will be significant noise..people posting bad advice, or unrelated messages, or narrow views, mixed with a couple obligatory trolls.

I'm happy for anyone to post anything they want - amidst the noise there are always nuggets of wisdom to find. Whether people talk about DE, or disagree that IG is a hard counter to DE or answer my question,there's something of value to be dug out.

It's called "playing with a new codex" in my neck of the woods.

Even a legend in one's own mind might not go undefeated when trying out a new list against a 'ard build run by an experienced player.

Monster Rain wrote:It's called "playing with a new codex" in my neck of the woods.

Even a legend in one's own mind might not go undefeated when trying out a new list against a 'ard build run by an experienced player.

I'm quite familiar with the codex. Would you care to offer anything to the discussion? Two different categories for you to weigh in on. Just pick one.

As a mech/armoured guard player myself I'll say what scares me.

Turboing reavers with heat lances and deep strikes, so much so that my list is designed to combat DS armies. Also, I don't like wracks because they negate a lot of the S6 shooting and come with FNP already.

This to look out for: Veterans with auto cannons, Hydras (duh) and Hellhounds, hellhounds can really ruin your day

@ Dash- Didn't I already? I'm disagreeing with your premise.

IG isn't a hard counter to DE. Having trouble with Chimera spam isn't unique to this codex.

I believe that its unique to this new Dark Eldar and not the old 3rd edition. Just by looking both codex, the old codex is by far cheaper and able to handle IG Mech or any other army.

I don't follow you. The IG parking lot gives a lot of armies trouble.

How is it unique to DE? The old codex doesn't matter anymore.

I don't know if you play MTG or not but R/P/S has always had and extreme impact on the major tournament "metagame" and scene. In MTG you are allowed a utility "sideboard" to bring in to help against certain matchups, this isn't so much the case with 40k. Some will always play rock with hopes of not playing paper and same for the Paper hoping to only play rock and likewise with scissors....

There are a couple ways to handle this, A- drastically change one of the "big 3" to beat/counter the weaker matchup without diluting too much of the stronger matchup. B- Play ROUGE, totally off the radar and unexpected, this usually requires tons more playtesting and tweaking so that you know each matchup inside and out... Or you can always just play Paper and just outplay your scissor opponents which should be 1, 3 max in a 2 day large event with 5 rounds each day.

cheers

I'm pretty confident that I can table pretty much anyone out there except for Mech IG. And have proven so repeatedly at tournaments and grand tournaments around the country all year long. "Playing more" isn't the solution to my issue.

I can't resist the temptation of asking what do you mean by the statement above? Are you saying you can table any other army out there except Mech IG regardless of mission or who goes first, or are you actually saying you're confident you and your Dark Eldar can table any player in the world playing any other army except mech IG?

I'm happy for anyone to post anything they want - amidst the noise there are always nuggets of wisdom to find.

I'm sure people would be happy if most of your posts made some sense too or if you would even try to back up some of your outrageous claims. Are you even familiar with the concept of a hard counter? You know there's a difference between some army being challenging to play against and being a hard counter? I'm still waiting for you to attempt to explain how SW is a hard counter to IG, DE a hard counter to SW and IG a hard counter to DE, but I guess my question was just background noise and you're waiting for more nuggets of wisdom (For example people completely ignoring the question in the topic of this thread and discussing how best to destroy Chimeras with paper planes.)

I've always found the best solution to the armies you can't beat otherwise, is to make your list specifically to fight whatever that is as best as you can. Then figure out how to use that list against everyone else.

As for how Dark Eldar can beat Mech IG: don't know, don't care.

there seems to be a bad case of "use tactics" in this thread.

I don't know much about the new DE, but I never had problems against the old book with my mech IG, and if the new one didn't fix it... well, it may be a true hard counter.

BTW, wolves are a pretty hard counter to mech IG, especially in it's all AV12 form. That many missiles simply knocks out the IG shooting and/or mobility.

I have a similar problem in my local group, Dash. We have 2 guard players, a player who plays both DE and GK, an Ork player, a Tau player, and a Chaos player. When I was playing Tyranids, I had the problem of creating a way to deal with KFF+1,000 boyz rush, Tank spam, Artillery Spam, DE, and Armored Marines. Frankly, no list I made was up to what I was happy with. I always could see how one of my opponents could beat it, particularly the DE - who I didn't see how to beat without a specific list for him.

As for your specific problem, two thoughts:

1. IG is a counter to everything, in my experience (which you've noted as essentially irrelevant since I don't go to tourneys). The problem with IG is options. They can take what they need to take no matter what. I mean the Hydra is practically a middle finger to Eldar and Dark Eldar. Given the amount of options, you can field whatever army you want. Just look at Ailaros - He plays, statistically, one of the worst armies ever in assault and plays a guard army that assaults. And plays it damn well, too. Gunline is Guard's forte (and being able to do most things better than any other race), means the thing they are good at, they are the best at, sometimes beyond reproach.

2. DE suffer from "paper armor" syndrome, both on their vehicles and their non-vehicles. This means you have to take this into account no matter what. So, since your vehicles can't take hits, make having them take hits be irrelevant. I'm not familiar with tournament "Parking Lot" lists, but I suspect it's vehicle after vehicle of primarily Chimeras and Hydras. Your vehicles are gonna drop, period. There's no getting around it. But if there's a way to make the fact that your vehicles are gonna die not important, then it won't matter. I don't know how to do that, but if you're that much better than me (which I don't doubt), you can probably find a way.

BTW, I don't play Tyranids anymore. I play Eldar. I got tired of losing over and over to everyone.

Eldar have the same if not more of a problem with mech IG.

We get an autarch to make reserving effective, but besides that anti mech isnt very effective.

Idk, in a kill point mission I usually loose, but if there objectives I try to use my speed to save the game. It isnt very fun regardless.

In my playgroup a take all comers list and a defeat the current metagame list are basically the same thing - if you're geared for AV because vehicles are really good and show up all the time then nobody is going to complain when they bring out their all-vehicle list.

As for fighting mech IG, it seems like Trueborn can load up on the AT weapons, they're pretty expensive but maybe running them behind a big unit of foot warriors can do the trick. Running two big units of anything on foot w/ 2-3 haemoncs in it would provide two big targets for the IG player, which would work to your advantage. Seems like your best bet is just to have as much infantry on the board as you can to take all the damage if he gets first turn.

If your army has a hard counter, then you're likely to lose, and that's the price you pay for fielding a list that can't take all comers. The easiest way around it is to make a more competitive list. Given that you can't do that in the middle of a game or event, though, your best bet is to use unconventional techniques to try and catch the opponent off guard, as confronting the enemy directly will almost certainly lead to defeat.

I know the Talos and Cronos would be the among first things I thow battlecannon at. The damn things are way too tough to ignore and can eat up all kinds of ridiculous shooting after a pain token. Plus the Cronos gives out pain tokens like candy. Both would be very useful against IG.

When the Voidraven comes out next year (maybe with the suppossed flyers expansion that might come out in June), I would imagine that there will be a lot of DE players with it.

Lorek wrote:What I've been doing with my Tau (which, honestly, are rather vulnerable to more than one army) is play more.

I've found this approach to be very effective. It's also great practice!

Dashofpepper wrote:rjderouin: I play quite a bit. More than most people I'd wager. I'm pretty confident that I can table pretty much anyone out there except for Mech IG. And have proven so repeatedly at tournaments and grand tournaments around the country all year long. "Playing more" isn't the solution to my issue.

Lorek, he just owned you.

I'm of the mind that a hard counter for your army is the inevitable result of you selecting said army.

Now keep in mind, you have options. Every list has more than one option for a FOC slot and every general has tactical decisions to make within the scopre of their game. You could tweak your list to minimize the damage an army that can beat you badly does, but what does it cost to do that? Does it narrow your ability to compete against other armies? Does the strategy it employ become unfamiliar with what you normally play.

I'd have to take my lumps if I have to face an army that mine cannot beat just by list and tactical decisions against a good opponent with a good list.

Stormrider wrote:I know the Talos and Cronos would be the among first things I thow battlecannon at. The damn things are way too tough to ignore and can eat up all kinds of ridiculous shooting after a pain token. Plus the Cronos gives out pain tokens like candy. Both would be very useful against IG.

When the Voidraven comes out next year (maybe with the suppossed flyers expansion that might come out in June), I would imagine that there will be a lot of DE players with it.

Vendettas & guardsmen under the bring it down order would be far better to throw at a Talos or Cronos, against those MC a battlecannon hit is no better than a single krak/hunter killer missile.

The problem DE are having is how to deal with a large volume of Chimera and the vulnerability of open topped skimmers to heavy weapon shots.


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Monster Rain wrote:I don't follow you. The IG parking lot gives a lot of armies trouble.

How is it unique to DE? The old codex doesn't matter anymore.

BA are ideal for fighting an IG parking lot. FNP bubbles+power armor keeps the multilaser/autocannon/heavy bolter/heavy flamer insanity in check. Lots of melta to deal with vehicles, every marine has a krak grenade to use against rear AV10, and 3 Str5 hits from FC is even better than a krak grenade against rear AV10. Once BA get the chance to charge multiple vehicles at the same time they can shred a parking lot.

If a parking lot can be boxed in and charged then multi charging chimeras is the way to handle a parking lot.

Alright, now that I'm fat-fingering my Droid and don't have to avoid abbreviated responses (first time home in 4 days)...


@Stormrider: My DE use three ravagers with three dark lances each. While the Void Raven looks pretty on paper, comparing it to the Ravager in terms of utility against their similar roles in an army makes the Ravager shine head and shoulders about the Void Raven. While the void raven *looks* nice, and has an OMGSTR9LANCE, when you get down to dice rolling, point costs, and utlity, it gets dismissed for being too expensive. If it was meant to be a flyer....it would be more likely considered. But it isn't. In regard to the Talos/Cronos - they are both relatively short range fighters - and their biggest and most profound drawback is that they compete for heavy support slots with....a ravager. The cronos needs to be killing things to be effective, which it can't do until it is in close range, and the Talos suffers from the same issue. My personal issue with Dark Eldar isn't something that two short range monstrosities can kill, but rather something that requires either more anti-tank (which I haven't figured out a way to get), or something unorthodox (which is what this thread is for, in the hopes that someone has thought of something I haven't.)

@Fetterykey: While it is easy to dispense advice like, "Make a more competitive list" - that kind of advice is a bit wasted on me. When I go to a tournament, I bring what I consider to be the most face-beating list possible in the codex I have. The same holds true for my current iteration of Dark Eldar. I have as competitive of a list as I can think of. With both old and new Dark Eldar, I rarely win by accomplishing mission objectives. In fact, if I had a personal motto it would be, "Screw Objectives, everyone dies!" Almost all of my tournament games end with my opponent tabled, or conceding to save a bit of time while I finish tabling them. Prior to the new DE codex, the two big non-included forces to that standard were Mech IG and triple longfang / Runepriest / Razorback spam Spacewolves. My army was built with those two opponents in mind. Actually, it was built with Mech IG in mind - it was the most likely combination of things that I felt could stand against Mech IG, and I made it work against everyone else. The NEW DE codex has volumes and volumes of splinter fire; not least of all from Venoms - meaning that whether the Dark Eldar go first with an alpha strike or reserves...they are *still* going to get to deliver the first blow. I'm not much of a mathhammer kinda guy, but I just did the math, and it says that in my first turn of firing, two full units of longfangs are dead from statistically failed saves alone. With horrendously heavy anti-troop fire available to tackle longfangs and a few lances and more blasters able to clean out razorbacks - Space Wolves simply aren't much of a threat anymore. The problem here is that the codex doesn't have any ready answers for Mech IG. The list I'm using *is* built as good as it can be to take down Mech IG - I can't think of any more effective build - and it still isn't good enough.


@MikeMcSomething: I'm currently running three units of Trueborn, all with blasters, loaded up in Venoms. If they run on foot, they can be targeted, and a 4+ save isn't going to get 3-4 models very far, not to mention that they'll be out of range of anything with their blasters (unless they're static with lances, which is more expensive, and less anti-tank. The best I can hope for at the moment is going first, not getting seized on, moving their transports up 12", dumping out (hopefully into cover) and opening up with blasters trying to take down vehicles. In fact, my entire army is themed around this motto. If I *don't* go first, I have to either weather the turkey-shoot, or reserve everything - either way I'm not getting into blaster range on turn one. Where my problem is my inability to address a heavily mechanized army (all that stupid AV12 so cheap), I'm not sure that footing my entire army is going to fix my inability to take down a heavily mechanized army.

@TheRedArmy: I agree with you...agreeing with me? I will note that while IG brought dramatic change to competitive gaming, Space Wolves brought an even more dramatic change - as evidenced by tournament performances around the country.

@Polonius: Agreed. The new book didn't fix it. Rather than having tons of cheap lances, we now have tons of cheap poisoned STRX weapons. Tyranids everywhere beware! Also units on foot. Especially longfangs. And I don't care if something is T3, T6, or T10 - I'm still wounding it on a 4+ with an entirely obscene amount of shots.

@DarknessEternal: As addressed in my post above.....my list *is* built to fight against Mech IG; as was my old Dark Eldar. The configuration / list was also competent against other armies, which is why I did so well with them. The tools that *let* me fight against Mech IG (albeit with luck, and still in an uphill battle) are now gone. No more multi-blaster toting wyches, no more 12" assault with haywire grenades, etc. Still - building a list to specifically fight Mech IG is not enough. It isn't working. Maybe someone (you perhaps?) has thought of something I haven't, which is why I'm trawling through Dakka here - looking for wisdom.

@Therion: Earlier in the year, when motivation was higher, I wrote a lot of battle reports. Each link in my signature isn't to a single batrep, but to an entire tourney/GT/etc - with links in each post linking to each batrep to the other games in the event. Feel free to read through some of them to see how my DE have performed. I'm not going to make any grandiose statements about who I'm better than or anything - I *do* think a lot of my abilities, and am not as modest in demonstrating them as some would wish me to be. My entire purpose for attending events is to solicit a humbling. For me to take something that I think is an excellent army (traditionally my orks), combine it with my generalship, and see if anyone out there is capable of besting me. I took a beating at my last tournament against Mech IG - but I'm not humbled by it; it wasn't generalship that won the day, it was having the initiative seized against me by an army I can't come up with a ready answer to. Even going first against Mech IG is an uphill battle.

In terms of your second point...about my outrageous claims about what is a hard counter to what - it isn't my job, nor the purpose of this thread to personally educate you about 40k, prevailing trends, competitiveness of various armies, commonalities in the GT circuit, or anything else. So yes - your question is background noise, when the answers you want from me are so readily available everywhere across the internet, especially here on Dakka. Make a thread titled, "Why are Spacewolves a good counter to Mech IG?" and see all the answers that show up.

@Monster Rain: Your post is untopical, and I don't know how to answer it. The point of this thread is to solicit advice on whether I should abandon my DE efforts to return to my Orks, and to see how people feel about playing an army that has a hard counter to it. To a lesser extent, it is also to see if anyone has any thoughts on why IG might *not* be a hard counter to DE, or to see if any wild ideas pop up on what might be a unique approach on how to effectively take down Mech IG with DE. My premise is that I'm playing an army for which a hard counter exists. You're free to disagree with my premise, but justify your opinion with something useful - an argument, logic, points, anything at all. You're not going to tell me that the conclusions drawn from my experiences are wrong and do anything more than be an annoyance unless you back up your statements.

@EmilCrane: Reaver Jetbikes. They got more expensive and less effective against vehicles in the new codex, and shouldn't scare you at all. If someone is willing to dump the points into them (lets say three units of six to get two heatlances each), there's going to be three incredibly expensive units turboing across the field at you. With 3+ saves for a turn. And if they end up within 24" of you on the first turn, even your lasguns are going to be able to range them. And they only have a single wound protected by a 3+ cover save. Hydras can ignore it, flamers can ignore it....not to mention that volume of fire will do its trick. And even if those heat lances survive to deliver their payload on turn two, its a one trick pony. Best case scenario is that all three units survived to deliver two heat lances each, which can only affect a total of three vehicles - and being STR6 melta against AV12 isn't reassurance - not to mention that after delivery of those weapons, those bikes now have a 5+ armour save instead of a 3+ turbo-boosting save. As an IG player, I'd HOPE to see people dropping a lot of points into those bikes. And laugh all the way to your massacre.

Davicus wrote:

Lorek wrote:What I've been doing with my Tau (which, honestly, are rather vulnerable to more than one army) is play more.

I've found this approach to be very effective. It's also great practice!

Dashofpepper wrote:rjderouin: I play quite a bit. More than most people I'd wager. I'm pretty confident that I can table pretty much anyone out there except for Mech IG. And have proven so repeatedly at tournaments and grand tournaments around the country all year long. "Playing more" isn't the solution to my issue.

Lorek, he just owned you.

Not only was it pointless spam, it didn't reference the correct poster.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On Topic:

I think that Lorek is essentially correct. The Codex hasn't really been out for very long, and there's always a learning curve when playing what is essentially a different army.


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Dashofpepper wrote:@Monster Rain: Your post is untopical, and I don't know how to answer it. The point of this thread is to solicit advice on whether I should abandon my DE efforts to return to my Orks, and to see how people feel about playing an army that has a hard counter to it. To a lesser extent, it is also to see if anyone has any thoughts on why IG might *not* be a hard counter to DE, or to see if any wild ideas pop up on what might be a unique approach on how to effectively take down Mech IG with DE. My premise is that I'm playing an army for which a hard counter exists. You're free to disagree with my premise, but justify your opinion with something useful - an argument, logic, points, anything at all. You're not going to tell me that the conclusions drawn from my experiences are wrong and do anything more than be an annoyance unless you back up your statements.

You mad?

Monster Rain wrote:IG isn't a hard counter to DE. Having trouble with Chimera spam isn't unique to this codex.

Monster Rain wrote:I don't follow you. The IG parking lot gives a lot of armies trouble.

How is it unique to DE? The old codex doesn't matter anymore.

Seems pretty well supported to me, at least as far as trying to understand what you're talking about. You had trouble with Mech IG in a tournament. Welcome to the club?

Do you really need me to explain why mech IG is a hard army? They have lots of big guns that can be made more accurate with orders, wrapped in AV12 cases. And tanks. Your list sounds rather vehicle heavy, IG are arguably the best army for destroying vehicles.

Well, Dash.

If you meet a hard counter, you just have to play even more carefully and just...different.

Its just logical, that you have to change your strategy if you meet the counter-strategy that kills your strategy.
This does not mean, that you have to change your list.

What Mech IG does not like is basically:

opponents that just dont die and continue to do their work for a long time.

because Mech IG lacks pushing power, they have to shoot their way through the enemy.
They dont like taking the enemy in a frontal assault.

So you have to provoke it.

I would think of 2 ways.

1st way:

baiting. Have about half of your army rushed to midfield and dismount there. IG has anti tank power, so serve your infantry to him.
if he dismounts to meet you, then you can swarm in with the rest and overrun the infantry. If he does not, then he will have to deal with the infantry force there, and ignore the second wave.

2nd way:

full out aggression. Boost in everything you have and make his weapons overheat. You will lose maybe 1/3 of your vehicles in his shooting phase, but 2/3 maybe will be enough to win the infight. And you can pin him down in his deployment zone, so he will not reach your back field.


Of course, Mech IG is a pain in the ass, but flicker fields are very valuable in order to stay alive in an open firefight.
all out infantry shouldnt be the way to go, because the IG will tank shock you just off the table and the regular DE is just not hard enough to withstand focused fire.

I think the second way is your primary play style isnt it?
so how about the first?

I know you play a lot, but maybe you can accept an advice from the IG perspective.

@concerning counters to IG:

lets see...

DA Biker lists
150+ boyz
long fangs
9 killa kanz+9 buggies+mek
Tau is about 50/50 and depends on the IG having battle psykers or not
tyranids
daemons
BA Jump lists
BA tank lists

all of them have at least a good chance to kill IG. They arent soo hard...

real counters can be reduced to long fangs/wolf scouts, 150+ boyz, daemons, DA bikers, BA jumpers and tyranids.

WarOne wrote:I'm of the mind that a hard counter for your army is the inevitable result of you selecting said army.

Now keep in mind, you have options. Every list has more than one option for a FOC slot and every general has tactical decisions to make within the scopre of their game. You could tweak your list to minimize the damage an army that can beat you badly does, but what does it cost to do that? Does it narrow your ability to compete against other armies? Does the strategy it employ become unfamiliar with what you normally play.

I'd have to take my lumps if I have to face an army that mine cannot beat just by list and tactical decisions against a good opponent with a good list.

Again - generalized advice that I'm not really sure applies. I *have* carefully considered every option available to me, I *have* carefully built a list that I think has the best potential to deal with the issue, I *have* extensively playtested it, I *have* taken it to multiple tournaments, I *have* beaten in everyone's face with it - except for Mech IG, which is the army it fears the most anyway.

As a result, I have decided that Mech IG is an absolute hard counter to DE. So what I'm after is this:

1. If your army has an absolute counter to it, do you continue playing your army and hope to not run into your counter, or start playing another army?

2. To other DE players or codex readers out there....in case I've missed something, how would you build a DE list to take down Mech IG?


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Monster Rain wrote:IG isn't a hard counter to DE. Having trouble with Chimera spam isn't unique to this codex.

I would run the trueborn units 10 strong each with FNP to try to do as much as possible but it's still stretching. If the alpha strike is that huge have you considered using Vect? At 240 he's not cheap but you're at least guaranteeing you go first more often than your opponent, and can make weapon choices based on that information.