And we all shal feel no pain

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**DarkHound**

Except that most smalls arms are AP5, which'll punch right through his flak armor.

**Fury_00011**

Ya i agree now I'm not sure on this but do the thousand sons rubric marines have feel no pain? They are described as basically walking armored shells right?

**Vaktathi**

DarkHound wrote:Except that most smalls arms are AP5, which'll punch right through his flak armor.

Against shooting yes, but the scenario being discussed was CC oriented given that it was discussing charges.

Ya i agree now I'm not sure on this but do the thousand sons rubric marines have feel no pain? They are described as basically walking armored shells right?

No. Currently they simply have a 4+ invul save on top of their 3+ armor. Previously they had no special save but had 2 wounds. Before that (CSM 3.0) they had 2 wounds and could only be hurt by S5 and higher weapons.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Thousand sons should really have 2+ armor saves instead of a 4+ invul. It makes more sense for them since they're basically sealed suits of armor. The 2 wounds thing didnt make much sense to me, since the fluff stated that if their armor was broken, then the soul would be released and escapes. So how does it take what amounts to a crippling/fatal injury to a normal marine and still keeps walking? The lack of flesh and sealed armor should indicate, if anything, it's harder now to actually land a fatal wound, rather than have it take extra wounds or be invulnerable.

**svendrex**

In 5th edition, Tanks (specifically transports) were buffed a lot.

In order for people to consider NOT being in a transport, they started to hand out the FNP to boost infantry survivability on the second half of the 5th edition releases.

Since BA rely on Jump infantry out of tanks, if there was no FNP for them, they would simply be too fragile to be worth it. EVEN with FNP boosting their infantry, you still see tank spam armies.

what can be said for BA can be said doubly for Nids, no transports means you infantry needs to be numerous and survivable, thus the FNP spell.

Same for the DE, you get out of your transport and kill something, gain FNP and then have a chance of not being wiped off the board.

Without the amount of FNP we are seeing now, you would see people getting out of their transports even less in competitive play.

**Kilkrazy**

It would be more easily solved by not letting Troops control objectives unless they got out of their vehicle.

The thing is that GW like giving special rules to armies because that is what players like. Every new codex has to have its allocation of special rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It gets a bit stupid sometimes.

If you look at the fairly common Tyranid combo of Tervigon and Termagant, there are about 10 different special rules in use, just for two units.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Captain Jack wrote:At least there isn't the potential of having 3 saves like there used to be in Warhammer.

Armour Save + FNP + Bionics. Do I get a cookie?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Oh geez. That is one pill I do not like swallowing.

**Footsloggin**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Captain Jack wrote:At least there isn't the potential of having 3 saves like there used to be in Warhammer.

Armour Save + FNP + Bionics. Do I get a cookie?

This good enough? (.::.)

But I feel FnP is to compensate for people who want to run infantry heavy armies, without the use of mech, to increase survivability.

**Samus_aran115**

DE have it too, but it makes complete sense, IMO. You have to kill a unit to get it (or spend 60 points on a hammy, who is a complete master of pain and suffering).

FNP doesn't make a unit invincible though. Anything that's S8 makes it useless (I'm looking at you dark lances), as long as it doesn't have an invul.

Don't be surprised when chaos gets plague terminators

**MechaEmperor7000**

Personally only a cheese issue when regarding BA, since it's a pretty far-fetched way of how they get it. I can understand an Apothecary handing out stim packs to his fellow brethren or shooting them full of drugs that would drop a lesser human, but a freaking cup filled with blood? And it's an Aura style effect? What are they doing, playing drinking games in the middle of a battle with vodka? GK did it a little bit better with squad-based Apothecaries.

Given that they just wanted more survivability on their units, it wouldn't have been that hard to give the units in question a 2+ armor save. Statistically it's identical to an FnP save + Power armor, and both are ignored by the same things (in fact, a 2+ save is superior because you can still use it with a S8+ weapon that doesnt have AP2). Giving it as a cheaper upgrade to all those squads or, surprise surprise, just use Sanguinary guard would have been a much more balanced and less cheese way to do it imo, not to mention it actually makes a bit of sense.

Then again, I am talking about a Matt Ward book.

/nerdrage