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Man, I can't wait for necrons to be released, I can see it now. Stop (insert author here) petition!

Ward is the main architect behind Fantasy 8th. He wrote the flagship book for 40K at the moment and is writing a whole lot more.
They're not going to can him because some demonstrably over sensitive internet people signed a petition.
We can all say "vote with your wallet" til the cows come home but in the end we know it's going to make little difference. 40K is being marketed to teenage boys, same as ever. The difference seems to be that now a patronizing approach to what teenage boys will consider cool is being taken. This has been going on for a few years. And I don't think they are really wrong in their assessment, sadly.

The Night Stalker wrote:Man, I can't wait for necrons to be released, I can see it now. Stop (insert author here) petition!

QFT

Is this an April Fool's joke?

Fetterkey wrote:Is this an April Fool's joke?

Sadly no.

Maxstreel wrote:Online petition, yeah... that'll work.

Want to make GW listen, hit them in the wallet! Don't buy their stuff!

I love 40k. Hate the new GK fluff. Guess what? I'm not buying the book or the GK models. As a business, they only thing they listen to is either the ka-ching of the cash register getting that gamer money or the crickets of silence as their product gathers dust. Anything else is just the buzzing of gnats in their corporate ears.

Let your money do the talking instead of the "ooooh new SHINY must buy! Here's my money even though you put Matrix-mechs with babycarriers in the fluff and called them dreadknights!"

Only will sales numbers dictate whether Matt Ward is a viable author. If people buy his stuff and GW makes a profit, he'll stay. If the stuff tanks and gathers dust, believe me, they'll make him leave.

Sales have been in decline for a long time now
They haven't changed policies, they've gotten worse
What makes you think they'll change now?

@Artick
The issue I think isn't with the rules, like you said we don't know a whole lot about them yet
Rather its with the background
It is terrible
Just look up the Blood Tides story, Draigo, Castellan Crowe, the logic behind Purifiers, Titan or anything else in that book
It really is that bad

The policies will never change, its simple marketing practices, GW constantly hypes up new releases using shiny things and rules that appear to be so OTT that it appeals to the younger gamers, every new release also widens the gap between the old and new content.

The Night Stalker wrote:The policies will never change, its simple marketing practices, GW constantly hypes up new releases using shiny things and rules that appear to be so OTT that it appeals to the younger gamers, every new release also widens the gap between the old and new content.

Funny how video gamers say the exact same thing as they mature, eh?

OTOH it is necessary to move foward, I also think that many people are upset about the GK release because they feel like their armies are getting bashed (chaos and demons). but patience is a virtue and just wait until your army gets a makeover, believe me the day they start remaking the chaos codex i'm throwing a friggen parade.

The Night Stalker wrote:OTOH it is necessary to move foward, I also think that many people are upset about the GK release because they feel like their armies are getting bashed (chaos and demons). but patience is a virtue and just wait until your army gets a makeover, believe me the day they start remaking the chaos codex i'm throwing a friggen parade.

No I am Vanillia Marine player, and a Former Grey Knight Player... ITs just the fluff upsets the balance and the fact that Grey Knights Honorable and not slaughterers of innocents who had nothing to do with anything.

I love that people get so riled up over fluff, when half my 40K group have never read anything about the fluff and could care less because it's a GAME.

Platuan4th wrote:I love that people get so riled up over fluff, when half my 40K group have never read anything about the fluff and could care less because it's a GAME.

Ever stop and think that not everybody shares you opinion? Yes it is a game, but it also has a very rich backstory that encompasses tons of novels and expansions, some people love their backstory. I am quite fond of the fluff because it allows for some truly interesting games if you and you mates want to put together an actual campaign, and when a single writer starts screwing with the foundations its bound to get some people upset.

So you can choose to ignore the fluff if you want but others love it.

Asherian Command wrote:

The Night Stalker wrote:OTOH it is necessary to move foward, I also think that many people are upset about the GK release because they feel like their armies are getting bashed (chaos and demons). but patience is a virtue and just wait until your army gets a makeover, believe me the day they start remaking the chaos codex i'm throwing a friggen parade.

No I am Vanillia Marine player, and a Former Grey Knight Player... ITs just the fluff upsets the balance and the fact that Grey Knights Honorable and not slaughterers of innocents who had nothing to do with anything.

Wait a second... Grey Knights absolutely are renowned slaughterers of innocents, if only because the Imperial concept of innocence is negligible. This isn't new.

Neither are Jokaero for that matter. Unrelated to your post, but I'm sick of hearing "What's with the space monkeys? This isn't 40K!" What the hell are kids smoking these days?

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

The Night Stalker wrote:OTOH it is necessary to move foward, I also think that many people are upset about the GK release because they feel like their armies are getting bashed (chaos and demons). but patience is a virtue and just wait until your army gets a makeover, believe me the day they start remaking the chaos codex i'm throwing a friggen parade.

No I am Vanillia Marine player, and a Former Grey Knight Player... ITs just the fluff upsets the balance and the fact that Grey Knights Honorable and not slaughterers of innocents who had nothing to do with anything.

Wait a second... Grey Knights absolutely are renowned slaughterers of innocents, if only because the Imperial concept of innocence is negligible. This isn't new.

Neither are Jokaero for that matter. Unrelated to your post, but I'm sick of hearing "What's with the space monkeys? This isn't 40K!" What the hell are kids smoking these days?

Actually I am fine with the monkey. It looks funny, It gave me a good laugh. But if you read their lore from matt ward it contradicts the current lore. With the Grey Knights. And they don't even mention anything about any of the more famous Grand Masters......
It kind a pissed me off they invented so many new characters that have never been mentioned before. Hell I would of settled with having Justicar Alraic as a Grand Master!
Its just They should of stayed with the current character selection... There are tons of characters in the Grey Knight's Books and from 40k lore that could be perfect Heroes!

Platuan4th wrote:I love that people get so riled up over fluff, when half my 40K group have never read anything about the fluff and could care less because it's a GAME.

I love how people cannot see other peoples' perspectives.
There is nowt wrong with playing without reference to fluff. Some people prefer just to concentrate on rules and strategy. That is perfectly acceptable.
But others enjoy the background narrative and find that it enriches their enjoyment of said GAME.
People invest time, energy, cash and dare I say a little passion into their hobby.

So all things considered it is no surprise that folks sometimes get upset.
In the greater scheme of things it is trivial, but given this is a gaming forum ie a place for openly discussing gaming, it also seems reasonable that people vent their frustrations now and again

Well okay, all the time.
But I would be more concerned if everyone just behaved compliantly than complained.

You know in the end its up to GW corporate to approve or disapprove stuff. Its their IP and they can do with it what they want. Im not sticking up for GW but that is the truth.

But in the same token, you have every right to petition and to let those know. As someone who works in the field of information science, most corporations largely ignore online petitions and mostly look towards normal snail mail and company surveys for feedback. Your cause is best served doing a letter campaign and while a few emails might go into the trash can, 200 or so written letters by people who took their time to voice their complaints about a product will peak someone's attention.

Of course be courteous and voice your reasons for the displeasure of the product.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

Yes, WH40K is just a game, but so is Monopoly, or RISK or Chess.

But what makes WH40K different from those games? What makes you sit up all night choosing which colour to will paint your new SM army? or what evil tokens to place on your new Chaos Champions Banner?....simple answer, the fluff.

The fluff is what makes a table top wargame so much more than Chess, or Monoploy or any other game you simply pick up, play and put back into its box when your done.

So when people try to come across all High and Mighty, and sooo above the "nerd rage", by stating that "it's just a game of toy soldiers" I really have to laugh.....as you're actually belittling the very thing that moves you to play the game in the first place.

I do agree however, that noone holds a gun to your head and forces you to buy into GW products, if you think the product has taken a nose dive, then it's time to find a new hobby home.

It's no secret that GW is a business run by businessmen, and with business targets taking number one slot over customer demand....which is in itself, bad business practice....however, things at GW are what they are.

That Matt Ward seems to be plying his trade with no recourse to "established" 40K history, does indeed say alot about the unity of the GW fluff. The end effect is that, at least in my opinion, theres no reason to take that fluff seriously anymore, what ever is written today may be worthless tomorrow.

In this way, the big issue for me is trusting in the game setting.

For example, I may buy an army like Blood Angels, because I like the whole Vampire hints, etc etc....now, I spend a lot of money on my army, and follow the fluff that is generated for it in the Black Library....up to now all is good then our friend Matt comes along, and suddenly, Blood Angels arn't vampires anymore....they're something completely different, and all the fluff I previously read is invalid?!?! Suddenly all that money I spent feels meaningless and the very reason I started that army has been removed! Imagine Space Wolves no longer have the taint of the lycan, instead they change into fluffy bunnies....the list could go on, unless you play your games in a vacuum, this isn't something you can just ignore....is this fun? is this how the hobby is mean't to be?

I think there should be a commitee actually. The setting no longer belongs to GW alone.....it belongs to every gamer who has, and ever will, invest money into it. I think people sometimes forget, the game is nothing without the gamers....ask companies like MERCS or Infinity, new companies starting up....ask them if they feel the gamer is irrelevant!

Sure, GW owns the rights, and can do what they want....will it win repeat custom? well, the people wanting to petition must make that choice for themselves.

I urge you to spend your money on companies that care about you, the customer.....stop feeding the dark side, cut the cord and show GW that you are important.

We should get a crucify Andy Hoare and Phill Kelly petition too for what they did to my grey knights.

Karon wrote:We should get a crucify Andy Hoare and Phill Kelly petition too for what they did to my grey knights.

Phill Kelly didn't do anything O.o. And Andy Hoare was the editor, like most editors he probably just skimmed it.

Redemption wrote:I have never in my entire life see an internet petition amount to anything. But yes, it's not like Mat is solely responsible for the fluff in his books, I'm sure the codex writers don't work in total isolatement of each other.

Thats odd, I started the deff rolla petition sometime back, and after a few of us on DAKKA spammed GWs emails for a month, they suddenly FAQd the deff rolla rules. Weird................................




OP All I can say is, you have to really push if you honestly want them to even take notice of your intentions. I created accounts on MANY different 40k forums, and every day had to keep people informed and keep the petition up and running. Even after it was done, again a few of us on DAKKA spammed the hell out of their emails for a month. So good luck, Ill sign it just to help you out

JHall wrote:

taylor048 wrote:

We are moaning because it is a good game ruined by people like matt making rediculous armies and destroying 40k fluff because they are incompitent! we still buy from gw because it is a great game and therefore should get an opinion when someone it up.

Really? Really? You are really making a fuss about someone being RIDICULOUS and INCOMPETENT while misspelling these words and not using punctuation? Gamers amaze me...

nice one, I noticed it too...
+1 for you!

Wolfun wrote:Online petitions do eff-all. Best bet? Go to Games Day and tell it to his face.

This

Cue up, meet him, ask him he why he ruined your codex, call him a dick, spit in his face and move on. Get the largest group of people you can to do it one after another then he/they may take notice.

Personal I don't care. The fine details of GW fluff are always changing and probably always will. I assume GK are still super super soldiers with a fetish for daemon ass, the rest I can just make up myself. Who done what, when and to whos mother makes no difference.

Bangbangboom wrote:

Wolfun wrote:Online petitions do eff-all. Best bet? Go to Games Day and tell it to his face.

This

Cue up, meet him, ask him he why he ruined your codex, call him a dick, spit in his face and move on. Get the largest group of people you can to do it one after another then he/they may take notice.

Personal I don't care. The fine details of GW fluff are always changing and probably always will. I assume GK are still super super soldiers with a fetish for daemon ass, the rest I can just make up myself. Who done what, when and to whos mother makes no difference.

Now there's an inspired piece of sage advice

Hey people are crying on the Internet because someone expanded on a piece of constantly evolving fiction in a way they didn't like.

If you want sage advice "get over it". But I 100% guarantee calling someone a dick and spitting in their face makes them question what they done to deserve it.

Bangbangboom wrote:Hey people are crying on the Internet because someone expanded on a piece of constantly evolving fiction in a way they didn't like.

If you want sage advice "get over it". But I 100% guarantee calling someone a dick and spitting in their face makes them question what they done to deserve it.

either that or you get brought up on charges for a hate crime.

Wow it's pretty sad that you would get up in arms about something so simple, Matt ward is a games developer, he is credited and knows what he is doing, no petition or whinging about how you dont like what hes done will change it, what do you expect to happen..

Form GW ' oh were so sorry about this, lets take grey knights off the shelves and not let Mr. Ward write any more books as he is insane'

Not likely, best option= just deal with it, if you hate it that much quit the hobby.

tenclaw wrote:Wow it's pretty sad that you would get up in arms about something so simple, Matt ward is a games developer, he is credited and knows what he is doing, no petition or whinging about how you dont like what hes done will change it, what do you expect to happen..

Form GW ' oh were so sorry about this, lets take grey knights off the shelves and not let Mr. Ward write any more books as he is insane'

Not likely, best option= just deal with it, if you hate it that much quit the hobby.

Hmm, They could, we just send them an email asking them to black out that piece of lore.

Redemption wrote:I have never in my entire life see an internet petition amount to anything. But yes, it's not like Mat is solely responsible for the fluff in his books, I'm sure the codex writers don't work in total isolatement of each other.

Then clearly you haven't seen the movie Serenity Yea I gotta agree I doubt he wrote the entire book. It'd take sooooo much longer to write all those books if he was soloing it. And I hate how everyone says the necrons and BA were "having a tea party" clearly no one who says that has tried to field necrons with any other army in Apocalypse. They say it on the damn apoc datasheets for combining armies that you should come up with a reason why two armies with different morals are fighting alongside each other. same place same time being the one that leaps to my mind...

dbsamurai wrote:

Redemption wrote:I have never in my entire life see an internet petition amount to anything. But yes, it's not like Mat is solely responsible for the fluff in his books, I'm sure the codex writers don't work in total isolatement of each other.

Then clearly you haven't seen the movie Serenity Yea I gotta agree I doubt he wrote the entire book. It'd take sooooo much longer to write all those books if he was soloing it. And I hate how everyone says the necrons and BA were "having a tea party" clearly no one who says that has tried to field necrons with any other army in Apocalypse. They say it on the damn apoc datasheets for combining armies that you should come up with a reason why two armies with different morals are fighting alongside each other. same place same time being the one that leaps to my mind...

He was the project leader so if he lead it, its his fault.

Squig_herder wrote:Has anyone ever considered that changes in fluff indicate a grander shift in game as a whole?

This.

What people seem to struggle with is the idea that a new codex for an existing army is not a sequel to what has come before. It's a revision. So it doesn't have top stick within the previously established boundaries... that would more or less defy the point of making the revision in the first place.

The whole point of revising a codex is to change things up a bit. Rules change to reflect the current state of the game and the current direction the design team want to move it in, and fluff changes along with it.

So in this edition, Grey Knights (along with pretty much everyone else) are a little less perfect that they had previously been made out to be. Next edition, who knows how they'll be portrayed... but however it turns out that portrayal will, by being included in the new, revised codex that details that army, be the 'correct' portrayal for that edition of the army.


It's also worth noting that GW don't consider their fluff to be 'hard' canon. Everything in the 40K universe is uncertain, and fluff is generally written from a certain perspective. There was a fantastic summation of this on the Black Library site a few years ago, in answer to the constant questions about whether or not BL books were considered canon and how that worked when there were so many contradictions or things that didn't fit into already established fluff... The answer essentially being that it's all 'canon'... but all being told from the specific point of view, and so any given piece of fluff might be 'true'... or it might be apocryphal, or biased by that point of view.

So yes... in this edition, a squad of Grey Knights once murdered a bunch of Batle Sisters, smeared their blood on their armour, and went on a rampage. Or did they?

Everything you have been told is a lie.