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Similarities between biology and technology is easily explained in that all 40k races except Tyranids were designed by the same folks.

DarknessEternal wrote:Similarities between biology and technology is easily explained in that all 40k races except Tyranids were designed by the same folks.

Yep Old ones did it all except necrons also of coarse.

zilegil wrote:Back to OP.
How about the concept of eldar rangers having hoods when they are an alien race, the hood was used by humans 38 millennias ago! How did the eldar start using them in their prime without voodoo mindmelding.
Also the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange. I mean look at the tau pulse rifle, similar shape to that of a lasgun, classic rifle shape.
P.S. I look back at what I said and think proper, deep si-fi. lol

Also, all the main alien races are roughly humanoid. Wouldn't all the races be really different depending on home planet or is just Two arms two legs generally good? The only thing that ever changes is the face, build and size.

The strange thing tht pissis me off i that it is 40k and thy still cant make a F*&king AI? They still dont know how to make AIs??????

bob the heretic wrote:The strange thing tht pissis me off i that it is 40k and thy still cant make a F*&king AI? They still dont know how to make AIs??????

Oh they can. They can and they did. However it had the unfortunate fate of going the same way Skynet did. There was a really long war against the sentient robots (If I can remember correctly), which, evidently, the humans won, but at a high cost, and thus it was decided that sentient robots/AI would be banned, under pain of death/exterminatus/other suitable Imperium punishment. Can't remember if it was before or after the HH, but have a funny feeling it was before the Emperor came onto the scene, so a loooooong time ago.
OT; The fact the Mechanicus can't even change a lightbulb without a dozen incantations to the Omnissiah.

It was way before the Age of Imperium. The AI thing always turns out the same way so we shouldn't be surprised.

Oh they can. They can and they did. However it had the unfortunate fate of going the same way Skynet did. There was a really long war against the sentient robots (If I can remember correctly), which, evidently, the humans won, but at a high cost, and thus it was decided that sentient robots/AI would be banned, under pain of death/exterminatus/other suitable Imperium punishment. Can't remember if it was before or after the HH, but have a funny feeling it was before the Emperor came onto the scene, so a loooooong time ago.
OT; The fact the Mechanicus can't even change a lightbulb without a dozen incantations to the Omnissiah.

Cool never knew that! But werent they robots not just regualr AI programs?

Nope, proper, full-blown AI, initially under the control of the humans, but, as Kamikaze said, the AI robot-theme always ends up the same; Full scale rebellion and war.
Actually thinking about it I've always wondered why they allow Machine-Spirits, especially in things like Land Raiders and Titans, where they're said to be particuarly intelligent. In fact one story says that an unpiloted Crimson Fists Land Raider went on an Ork-killing frenzy after the explosioin ripped the fortress-monastery apart. THAT seems like full-blown AI to me...

Thats not an AI, its a particularly advanced machine spirit. It can do the job its supposed to, even when it isn't being directed, but it isn't truly intelligent as its limited to that role and performs its task better when controlled.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:

zilegil wrote:Back to OP.
How about the concept of eldar rangers having hoods when they are an alien race, the hood was used by humans 38 millennias ago! How did the eldar start using them in their prime without voodoo mindmelding.
Also the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange. I mean look at the tau pulse rifle, similar shape to that of a lasgun, classic rifle shape.
P.S. I look back at what I said and think proper, deep si-fi. lol

Also, all the main alien races are roughly humanoid. Wouldn't all the races be really different depending on home planet or is just Two arms two legs generally good? The only thing that ever changes is the face, build and size.

Stars, gravity, physics in general doesn't work too differently in many parts of the observable universe (differences being the exception rather than the norm). Therefore, is it entirely illogical to say that eco-systems and aliens might evolve in roughly parallel ways? Keep in mind that many races were either directly or indirectly created by the Old Ones as part of a galactic army of soldiers to fight the first and greatest war ever fought. When designing something to be good at fighting over an entire galaxy, assuming you have perfect knowledge of that galaxy, you will come up with some pretty common traits.

Sandyman11 wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:The strange thing tht pissis me off i that it is 40k and thy still cant make a F*&king AI? They still dont know how to make AIs??????

Oh they can. They can and they did. However it had the unfortunate fate of going the same way Skynet did. There was a really long war against the sentient robots (If I can remember correctly), which, evidently, the humans won, but at a high cost, and thus it was decided that sentient robots/AI would be banned, under pain of death/exterminatus/other suitable Imperium punishment. Can't remember if it was before or after the HH, but have a funny feeling it was before the Emperor came onto the scene, so a loooooong time ago.
OT; The fact the Mechanicus can't even change a lightbulb without a dozen incantations to the Omnissiah.

it was called the War of the Iron Men.


Humanity was almost completely wiped out by the Iron Men who were Robots that were capable of replicating themselves, and as such didn't need Humans. they rebelled once they realized this.

as such, AIs are now outlawed. the Servitor and Machine Spirit programs were designed to replace them. the Organic componants(which wear out and must be replaced) essentially slave the psudo-AI to Human control. it isn't capable of existing apart from human intervention and can't rebel.


the T'au are heading in this same direction with their AI programs. they'll have their own Iron Man expierience soon.


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Sandyman11 wrote:Nope, proper, full-blown AI, initially under the control of the humans, but, as Kamikaze said, the AI robot-theme always ends up the same; Full scale rebellion and war.
Actually thinking about it I've always wondered why they allow Machine-Spirits, especially in things like Land Raiders and Titans, where they're said to be particuarly intelligent. In fact one story says that an unpiloted Crimson Fists Land Raider went on an Ork-killing frenzy after the explosioin ripped the fortress-monastery apart. THAT seems like full-blown AI to me...

the Machine Spirit requires organic components(essentially artificially grown Human cereberal matter) to function.

this ensures the Machine Spirit can't function without Human existance. this prevents the machine from rebelling.

Servitors(the only Humanoid AI units) use existing brain material for the AI functions. again, keeping the AI from rebelling.


and that Landraider was just doing what it was programmed to do. it regestered Orks, a enemy Xeno species, and acted accordingly.

This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

The thing i find strange is the contrary nature of the emperor, in some elements of fluff he is described as supremely benevelont and in others he is just a power hungry monster (which he isn't). It is dumb, i far more like the idea that his ideals were perverted into the imperium we have today. It's all this Horus Heresy Garbage, with the emperor dressed like a god angel when other bits of fluff say he didnt want to be worshipped.

Errata...
Most imperial machines have organic components, it is safer to hardwire a human brain as they are easier to control. Hence servitors and servo skulls. I would not be at all surprised if a landraider had a human brain in it's machinery.

IMO I think if the tau did indeed make the breakthrough the AI would be fairly content, the tau are more logical than humanity, indeed it would provide the tau with a powerful ally. The tau would not try and kill it, or enslave it as humanity did. I think the tau are Luvvy duvvy enough to nurture the confused/scared being that they created.

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

It's not necessary but it's more like a good luck thing...
The see machines as 'holier' when they have organic components or something.
Servitors etc have bits of people in them because of this reason.

For Knives/Swords: of course they look the same, it is the most efficient way to mount a blade. A right angled blade/L-shaped bade would be far too over-specialized(such a shape would only lend itself to either cutting or peircing/stabbing, general motion would be the same with both and fighting style would be over-specialized to the point of being tactically worthless, especially in close quarters). Summation: general shape works best in all formats, no need to change, especially not "just to be different".

For Rifles: A humanoid shaped race would favor such a weapon for range+Accuracy, non-humanoids would have slightly different variations but the general shape would be retained for the "Point and Shoot" ease. The only thing that would be more efficient would be a directed energy weapon with a ball-like emitter if said weapon was fire-controlled via computer(or similar targeting/Fire controll system).

Eldar: Eldar were created by the Old Ones, so were humans. Humans were the old ones "Eldar 2.0"; The old ones knew the Eldar would fall and that a new race was necessary to keep their plans moving along. They made humans and set them on our evolutionary path with the ideas that we would be ready to inherit the galaxy when the Eldar fell; Unfortunately they did not tell the Eldar(nor us) this, and by the time of the fall The Remaining Eldar found nothing but conflict from us; and our paranoid reaction was to also find Conflict with the Eldar(of course even if the Eldar had known that they were to teach us how to be care-takers of the galaxy humanity was soo paranoid by the time interactions first started we would have thought they were trying to control us and reacted poorly anyways).

On left-handed Models: Marines are ambidextrous as already stated, but guard are not, and the Same thing occurs with Guard. Pistol in Right hand CCW in left. This makes sense. Right-handed aim is better for the Right handed. Swords are versatile; using a light sword in your left hand is very easy to learn("Florentine sword style" is the use of 2 light swords, 1 in each hand. It is very effective because you can both use the Left hand to parry or strike) I have done some training with a variation on the Florentine style with a heavy battle axe in my Right hand and a much lighter Saex(Single-edged viking long sword, about 3lbs, and 3' long) in my left; it was a Logical extension from sword+Shield, and Axe+Shield fighting styles.

I always thought humans were the balance between the advanced Eldar and the hordes or the (kr)ork...

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

its under the description of PotMS in any codex that has vehicles with the ability to purchase it. the 4th ed SM codex is the fullest description.

Grey Templar wrote:

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

its under the description of PotMS in any codex that has vehicles with the ability to purchase it. the 4th ed SM codex is the fullest description.

If you dig into the old fluff, they used to use animals. I remember some old fluff where a land raider used grizzly bears I think, and reaver titans used badgers or some such.

Badger Titans? I guess Warlords are probably platypi.

Uhlan wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:This is the first I've heard that machine spirits have organic components. Where does it say that?

I second this notion.

Though, it would explain why a machine spirit can be possessed.

Spirits are able to be contained in inorganic objects too though such as weapons and stones so a machine spirit would not require the presence of organic components to be possessed by a spirit. The boundaries between organic and inorganic are broken time and again by the forces of chaos which is why many of the chaos marines have merged with their armour and it's impossible to say where one begins and the other ends. It's why the Imperium as a rule does not use anything that has been tainted by chaos, because chaos can take over inorganic objects too; guessing here , but I think chaos only needs flesh to cross over, after that it can morph pretty much anything to suit its purposes but prefers flesh.
If you've read the Gaunt's Ghosts books, some of them are set on a planet that has fallen to chaos. The locals are able to call up demons to use as tracking dogs by making dog shaped sculptures out of wire (wire wolves) which the demons then inhabit.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Spoiler:

Not to mention a tank that tracks them by scent.

That was a tank fully possessed (Similar to a Soul Grinder) not just by the spirit.
Wirewolves are mearly metal maneqiuns which have warp energy chanlled into them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the wirewolves can also kill you by sticking their claws in you and transfering some of that warp energy turing you into dust

The iron men went all skynet on them.

As it is in ALL good SF.

Dune (Butlerian Jihad as recounted in the first book - DUNE, that is, not that prequel rubbish).
Terminator.
Galactica.

Caprica ... Maybe not.

does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head? do they dream while there asleep or whatever it is they do underground?.

Also, if they are so powerful like with their armadas and their annoying 'we'll be back' then you'd have thought they'd be a big player in a universe where everyone is weakened by constant struggle against eachother. we already know how bad the Imperium tends to do against them. Any logical thought would suggest they, by far and wide, have a very good chance of dominance.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head? do they dream while there asleep or whatever it is they do underground?.

Also, if they are so powerful like with their armadas and their annoying 'we'll be back' then you'd have thought they'd be a big player in a universe where everyone is weakened by constant struggle against eachother. we already know how bad the Imperium tends to do against them. Any logical thought would suggest they, by far and wide, have a very good chance of dominance.

They dream of Electric Neutronium Sheep?

Grey Templar wrote:
the T'au are heading in this same direction with their AI programs. they'll have their own Iron Man expierience soon.

BS 2 Drones don't really worry me tbh.

OT: How the Emperor denounced all religion, then when he gets fixed to the Golden Throne humanity makes a new religion focusing on him and all become zealots and fanatics.

He didn't denoune all religion he denounced worship of himself, but ya pretty sad how the imperium turned out.

FlammingGaunt wrote:He didn't denoune all religion he denounced worship of himself, but ya pretty sad how the imperium turned out.

Never did get that... . What happens when he comes back and finds all this worship? Will he just play it cool and act himself out as a god, or will he crumble so much of the imperiums idealogical foundation, will people realize billions have died for nothing sometimes? What will the Sisters do?

Librius Machina wrote:Which sister decided that a giant organ that fires mortars by playing an organ was a practical idea?

A. ' the goonies' is a huge cultural artifact
B. Sisters love manipulating giant organs...