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Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Um... Humanity created the other ones. Eldar only created one. Granted, it was a much more catastrophic event, but the dark ages were just that bad.

Also, Eldar have several actual worlds left, and that's not including exodite worlds. Real eldar planets, while rare, do exist. Especially after the creation of the Eldar Path system, humanity really is barbaric compared to the focused mind of just a single eldar. Humans worship a god that doesn't want them to worship him. Good job IoM, way to make a mokery of all that your beloved Emperor loved.

Also, Orks are tough, but they're not that bad. Their biggest problem is their ability to reproduce like mad.

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Broadsides are shas'ui

You have to perform well once then pass a trial by fire to get promoted to Shasiu,
If Kais had done what he did several times over showing all the skills of a soldier, veteran and leader he would be bumped up to Shas'el or shaso'o
As tau are apparently space commies, they believe that everyone is equal so should not get promoted straight to Shas'o from shas'la
that would be like promoting a Private to General because of his combat ability rather than his leadership and strategy.

Sothas wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Um... Humanity created the other ones. Eldar only created one. Granted, it was a much more catastrophic event, but the dark ages were just that bad.

Also, Eldar have several actual worlds left, and that's not including exodite worlds. Real eldar planets, while rare, do exist. Especially after the creation of the Eldar Path system, humanity really is barbaric compared to the focused mind of just a single eldar. Humans worship a god that doesn't want them to worship him. Good job IoM, way to make a mokery of all that your beloved Emperor loved.

Also, Orks are tough, but they're not that bad. Their biggest problem is their ability to reproduce like mad.

Friend, your wrong. Humanity helped the 3 gods of chaos come to real power but humanity didn't form them. They were formed as an after-effect of the Necron-Old one war. As for the Eldar they were the ones who gave the powers of chaos the ability to screw around with the material world seeing as how the veil between the Warp and the Real world was weakened via the forming of the eye of terror.

Second, humanity praying for the GEOM as god may actually be turning him into a god. Plus lets face it the 40k setting makes atheism incorrect and religion right.

Guardsman Nate wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

lol dude read the last chancers orks aint that tuff

At least not when they have a leader...Without the guidance of a Warboss - Orks are nothing more than angry mob...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sothas wrote:
Um... Humanity created the other ones.

Where did you read that?

Guardsman Nate wrote:How often do you see 1 guardsmen?

When all his friends have been killed...

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Broadsides are shas'ui

You have to perform well once then pass a trial by fire to get promoted to Shasiu,
If Kais had done what he did several times over showing all the skills of a soldier, veteran and leader he would be bumped up to Shas'el or shaso'o
As tau are apparently space commies, they believe that everyone is equal so should not get promoted straight to Shas'o from shas'la
that would be like promoting a Private to General because of his combat ability rather than his leadership and strategy.

You must past 2 trials by fire to earn a battlesuit. Kais just pass one and he bacame veteran ( he must wait 4 years to undergo another one ). And O\kais didn't do that again - after event's from the game he was locked down in mental institution. He got a little while fighting Chaos...
And even if he earned a battlesuit. What you must do after all that to earn rank of commander? Kill the Emperor? close the Eye of Terror?

iproxtaco wrote:

The Eldar look down on all races for being inferior while they are superior due to them being oldest and created as perfect by the Old ones- this is what Eldar believe. They say that they should rule the galaxy and its not because of them being better at rulership. They ruled the entire galaxy for millions of years during the eons of the Eldar empire, an empire that fell and other races took its place. The Eldar want the return of the empire so they can be safe and all-powerful again, a cause which craftworld Biel-tan champions. Biel-tan, are among the most overzealous and xenocidal of their kind: their one dream is to rebuild the ancient Eldar empire, using the dead bones of everything that stands in their way as foundation, a lot like the Imperium . Nice fellows indeed[sarcasm!].

You want some a small snippet of what happens to psykers who don't get picked up by the Black Ships -

Enslaver Plagues. Deaathwatch Corel Rulebook pg 316 wrote:
"Call them what you will-Krell, Psyrens or Ensalvers. Just one witch, unsanctioned, caused the destruction of Hive Skorpios when one of those things used her brain as a gateway to this world. Within three days the entire hive's population was reduced to drooling,, mind slaves. Withing three weeks and entire continent was at war. And all because the governor though his family should be exempt from the psyker cull and refused to give his daughter to the Black Ships" - Inquisitor Mallen, Ordo Xenos

Humanity, as a species is evolving into a psyker race. But because they are still evolving the dangers of psykers are more pronounced as human psykers have yet to evolve a defense against the warp. Eldar were created by the Old Ones to be a psyker race so they don't have to go through all the problems humanity does since the needed defenses are built-in.

Its unfair to use Eldar as a measure of how the Imperium should act seeing as the Eldar are older than humanity and are all psychic, yet they still get onto fights with each other, when humanity doesn't have what the Eldar have going for them. And the Eldar don't tolerate xeno species; they either ignore them, use them or wipe them out. The book 'Xenology' has your evidence of so called Eldar benevolence.

I call Interex lovey attitude with aliens to be madness seeing as the CABAL(an organization made up of aliens) were planning on having the entire human race go extinct to destroy chaos so that the galaxy could be saved for the xeno races or so they claim.

Right, so you agree with me? The Eldar see themselves as superior. That doesn't necessarily mean they are, but that's just what the Eldar BELIEVE. You really want me to repeat the point? I know the Eldar would like to rule the galaxy again, I pretty much said that twice. They would happily destroy the Imperium to do so, I SAID THAT.

What's the point in this snippet? To more iterate my point? Good.

What argument are you putting forward with this thing about humans evolving into a race of psykers? I completely understand that this is happening to an extent but I don't see what point you're trying to make.

I'm not using the Eldar as a measure of how the Imperium should act, I'm simply saying the Eldar are more moral than the Imperium, but the Imperium has it's reasons. Well, ignoring a species is tolerating it, Interex are a prime example. They had contact with the Eldar, the Eldar trusted them with knowledge of Chaos. That's tolerating them. That's GOOD RELATIONS. Does the Imperium have good relations with a xenos species? Nope. Not one.

So you're saying alliances between humans and aliens are wrong? Tau? There are quite a lot of humans peacefully serving the Tau. That's not a hostile or bad relationship. Now I'm not saying the Tau are great guys but that's an example of good relations. The Interex are no different. Their Empire was large and prosperous, their way of life was clean and of a high standard and their technology was highly advanced. All this and they never eradicated a xenos species. The Megarachnid just wanted to expand and destroy the Interex, no diplomacy or negotiations, just merciless war, and yet the Interex still had a high sense of morality. They thought they had no right to make a species extinct so quarantined them to live on a planet but lacking the capability to attack the Interex again. One Cabal of aliens is not a generalisation.

Offtopic: I have to say I really love this site when compared to Warseer. People debate with me and challenge me whereas that website tries to ban me.

Back-to-topic: It has been said that very few Eldar admit that they even created Slaanesh. You can't really judge between Imperium and Eldar seeing as Eldar have tech that makes them pretty much self-sustainable. Most Eldar, even the ones that left their craftworlds still have the same culture and loyalty to their race that can't be subverted. Humanity is unfortunately not like that, even during the Dark age of Technology humanity was not united. Humanity has this unfortunate tendency to sell each other out so that they can profit. If the citizens of the Imperium or hell Humanity in general knew about chaos and what it could offer. They would throw their lot in with the Chaos gods seeing as Chaos can give a person practically everything one wants - immortality, power, wealth, women, men, inbetween genders, freedom etc. So the Imperium oppresses them to keep them loyal so as not to fall to chaos, to fuel the war effort which is needed etc.

As for relations between the Imperium and aliens; read either Eisenhorn or the Ravenor books, I'm not sure which one but one of them has the Imperium or at least certain elements of the Imperium talking and having peaceful relations with aliens and not shooting or killing them. They just don't want to be ruled by aliens. Eldar and Imperium have a very strange relationship with each other; they are more often allies then enemies. The thing is that the Imperium don't attack Eldar craftworlds as they see no point in doing so since a] Eldar are somewhat friendly and b] the Eldar are a dying race.

The Interex strike me as being very stupid and not wise. They are said to be devoted to the fight against chaos, if so why the hell do they have a chaos weapon placed in a museum; if I were them I would have destroyed it. When they suspect the Imperiums members for being chaos agents for the stealing of the sword. Do they act rationally? No, cleanse all Imperial negotiators with fire. I never said that all aliens are like the Cabal, I simply said that the Interex thought all aliens can be handled through peace and coexistence which is bull. If you know Orks and Dark Eldar and other assorted nasties.

Plus you can't deny that the Cabal were planning for all humanity to die, even the Interex. I wonder what the Interex would do f they knew about the Cabal?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Sothas wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Um... Humanity created the other ones. Eldar only created one. Granted, it was a much more catastrophic event, but the dark ages were just that bad.

Also, Eldar have several actual worlds left, and that's not including exodite worlds. Real eldar planets, while rare, do exist. Especially after the creation of the Eldar Path system, humanity really is barbaric compared to the focused mind of just a single eldar. Humans worship a god that doesn't want them to worship him. Good job IoM, way to make a mokery of all that your beloved Emperor loved.

Also, Orks are tough, but they're not that bad. Their biggest problem is their ability to reproduce like mad.

Friend, your wrong. Humanity helped the 3 gods of chaos come to real power but humanity didn't form them. They were formed as an after-effect of the Necron-Old one war. As for the Eldar they were the ones who gave the powers of chaos the ability to screw around with the material world seeing as how the veil between the Warp and the Real world was weakened via the forming of the eye of terror.

Second, humanity praying for the GEOM as god may actually be turning him into a god. Plus lets face it the 40k setting makes atheism incorrect and religion right.

Helped create isn't much different than solely creating. Humans still had an impact. I remember reading somewhere that Khorne came about durring the crusades and Nurgle durring the bubonic plague, although now I can't find where I saw that, maybe it's not true. :/

IIRC the star child isn't cannon anymore, either way I do like the fluff on that a lot. Also the Emperor didn't want anyone to worship him and promoted athiesm. So yes, he might be becoming a god, but it's not what he wanted.

where are you getting the idea that the Star-Child isn't canon?

So, he's the God-Emperor of Atheism?

Brother Coa wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:But the most odd thing in 40k to me is Shas'la T'au Kais from Fire Warrior.

The fact that one Fire Warrior alone destroy that much IG, SM, Techpriest, CSM, Obliterators, Daemon Princess, Titan and even Lord of Change....

And after that he was just promoted to Shah'ui? What then you need to do to get Broadside?

Broadsides are shas'ui

You have to perform well once then pass a trial by fire to get promoted to Shasiu,
If Kais had done what he did several times over showing all the skills of a soldier, veteran and leader he would be bumped up to Shas'el or shaso'o
As tau are apparently space commies, they believe that everyone is equal so should not get promoted straight to Shas'o from shas'la
that would be like promoting a Private to General because of his combat ability rather than his leadership and strategy.

You must past 2 trials by fire to earn a battlesuit. Kais just pass one and he bacame veteran ( he must wait 4 years to undergo another one ). And O\kais didn't do that again - after event's from the game he was locked down in mental institution. He got a little while fighting Chaos...
And even if he earned a battlesuit. What you must do after all that to earn rank of commander? Kill the Emperor? close the Eye of Terror?

It's actually based on time served. Every 4 years they get rank till they retire. Killing the emperor dosen't even get you any cookies. Just a thank you card.

Anvildude wrote:So, he's the God-Emperor of Atheism?

He's not really the God of anything, at least as far as abstract concepts are concerned. He's an entity created in a manner not dissimilar to that by which Chaos gods were, or at least how Slaanesh was: the combination of a large numbers of souls within the warp, prior to the reincarnation of those souls.

Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Because players smarter then Abby did just that throughout most of the 13th Black Crusade event and then GW deliberately fudged it because they couldn't have Chaos win both in space AND on the ground. If you look through the list of wins and losses for the BFG campaign you'll see quite a few wins counted twice on different pages.

It's sort of like when Karl Franz was killed during Empire in Flames. Quick, Initiate operation RETCON!

So GW actually used to have play events count for fluff? Pity they didn't stick to their guns, then. If you're going to give an amoral maniac a weapon that can destroy PLANETS, you better be ready to deal with the consequences.

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

I haven't noticed that bother Abby much in the past. And Cadia isn't the only exit, just the most heavily fortified one. Which begs to ask why Abby would try to leave by that door anyway.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Guys, thers a reason this thread is called the ODD things in 40K

theres probably no logical reason as to why they wouldnt do that, or perhaps a fluff oversight by gw

Tyranic Marta wrote:

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

Guys, thers a reason this thread is called the ODD things in 40K

theres probably no logical reason as to why they wouldnt do that, or perhaps a fluff oversight by gw

The Imperium is more or less unaware of what the pylons do, and Inquisitors that have speculated on it seem to come to the conclusion that it's better to deal with the problem they know than mess with something holding the warp in check. Quixos attempted to replicate one, and fuel it with a large number of captive psykers to destroy the Eye of Terror, or perhaps just to see what would happen; he wasn't exactly stable, and his goals weren't really explored in depth before Eisenhorn killed him.

Anvildude wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Shayden wrote:Any reason why didn't Abbadon use the Planet-Killer on Cadia? I mean other than the fact that he can out-stupid your average ork.

Wouldn't destroying Cadia close up the only way out of the Eye of Terror, seeing as how the pylons there are the only reason it's stable enough to travel through?

Wait, if some pylons on Cadia are keeping the eye Open, wouldn't the Imperium want to close the eye, by destroying the pylons?

actually, the Pylons are keeping the Eye from spreading further.


they are a Necron construct intended to keep the Warp Anomoly closed.

I understand that if a Dark Eldar continues to cause suffering, they're practically immortal, meaning they can keep their souls from Slaanesh.

What happens if they're killed in battle? Surely their souls would go to Slaanesh anyway?

correct, unless they have paid a Homuncules to save them from death.


the DE stave off their fate.

Grey Templar wrote:

actually, the Pylons are keeping the Eye from spreading further.


they are a Necron construct intended to keep the Warp Anomoly closed.

How does that work? Since the eye didn't exist until 10k years before present, and the Necrons only 'recently' woke.

Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

That doesn't make any sense either: Basically, there would have been a galaxy wide power vacuum for...however long. In a galaxy filled with violent expansionist powers that have been around almost as long as the Eldar, such as the orks, how the hell does that work?

Or are orks getting retconned into a Dark Age of Technology bioweapon?

And someone might want to let FFG know, since they're still talking about the fall of the eldar being 10k years ago.

Grey Templar wrote:Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

We've been over this: it doesn't.

I've got the reason why Abbadon wants to attack Cadia, it's probably down to some kind of tactical Genius......

Librius Machina wrote:Which sister decided that a giant organ that fires mortars by playing an organ was a practical idea?

Imagine this song playing the whole time and it will get much better.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Plot holes.


the most recent fluff actually puts the Eldar Fall long before mankind took to the stars.

We've been over this: it doesn't.

It sure doesn't
This is from the Current Eldar Codex:
"Ten thousand years before the Fall, the Warp was riven with storm and tempest. This made it almost impossible for Human spacecraft to travel between the stars. With the birth of the Great Enemy the Warp was temporarily calmed, it's rage all but spent. A New Equilibrium was reached as Slaanesh joined the ranks of the Chaos gods. With the warp storms around ancient Terra dispersed, Human worlds throughout the galaxy were brought into contact once more."
-Codex Eldar pg.5

The Fall is what led to the Great Crusade and the creation of the Eye of Terror.