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The thing that is probably the most unusual about the universe is the fact that melee weapons are often more effective than small arms. I know 40K started out as a science fiction version of Warhammer Fantasy, but it just makes me laugh every time somebody brings a knife to a gun fight and wins[i]. Star Wars and Dune were also guilty of this. Then again, 40K wouldn't be as much fun if two sides were just spraying rifle fire at each other from hundreds of meters away and not hitting each other.

bthom37 wrote:B. Sisters love manipulating giant organs...

Your a bad man

bthom37 wrote:
B. Sisters love manipulating giant organs...

Right on top of tanks, for everyone to see too .

I have a feeling it'll be like monty python " only the messiah would deny that he is the messiah"

I own a Roman Gladius G2 Sword (its meant to be used) and i tried to use it left handed while handling a .45 pistol. Not in actual combat of course but to feel out this issue. As I am right handed it was a mess....the control is just not there. For a right handed person to wield a sword (about 3lb) with his left it would take a ton of training and just general strength increase, but by switching the pistol to the left hand and wielding the sword right handed....it felt very natural....

Aiming left handed was easier to learn than swinging a sword with off hand.

That being said i only think the above argument only works for IG, SMs can use a rock to effectively kill everything so i dont think it would matter what hand they hit you with....

As for melee weapons being more effective than ranged weapons.....within a range of 3-4ft a sword/hammer/chainfist/scything claw is just as lethal as a gun....and to quote Max Brooks: Blades do not need reloading.

Dogface 76 wrote:Max Brooks: Blades do not need reloading.

Read the survival guide book 38 times, and counting .

But i never got that though, why does GW not make right handed melee weapons(with the exception of a powerfist) for imperial guard, and vice versa for pistols. I convert left handed pistols for my guardsmen and its a little annoying but looks really nice, especially with a chainsword finger guard.

If the Imperium is predjiduce about mutants then why in the heck do they allow midgets with fury feet and giant oversized retards in their army?

Why are humans still riding horses into battle???

Why are giant oversized bikes being used in the future for warfare?

Why is all the imperiums land based vehicles still on treds?

Why doesn't the Imperium have some kind of kick butt heliocopter?

Who's was high on shroomes when they decided orks came from fungi?

And for emperor sakes why is their swords still being used in future warfare!???

Riddick40k wrote:If the Imperium is predjiduce about mutants then why in the heck do they allow midgets with fury feet and giant oversized retards in their army?

Why are humans still riding horses into battle???

Why are giant oversized bikes being used in the future for warfare?

Why is all the imperiums land based vehicles still on treds?

Why doesn't the Imperium have some kind of kick butt heliocopter?

Who's was high on shroomes when they decided orks came from fungi?

And for emperor sakes why is their swords still being used in future warfare!???

- The imperium will take whatever skilled combatants they can get, with whatever they're skilled with.

- They're not mutants, but abhumans, and evolved naturally, no warp influence from what i know.

- Lots of extra shielding and protection

- They don't have the STC's for hover craft i guess, plus no xeno technology

- Its a Valkyrie!

- They're orks! No reason required!

- Because standing in one place and everyone just shooting is pretty boring.

Odd things in 40K?

Ork ships flying...

Howling Banshees not having sex...

The gratest Human engineers giving praise to the Pentium III...

...and in the same time have one of the most advanced technologies in the galaxy...

Guard charging like in WWI despite having gunships, tanks, ships...

And the greatest warriors in the galaxy using swords and big Hammers to fight tons of ranged infantry...

...and win in the end?

40k is really strange universe, can't wait for 50k...

It is also worth noting that training a soldier to effectively use a sword is much more dificult than training him to effectively use a gun. The imperium clearly trains it's men in close combat to a far greater degree than contemporary forces so it is understandable. Also Humanities primary (afaik) antagonist in it's history has been the ork, a creature who will charge through even the most punishing firing solution to get Krumpin'. Close combat training would be a must.

Perkustin wrote:It is also worth noting that training a soldier to effectively use a sword is much more dificult than training him to effectively use a gun. The imperium clearly trains it's men in close combat to a far greater degree than contemporary forces so it is understandable. Also Humanities primary (afaik) antagonist in it's history has been the ork, a creature who will charge through even the most punishing firing solution to get Krumpin'. Close combat training would be a must.

That is true but who every thought it would be tactically sound to train thousand of raging screaming monkeys to charge out at an enemy fortress where 75. Caliber guns are the least of your worries?

our modern millitary still trains people in the art of hand to hand warfare.

Bayonets are STILL issued, even though Cavelry has, all but, dissappeared(the original purpose of the Bayonet was to turn a rifle into a spear so you could reach a guy on horseback)

if hand to hand fighting was viewed as outdated and laughable, knives wouldn't have any restrictions on carrying them in public or the construction of the knife.


modern warfare seems to be moving to the point of either being miles away from your enemy for shelling him, or meare meters.

Most imperial machines have organic components, it is safer to hardwire a human brain as they are easier to control. Hence servitors and servo skulls. I would not be at all surprised if a landraider had a human brain in it's machinery.

If they can wire a marine into a dreadnought, why don't they wire a marine in a tank?

The point about melee being so prevalent has been made before.

1. Probably a case of gameplay leading fluff. As mentioned, a game with just shooting is not meaty as visceral or fun a the idea of butchering your opponents troops with spiky sharp thins.

2. If armour tech exceeds or matches weapons penetration, then dying to ranged fire is less probable so closing with your enemy is now possible and effective.

3. Melee is scary. It's use as a fear inducing tactic is fundamental to warfare, and the prospect of being hacked to bits is a key factor for influencing your enemy, game or not.


So yeah, "drive me closer so I can kill them with my sword" is effective.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head?

Generally, razor sharp molecular edged shurikens or .75cal exploding rounds (the last thing to go through their heads is often the boots of the marines chasing them down in combat).

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head?

"Wait, Necrodermis does What to your memory?"

It gets funnier the more you think about it...

zilegil wrote: lso the fact that weapons like guns, knives, grenades, etc, look the same as human's is strange.

Maybe you don't understand weapon manufacturing, aerodynamics or erganomics

Knives and swords are far easier to make and more durable as a single straight blade, that is why lots of human cultures, completely seperately, developed this. The are also far easier to use in this fashion, i mean try putting an L shaped blade back in it scabbard.

Firearms are designed as straight 'tubes' because they are used to fire a projectile, so they need the best way to gain momentum. The staight tube with shoulder butt is also one of the most successful designs of firearm as it allows for the combination of effects from both the gun and body giving the best shooting position.

Grenades, explosives held in a case with a firing mechanism, pretty simple, the design comes in many forms but the design elements are the same, just look at the commonalities between a grenade and a moloktiv cocktail.

Races (or for 40K species) of similair body shape will follow the lone of what is easier, that is why they share design features.

Tanks. Y you so rare?

Tanks, Rare?


you haven't faced a Guard player yet have you?



there are battles in the fluff with literally hundreds of Lemun Russ tanks and dozens of titans rushing accross a plain to meet the enemy.

And for the 6th edition Guard codex- Chimera as a troop choice, filling optional

How the progenoid and geneseed really work. Because there are so many conflicting statements it makes the head hurt.

Garviel wrote:does anyone else wonder what goes through a Necrons head? do they dream while there asleep or whatever it is they do underground?.

Also, if they are so powerful like with their armadas and their annoying 'we'll be back' then you'd have thought they'd be a big player in a universe where everyone is weakened by constant struggle against eachother. we already know how bad the Imperium tends to do against them. Any logical thought would suggest they, by far and wide, have a very good chance of dominance.

Read "Fear the Xenos" there is a good short story in there were this rouge trader team with a psyker go into a necron tomb and the psyker can hear all the thoughts of the slumbering necron. Necrons apparently show up in the warp, just very faintly and like ghosts..... O and they dream about hateing everything. lol fitting I thought.

FlammingGaunt wrote:He didn't denoune all religion he denounced worship of himself, but ya pretty sad how the imperium turned out.

Yes he did denounce all religion... including himself. He was trying to forge a secular imperium to stiffle the chaos gods. If He dominated the whole galaxy and held it under one secular truth, the warp would stop roiling with chaos. That was his plan all along.

Brotherjulian wrote: In second edition Orks and Eldar didn't even have their own basic weapons. Orks used bolters and Eldar had lasguns

OMG WTF

A walking city block with what look like temple steps for feet and guns the size of jumbo jets is not a very efficient war machine, no matter how awesome it sounds. One wrong step of those great clunking legs, or ground giving out underneath it, and you have a city block falling, well, the distance of a city block, with the full weight of, um, a city block - smashing into the ground.

Come to think of it, terminator armor, even power armor, doesn't look like it would fall very softly either, and might be a considerable pain to get back on its feet.

How you can immobilise a walker puzzles me, if you immobilise a walker, you destroy one of it's legs, which wouyld destroy it as it would fall over.

it actually represents you severing servos or cutting power cables rather then actually blowing the legs off.

Grey Templar wrote:it actually represents you severing servos or cutting power cables rather then actually blowing the legs off.

Have you *looked* at a sentinel? Even if you did that, it'd still fall over, because the legs work through either hydraulics or pneumatics. Even severing a cable would cause pressure loss, resulting in a tip over.

So maybe it's firing from the floor, or the crew unbolted the gun to swivel it around

Sometimes logic has to go by the wayside, but you do get some fun WTFs

I meant like Tank-y tanks. I recall somewhere about 2,000,000+ Guardsmen with only 700+ Leman Russ'.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:it actually represents you severing servos or cutting power cables rather then actually blowing the legs off.

Have you *looked* at a sentinel? Even if you did that, it'd still fall over, because the legs work through either hydraulics or pneumatics. Even severing a cable would cause pressure loss, resulting in a tip over.

well, if i was designing a walker that could only remain upright via Hydraulic pressure, i would install a failsafe that would lock the legs in position in the event of a power loss.