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So many things I don't understand about 40K.

Why, for instance, on Taros, in two days of urban warfare, with most skirmishes being at very close range, a single hunter cadre was able to kick the ass of a complete SM company supported with scouts and terminators, entrenched in the planetary governor's palace?

Why, after an entire year of scouting and reconnaissance operations on Kastorel Novem, scouts from the Raven Guard were unable to successfully assess the strength of the orks present there (notably completely missing the presence of stompas and giga dreds, dunno how they missed a stompa, they must have been blind), leading their raid into a bloody disaster?

Doesn't hunter cadre = Army?

hunter cadre is a stealth army, and i dunno about the second, who wrote that?

Why Orks in 40k and Orcs in Fantasy?

Because in 40,000 years, the 'c' evolved into a 'k'.

Laodamia wrote:So many things I don't understand about 40K.

Why, for instance, on Taros, in two days of urban warfare, with most skirmishes being at very close range, a single hunter cadre was able to kick the ass of a complete SM company supported with scouts and terminators, entrenched in the planetary governor's palace?

A (Space Marine) company is one hundred troops. A cadre is more on the scale of a regiment, and a hunter cadre would be in stealthsuits, I believe. So several thousand invisible power armored soldiers in heavy cover, against one hundred space marines (each one stated to be the equivalent of twelve unaugmented humans, meaning they'd be outmatched against a single Guard regiment, unless Matt Ward escaped his cage and got into the cocaine stash that day... ).

several companies of stealthsuits supported by kroot auxilliaries and devilfishes

Come to think of it, terminator armor, even power armor, doesn't look like it would fall very softly either, and might be a considerable pain to get back on its feet.

A Christmas Story, anyone?

Perkustin wrote:The thing i find strange is the contrary nature of the emperor, in some elements of fluff he is described as supremely benevelont and in others he is just a power hungry monster (which he isn't). It is dumb, i far more like the idea that his ideals were perverted into the imperium we have today. It's all this Horus Heresy Garbage, with the emperor dressed like a god angel when other bits of fluff say he didnt want to be worshipped.

Errata...
Most imperial machines have organic components, it is safer to hardwire a human brain as they are easier to control. Hence servitors and servo skulls. I would not be at all surprised if a landraider had a human brain in it's machinery.

IMO I think if the tau did indeed make the breakthrough the AI would be fairly content, the tau are more logical than humanity, indeed it would provide the tau with a powerful ally. The tau would not try and kill it, or enslave it as humanity did. I think the tau are Luvvy duvvy enough to nurture the confused/scared being that they created.

Why would the AI be more content with the Tau then they would with any organic? Please go to a thread labeled- "Why do people say Tau are good guys?" and read all post there. You will learn a lot of things about the Tau. Humanity didn't enslave AI, they created machines with a better AI than today's but not sentient. The AI's developed sentience by themselves, didn't like fact that the obeyed organics and decided to destroy their creators. That's all their is to the iron men war.

The Tau are not logical people. In the 40k universe the religious fanatics and paranoid people are logical because they are right. The Tau are the naive and ignorant ones along with arrogance despite being too dumb to live since they believe they killed Slaanesh. TOO DUMB TO LIVE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Laodamia wrote:So many things I don't understand about 40K.

Why, for instance, on Taros, in two days of urban warfare, with most skirmishes being at very close range, a single hunter cadre was able to kick the ass of a complete SM company supported with scouts and terminators, entrenched in the planetary governor's palace?

Why, after an entire year of scouting and reconnaissance operations on Kastorel Novem, scouts from the Raven Guard were unable to successfully assess the strength of the orks present there (notably completely missing the presence of stompas and giga dreds, dunno how they missed a stompa, they must have been blind), leading their raid into a bloody disaster?

Friend, the books you're reading are Imperial Armour books. They never have the Imperium win any battle without first making them look incompetent. Even then the Imperium almost always lose. The Taros campaign is nothing but Tau masturbation at its finest since everything that could possibly go wrong for the Imperium did go wrong with the Tau not suffering any bad luck that seemed to plague the Imperium . As for Kastoreal Novem another fluff disaster, still better than G"masturbating Marines and Tau"W.

Tyranic Marta wrote:cause that would be gay
imagine it now
"hey mate you wanna play a game of 40K?"

"whats that?"

"y'know the game with little models n stuff, y;know warhammer"

"oh you mean 41K"

.... nuff said

fething lol

OP: Why aren't multilasers an option for heavy weapons teams in the IG?

EDIT: actually maybe I'm thinking too much along the lines of the game rules... they probably used them as heavy weapons in fluff right?

would be nice to have em as heavy weapons, like a heavy bolter right?

Tyranic Marta wrote:would be nice to have em as heavy weapons, like a heavy bolter right?

Yeah... you can use multilasers on a bunch of other stuff... why not heavy weapons teams.

sounds like a good idea....

stupid fething gw mutter mutter

idiots, all of them


anyhoo....

No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

BaronIveagh wrote:No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

????? sorry i dont follow

Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And why Emperor didn't tell anyone what his plan for Humanity was? In 41'st millennium every fool with little power has his own "Emperor's plan" for Humanity. Like it was a hard thing to say: "Do this, do that, don't worship me - EVER!!!"

Or making a enemy that is almost indestructible ( Necrons ), that really kills the mood and balance. Speaking of witch, Imperial Guard is the most unbalanced race ( if you have enough of them you win every game ). Why don't they drop new Necron codex and balance them already?

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Brother Coa wrote:Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And why Emperor didn't tell anyone what his plan for Humanity was? In 41'st millennium every fool with little power has his own "Emperor's plan" for Humanity. Like it was a hard thing to say: "Do this, do that, don't worship me - EVER!!!"

Or making a enemy that is almost indestructible ( Necrons ), that really kills the mood and balance. Speaking of witch, Imperial Guard is the most unbalanced race ( if you have enough of them you win every game ). Why don't they drop new Necron codex and balance them already?

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Not every world can give troops for various reasons, location, population, role of world eg. Agri world. Saying that, many of those 70% DO give troops to back up war torn worlds, its just that so many guard die trying to defend them that they need constant reinforcement.

Because he didn't expect to die, and his entire plan clinched on the rest of humanity remaining oblivious to it. He wanted man to be free of religion to starve the Chaos Gods of worship. The whole plan was based on keeping the knowledge of Chaos from humanity. Why would he say "right, I've got this plan, no one is allowed to form a religion because I'm trying to defeat the Chaos Gods which rely on the religions of the sentient species". if people knew, they would be curious to find out more about Chaos. Remaining oblivious is far easier than enforcing a law. Oh, and because only The Emperor was capable of carrying out the plan, no one else could be trusted.

I kind of agree. The Necrons are described as being a near invincible race. As soon as they all wake up, the Imperium is screwed.

I don't understand this point. Nearly every world has it's PDF. The size of the PDF depends on the population of the planet. Armageddon likely had a huge PDF to defend it. Defending a planet is probably a lot different than defending a single country. When a large threat that the PDF cant deal with is encountered, more regiments of Guard and other military forces are called, meaning that there are a huge amount more forces on the ground when needed.

Well because if they did that there would be no story. Why would you want to start applying logic to fiction? It ruins the point of the fiction if you start thinking about the why's when it doesn't matter.

When does the Imperium always say that other races are 'weak'? If they say that, they don't mean they are physically weaker than a human, they are generalizing them as inferior to the human design. Why is the Eldar thinking that humans are primitive odd? The Eldar are arrogant because they have better technology, better morals and were once the rulers of the galaxy. They see the Humans kill each other, burn worlds and act with a heavy hand all the time, and know that they could do better, why is being arrogant in fiction odd?. Sure they created Slannesh, but now they have a firm control over their very nature, do humans? No. they are the same, they believe they are superior, that it is their right to rule, just like the Eldar thought. Humanity is only stopped from creating another Chaos God because they aren't as psychically attuned to the Warp as the Eldar, and their faith is placed in a very real and powerful figure, that actively protects them, so the collective faith of humanity is not misplaced into worship of the Chaos Gods.

What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks to bio-engineering.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Odd things? Like learning a while ago that "on most Imperial worlds is peace. They never saw conflict and they don't react to one". So only 20-30% of Imperium worlds is under some kind of warfare. Why rest 70% don't raise troops and send them as a support? If Imperium is already in danger to have it's border worlds overrun...

And why Emperor didn't tell anyone what his plan for Humanity was? In 41'st millennium every fool with little power has his own "Emperor's plan" for Humanity. Like it was a hard thing to say: "Do this, do that, don't worship me - EVER!!!"

Or making a enemy that is almost indestructible ( Necrons ), that really kills the mood and balance. Speaking of witch, Imperial Guard is the most unbalanced race ( if you have enough of them you win every game ). Why don't they drop new Necron codex and balance them already?

And that planets are a little things in 40k when you need several Regiments of Guard ( 100.000 Guardsman ) to hold down entire planet ( when in reality you need a LOT more troops to hold a country ).

Or Imperium's clever use of troops ( in Ultramarines they used 100 Marines from IF to guard one book? They could stash it on Holly Terra and use that 100 Marines somewhere better ). I swear when I looked at that I wondered: "Somewhere in the Imperium 1000 Space Marines and 30 Guard Regiments are guarding the place where Emperor took a dump once - and now it's sacred".

ANd the fact that Humanity say for every alien species that is " weak", when in reality every Ork is larger than Human, and it can carry more and kill every Human in 1 on 1 fight. ( except SM ). And Eldar thinking about Humans as "weak" and "primitive", yet Humanity didn't make new Chaos god that's eating their souls, surviving for 10.000 years even with all the sh** that is coming to consume us and every time stand victorious even at the most grim odds against us. And not to mention that Humanity control million worlds while Eldar have none left ( at least main worlds ).

The fact that Orks just make new ones and already have a armor and axe to give to everyone. Some even got a gun.

I will thing of more soon..............

Not every world can give troops for various reasons, location, population, role of world eg. Agri world. Saying that, many of those 70% DO give troops to back up war torn worlds, its just that so many guard die trying to defend them that they need constant reinforcement.

Because he didn't expect to die, and his entire plan clinched on the rest of humanity remaining oblivious to it. He wanted man to be free of religion to starve the Chaos Gods of worship. The whole plan was based on keeping the knowledge of Chaos from humanity. Why would he say "right, I've got this plan, no one is allowed to form a religion because I'm trying to defeat the Chaos Gods which rely on the religions of the sentient species". if people knew, they would be curious to find out more about Chaos. Remaining oblivious is far easier than enforcing a law. Oh, and because only The Emperor was capable of carrying out the plan, no one else could be trusted.

I kind of agree. The Necrons are described as being a near invincible race. As soon as they all wake up, the Imperium is screwed.

I don't understand this point. Nearly every world has it's PDF. The size of the PDF depends on the population of the planet. Armageddon likely had a huge PDF to defend it. Defending a planet is probably a lot different than defending a single country. When a large threat that the PDF cant deal with is encountered, more regiments of Guard and other military forces are called, meaning that there are a huge amount more forces on the ground when needed.

Well because if they did that there would be no story. Why would you want to start applying logic to fiction? It ruins the point of the fiction if you start thinking about the why's when it doesn't matter.

When does the Imperium always say that other races are 'weak'? If they say that, they don't mean they are physically weaker than a human, they are generalizing them as inferior to the human design. Why is the Eldar thinking that humans are primitive odd? The Eldar are arrogant because they have better technology, better morals and were once the rulers of the galaxy. They see the Humans kill each other, burn worlds and act with a heavy hand all the time, and know that they could do better, why is being arrogant in fiction odd?. Sure they created Slannesh, but now they have a firm control over their very nature, do humans? No. they are the same, they believe they are superior, that it is their right to rule, just like the Eldar thought. Humanity is only stopped from creating another Chaos God because they aren't as psychically attuned to the Warp as the Eldar, and their faith is placed in a very real and powerful figure, that actively protects them, so the collective faith of humanity is not misplaced into worship of the Chaos Gods.

What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks toWTbio-engineering.

WTH? Where did you get the idea that Eldar are morally better than humans? Because they don't fight each other you are wrong here is the evidence-

Eldar page on lexicanum.com wrote:Although not common, sometimes Craftworld disagreements will cause two to clash on the field of battle, though this is always a last resort.

Eldars don't always control themselves their are Eldar who leave their craftworld and become pirates who are extremely vicious, brutal but still slightly better than Dark Eldar. The Eldar are xenophobic in that they believe that they are the superior species of the galaxy and that the galaxy is their birthright. A birthright the lesser species like humans have stolen from them. They will gladly sacrifice billions of another race to save a few thousand of theirs.

The Imperium is not heavy handed in its interaction with its people when you are talking about psykers. Human psykers are an evolutionary development whereas Eldar were created to be psykers and have add millions of years for practice on how to handle their powers. Humans don't have this luxury since because they are evolving they suffer all the weaknesses of being a psyker without having that the Eldar being created fully ready by the Old ones didn't have to suffer through. It has been said by Eldar that if they ever got to recreate the Eldar empire they would exterminate their enemies- all of them. [sarcasm]Yah! a very moral species.[/sarcasm]

Alll races of 40k suck when it comes to morality.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Friend, the books you're reading are Imperial Armour books. They never have the Imperium win any battle without first making them look incompetent. Even then the Imperium almost always lose. The Taros campaign is nothing but Tau masturbation at its finest since everything that could possibly go wrong for the Imperium did go wrong with the Tau not suffering any bad luck that seemed to plague the Imperium . As for Kastoreal Novem another fluff disaster, still better than G"masturbating Marines and Tau"W.

All right, so here's another one:

Why is Abbadon still alive, and in charge of the Black Crusades after 12 (and arguably 13) failed attempts to breach the Cadian Gate???

I thought the Chaos Gods lacked two main things: patience and mercy?!?

On the subject of why all the races are bipedal, 2 arms, 1 head, etc... Dr. Who has a theory that works well.

The Time Lords, or in this case the Necrons, were the first sentient species in the Galaxy. They imprinted their format upon the Psychic Background of the Universe (read: the Warp). Yes, now they're non-presences in the Warp, but they had some presence before the C'tan dug their claws in.

Anyways, when the Old Ones went to create new species (Orks, Eldar, Humans) the format of the Necrons (bipedal) was already there so it was the easiest way to make them. This also explains why most daemons are bipedal.

Tyranids? I guess you are what you eat!

or err... in all depictions of the emperah on his throne of gold, is he a dried out carcass. how the feth, can he still have any juice left in his brain for the so called "psychic might" he wields?

Or, how can, in the fluff of course, one marine lock down an entire planet, whereas a company of marines get their arses handed to them (damnos, calth, espandor etc etc)

Or, suffer. naught. the. mutant. to. live; let's talk about that, and say blood angels, flesh tearers, salamanders, blood drinkers. (i'd also include sarpedon and his merry band of muties but they're excommunicated loyalists)

oh hey i know one other thing, the mechanicum and basic firearms, how the frakk is it that they can build huge honking artillery uniquely, despite lack of STC's and if we count in the void dragon slumbering below giving them dreams of technology lost, can they not build a newly developed heavy bolter that doesnt look like a lego brick with a pipe extruding.

ahem *cough* *snarl*

iproxtaco wrote:
What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks to bio-engineering.

i am talking about: one minute the Ork is formed - in the next he already have a axe and a dakka. AS well as his 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 brothers....

Tyranic Marta wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:No, wait, because that would being CS Goto into canon...

It would be an abomination that must never come to pass.

????? sorry i dont follow

blessed ignorence,

be glad your Mind hath not been raped by the abominations that hath flowed from the pen of former BL author C.S. Goto.


his great Fetish with Multi-lasers, the transforming tanks, the tank surfing Terminators being BFFs with Kasirkins....

Eldars don't always control themselves their are Eldar who leave their craftworld and become pirates who are extremely vicious, brutal but still slightly better than Dark Eldar. The Eldar are xenophobic in that they believe that they are the superior species of the galaxy and that the galaxy is their birthright. A birthright the lesser species like humans have stolen from them. They will gladly sacrifice billions of another race to save a few thousand of theirs.

The Imperium is not heavy handed in its interaction with its people when you are talking about psykers. Human psykers are an evolutionary development whereas Eldar were created to be psykers and have add millions of years for practice on how to handle their powers. Humans don't have this luxury since because they are evolving they suffer all the weaknesses of being a psyker without having that the Eldar being created fully ready by the Old ones didn't have to suffer through. It has been said by Eldar that if they ever got to recreate the Eldar empire they would exterminate their enemies- all of them. [sarcasm]Yah! a very moral species.[/sarcasm]

Alll races of 40k suck when it comes to morality.

Generally Eldar DO control the side of themselves that created Slannesh. The Eldar Paths? Every Eldar bar the pirates have controlled their excessiveness side to some degree, even The Exodites. Yes I agree to an extent. The Eldar believe they should be the ones to rule the galaxy and that they are superior, but they would befriend races like The Interex because they see them as sophisticated and moral, and more like the Eldar than the Imperium.

Yes, the Imperium IS heavy handed with its own people. You're talking about a very specific group that is a very small minority, and even then the Imperium don't treat the matter delicately. Every world has to round up their psykers, so they can be taken to Terra for various purposes that could end up being mercilessly sacrificed to The Emperor. The Black Ships that do this job are described as horrible places that only those of steely resolve can endure a trip on. Any rouge psykers are killed, large syndicates end up having half the innocent population killed, and worlds fallen under the sway of a rouge psyker or if a psyker has opened the Warp is scoured of taint killing a large amount of the population, or Exterminatus is carried out to kill a few corrupt.

I never said the Eldar were a moral species, you made that up. I said they are more moral than the Imperium. They can tolerate civilized Xenos, they won't destroy entire systems to find a few traitors, but yes, they would gladly bring the Imperium to its knees and destroy it to bring about the return of The Eldar Empire. Explain this point about Human Psykers, that sentence is nigh impossible to understand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
What are you talking about? Do you mean, why does every Ork have a weapon? Well because they make them out of scrap, a choppa is just a blade with a handle after all. Every piece of Ork tech is simple and their design is coded into the memory of the Orkish race. The more advanced tech are built by the Mech Boyz because they already know how to make them thanks to bio-engineering.

i am talking about: one minute the Ork is formed - in the next he already have a axe and a dakka. AS well as his 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 brothers....

Again, they make them out of scrap. Savage Orkz will not use metal, they will use wood, or stone to create the same weapons (obviously not guns). They don't just spring into existence with a gun and a choppa, THEY MAKE THEM. They ability is coded into their very nature. I'm not sure whether every Ork can actually make a shoota, but Mech Boyz definitely can, so they mass produce them. They also scavenge a lot of stuff from other Races, like tanks.

They are desribed as hatching, then finding something to use as a weapon

this could be a stick, rock, pair of false teeth, rubber chicken .. whatever it takes to beat someone down and take their gear as upgrades

Choppa = anything used to maul something with in CC (the description is very broad)

Ranged weapons are either looted (if spored outside of an ork held area) as a tradeup from bows and spears or bought/stolen/traded if they spore inside an ork area.

Why doesn't somebody just commit suiccide after killing Lucius, that would stop him coming back. Or blowing up his ship or having masonary fall on him, yet we keep trying to him in CC and end up turning into him

And why don't heavy weapon squads have access to Multi-lasers and Heavy stubbers?

Ammo problems.
A multilaser would burn through a man portable battery very quickly.
Heavy stubbers fall down against heavy bolters for some reason... can't remember what.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Why doesn't somebody just commit suiccide after killing Lucius, that would stop him coming back. Or blowing up his ship or having masonary fall on him, yet we keep trying to him in CC and end up turning into him

Because people don't realize that Lucius will do this until it actually happens, and because you can't control yourself once you kill Lucius. There wouldn't be a character if people started using logic.

iproxtaco wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Why doesn't somebody just commit suiccide after killing Lucius, that would stop him coming back. Or blowing up his ship or having masonary fall on him, yet we keep trying to him in CC and end up turning into him

Because people don't realize that Lucius will do this until it actually happens, and because you can't control yourself once you kill Lucius. There wouldn't be a character if people started using logic.

But there is still a proccess of slow metamorphosis lasting 4 weeks in which they have time to react........
I just really don't like Lucius, having read some the HH novels he started out OK but just turned around as a complete c**t

That and it doesn't work if he's killed by, say, Necons, or Tyranids, or even Tau, really, since they don't seem to take any satisfaction in killing.

Or if he would be, say, killed by a land mine, or a shell hit, or anything else that his killer has no idea that he killed anyone at all.