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First, thanks everyone for the feedback! its nice to see that you enjoy the model.

Manchu wrote:

NoseGoblin wrote:

Manchu wrote:They look great! I'm sure you'll fill your pre-order slots

But please, please, please seriously consider making a smaller scale version of the Crusader as mentioned above. GK players will literally throw their money at you.

Lol... Already working on that. I have been updating the CAD files and merging components. It wont be as posable but it also wont be difficult to build. The limited # of parts will keep the price down and get the model within reach, $$ wise, of a much larger number of gamers.

As it stands right now, the 15mm scale versions are first on the to-do list. Then the 3 other 28mm variants and their 15mm counterparts.
When will it be done? no date yet but its a rush priority for me.

If you manage to capture the feel of the Crusader in a smaller scale, I will buy one from you -- and I don't even play GK. My only suggestion echoes one already mentioned: work on the sword a bit (more "gothic") and/or maybe consider offering (for separate purchase, even) other weapons.

No plans on revising the sword right now but I would not be adverse to offering another design. As far as capturing the feel... It will be an exact match only smaller with things like the linkage and hydraulics fused into a fixed position. The "look" will be nearly a spot on match for the larger versions.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:What optional weapons are there (or going to be)?

Right now I have left and right hand versions of the claw and Vulkan cannon the sword and scythe are ambidextrous so they work on either left or right. As far as currently designed weapons... you can see them here.
http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2010/01/some-weapon-options.html

If you make the smaller version I'll virtually...no...I WILL commit to buying at least one if not two. You can even PM me for my e-mail so call me on it. In that event I may even spring for the big guy depending on my finances at the time. Is the price on the larger model set or is that a pre-order special?

coyotius wrote:If you make the smaller version I'll vitually...no...I WILL commit to buying at least one if not two. You can even PM me for my e-mail so call me on it. In that event I may even spring for the big guy depending on my finances at the time. Is the price on the larger model set or is that a pre-order special?

Thats the pre-order price... the Retail price is what I will need to sell them at, barring a holiday X-mas sale or some such thing.

NoseGoblin wrote:No plans on revising the sword right now but I would not be adverse to offering another design. As far as capturing the feel... It will be an exact match only smaller with things like the linkage and hydraulics fused into a fixed position. The "look" will be nearly a spot on match for the larger versions.

Well, sir, you have at least one guaranteed customer right here. I'd love to see some alternate designs for the sword and the Heavy Psyca--er, Grendel Siege Mortar as well as a hammer.

Although not many will be able to afford the big Crusader, you have really set yourself up for future smaller models here. This thread proves that you've achieved a design aesthetic that is truly in demand at the moment. I know that will taper off in the next few months but I think you'd have a steady market for a less expensive 5" miniature -- and I really don't think posing is really too much of an issue at that scale.

To be perfectly frank, I have never been interested in fielding a GK army until I saw this and now I'm getting all sorts of ideas, browsing through GW's site. I wish GW understood more clearly how much independent sculptors actually helped them. OK, OK, I'm not going to drag this off topic.

These guys are awesome. If I ran Apocalypse-sized games, I'd already be trying to justifying buying one to the missus. As things stand, I will definitely be your customer as soon as you start making a mini-Crusader!

Ohh...AAAHHHH....



NERDGassmmm....

Manchu wrote:Well, sir, you have at least one guaranteed customer right here.

In an earlier thread, I also proposed using the 15mm scale version as a dreadknight. Here the answer he gave me then:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/347738.page

NoseGoblin wrote:I have no idea what the size of the DK is.... a 15mm Crusader and Mortis will be about 4.25" to the top of the shoulder... Just a guestimate, but I would imagine the to be priced at $40 to $60 depending on what the print and mold costs are.

So almost the same size and price as the GW Dreadknight!

I stand to say well down forget the nay sayers Im in can't wait to order.

It'll be the wife that says "Nay!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How does one order? When I click the 'Models' button I see the skull guy and the vulcan cannon, but no "buy me" button. Am I missing something? Does the site not like FireFox? Surely there's more than 2 products? What am I doing wrong?

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:It'll be the wife that says "Nay!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How does one order? When I click the 'Models' button I see the skull guy and the vulcan cannon, but no "buy me" button. Am I missing something? Does the site not like FireFox? Surely there's more than 2 products? What am I doing wrong?

Your not doing anything wrong

"Within the next few days, we will open up both the Leviathan Mortis and the Leviathan Crusader for Pre- Orders. Pre-Orders will be given at a reduced price for a limited quantity of models. I will update the website and announce the opening for pre-orders on the DreamForge-Games Blog. I expect to open pre-orders on Thursday the 28th or Friday the 29th of April and will make an announcement on the DreamForge-Games Blog http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/ "

They are disabled while I update the website and get all the content ready to go for launch tomorrow or Friday.... Sorry about that. Just keep an eye on the Blog and you will see the announcement that pre-orders are open.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:What optional weapons are there (or going to be)?

All the standard Crusader and Mortis weapons can be purchased separately, and are swappable on the finished model, without conversion or magnets. Try that with a Warhound...

weapons available are:

Vulkan Cannon
Executioners blade (sword)
mauler claw (left and right)
scythe

Along with the weapons that will be released with the later leviathan variants. Im not sure what the weapons are called, but check out the Dreamforge blog (or maybe the website) has pictures of the other variants and their weapons.

All above info is to the best of my knowledge, Nosegoblin may have some to add or change.

Never mind, I found it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm favoring the Power Fis...err...Claw.

Mad4Minis wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Padre wrote:Mark,

They look fantastic - will definitely be intouch re a couple of the seperate weapons. Glad all worked out with the caster.

"Wow... been waiting for this... but at those prices...maybe not." - I would say, that comparatively speaking: size vs no. of parts vs. detail - these leave Forgeworld for dead, price wise.

Padre^.

8.5" tall... yes, they are good not-knight titans... but not at that price. If the parts are internal, there is no real need for 143 parts each.

The 143 parts is because its fully pose-able. Every joint is pose-able. You really need to check out the assembly instructions to appreciate what really goes into this kit.


Im all in fro one of these, been waiting for a couple months for the orders to open.

When you put it that way... i didnt realise that the internal parts were for posing it, I though ball joints would suffice, but there are model hobbyists and there are model hobbyists

Padre wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Padre wrote:Mark,

They look fantastic - will definitely be intouch re a couple of the seperate weapons. Glad all worked out with the caster.

"Wow... been waiting for this... but at those prices...maybe not." - I would say, that comparatively speaking: size vs no. of parts vs. detail - these leave Forgeworld for dead, price wise.

Padre^.

8.5" tall... yes, they are good not-knight titans... but not at that price. If the parts are internal, there is no real need for 143 parts each.

Actually, at that size, probably a little bit big for Knights. Maybe a Proxy-Warhound?

As per the price...I don't think NoseGoblin is making a huge profit out of these per unit, and for the sheer amount of hobbytime involved in finishing one to it's full potential...at a dollar-per-hour rate, probably very cheap.

As always (and I mean no disrespect), the simple answer is "If you don't agree with the price, don't buy it."

Posting in a thread about your dislike of the price will most likely not influence those who are keen to buy, nor will someone saying "Oh, I'm going to buy one" change your mind about them.

Agree to disagree!

Padre^.

PS Am now going to find a real deep fox-hole before the mad little "KNIGHTS ARE NOT TITANS!!!" poster turns up in the thread...

My initial comment was my own opinion. It was in no way intended to sway others. However, like yourself and other members on this public forum, I am entitled to express an opinion. nothing in my original post was offensive, so why are you and others being defensive?

Grundz wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:Wow... been waiting for this... but at those prices...maybe not.

Did you expect them to be free?

He was expecting a titan sized model with 120+ more individually posable parts and far more detail to be cheaper, apparently

As above, I did not expect them to be free, but at the same time I did not believe them to be the equivalent size of a warhound titan. If they are the same size, then yes, the price is about right and I may consider pre-ordering. However, Grundz and Valhallan, being rude does not add to this discussion thread.

@AvatarForm: It's only an inch shy of a Warhound's stature and that preorder price brings it to nearly $100 less. And that's before you spend another $60 on each of the Warhound's arms! To be honest, if Dreamforge can avoid the casting troubles FW has become notorious for -- especially regarding the Warhounds -- well, that's a good bit a value right there. Of course, if you're anything like me, you fell in love with the Warhound's iconic profile a long, long time ago and so it's really apples and oranges anyhow. But when you're just comparing how much resin you're getting for your buck, it sure looks like Dreamforge has the solid lead.

Manchu wrote:@AvatarForm: It's only an inch shy of a Warhound's stature and that preorder price brings it to nearly $100 less. And that's before you spend another $60 on each of the Warhound's arms! To be honest, if Dreamforge can avoid the casting troubles FW has become notorious for -- especially regarding the Warhounds -- well, that's a good bit a value right there. Of course, if you're anything like me, you fell in love with the Warhound's iconic profile a long, long time ago and so it's really apples and oranges anyhow. But when you're just comparing how much resin you're getting for your buck, it sure looks like Dreamforge has the solid lead.

Agreed, especially after looking at the Mortis assembly instructions I feel its worth every penny. If you're in the market for a GK themed Titan for apoc games this is it. I've changed my mind...I'll be pre-ordering. Now I just need to figure out how to sculpt some script into/on the armor to complete the GK feel.

1.) I really love the model* but it's out of my price range. That being said, I don't consider it to be overprice for what you get, any more then, say, a Porshe, which I also could not afford. On the contrary, it seems like a really good value when compared with, say, a warhound. I'd say I even like yours better then the warhound, lookswise...

2.) Except the sword. That is not good, frankly. The little tiny shield isn't helping either. I know the arms are swappable, just saying. Do you make a left handed power claw, or can the existing one be swapped to left handed? Because it's really nice.

3.) The assault cannon is probably the best assault cannon I've ever seen on any model, ever.

4.) If you made these so they were approx 6 inches tall, I'd be all over one.

I dont feel there is much comparison with FW. If you've actually handled a warhound or tried to put one together you'll realize how poor the molds are, the parts themselves are warped or dont fit.. Frankly FW uses cheap materials to get a much higher profit margin (hence why im scared of GW going to resin)

From the pictures it looks like this model is using higher quality materials just from the color. Yeah FW stuff is detailed, but so are a lot of models. If they didnt produce models for 40k that were unique then no one would even buy much from them I imagine. Now, many of the newer models are pretty good but the OLD molds need to be redone

I would much prefer this over a warhound, its a ton cheaper (by over 200 if you preorder this), satisfies the "looks cool" requirement and probably could be useful on the battle field especially as a super heavy killer

Yeah its expensive, but what isnt in this hobby? Arguing FW is just silly imo when they sell ridiculous things like 4 lasguns for 9$ or fortress walls for 1000$ :p Trust me, there are A LOT of ways to burn your money

This is a good way to use your money if you want something cool for apoc

Mmmmhhmm do want. Too bad I don't get paid until the 10th of May :(

Oh well, I'll definitely put this on the "to get" list for this year.

AvatarForm wrote:

My initial comment was my own opinion. It was in no way intended to sway others. However, like yourself and other members on this public forum, I am entitled to express an opinion. nothing in my original post was offensive, so why are you and others being defensive?

As above, I did not expect them to be free, but at the same time I did not believe them to be the equivalent size of a warhound titan. If they are the same size, then yes, the price is about right and I may consider pre-ordering. However, Grundz and Valhallan, being jerks does not add to this discussion thread.

Hmmm...I think...

A) You might be reading a little too much into some of these posts. Don't forget text is not real crash hot at comveying nuance and intonation.
AND
B) You've definitely taken more from the two posts you reference than I did upon reading them. You might also want to look at the fact that they haven't called you any school-kiddy-level names, whereas you haven't shown them the same courtesy.

Considering you've also done a back-flip on your opinion in the light of more information...well....

Padre^.

I think the kit looks incredible, and knowing firsthand what the cost are for doing resin products I find it to be very well priced. It's an exspensive piece but anything involving that many parts will be. FW's warhounds don't have that range of mobility or complexity and aren't any cheaper.

I've built tons of FW models (everything from DKK infantry to a thudnerhawk) and everytime they are a giant pain in the butt in terms of casting quality and warpage, they require a ton of work to get things to fit right and honestly cost far more than than they should. People pay through the nose for the FW name and endure with substandard kits, but balk when an independant company puts out a product like this that's better in just about every aspect. Other than fanboy-ism and blind love for GW I don't get it. FW models are better than GW plastics but it's not like they are made of gold.


Mark you'll have an order coming from me once that goes live, I love this model and I've been drooling over it for months. Don't listen to the people crying about price, those people would find a way to complain even if it were free. Anyone that is a long time player knows that this is an exspensive hobby, if it's too rich for them oh well they can stick to stock plastics and scratchbuilds.

For getting the cadillac of miniatures I think it's a great price and can't wait to see this firsthand.

paulson games wrote:Don't listen to the people crying about price, those people would find a way to complain even if it were free. Anyone that is a long time player knows that this is an exspensive hobby, if it's too rich for them oh well they can stick to stock plastics and scratchbuilds.

For getting the cadillac of miniatures I think it's a great price and can't wait to see this firsthand.

Seconded!

Love the idea of the "Dreadknight" size Leviathan , and would buy one at least - the "stock" one is a little too "action figure" for me...

Padre^.

(Quietly working out how to sneak the purchase of a pair of Vulkan cannons (1 left-, 1 right-handed) past the missus...)

Can't help thinking, that model would look better with an axe.
Not a sword .
A nice twin blade battleaxe

That thing looks incredible.

And I actually love the sword's look too! If you make it smaller I'm glad to hear you're not changing it.

Manchu wrote:@AvatarForm: if Dreamforge can avoid the casting troubles FW has become notorious for -- especially regarding the Warhounds -- well, that's a good bit a value right there.

No worries about quality. The Leviathans were delayed a couple weeks ago due to quality. NoseGoblin wasnt releasing them until they were top notch. He went through extensive work with the caster to make sure they were. They should put FW average titan quality to shame.


Once i get mine I plan to do a full build thread, including pics of the parts right out of the box, unless NoseGoblin has some and wants to post them. Im not sure what the final beast will be, but I have tons of conversion ideas.

Padre wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

My initial comment was my own opinion. It was in no way intended to sway others. However, like yourself and other members on this public forum, I am entitled to express an opinion. nothing in my original post was offensive, so why are you and others being defensive?

As above, I did not expect them to be free, but at the same time I did not believe them to be the equivalent size of a warhound titan. If they are the same size, then yes, the price is about right and I may consider pre-ordering. However, Grundz and Valhallan, being jerks does not add to this discussion thread.

Hmmm...I think...

A) You might be reading a little too much into some of these posts. Don't forget text is not real crash hot at comveying nuance and intonation.
AND
B) You've definitely taken more from the two posts you reference than I did upon reading them. You might also want to look at the fact that they haven't called you any school-kiddy-level names, whereas you haven't shown them the same courtesy.

Considering you've also done a back-flip on your opinion in the light of more information...well....

Padre^.

Given Grundz tends to dogpile anyone who disagrees with me recently... you woudl read his comments differently to myself. Its more intent than actual words typed.

NoseGoblin wrote:A while back I wrote this up... http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2010/11/i-am-great-and-powerful-oz.html

It turns out to be a VERY accurate estimate of the costs involved and of my profit margin.

Wow, that is a fantastic article. It always chafes me that some people seem to think of resin casting as a magical Xerox machine that craps out miniatures for free. They don't think about the equipment, materials, or skills involved. Those costs add up quickly.

I think the price is very fair, but sadly it's out of my price range too. I'm hoping one of my local guys will pick it up, so I'll at least get to see it!

On the other hand, those 15mm sized ones sound very doable. Hurry up with those, will ya?

- H8

AvatarForm wrote:Given Grundz tends to dogpile anyone who disagrees with me recently... you woudl read his comments differently to myself. Its more intent than actual words typed.

Actually I poo on anyone that poos on something that is awesome, you aren't a unique snowflake

My intent wasn't to upset anyone, it was to point out that we've been being screwed by forgeworlds shoddy casting of huge, less detailed models for years, nosegoblins machines are boats of awesome flowing in a sea of guitar solo's, and are priced very reasonably for such a detailed model, its a model first and big ass, super detailed models are expensive.

That being said: noser: do you expect the chainsaw arm to be released with the other things or is that a later part?

Really love the kits, great work.

Awesome to see this together! I'm also not a fan of the sword- it looks so thick where the connection to the arm is so thin. But perhaps it's the angle. Anyway, you can always pick up the fantastic claw or scyth arm if you don't like it

I am pleased to announce that we are now accepting orders!




*If the new content does not display, you may need to delete your browser cache files to view the new pages. I have tested the site with Firefox, IE, Chrome and Opera. If you have any issues with the website, ordering or any questions at all, you are welcome to contact me at this address. mark@dreamforge-games.com

Please read the blurb on the main models page regarding orders.

To all of those who have patiently waited for this release, I thank you!

All the best!
Mark Mondragon
DreamForge-Games

The Dread Knight version will result in, as noted, this condition for you:





I dare say that your version will make people start GK armies!