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Hmmm. I guess you're right. 1 W it is then.

@slugga: They've had around 3-6 thousand years of focused evolution to enhance their hunter characteristics. I do feel that they should have better BS and/or general toughness than a guardsman due to their better targeting technology and armor, but apparently I overestimated in my original statline

Well because this is only fluff vise, then i would guess that an fire warrior would maybe have better BS than an average guardsman, although i've never heard that they would have used genetic modification. And must be remembered that there is a lot of fire warriors so they would never get as excessive training as would an space marine (id say that they would be trained as long as would be normal real life soldiers). And one thing still, if i've read the fluff right then the tau race is only about 1000 years old but I might be really wrong.

darkPrince010 wrote:Hmmm. I guess you're right. 1 W it is then.

@slugga: They've had around 3-6 thousand years of focused evolution to enhance their hunter characteristics. I do feel that they should have better BS and/or general toughness than a guardsman due to their better targeting technology and armor, but apparently I overestimated in my original statline

Tau, with all that training and forced evolution, are still physically inferior to humans in basically every way. They have technology on their sides, not genetics.

They're specifically and intentionally an aversion to the "aliens are always better than humans" trope.

DarknessEternal wrote:They're specifically and intentionally an aversion to the "aliens are always better than humans" trope.

Really? I'd never heard or seen anything to suggest this. I'd thought they were more of an aversion to the "Everything in the 40K universe is Grimdark" trope.

I do admit, the higher BS isn't from better hunting characteristics (my bad). Rather, it's from better targeting equipment. Tau Fire Warriors have integrated targeting systems in their helmets (As opposed to guard helmets, which have for the most part only metal to protect from bad things trying to eat their brains, and the occasional vox radio to recieve orders to kill said bad things). I would assume that the targeting equipment would provide some boost to their BS, at least to above vanilla Guardsmen.

@Epicchaosdude: They don't use genetic modification, they just have a very fast evolutionary rate that ended up focusing the Tau castes into certian physiological roles/shapes, resulting in the stronger/bigger Fire Warriors. The Tau were discovered in M36 (iirc), so they've had 4-5K years to evolve from neanderthal-level to pulse rifles and spaceships.

well seeing prposed rules for base marines,id say chapter master
pts 250+upgrades
ws 10
bs 10
s 9
t9
w 7
i 7
a 10
ld 10
sv 2+,3=with rerolls

master of war.enemys can only hit a master on a 6.he hits on a 2+

fearless
other marine rules involving beating up all types of


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darkPrince010 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:They're specifically and intentionally an aversion to the "aliens are always better than humans" trope.

Really? I'd never heard or seen anything to suggest this.

i think he's referingto that fact that evry alien movie either has force fields,ultra stealth craft,nuclear blasters and is generally more technologicaslly and physically advancd in every way.

or like in AVP/nids,are biological adapted to kill of humans.

Chapter master is overpowered being a chapter master wouldn't raise his strength and toughness that much and ten attacks and seven wounds on something astartes size is kind of ridiculous.

Deadshot wrote:

darkPrince010 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:They're specifically and intentionally an aversion to the "aliens are always better than humans" trope.

Really? I'd never heard or seen anything to suggest this.

i think he's referingto that fact that evry alien movie either has force fields,ultra stealth craft,nuclear blasters and is generally more technologicaslly and physically advancd in every way.

or like in AVP/nids,are biological adapted to kill of humans.

Oooooh. I thought he meant a 40K-specific trope, not a general media one. In that case, I believe that the vast size of the IoM is designed to counter the "outnumbered" aspect of the trope, and the Adeptus Astartes are designed to (for the most part) counter the "better" part.

As for the Chapter Master, I agree with Nicholas that he should be nerfed a smidge for S/T (Probably 8/8 would be better, and leve 7/7 for midrange ICs or veterans or something)

The tau firewarriors had an advanced evolutionary track, but that advanced evolutionary track just made their strongest caste, the fire caste, just as strong as humans. The other castes are super weak.

Agreed, which is why I think you guys are right in saying he should be 1W. I do think he should have BS4 though due to the better targeting technology.

well he is a chapter master.i hear stories of masters holding a whole tyranid invasion or qwaaagh off alone for days and then winning.but nerf his S/T to 8


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loota boy wrote:The tau firewarriors had an advanced evolutionary track, but that advanced evolutionary track just made their strongest caste, the fire caste, just as strong as humans. The other castes are super weak.

in that case
ethereal(water caste)
pts 50
ws 2
bs 2
s 2
t 2
w 1
i 2
a 1
ld 10
sv 2+because hes wealthy and gets tau termy armour

Deadshot wrote:
ethereal(water caste)

Ethereals aren't in a caste. They aren't even the same race as Tau.

Everyone has the same time of evolution, except the Orks and Eldar(being Artificial) and the Nidz.

Anyway, cut it to BS 4 and one wound.

Nicholas wrote:

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I'd actually say Melissia has the Ork about right, so long as she renamed the powers to something good an' proppa.

I'd call the nob more on par with a Marine. Like it is statwise now.

Statwise, a nob is generally superior to a marine right now. especially on the charge, where the nob gets five attacks at WS4/S5/I4, but even the marine charging gets half as many attacks as the nob gets and damned well better make sure both of those attacks hit, wound, and fail their save or the marine, who only has one wound, is dead.

Ork Boyz are as tough as Marines, physically-- Nobs are roughly twice as hard to take out.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Space Marine

WS: 7 BS: 7 S: 6 T: 6 W: 3 I: 5 A: 3 Ld: 10

Wargear: Power Armor(2+ Save)

Boltgun: S: 6 Range: 24" AP: 4 Type: Assault 3, Rending

Bolt Pistol: S: 6 Range: 12" AP: 4 Type: Pistol, Rending

Chainsword: Allows the Space Marine to re-roll rolls to Wound. Rending.

Rules: And They Shall Conquer Fear, Emperor's Tactics, Independent Character

And They Shall Conquer Fear: A Space Marine, and any squad he is with, may re-roll all failed Leadership tests.

Emperor's Tactics: A squad that includes a Space Marine may re-roll Reserve Rolls, Deep Strike Scatter Dice, and Outflank Direction dice.

The problem with these rules that struck me first is that a Space Marine would not be suitably vulnerable to the likes of Lascannons/Railguns/other high strength weaponry that would game-and-fluff-wise instant-death a Space Marine. Marines are incredibly tough, but a meltagun or lascannon blowing a large chunk out of their entire torso is going to end a Space Marine no matter what.
Also, I've never heard of a Boltgun being able to take out a Leman Russ or even Land Raider, which again, these rules make possible.
The same goes for a Chainsword, which is also known to be weak against armour as it cannot get a 'grip' like it can against flesh...
Furthermore, they would now be tougher than a Daemon Prince, more durable than a Carnifex and equal to a Phoenix Lord in combat ability.

The most serious problem as Melissia(?) suggested is how difficult it is to represent a Space Marine within a D6/max-stat-10 system. This is made even worse if you don't change every other unit and weapon in the game, as as a result the Space Marine is equal to some of the best other races can muster.

Melissia wrote:

Nicholas wrote:

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I'd actually say Melissia has the Ork about right, so long as she renamed the powers to something good an' proppa.

I'd call the nob more on par with a Marine. Like it is statwise now.

Statwise, a nob is generally superior to a marine right now. especially on the charge, where the nob gets five attacks at WS4/S5/I4, but even the marine charging gets half as many attacks as the nob gets and damned well better make sure both of those attacks hit, wound, and fail their save or the marine, who only has one wound, is dead.

Ork Boyz are as tough as Marines, physically-- Nobs are roughly twice as hard to take out.

I'd say they are even giving nobs the charge is situational so in a straight up fight Nobs are better in wounds and attacks while Marines have higher initiative BS and armor strength and toughness wise they are the same. Nob takes more punishment and marines are faster, but strength and toughness wise they are the same.

Guardsman:

Ws3
Bs4
S3
T3
I3
W1
A1
Ld6
Sv5+

Wargear: Flak armour, Lasgun, frag grenades

Special Rules:
Stubborn
Tactical fear: This rule grants Hit&Run and Furious Charge to represent an inspired guardsman, very soon fleeing for his life.

Calgar:
WS: 10
BS: 6
S: 5
T: 6
I: 4
W: 4
A: 5
Ld: 10
Sv: 2+/3++

Wargear:
Armor of Antilochus - Termie Armor w/ 3++ rather than 5
Gauntlets of Ultramar - Make Assault 4, not 2
MC Power Sword - Self-Explanatory.

Special Rules:
God Of War - No Change
Titanic Might - No Change
Master Tactics - While Calgar is included in your army, you may choose to reroll all Reserve and Outflank rolls. You may also reroll any attempts to seize the inititive. Lastly, you may choose to reroll the 2D6 determining scatter distance. The scatter die itself, may not be re-rolled.

Check out my thread!

To be honest, most of you guys are going way overboard. Especially you Melissia...

xlEternitylx wrote:3++ rather than 5

He gets a 4++ because of the Iron Halo.

Here's my prediction for how this thread will go.

Favorite Unit From My Army:

WS/BS +4 (distributed as you prefer), they're really good warriors and tough in combat
S and T both +2, they're not nearly as weak as this other unit
W*2, they're really hard to kill, a single bullet wound won't kill them
I+2, they're not nearly slow as this other unit
A*2, they've trained extensively for their entire lives, they should get more attacks than they currently have
Ld 10, these are trained soldiers, they're not going to run away crying
Sv -1, their armor is super futuristic, it would do a much better job of protecting them

Gun gains 2S -1AP and rending, because their guns are described as really destructive

Special Rule #1 that isn't at all balanced
Fearless
Special Rule #3 that makes no sense and isn't balanced

IG Conscript:
WS: 10
BS: 10
S: 10
T: 10
W: 10
I: 10
A: 10
LD: 10
SV: 2+
Lasgun: S10 AP1

I would make the Krwigsman fearless because they've been fighting a 500 year civil war and their planet is a irradiated husk, with the population living underground.

500 year civil war or not, show them a carnifex and they will leg it

also Coolyo you are about as amusing as a Deff Copta crash ¬¬

Fairfeldia wrote:500 year civil war or not, show them a carnifex and they will leg it

also Coolyo you are about as amusing as a Deff Copta crash ¬¬

So extremely amusing? Because a Deff Kopta crash sounds pretty damn funny.

Deadshot wrote:

xlEternitylx wrote:3++ rather than 5

He gets a 4++ because of the Iron Halo.

I meant rather than the implicit 5++ from Terminator Armor. But yea.

Consider also that every single piece of fluff exaggerates horribly when it comes to the awesomeness of the people described within that fluff. If you really want to extend your faction's propaganda you can probably dig up the Movie Marines army list (a 1,500-pt army composed of a Tactical squad and a Rhino) or construct variants for other factions (you have 2,500pts to make a Court of the Young King of overexaggerated awesomeness, for instance).

Ork Boy

WS 4. BS 2. S4. T5. W5. I3. A3.

Wargear: Shoota/Slugga+Choppa; Basic armour.

Shoota-S5 AP5 Assault 2
Slugga-S3. AP6 Pistol

Bezerk nature- Orks can fight on long after they should be dead. A boy locked in combat will remain in play if he is killed, for two turns or till the end of the combat.
Tough physiology-Wounds against orks must be re-rolled unless they cause instant death.
WAAAGH!-All orks on the board gain +1 attack, +1 strength and postpone all dealt wounds for one turn.
Fleet of foot-As is
Mob rules-As is

4pts/model
10-50 in a squad.

Meganob, Invulnerable to everything execpt falling.

Chuck Norris

Pts: 10,000

WS 11 BS 11 S 11 T 11 W11 I11 A11 1++Sv

Weapons:

Law and Order: Chuck's right and left legs. Count as Master Crafted Daemon Hammers that strike in initiative order. They are also Lance, Melta, Rending and, Twin Linked... yes he can shoot with them SEE BELOW:



Chuck has every grenade type from every codex in his beard.

Chuck Norris is a Scoring Unit.

Chuck Norris is a Monstrous Creature.

Special Rules:

Immovable Object: Chuck Norris does not move 6 inches in any direction... He moves the board 6 inches in any direction.

Unstopable Force: In ANY phase you can declare that Chuck is doing a roundhouse kick. Make a test on Chuck's Initiative (A roll of a 1 does NOT fail... Chuck does not fail). Every model on the board takes a Str 11 AP 0 hit. No saves of any kind allowed.

Everyone Settle Down... I got this!: Chuck Norris uses up every slot on the FOC. Even your opponent's and also the poor sod at table three who really wanted to try his new Draigowing with Psyfleman Spam that he totally did not get off the internet.

So what's Bruce Lee then?