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I don't believe it. Someone has finally spoken sense.


Oh, and Dreadnote, I wasn't being snobby. I was simply saying that DakkaDakka has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them.

In any case, why do people complain about something as petty as the price of model knights/monsters/tanks/soldiers when there are far more important matters of price, like the rising cost of food?

Thank you for the wider perspective Agnosto.

Stormrider
see my previous comment regarding PP
Like Agnosto some of us have a perspective looking beyond gaming models.

edit:
Because this is a gaming forum not Which Grocer forum

Dakka bites the hand that feeds?
what are you referring to? GW? My goodness someone that is funnier than the OP.
This thread gets better.

@Chibi: I think it's 100% correct to state that GW, PP and nearly all the comparable models are marked up well beyond a reasonable and fair profit. I don't complain about them being overpriced or unfair because I still buy them and consider them a value in my life towards my hobby/leisure time. It would make me look ridiculous and hypocritical to complain about how unfair something is while still perpetuating it. I see it as a cost/value within my life. As of now the enjoyment I get from the hobby is still greater than the part of my budget it costs. When that changes I will simply work away on all my existing projects until completed and stick to game playing with what I have or find another outlet.

MrMerlin wrote:If you think about it, there is one good thing bout Games Workshop selling their products for ridiculus amounts of money:
Imagine a box of Spees Meweens or anything else cost 4 or 5$; You'd think this would be pretty nice, right?
Now imagine the effect this would have on the hobby: Every noob would buy a billion armies, and the gaming community would be crowded with players who aren't taking the game seriously at all. After all, a box of models only costs 5 bucks. Nobody would paint their models to a high standard because theyd have so many.

So with the high prizes, you will find only the ones who take the hobby seriously will buid up an army.

Edited because of my lousy spelling

I have nothing left to say.

Hell guys, I didn't say Gws prices are good the way they are, I agree, they should be lowered. Im just saying that they might have one positive effect on the average way people treat their stuff.
You seem to think I'm a rich idiot who doesn't want riff raff to lurk around his gaming store, but you're wrong. I'm not rich, the only money i have at the time is what my uncle gave me for birthday (wich was in december) some weeks ago, wich isn't much. So I'm lucky he remembered I turned 16 half a year ago, or else I'd not have any money right now. I can't afford everything I want, so I do want the prices to sink. But i also think that when they do sink, i will buy way to much than what is good for me, wich will result in a huge pile of models on my desk wich will definetly not be painted as good as the ones that i paint now, because now I spent very much time on a unit. This is because I only get a new one every few months.
I would actually take the hobby less serious if a unit cost 5€ or if i was rich, I think. I'd have a billion boxes and I'd never find the time to paint them properly.


Just my opinion, you don't have to agree with it

And with "every noob" in the OP i didn' refer to "poor" people, but to people who do not take warhammer seriously. Like those kids who don't know the rules and take their models out of their backpacks in handfuls to drop them on the table like dice. And while the amount of those kids is nowadays proportional to the amount of spoilt rich-parent runts, you will find much more of them if the prices drop much (wich i also would welcome, but Id still be annoyed by the unserious players.)

Oh my god, I just realized.
This thread is a well concealed "WTF GW PRICES" complaint thread.
Well done sir, well done.

oops nijad myself in my own post, shame over me

MrMerlin wrote:Hell guys, I didn't say Gws prices are good the way they are, I agree, they should be lowered. Im just saying that they might have one positive effect on the average way people treat their stuff.
You seem to think I'm a rich idiot who doesn't want riff raff to lurk around his gaming store, but you're wrong. I'm not rich, the only money i have at the time is what my uncle gave me for birthday (wich was in december) some weeks ago, wich isn't much. So I'm lucky he remembered I turned 16 half a year ago, or else I'd not have any money right now. I can't afford everything I want, so I do want the prices to sink. But i also think that when they do sink, i will buy way to much than what is good for me, wich will result in a huge pile of models on my desk wich will definetly not be painted as good as the ones that i paint now, because now I spent very much time on a unit. This is because I only get a new one every few months.
I would actually take the hobby less serious if a unit cost 5€ or if i was rich, I think. I'd have a billion boxes and I'd never find the time to paint them properly.


Just my opinion, you don't have to agree with it

And with "every noob" in the OP i didn' refer to "poor" people, but to people who do not take warhammer seriously. Like those kids who don't know the rules and take their models out of their backpacks in handfuls to drop them on the table like dice. And while the amount of those kids is nowadays proportional to the amount of spoilt rich-parent runts, you will find much more of them if the prices drop much (wich i also would welcome, but Id still be annoyed by the unserious players.)

You're 16.

End of argument.

Wargaming is expensive in general.

@rockerbikie.
Where do you get that idea from?
TEWT is totaly free all you need is your imagination.
Most army level games use a map and chits.(Paper is so expensive isnt it.... )

If you are refering to table top minature games in particular ....

There are lots of great rules free to down load,and there are tons of great value minatures out there.(Mantic Games, kings of War is a good example.)

If you ONLY buy stuff from a company that are in the buisness of 'selling toy soldier to children.'
You may find it to be relativley expensive.

The realy great thing about GW plc high prices, is that they pay to recruit new children into the wargaming environment .And then the actual wargamers tend to wander off and support companies that offer much better value for money!

DakkaDakka has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I owed Games Workshop anything. My bad. I'll be good, obedient consumer from now on. How silly of me to think I have the right to express my displeasure with a company's practices and take my business elsewhere.

RatBot wrote:

DakkaDakka has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I owed Games Workshop anything. My bad. I'll be good, obedient consumer from now on. How silly of me to think I have the right to express my displeasure with a company's practices and take my business elsewhere.

Dramatic much?

Byte wrote:

RatBot wrote:

DakkaDakka has a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I owed Games Workshop anything. My bad. I'll be good, obedient consumer from now on. How silly of me to think I have the right to express my displeasure with a company's practices and take my business elsewhere.

Dramatic much?

Perhaps a touch, but I think it's roughly equally ridiculous to act like GW has done us all some big favor and we owe them something. It's not like.... I don't know, it's not like they're some family member who's done a lot for us but is going through a hard time that's turned them into an donkey-cave, but we should stand by them.

They're a business. They offer products. If we think it's worth it, we give them money and perhaps tell others about this awesome product. If we don't think it's worth it, we don't give them money and perhaps advise others to avoid said product.

That's it. It's just as silly to say things like we "bite the hand that feeds" us. How is hating Games Workshop anything like that?

Just getting this point across from my last post, if any of the people who viewed see me as a spoiled kid (not saying anyone is) but I work for the money with a part time job and save up for more units gradually and put a majority into a college fund. Just saying.......

yeah this might have been a pointless post but I just wanted to let people know :p

THANKYOU Agnosto for being a voice of reason. My freinds who are sold on the GW brandname always talk about how awsome their minis are. Forgeworld has great detail, but gw models have about as much detail as a kids toy. Italeria makes some 1/72 scale models with ten times the detail of a 40k model. Tamiya has been making great models for a long long time. Everything GW does is simply overpriced now.

Back on topic. If gW was cheaper more people would play and there would be more variety. as it is now i$$$$ really is a limiting factor. I for one have temporarily stopped buying GW stuff and have started to branch out and look into other game systems.

There are people that really take Warhammer, or Wargaming in general, seriously?
Oh wow. I always thought that's just some kind of Internet-Only-thing. Or a myth.

Korraz wrote:There are people that really take Warhammer, or Wargaming in general, seriously?
Oh wow. I always thought that's just some kind of Internet-Only-thing. Or a myth.

I've never encountered them in tabletop gaming, but I am positive they're out there. There are people in every hobby, no matter how silly said hobby is, that take it seriously to the point of being completely ridiculous.

MrMerlin wrote:If you think about it, there is one good thing bout Games Workshop selling their products for ridiculus amounts of money:
Imagine a box of Spees Meweens or anything else cost 4 or 5$; You'd think this would be pretty nice, right?
Now imagine the effect this would have on the hobby: Every noob would buy a billion armies, and the gaming community would be crowded with players who aren't taking the game seriously at all. After all, a box of models only costs 5 bucks. Nobody would paint their models to a high standard because theyd have so many.

So with the high prizes, you will find only the ones who take the hobby seriously will buid up an army.

Edited because of my lousy spelling

Oh boy I've always wanted to do this!!! VICTORY

Mod: EPIC FAIL. Do not attach non-wargaming images to Dakka.

Lanrak wrote:@rockerbikie.
Where do you get that idea from?
TEWT is totaly free all you need is your imagination.
Most army level games use a map and chits.(Paper is so expensive isnt it.... )

If you are refering to table top minature games in particular ....

There are lots of great rules free to down load,and there are tons of great value minatures out there.(Mantic Games, kings of War is a good example.)

If you ONLY buy stuff from a company that are in the buisness of 'selling toy soldier to children.'
You may find it to be relativley expensive.

The realy great thing about GW plc high prices, is that they pay to recruit new children into the wargaming environment .And then the actual wargamers tend to wander off and support companies that offer much better value for money!

I find that Privateer Press and Flames of War is just as bad. Also, I prefer the fluff on GW so that's why I play it. Yes, I was refering to Table Top Minatures in general.

MrMerlin wrote:

htj wrote:

RanTheCid wrote:What do you mean rubbish - it's GW's marketing plan. Seriously... MrMerlin is closer to the truth than you think.

...charging high prices to make people buy less?

No, so people take it mor seriously

I know it is somewhat unfair to people with little money (me included, i have to rely on gifts and christmas money ) but i take it very seriously and many people i know also do. If they had low prizes, many small kids woud buy "those cool mall GI joe guys", not leran the rules properly and not paint them properly. I know a few of those kids, they have rich parents so spending 50€ here and there does not mean anything to them. They dont know the rules, throw their models around the room, paint them with two coulors in what seems to be 2 minutes and so on. That sucks.

I have a friend like that, the only difference is that he gets his mom to paint them , and he never makes a list and always tries to get his three land raiders in a game (even the points don't let him he doesn't know the rules and doesn't care really).

MrMerlin wrote:And with "every noob" in the OP i didn' refer to "poor" people, but to people who do not take warhammer seriously. Like those kids who don't know the rules and take their models out of their backpacks in handfuls to drop them on the table like dice. And while the amount of those kids is nowadays proportional to the amount of spoilt rich-parent runts, you will find much more of them if the prices drop much (wich i also would welcome, but Id still be annoyed by the unserious players.)

If prices were considerably lower more people would game. That means more players of every kind, more good players, more of the people who have abandoned GW would come back. Yes, you'd get more 'non serious' gamers but frankly, you just avoid them and play with the growing pool of gamers that you do like. Why does it matter that some people don't do things the same way as you? The idea that high prices keep these people you don't like out is just silly. It clearly doesn't because they are GWs target market, the young players getting in with a large amount of money to spend in a short period.

You don't really have the right to tell others how they should or should not game, and what counts as 'serious' gaming. It doesn't matter how other people treat their stuff, yeah I want to weep when an expensive model gets treated like trash, but it's not my place to make an issue out of it. If you want to see the sorts of people that consider themselves 'serious' gamers and/or modellers try some of the more po-faced wargames groups and modellers. I just want to roll dice and have fun, I don't really consider Warhammer 'serious' at any level, even tournament level, it's a somewhat dodgy rule set use to play games with monsters and robots. Money doesn't keep bad players out, it just keeps poorer player out.

I've been going into GW stores now for about 20 years and seen prices go up significantly in both relative and real terms. Yet the stores today are nothing like those of the past, a lot of the behaviour that you take a dislike to has increased over the years not reduced.

MrMerlin wrote:Just my opinion, you don't have to agree with it

Yes, this it what is happening. The purpose of a thread is not to have people agree with you or GTFO. Sometimes, what you think is a good idea, others will think is terrible. Those others will tell you so. Getting defensive will not help your argument.

A reduction in the amount of customers means even higher prices doesnt it? to cover costs etc?

Elitism?
MrMerlin, even you would then be scorned by the children of Russian oil Ogliarchs. To be pushed aside by their burley protectors in the scrum for the safe commodity of resin.

Who would want to take your grubby notes in the face of freshly laundered cash?

GW would rather have their tills over flowing with ill spent pocket money rather than from few gamers who treat army men as a serious business.

A reduction in customers does mean an increase in prices if you're Games Workshop. But normally it would be the other way around, as companies decrease prices to stimulate demand.

I'm not saying we do owe them. But think about it. Without GW, THERE WOULD BE NO WARHAMMER FANTASY/WARHAMMER 40'000/LOTR STRATEGY GAME. I'm not saying that you shouldn't express your displeasure towards them. What I am saying is that there's no point bitching and whining about something that, on the grand scale of things, isn't that important.

Besides, do any of you know how expensive it is to make the molds for models? It can cost £1000's to make the mold for a plastic model kit. Add that to the cost of paying the people who sculpt the prototypes, the rising cost of oil, actually casting the model, and you are talking about a LOT of money.

Squigsquasher wrote:I'm not saying we do owe them. But think about it. Without GW, THERE WOULD BE NO WARHAMMER FANTASY/WARHAMMER 40'000/LOTR STRATEGY GAME. I'm not saying that you shouldn't express your displeasure towards them. What I am saying is that there's no point bitching and whining about something that, on the grand scale of things, isn't that important.

Besides, do any of you know how expensive it is to make the molds for models? It can cost £1000's to make the mold for a plastic model kit. Add that to the cost of paying the people who sculpt the prototypes, the rising cost of oil, actually casting the model, and you are talking about a LOT of money.

This is a kind of copy-paste response and doesn't actually address what the OP was saying much. Generally, it's a good point, but it's not really what was being, ahem, 'discussed.'

I saw no discussion-all I saw was ranting, flaming, and general wastes of internet space.

Safe to say, this thread has devolved into a complete waste of time and should be locked.

RatBot wrote:

Korraz wrote:There are people that really take Warhammer, or Wargaming in general, seriously?
Oh wow. I always thought that's just some kind of Internet-Only-thing. Or a myth.

I've never encountered them in tabletop gaming, but I am positive they're out there. There are people in every hobby, no matter how silly said hobby is, that take it seriously to the point of being completely ridiculous.

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/

This is what you get when you take the game seriously.

Yeah, you're right, you've gone from the "I'm just airing an opinion on an open forum, why are people allowed to disagree with me?" to some sort of stock "of well making models is expensive and my god we should be grateful Warhammer even exists" stock response from people who are stuffed with an indefensible position. Consider your arse hit hard by the door on the way out of the thread.