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Ogryn wrote:Tube born? Never heard of this....

Yeah, only the Trueborn can boast of being born by their mother's womb. On page 26 of the codex it singles out Trueborn as not being half-borns birthed in an amniotic tube. On page 12 it goes into more detail. If you don't have the codex then basically it says that Eldar take a long time to carry a child to term and most DE children are grown in the labs of the haemonculi.

Alsath wrote:

Ogryn wrote:Tube born? Never heard of this....

Yeah, only the Trueborn can boast of being born by their mother's womb. On page 26 of the codex it singles out Trueborn as not being half-borns birthed in an amniotic tube. On page 12 it goes into more detail. If you don't have the codex then basically it says that Eldar take a long time to carry a child to term and most DE children are grown in the labs of the haemonculi.

Epic space pirate clones who are into S&M? Count me in.

Ah, so that is why they are called Trueborn...

I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

I like them overall, some of the models come off as stupid or unnecessary though. Mostly stuff like Ssylth.

I think they're a bunch of meanie-faces who make mean guns and mean pointy things to do mean things to cuddly people.

I don't like em, but they make good bad guys.

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

When your signature says MAIM! KILL! BURN! and this is a universe where people get tortured and murdered regularly, being into whips and leather is pretty tame.

Dark Eldar would not fight a big apocalypse battle, but they would sneak onto the imperial equivalent of a MASH unit and scoop up all of the wounded who couldn't fight back. How's that for sadistic?

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste.

I dunno, I think if you look into *why* they do what they do it gets pretty dark. There are 2 things - before the fall they suffered from a horrendus addiction (to sensation; when all the nice ones are done with, the next is pain) which lead to the fall of the entire race, creation of a chaos god, etc. After the fall, the Dark Eldar carried on as usual but with an extra pang of fear and desperation because their souls are slowly being sucked away by Slaanesh. Thus ever more avenues of sensation must be explored to appease She Who Thirsts lest their souls get fully claimed. Their souls are shrivelled and hag-like, but in their arrogance they will not, and cannot, stop.

Something about the extreme fall from grace and the final slog against eternity with a chaos god strikes me as a pretty grim undertone to their flamboyance.

But then I'm very biased, and have always liked that sort of lean on things, darkness of the soul and demons and such
And, of course, I like Dark Eldar!

I have no Dark Eldar opinion...

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

Have you read the codex? Your opinion seems to be based on the extremely dumbed down summary that you see online, things like: "SoB are just nun's in space" and "Orks are angry space mushrooms". I'm not having a go, it just sounds like your judging it without really knowing what your judging. Alsath sums it up fairly well though.

Over all at the moment, Dark Eldar are my favorite race in 40k. I'll see what happens when Eldar are re-release though. Fluffwise I like them the most, so (as long as the fluff doesnt change) when they're brought up to date and all the units are made viable again, it will be a close call. *crosses fingers and hopes that Matt Ward stays the hell away from my codex*

I actually like the DE fluff.

I don't know much about fluff, but I like painting them, doing a commisson for a guy and there is alot of detail in them.

Nice. I love DE paint schemes.

Does anybody have an apoc-sized DE army?

I like the army, pretty good close combat and shooting. I just find that they suffer unduly in shooting because I can't claim my raiders to be out of line of sight and even with a 4+ cover save a stray breeze can blow them out of the sky. I've actually had times where most of my army was killed first turn of the game from shooting (only for two squads of wyches with haywire grenades to annialiate the Guard army ). I also have trouble finding the points to balance taking sufficient anti tank, ordinance and transports with sufficient bodies.

Dark Eldar saves are terrible...

Saves might be terrible but when pain tokens start building its what unit your going to sacrifice to buy you time to give you distance

I love their models, love their fluff, love that it's an army that I can actually field a respectable number of well sculpted females (closest other being normal Eldar, but their low in that department too).

They're going to be my first army, and I expect to lose alot. But I don't care, look at them!

steep learning curve. My wife plays them.......DE...wife....it worries me...

I really like their codex. I don't think it fell (For the most part) to the standard WE R BESTEST TILL NEXT RELEASE problem. I actually think it was really well executed. I wish GW could do this for the other Xenos, learn a lot from it, then go back to Space Marines and apply judiciously. I especially like that the codex has several nice builds that are still fluffy.

In my opinion, Dark Eldar look like a bunch of freaky pain addicted space elves. but they appear to have some interesting army builds and a interesting play style involving speed, apparently more so than other armys.

Gorechild wrote:

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

Have you read the codex? Your opinion seems to be based on the extremely dumbed down summary that you see online, things like: "SoB are just nun's in space" and "Orks are angry space mushrooms". I'm not having a go, it just sounds like your judging it without really knowing what your judging. Alsath sums it up fairly well though.

Over all at the moment, Dark Eldar are my favorite race in 40k. I'll see what happens when Eldar are re-release though. Fluffwise I like them the most, so (as long as the fluff doesnt change) when they're brought up to date and all the units are made viable again, it will be a close call. *crosses fingers and hopes that Matt Ward stays the hell away from my codex*

*distracted* WAIT eldar are getting re-released/redone??? WHAT IS GOING ON!!!



*back on topic* dark eldar are actually a pretty cool army. they are *sorry if i offend anyone * basically just eldar that reliy more on speed and and quick movements. cause well a dark eldar thats not moving is a dead dark eldar. but other then that they are pretty cool. thought they currently just wreck face against eldar. but yeah they are pretty cuol *that wasnt a mistake *

Yes, the Eldar codex needs some touch ups...

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

Have to agree here. The models are very well made, the army is (reasonably) balanced and the play style looks fun...

But the whole 'emo-S&M-black mascara wearing' elf is a bit too... I don't know, juvenile? Immature? I mean, they make me think of what my D&D character used to be like back when I was a teenager and I thought having tons of leather, spikes and deep dark sorrow meant you had a good character... The female Dark Eldar are also hyper-sexualised, which goes a long way toward reinforcing that image. Yes, I know playing with toy soldier is juvenile/immature no matter what... but to use a comic book analogy (another immature hobby of mine) it's still kinda like comparing Spawn to say... Watchmen - one of them actually has some artistic worth.

From a fluff point of view, they also seem kinda pointless... the orks/nids/necron/chaos/tau all want to affect the galaxy in a way... be it destroy, conquer or assimilate it. The Dark Eldar essentially are petty raiders who have very little impact on a galactic scale... which make them rather poor villain. If I'm going to be the bad guy, I want to be THE bad guy, not just some minor annoyance to the frontier world of the Imperium.

Eh, the Dark Eldar are okay I guess but I do hold hate for them since they are responsible for the disappearance of Captain Alessio Cortez
of the Crimson Fists, one of my favorite fluff characters of all time. But I like to think he is off somewhere stomping some Dark Eldar asses into oblivion.

nahhh hes chained to vects dias and has been vects personal "newspaper fetcher" for the last little while. although to his credit it took a few weeks to train him not to jump up on the furniture.

As a Tyranid player, I really don't share the opinion that the Dark Eldar codex is a "balanced" one, as they're pretty much scissors to my paper. That said, I love the model range and the play style.

Tarkand wrote:

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

Have to agree here. The models are very well made, the army is (reasonably) balanced and the play style looks fun...

But the whole 'emo-S&M-black mascara wearing' elf is a bit too... I don't know, juvenile? Immature? I mean, they make me think of what my D&D character used to be like back when I was a teenager and I thought having tons of leather, spikes and deep dark sorrow meant you had a good character... The female Dark Eldar are also hyper-sexualised, which goes a long way toward reinforcing that image. Yes, I know playing with toy soldier is juvenile/immature no matter what... but to use a comic book analogy (another immature hobby of mine) it's still kinda like comparing Spawn to say... Watchmen - one of them actually has some artistic worth.

From a fluff point of view, they also seem kinda pointless... the orks/nids/necron/chaos/tau all want to affect the galaxy in a way... be it destroy, conquer or assimilate it. The Dark Eldar essentially are petty raiders who have very little impact on a galactic scale... which make them rather poor villain. If I'm going to be the bad guy, I want to be THE bad guy, not just some minor annoyance to the frontier world of the Imperium.

Well the story of the dark eldar is just a rehash of the fall of adam and eve; or of Sodom and Gammorah. Basically greed, selfishness, perversion and vice can bring down even the greatest of societies. Its actually a theme picked up in Edward Gibbons Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire as the empire lost its martial vigour to indulgent luxury and forgot the military and civic values of the Empires creators. The whole codex makes the point that such an immoral soicety as the dark eldar is very, very nasty, such as their descriptions of Commoragh. But, because every individual is so self centered and vain they make no effort to come together for anything approaching a common good. Simply put, this is NOT how you are supposed to behave.

I mean to say the Dark Eldar are just BDSM space elves is just so off the mark; did you not read the codex?

Oh how slow am I Commoragh=Gammorah lol!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW at my local club its kind of been accepted that skimmers are flying above all cover and can thus never claim cover saves except by turbo boosting. Is that how the rules are? I found it a bit confusing and vague on the rules for skimmers.

Gorechild wrote:

Brotherjulian wrote: I don't like them, I think a whole race of S&M fetishists crosses the line from Grim-dark to poor taste. As far as army play I guess I don't have an opinion but pretty much all of their fluff, ever, makes me wish for them to be squatted badly

Have you read the codex? Your opinion seems to be based on the extremely dumbed down summary that you see online, things like: "SoB are just nun's in space" and "Orks are angry space mushrooms". I'm not having a go, it just sounds like your judging it without really knowing what your judging. Alsath sums it up fairly well though.

Over all at the moment, Dark Eldar are my favorite race in 40k. I'll see what happens when Eldar are re-release though. Fluffwise I like them the most, so (as long as the fluff doesnt change) when they're brought up to date and all the units are made viable again, it will be a close call. *crosses fingers and hopes that Matt Ward stays the hell away from my codex*

I haven't read the new codex true, I have the old one around somewhere and I played around with them a bit when they came out. You know, where everyone else's codex had some sort of inspirational slogan printed on the spine - the one that says "the loyal slave learns to love the lash" Bear in mind that opinions are only opinions, I've expressed mine as the thread title asked and you're all free to have your own. SOB are nuns in space, but they're fun! I played them too for awhile. Orks are just awesome, I wish I had room for another mega sized army just for the conversion opportunities there!