Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Doomsday Arks really benefit from Grand Illusion, that's a synergy I didn't consider.

I prefer Ghost Arks for a C'tan/Stave list. It seems a waste of time in Scythe spam where either you're min maxing for as many Scythes as possible, or you're fielding costlier larger Immortal units and you don't necessarily want to Quake units that your Immortals are good for taking apart.

The best way to beat Ghost Arks is to close with them, in CC or Melta. Quake can throw a wrench in both.

5 Warriors in an Ark is not a slouch unit. Each Ark is effectively 5 Relentless warriors and it's hard to whittle down the firepower - close and it's 20 Guass shots per Ark.

Stalkers are great to add in (also AV13 and Twin link all that Guass). Doomsday arks, add range and AV13. Command Barges, AV13 and snipe Melta models..




Automatically Appended Next Post:
For comparison, here is Scythe Spam without Quake/C'tan (Yes it is YTTH but obvious build is obvious)

1 Overlord, 180 pts (Warscythe)
1 Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)

1 Overlord, 180 pts (Warscythe)
1 Catacomb Command Barge (Gauss Cannon)

1 Royal Court, 55 pts
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance; Solar Pulse)

5 Immortals, 185 pts (Gauss Blaster)
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Warriors, 165 pts
1 Night Scythe (TL Tesla Destructor)

5 Tomb Blades, 100 pts (TL Gauss Blaster)

5 Tomb Blades, 100 pts (TL Gauss Blaster)

7 Canoptek Scarabs, 105 pts

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts (Gauss Cannon)

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts (Gauss Cannon)

1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts (Gauss Cannon)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Maxing the FA, Troops and HS gives me more confidence in a competitive army than losing a lot to squeeze in the Staves in the above Scythe list.

The Scythe list works better if everything is fast IMO. Doom Scythes over A. Barges is a better bet. Everything goes 12", nothing HAS to be on foot.

But back on topic. How does a defensive Tremor list deal with a static opponent which doesn't have to move? 3 Manticores, blobbed infantry screens with multiple lascannons and heavy weapon CCS/PCS in chimeras will be hard to budge.

1x C'Tan w/ Writhing Worldscape & Grand Illusion
260 pts

1x Harbinger of Despair w/ VoD
5x Deathmarks
155 pts

1x Harbinger of Despair w/ VoD
5x Deathmarks
155 pts

1x Overlord w/ Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge
180 pts

1x Overlord w/ Warscythe
1x Catacomb Command Barge
180 pts

2x Destroyers
3x Heavy Destroyers
260 pts

1x Harbinger of Destruction w/ Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Transmogrification
5x Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
170 pts

1x Harbinger of Destruction w/ Solar Pulse
1x Harbinger of Transmogrification
5x Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
170 pts

1x Harbinger of Destruction
1x Harbinger of Transmogrification
7x Warriors
1x Ghost Ark
271 pts

1x Monolith
200 pts

Total = 2001 (ffffffffffffffuuuuuuu)

Here's my take on the TremorCrons:

Use Grand Illusion to place one or both Deathmark units back into reserve. This will mean that you could have up to 4 enemy units marked. I always use Deathmarks to take out pesky units like Long Fangs, and VoD the Deathmarks with reckless abandon (ironically, the only time I've ever actually suffered a calamitous mishap was the one time I actually tried a conservative placement). If there are no pesky units that need to be marked for death, then I send the Deathmarks after Troops choices. In objectives games, these guys will VoD onto an objective to contest it in the final turn.

I would then have the C'Tan hide in terrain (Immune to Natural Law is awesome on the terrain-heavy table my friends use) or else in the shadow of the Monolith. Nothing new here.

The Catacomb Command Barges are there to generally wreak havoc. Given their mobility, they could be a nightmare for victims of the Tremorstaves.

I prefer to use Immortals with Tesla Carbines over Warriors, because I think the ability to move and shoot in order to kite an opponent is key if you want to make the most out of the Tremorstaves. However, the one boat of Warriors is there to park on an objective if need be.

I don't think there is much point in putting more than one Tremorstave into a single unit, as its effects do not stack. However, by adding in the Lanceteks, each unit now has some anti-tank to it as well as a couple of Solar Pulses, that IMO are must-takes for Necrons.

I've used this list, and it worked quite well.

Well, I agree that Scythe Spam is a tough list (our version of Razor spam?)

My initial vision of this Quake list was more defensive (sit back and shoot), but it's pretty clear that it needs to be played somewhat aggressively. Deepstriking Deathmarks/Immortals, CCBarges, Heavy Destroyers and maybe a Doomscythe or two can really bring the hurt to an enemy that decides to sit back and wait.

So, a procedural question... when does an opponent need to make dangerous tests? Movement phase, and if they run during the shooting phase, and if they assault, right? What if they consolidate?

Can this type of list be run @ the 1500pt level? Or are too many points sunk into the HQ and C'Tan? If it can be done, what would said list look like?

Thanks!

Regarding the IG turtle, we have a solar pulse or two to get ourselves into a killing position - Artillery is not hard to wreck.

Doomsday arks combined with solar pulses are really the answer to a lot of those problems - by positioning ourselves at 60+ inches with a good vantage point - we can have up to 2 turns of unanswered shooting to take out the enemy's long range threats.

Unlike doom scythes, who have to chew their way through the lines of enemy defenses, the doomsday ark can immediately go for the center of the enemy force. It almost makes me want to play 3.

If the enemy wants to deal with your Arks, they need to move into range; and those units are the ones first hit with quake.

Against outflankers/deep strikers, we need units like scythes and tomb blades to be able to fall back into defensive positions to protect them.

Anything that moves within 12" of the enemy is in danger of granting the enemy a 6" assault move, which is doubly bad because then the enemy is locked in CC and can't be shot.

To really make a go of this quake thing, we have to be able to stay between 19"-24" of our enemies, safe from charges but within our shooting distance; forcing enemies to move every round to react to our positioning.

The quake list pushes enemies around; if they choose to remain stationary, that's a benefit, not a drawback, as you can get better firing positions, deny LOS, use cover while taking theirs away. A stationary army isn't assaulting you either.

In fact, a stationary army is giving you control of all 3 phases.
Movement phase - you dictate which units will be in range
Shooting Phase - you are free to cherry pick your tagets
Assault Phase - you decide when assault happens

So feth a stationary army, who cares; if you lose to it, it's your own damn fault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chaplain Pallantide wrote:Can this type of list be run @ the 1500pt level? Or are too many points sunk into the HQ and C'Tan? If it can be done, what would said list look like?

Thanks!

C'tan, Overlord, 3 Stave Court, 1 Pulsetek, Orikan = 660
C'tan, Phaeron, Phaeron, 6 Staves, 2 Pulses = 770

You'll still have enough points for 4 troops, 2 transports, 2 doomsday arks, or some tomb blades, or a monolith, etc...

Ok I'm beginning to see the advantages. Superior fire-power at long range while maintaining mobile superiority. I still have some issues:

- You won't be able to stop all the vehicles in a cheap mechanized list. DE and IG are similar in this regard. They can both field a ton of cheap transports. If searchlights go off or if a few key units don't fail that Dangerous terrain test the Necron line will get fractured pretty quick. Target priority will be key for the Necrons in this match-up knowing which units pose the most threat and having something capable of taking them out. Relying on a 1 or 2 failed DT test seems unreliable. Something has to be able to hit hard at any threats that make it through. Now this said IG is probably easier to deal with. Not all their armour necessarily wants to be mobile. Knock out a few sacrificial searchlighting Chimeras and the job is done. DE is more of a concern. They generally want to get in your face (right where Necrons don't want them to be) and they have too many vehicles you have to deal with. Something to think about (will be doing that myself).

- All foot lists won't be as troubled. An all infantry gunline even less so. IG are really the only ones who do it well. But they can take a couple of turns of pulses and still pump out enough shots after 2 turns and hit back hard. Orks would struggle with mobile elements, but a Green Tide list would perhaps just roll right over into the Necrons deployment zone regardless of Difficult/ Dangerous terrain. That would need to be mitigated somehow. More Tesla seems key in that particular match-up.

Looking forward to more thoughts on the matter.

Vs. Mech armies -

Tesla Destructors can penetrate but have difficulty killing due to -1.
Gauss Gunlines can glance, difficulty killing.
Dangerous terrain tests can only immobilize.

So could use
1. Scarabs
2. Tomb Blades w/ Particle Beamers
3. Wraiths
4. Doomsday Arks (9-1 Large Blast)
5. Warscythes on CCB
6. Doom Scythes
7. Heavy Destroyers
8. A lance court

1 - Scarabs (150)
+ Cost effective Solution
+ Good mobilty
++ Most reliable anti-mech unit in codex
- - - Requires assault
(Can get stuck in assault)
(Having a target to assault can grant the enemy extra movement)

2. Tomb Blades w/ Particle beamers (150-250 for 5)
+ Highly mobile
+ Small blast marker is good for infantry and vehicles
+ Still cheap (150-200 for 5)
- - Only effective against light armor

3. Wraiths (most effective at 250 for 6)
+ Arguably the most cost effective unit in codex
+ Great multi purpose unit
+ Effective against vehicles and infantry
- - - Requires assault
(Can be locked in assault)
(Having models in assault can grant enemies extra movement)

4. Doomsday ark (175)
++ Superior range
+ Large blast is effective against all targets
+ AP1 for extra killyness
- Must remain stationary

5. CCB Scythelords (190 each)
+ Decent mobility
+ Hard, High priority target
++ Capable of wrecking more than 1 vehicle in a turn
- Requires close range
- Sacrificing phaeron and rezorb support for gunline
- Vulnerable to assaults + Grants free movement

6. Doom Scythe (175)
+ Incredibly powerful 10-1 shooting attack that does not scatter
++ Capable of wrecking more than 1 vehicle in a turn
+ Highly mobile
+ Effective secondary weapon can be fired as well
- Requires close range

7. Heavy Destroyers (180)
+ Good weapon range and Strength
+ Highly mobile
- Relatively expensive for damage output

8. Lance-teks (4 costs 140) (assuming we're using at least 1 already, and using 4 infantry squads)
+ Good weapon strength and range
+/- Attached to unit
- Requires transport for mobility





Automatically Appended Next Post:
This was much easier with the wraith wing.


Here's what I'm thinking so far based on what we've all discussed.

If we use orikan, we can deny at least some degree of alpha/beta striking and limit the advance of horde armies to a small degree.

If we use double courts, we'd ideally want 4-5 infantry squads so we can get maximum coverage with our staves and quake the front line of our enemy every turn. 6 Tremorstaves and 2-4 lances so we can also punch those units as well.

If we limit the front line movement, we force the enemy to either bunch up or spread laterally.

With a lateral spread, we want harassing units like scythes and tomb blades; with a bunched up enemy we want big blasts like doomsday arks.

Defending the C'tan is an afterthought, if we lose writing worldscape on round 3, it's not going to break us, the quake feature to reduce movement is what we're really looking at here.

Monoliths can be used as mobile terrain, but beyond that we have better choices in our heavy slot.

Doom scythes are very attractive, but they need to be used with adept precision and only on the very edges of the enemy line to reduce return fire.

So far tomb blades look good - but scarabs are still pretty compelling as a fast attack choice, and heavy destroyers, though not cost effective, are still attractive.

We're all about spreading out the hurt in this build, dealing with the entire enemy force as a single entity; but still aiming for high priority threats.

The gunline needs to be the heart of the army, but I'm still on the fence about warriors in ghost arks or Immortals.

Where's everyone else at?

I like your analysis on a unit by unit pro and con basis. Heavy Destroyers start to look particularly attractive with their range and mobility.

I would stay away from Scarabs. They have to advance to be effective and are much less effective vs vehicles that move 12", which is what people are going to be doing when you Quake them. They will go for positioning earlier as they may not get that opportunity late game.

Wraiths, while great, have the same issue. Any counter attack units your opponents have may be able to deal with them and give consolidate moves forward.

I would look at something like:

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

RC1
HoD tek w/ Solar Pulse
3x Quake teks

RC2
HoD tek w/ Solar Pulse
2x HoD teks
Quake tek

5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
5x Warriors w/ Night Scythe
5x Warriors

2x Heavy Destroyers
2x Heavy Destroyers

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Doom Scythe

Takes you to 1985pts. You have some harassment units, some sit back and shoot units and some solid counter punch if your opponent makes a move forward.

Bunching up and spreading out is now a concern for your opponent. Bunching up makes them vulnerable to Tesla arcs, the Doom Scythe and the Large Blasts. Spreading out means they lack support if you go for the throat with some of the mobile elements (Scythes and CC Barges) on a flank.

For me personally I'm still preferring the Scythes over Ghost Arks.

I think I'd take ghost arks in this list, as you can shoot tremor staves out of them.

I don't think the army needs Phaeron gun line to work.

2 Surfboard Lords with courts
C'Tan with spirit dust and WW.
MSU warriors in arks (180 each)
Maybe a unit of warriors on foot (seismic crucible if you do)
Monolith for the C'Tan to hide behind, earning a 3++.
Then Stalkers, scarabs,annihilation barges to round out the list.

Ha, completely forgot the Writhing Worldscape C'tan in my list. Scrap that then.

I don't think that night scythes are right for this list. It's kinda simplistic, but if your troops are loaded into the scythe, they can't shoot.

Here's my attempt at a 1500 list:
2x Plain Overlords
RC #1
Destructek w/Pulse
Destructek
Transmogtek
RC#2
Destructek w/Pulse
2x Transmogtek
3 units 5x Warriors + Ghost Ark
C'Tan w/WW and SS
4x Tombblades w/Particle Beamers
Doomsday Ark
1500 total

The Sentient Singularity just uses up 30 points I had left over... Dropping it to Entropic Touch and Warscythes on the Overlords might be better. It's not a satisfying list for me... it doesn't 'feel' right yet.

Maybe rely on the monolith for the mobility...
Anyway, at 1500 the list needs to be more defensive because we just don't have the points for the more aggressive components.

EDIT:Second attempt at a 1500 list
2x Overlords, warscythes and CCBarges
RC #1
Destructek w/Pulse
Destructek
Transmogtek
RC#2
Destructek w/Pulse
2x Transmogtek
3 units 5x Warriors
C'Tan with WW and Grand Illusions
2x Doomsday Arks
5x Tombblades w/gauss

I like this much better. Do you think it's on the right track?

I never said anything about having the Troops in the Scythes. They are a fast threat that can push and take advantage of any spreading out. And if your opponent castles you punish them for it with all the Blasts and the Doom Scythes Death Ray.

Now I'm going to think about this some more...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back to the drawing board here. Take the essential units first:

C'tan - Writhing Worldscape and Grand Illusion
4x Quake Teks
1x HoD tek w/ Solar Pulse
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
5x Warriors

That's now a base of 695pts with 4 Troops choices, 1 Elite and at least 1 Royal Court. Realistically we want a 2nd so the HoD tek can have a home too. Then we start to add:

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

Overlord
Warscythe
CC Barge

RC 1 and 2 (combined)
4x Quake teks
2x Pulse Teks

Now that's 1110pts. Then you add the essential heavies (am going with conventional internet wisdom here):

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Up to 1460. I guess this would be the "core" of a Quake list and anything above that would be at the discretion of the player. Tomb Blades, Scythes and H. Destroyers all have a place.

I like where this is going.

I definitely think we have a 4 infantry unit minimum because we want to maximize our quake saturation.

The only time troops should be embarked in night scythe is either for 1st turn placement or late game objective drops. They should never spend 2 consecutive turns embarked.

I'm tempted to agree though that 2 ghost arks isn't a bad choice. Though I'd want to kit it out with 2 small squads embarked in ghost arks, and two large phaeron squads supported by ghost arks.

I'm also tempted to say that heavy support should be 2 doomsday arks and one doom scythe for surgical strikes, or perhaps 2 doom scythes and 1 doomsday ark.

I'll get back in here with some numbers soon.

Perhaps 1 Doom Scythe and 2 CC Barges are enough of a threat first Turn? For sure they will be taking the brunt of the enemies firepower. In that case Night Scythes are perhaps unnecessary and points can be spent buffing up the squads a bit and maybe adding Heavy Destroyers.

So with that in mind:

Adding a Doom scythe, 2 Ghost Arks and 2 Heavy Destroyers take my list total to 1985.

I've liked the Tremorstaves/Writhe/Orikan thing quite a bit so far, though I've only been running two 'staves, as thus far my list is a bit scattered.

Watching this thread eagerly for ideas as well as looking to try a few of these ones. Glad people are thinking on this.

Okay so after a little playtesting, I've come to the conclusion that I really hate Min. Sized warrior squads.

They are almost completely useless, and for a slight price hike they can be tesla immortals and be highly useful anti-infantry models.

Also, murdering the deathstar posed a problem for me, so I came up with an anti-deathstar unit I'm going to try. Cracking armor, that's got to a job for a dedicated anti armor unit, and I kind of like the Heavy destroyers for that. S9 at 36" , not amazing but on jump infantry, I'll take it.

I want to fight and kill infantry, not get into drawn out shooting matches with vehicles. I want my enemies disembarked so they can be zzzzaped by tesla.

The 8 Scarab swarm can also be 2 more Heavy Destroyers. The two Night Scythes can be two annihilation barges, a doomsday ark, or a doom scythe - but I feel like in this set up, the two annihilation barges with underslung gauss are the best move.

The 10 Deathmark Squad gets the Phaeron and the VOD-Tek. Along with a Tremor-tek. Redeployment shennanigans with C'tan, and harassment from the flanks.

So, in the end the 5 infantry units get tremorstaves for quake saturation, 2 lucky immortal squads get pulse teks.

The Night Scythes are here to deposit 2 immortal squads and then feth off, harassing enemy lines, stun locking vehicles and softening infantry.

I left the Scythelord in CCB in as a kamikazi pilot; Sweep a vehicle, disembark, assault a vehicle. Die. Worth it.


Here's what I'm thinking:

HQ: 640
Warscythe-Lord in CCB
Phaeron with Resorb
5x Tremor-teks
2x Pulse-teks
1x VoD-tek

Elite: 450
C'tan - WW, GI
10 x Deathmarks

Fast Attack: 360
2x H. Destroyers
2x H. Destroyers
8x Scarabs

Troops: 540
4x5 Tesla Immortals
2 Night Scythe

4 Heavy Destroyers eh...

What about a stalker and some spiders instead? 1 Triarch Stalker, drop Gauss on it if you like (I wouldn't), and two spyders, maybe one with a gloom prism.

You'd have to shave a couple points somewhere, maybe a couple scarab bases. (you'll be able to create some anyway).

The destroyers are more mobile and have a better effective range than the stalkers - while the stalkers do have multi-meltas which are more effective, they should never be in melta range for this build (so the destroyers are actually better for getting those pens) as I never want to provide my opponent the free assault movement, and especially not to engage a Stalker that could potentially be tied up in cc for the entire game.

The scarabs are meant to be a disposable tarpit, anything the opponent has that can potentially reach ranks before it can be killed (enemy walkers, jump infantry, or hard armored targets) The only reason i'd add a 50 point spyder is to give them an extra 2" on the charge. If anything I'd want spyders armed with particle beamers, and in that case, I'd rather have tomb blades. Trading those scarabs out for another 2 h. destroyers is also a solid decision, I feel.

I think that I might do that for the next playtest.

The way I see it, orikan and the stormlord with a ctan and 2 tremor staves force your opponent to either full reserve to dodge lightning and orikan, or fully deploy and weather the storm so to speak. Thus, the rest of the list should try and take advantage of this.

Necrons cant really block board edges, as the scythe is a tall model like the vendetta so there will most likely be areas you can drive under. No other necron vehicle is fast enough to be blocking by turn 2.

This leads me to believe a cc list is the answer. 9 spiders with 12 wraiths and scarabs, if the enemy reserves, will assault them as soon as they come on. In addition, the scarabs will be huge on turn 3. Finally, cc lists dont care about night fight.

It depends on what it's going up against.

I just had a tremor list OBLITERATE a ravenwing bike list.

Dawn of war... he was forced to move most of his units onto the board because he didn't declare them in reserves... He lost 7 bikes and immobilized 2 speeders t1. From there it just went down hill for him.

So yes, it's viable vs certain lists, things that really come to mind are bike-based lists like ravenwing, and most Ork tactics since they revolve around horde and mech/bikes for the most part.

In the general case however, I don't think it would be a good idea to bring it to a tournament or anything like that. It's too fragile when it's going up against something it's not effective against (stationary armies, armies with lots of invuln saves, etc).

DevianID wrote:The way I see it, orikan and the stormlord with a ctan and 2 tremor staves force your opponent to either full reserve to dodge lightning and orikan, or fully deploy and weather the storm so to speak. Thus, the rest of the list should try and take advantage of this.

Necrons cant really block board edges, as the scythe is a tall model like the vendetta so there will most likely be areas you can drive under. No other necron vehicle is fast enough to be blocking by turn 2.

This leads me to believe a cc list is the answer. 9 spiders with 12 wraiths and scarabs, if the enemy reserves, will assault them as soon as they come on. In addition, the scarabs will be huge on turn 3. Finally, cc lists dont care about night fight.

IMO - and again, I could be wrong here but:

If I'm making a CC list, I'm not wasting my points on a C'Tan with WW and 6 Tremorstaves. I'm just going to use a wraithwing.
Blocking board edges is weak sauce, hard to pull off, and a miscalculation will let the enemy assault your entire line.
The point of a quake list is to keep your enemy away from you, reduce their tactical options by cutting mobility.
I'm not really feeling Imotekh at all in this build, we're already overpaying for a C'tan; buying a 225 HQ that has negligible benefit isn't a sound decision.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

WanderingFox wrote:It depends on what it's going up against.

I just had a tremor list OBLITERATE a ravenwing bike list.

Dawn of war... he was forced to move most of his units onto the board because he didn't declare them in reserves... He lost 7 bikes and immobilized 2 speeders t1. From there it just went down hill for him.

So yes, it's viable vs certain lists, things that really come to mind are bike-based lists like ravenwing, and most Ork tactics since they revolve around horde and mech/bikes for the most part.

In the general case however, I don't think it would be a good idea to bring it to a tournament or anything like that. It's too fragile when it's going up against something it's not effective against (stationary armies, armies with lots of invuln saves, etc).

The objective is to build a list that works well Against a stationary army, and use Quake to turn an opponent that you face into a stationary army.

Well i played my version, and found it to be very effective. Granted I was playing against a deathwing all termies list and 1000 points of howling banshees, I still felt it worked. Even with a ++3 and fnp, termies are still at risk to be killed by dangerous terrain. In the end, I fielded 2 squads of stationary immortals and 2 ghost arks. The arks had a lance each, and the stationary guys had the tremorstaffs. I found the staves to be worthless against vehicles, and not worth the shooting. They worked well against infantry however even as plain shooting weapons.

One important thing to remember is that enemies have to take difficult (and thus dangerous) terrain when assaulting. This means that you can pretty much count on the enemy failing to assault you from 12 inches, and if they even try to move (if they take the difficult test) they still have to take dangerous terrain. I spent the last 2 turns of the game backpeddling away a squad of terminators with my formerly stationary immortals, whittling them down to 2 models. My immortals then assaulted them with FC and killed both.

The list works if you can prioritize well. Transports are the first to go, then sniffer wiffles and poison, then AT. Then you can focus (around 3rd turn) on infantry, which is easy.

If I'm making a CC list, I'm not wasting my points on a C'Tan with WW and 6 Tremorstaves. I'm just going to use a wraithwing.
Blocking board edges is weak sauce, hard to pull off, and a miscalculation will let the enemy assault your entire line.
The point of a quake list is to keep your enemy away from you, reduce their tactical options by cutting mobility.
I'm not really feeling Imotekh at all in this build, we're already overpaying for a C'tan; buying a 225 HQ that has negligible benefit isn't a sound decision.

Well Junk, think about what you want writhing worldscape to do. You want to seal enemy movement, keep the enemy out of terrain, and punish turn 1 moves. Basicly, you are trying to control where and how the other player can play the game. Imotekh, with nightfighting and out of turn lightning that hits any unit on the table goes with this theme. Assault, with the nature of locking the enemies shooting, and the additional leadership penalties for losing a combat, also go with this theme.

So in the end, Imotekh seals their shooting. Orikan and the ctan with a few tremor crypteks seal their movement. 12 wraiths, 9 spyders, and 10 scarabs grown to 37 strong seal their assault. The crons have the tools to lock up the entire enemy force in every phase of the enemies own turn.

@junk I get the idea... It's just it's not points viable outside of like 2k+ Just to get it to be effective you need to spend over 200pts on the c'tan and another 180-something for orikan. And then at least another 50-100 more points on the crypteks... Leaving you with less than 1k points to actually put into real damaging units.

I personally just see taking wraith-wing or s8+ spam as being more cost effective. /shrug

At 2000, I was considering running

Squad 1
Imotekh the Stormlord
Orikan the Diviner
Harbinger of Eternity + Chronometron
Harbinger of Despair + Veil of Darkness
5 Lords 5x Warscythe, 5x Mindshackle Scarabs 1x Resurrection Orb
Ghost Ark (hop on 1st turn)

Squads 2 + 3
5 Warriors + Ghost Ark
Harbinger of Transmogrification

Squads 4
5 Warriors
Harbinger of Transmogrification

C'Tan Shard + Writhing Worldscape + Grand Illusion

Annihilation Barge

2x 5 Tomb Blades w/ Gauss Blasters


For the tremor-necrons to work, I agree that you need a threat that capitalizes on the opponent's lack of mobility. I do like the Doomsday Arks, but I decided to go a different route, RC Deathstar

The ICs plus most of the RC hop into an empty Ghost ark Turn 1, Squads 2, 3, Annihilation Barge, and the Tomb Blades can move up quickly or slowly to best snipe at ~21" away. Squad 4 and the C'tan would hang back for objectives missions, or advance slowly for annihilation. Turn 2, the RC Deathstar really shines, you can move the GA 12", open topped disembark anywhere around it 2" and still assualt 6". If you really need to squeeze a bit of range for a multi-assault, you can run also and even use the chronometron to reroll the run distance and only lose a little bit of shooting. The more they spread out, the more they have trouble converging on the RC. They closer they bunch, the more multi-assault options you have.

Ghost arks and Tomb blades bring a lot of mobile gauss weaponry to bear on the opponent. This (plus the tremor-staves + WW) is a strong suppression tactic.

Orikan + WW = 1/3 chance (not 1/6) of a no armor, no cover wound per model on deep strike turn 1. There was a lot of debate about this before the new necron faq, but I thought it was resolved now.

This list has some serious drawbacks, some of which are common to all tremor-necron lists, some are more specific.
1) Ordnance Barrage options are very strong against Necrons in general, and tremor-crons more than most. They laugh at your nightfighting and shoot you anyways. Manticores in particular, but many of the IG artillery options are bad news for this type of tactic.
2) Since I chose to use Imotekh + chronometron rather than HoDs and SPs for night fighting, I lose some shootyness. I must now worry about rolling to see to shoot things with my harassing squads.

I would not say this version is the best, but I do hope that I have given you a thing or three to think about. Will keep checking in, I do like this tremor-cron idea in general and think there is probably more than one way to pull it off. I don't think it will ever be as competitive as wraithwing or AV 13 spam, but in certainly has some very strong match-ups (DoW going 1st, vs any drop army, vs most light transport armies, vs most horde armies, etc)

One thing that really impresses me about the Necron codex... it relies on synergy.
If you simply take the best-in-slot choices you get an army that can win, but you don't get one that can dominate. It's a very flexible book, and we aren't likely to have only 2 dominant builds (like most codices). There will literally be 2-3 builds FOR EACH META.

Wraithwing (MTO) is really strong against a mech-heavy meta. Quake is going to dominate against an infantry-heavy meta. Phalanx Necrons will make a comeback at some point. Who knows what's going to happen with 6th edition around the corner, but there will be a Necron build to take advantage of it. Where ever there is a dominant army, those players are going to fear Necrons.

MTO and Wraith seem to be able to run lean... even down to 1500 points without too seriously reducing its effectiveness. Quake doesn't seem to be able to run that lean... 1850 is a struggle, and 2k seems to be where it has all the tools it needs.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to give up on it though. Killing your opponent on his turn is so powerful... maybe 6th will make games significantly faster and we'll be playing standard tournaments at 2250 or 2500. At that point, I have a feeling that Quake will have more staying power than WW or MTO (to explain, I think that the power of WW or MTO will be diluted by expanding the points that high, and the opponent will have more tools to counter it). Quake truly benefits from your opponent having more units on the board!




Of course, I could be completely wrong! I usually am.

Don't forget Scythe Spam...

Config2 wrote:
One important thing to remember is that enemies have to take difficult (and thus dangerous) terrain when assaulting.

I believe that Quake's effect is limited to your opponent's movement phase, but otherwise, great input!


Deviant: Interesting point. Using only short range shooting is walking a razor sharp line with the measurement game:
So I'm clear on this, you're saying that Quake/Worldscape is a worthwhile addition to a Necron CC army? I'd like to see your 2000. I'm open to it.


Fox: You're against Tremorcrons entirely, then? There's no way in your opinion for it to compete at the top levels?
- See, here's the philosophical element to it that leads me to believe that somewhere in this jigsaw puzzle there is a killer list - Dangerous Terrain Tests are Indiscriminate; they kill terminators and guardsmen alike, they cripple ork mobs and crash eldar skimmers; Necrons are the only army that can feth with rules of the game - Night fighting? Yeah we turn it on and off like a light switch. Teleportation, All day, pretty much any unit we've got; re-rolls, tesla, twin link everything... Is that unit dead? nope, its back. Out of all the wacky stuff necrons can do, Writhing Worldscape is probably the most comprehensive game changer there is; and if we can't figure out a way to exploit that, we might as well all just go play checkers.


Mortal: The Royal Deathstar - interesting, with Imotekh and Orikan to boot, 1 barge, and 2x5 Tomb Blades, 3 minimum scoring units and 2 ghost arks. I'll have to double check the codex, I'm not sure if your royal court unit distribution is legal, I'll get back to you on that, could be fine though. I see some difficulty with target saturation and vehicle disabling. The Deathstar wants to be in CC, the warriors and tomb blades dont. I think the CC Court works better under Nemesor's guidance; but I'm not on top of that one either... We'll have to do a mini one of these to talk about the Necron Deathstar tactic.

Anpu: I agree that it's tough to nail down Necrons, It's kind of why I've been so into the tactica. I'm still in love with my wraithwing, and it has yet to let me down. I'm also a big fan of scythespam. Scarab Farm is very impressive. Just about the only build I don't love is the Warrior Wall. Still trying to get a JumpCron list together as well - a build that takes advantage of Double D.Lords without spamming wraiths (using destroyers and praetorians), but that one is even harder than Tremorcron.


One of the things I'd like to throw in to invigorate this discussion is, If the c'tan were a little bit cheaper, I might throw Worldscape into all my necron games, if for no other reason than to prevent my opponents from taking advantage of area terrain. Most games have 25% of the map covered in terrain. Again, even without Orikan or Quake, that's 25% of the map that has just become a death sentance for 1/6 of your enemy's infantry, and a potential burial ground for his vehicles.

junk wrote:
Mortal: The Royal Deathstar - interesting, with Imotekh and Orikan to boot, 1 barge, and 2x5 Tomb Blades, 3 minimum scoring units and 2 ghost arks. I'll have to double check the codex, I'm not sure if your royal court unit distribution is legal, I'll get back to you on that, could be fine though. I see some difficulty with target saturation and vehicle disabling. The Deathstar wants to be in CC, the warriors and tomb blades dont. I think the CC Court works better under Nemesor's guidance; but I'm not on top of that one either... We'll have to do a mini one of these to talk about the Necron Deathstar tactic.

10 man RC, 5 Lords, 5 crypteks
3 crypteks split off, one to each warrior unit
2 ICs join remaining 7 man RC

Imotekh is a compromise. I wanted Orikan, that means only one RC. I wanted a CC deathstar, that means no points for doomsday arks as a threat. I needed night fighting to have a chance against gunline. Hence Imotekh. I think he and Orikan have complimentary stat-lines and make for a nice challenge to my opponent. Two 3++ models with up to 7 wounds between them to soak, a phylactery, a res orb, 5 MSS, 5 WS, a relentless trans-dimensional beamer, a destroyer staff, staff of tomorrow, gauntlet of fire, veil of darkness, abysal staff, and one reroll a phase from chronometron ... It's a pretty tough nut to crack, but it ought to be at its points cost. I thought the list I posted was the more balenced approach. I have a version that drops the AB and TBs for a 6-wraith squad