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Tarrasq wrote:Is the list for the battle report set in stone jy2? I can't really tell if you played the game already with the mixed tenses there.

Personally, instead of the monolith, I'd take two A. Barges (for 90 points they're a steal) and upgrade a squad of warriors to Tesla Immortals. This ought to beef up the anti-horde a bit, and you already have 6 blast weapons with the Tomb Blades and the tremorteks. Also wasn't the point of taking the monolith (correct me if I'm wrong) mostly as mobile cover for the C'Tan? You don't really need that in this matchup.

I like stalkers in that match up as well, but the only thing to cut is troops and you need lots of troops for the combined objective scenario.

In general, I find that the Tremor-crons have a huge advantage in objective missions. Controlling troop movement in the latter turns is very powerful.

Also has anyone attempted deep striking scythes? I just noticed they had that rule, and it might be nice to have Doom Scythes come in later in the game after you've taken care of some of you opponent's long range weaponry. I don't think it would necessarily help night scythes that much.

Yeah, I actually played the game already. I won't have time to write the report tomorrow as I will be out most of the day, so I will probably be mainly working on it on Sunday.

Unfortunately, I don't have my AB models currently. I've commissioned someone to work on them and they won't be done until next month.

Originally, the mono was supposed to be mobile cover for the c'tan, but I'm finding that to be under-utilizing the monolith. This time, I'm going to play the monolith much more aggressively, meaning I'm most likely going to deepstrike it (unless my opponent has a lot of meltas).

I've played Doom scythes before but I never tried to deepstrike them. I'd rather have them start off on the table to present as many threats to my opponent as possible. So far, I am undefeated with them while playing very aggressively.

junk wrote:Jy2, as usual, looking forward to that rep. One of these days I'd love to see you slinging some immortals around.

I have used them before, just not in my tremorcron lists. I've used them in my Nemesor/Obyron veil-tek footcron lists against Ravenguards and mech BA.

Okay, so Tremorcrons Vs. Pedropods @ 2250
I just got off a plane and met up with one of my regular opponents for a quick game.
He had a 2250 on hand that he wanted to play around with, just a fun game, no rules lawyering or waac bs.
I threw together a 2,250 Tremorcron list without thinking to deeply about it, just wanted to get the mechanism on the table.
We laid terrain, 6 sizable area pieces, 3 ruins 3 forests.

My list -
Orikan
Phaeron with Phase shifter, sweave, mss
4 tremorstaves and a pulsetek
10 Gauss immortals
4x5 Tesla immortals
2x monoliths
C'tan with WW and Gaze
5 Stealth tomb blades with gauss
5 Tesla Tomb Blades
10 Sacarbs
3 Spyders

His list (90% sure)
Kantor
Librarian (avenger, Null zone)
2x10 Tac squads, DP, PFist Sgt, Missile/Flamer
25 Sternguard, 3 drop pods, lots of melta
5x Devastator squad with missiles
1x Thunderfire Cannon, Drop pod
Whirlwind
2x3 Scout Bikes, Powerfist, Combi Melta, cluster mines

Bay Area Open style mission type
Spearhead Deployment
Marines win initiative

Deployment
He bolsters a large ruin and uses it to house his devasators, thunderfire, half a tac squad, his C&C objective, and his whirlwind.
His drop pod assault consists of 4 full pods, a 10 stern with librarian, a 10 tac, and 2x5 sternpods

I Castled up in my deployment zone, with 2x monoliths in deep strike reserve, 1x10 gaussimmortals w/ phaeron & Orikan as close to center as possible, C'tan and mini scarab farm castled in a ruin - my opponent castled to some degree, but since his army was based out of drop pods, he brought the hammer down first turn for an alpha strike, braving the double dangerous terrain to try and eliminate my c'tan and spyders immediately.

During his deep strike:
10 out of 35 sternguard/Tac marines failed their tests and die, including 5! sternguard in his librarian's pod. Insanity. One pod scatters off the table, and I place it behind his deployment castle, in the woods. I want him to be stuck on his side.
During his movement phase, 2 of 6 scout bikers died from writhing worldscape/orikan.
(Looks like Orikan was justified)

Based on this alone, I am happy with orikan/WW.

During his shooting phase he managed to take out 6 scarab bases, 1 spyder, and my c'tan, 1 tomb blade, and 1 immortal in orikan's squad.
I was suddenly crestfallen. Without writhing worldscape, I have 4 tremorstaves just... being there.

He assaulted my big immortals orikan squad with his remaining scout bikers but combat went my way, I lose 2 immortals he loses 2 bikers, but my immortals get back up.

On my turn 1, The dice loved me and I managed to kill another 14 sternguard/marines and the librarian through a combination of tesla fire, tomb blade twin linked gauss, and scarab assaults; orikan's squad finished off those scout bikers in CC; spyders got locked in combat after some gak rolling.

His Turn 2:
I remember to solar pulse, His shooting is ineffective as a result.
He gets 2 more drop pods in (empty)
He finishes off my spyders in CC, but fails to kill my last scarab base
He assaults one of my tomb blade squads with the remnants of his tac squad... they will remain locked for the remainder of the game.

My turn 2:
My monolith comes down, so does a reserved immortal squad.
I shoot and kill everything in my deployment zone except for the two squads locked in assault
His squads in my deployment zone remain locked in assault (1 scarab base, and 4 remaining tomb blades)
I have crazy good luck in these assaults so far, combats remain locked, no casualties.
My monolith is close to his deployment zone but fails to do anything cool.
Orikan wolfs out, he and the olord split off from the big immortal squad, and two drop pods die

Right now: I have 8 kill points to his 3, and I control all but his capture and control objective. My opponent is debating conceding.

His turn 3
Shakes my monolith, kills an immortal, knocks down two tomb blades, they get back up. Nothing else in the shooting phase.
He assaults a small immortal unit with kantor and a 5 man tac squad, indecisive, but locked for now.

My turn 3
Monolith 2 still absent.
Last immortal squad comes in.
Orikan and the lord head back over and rejoin the big immortal squad.
I activate the gate to new jersey and suck in one marine.
Shooting from the monolith into his deployment zone shakes his whirlwind, we trade a few models, I lose Kantors assault, but my cryptek gets back up.
He consolidates towards my big immortal squad, looking for a repeat.

His turn 4
Kills off a squad of tomb blades with his damned thunderfire cannon.
His Kantor squad assaults my phaeron + Orikan + immortals squad, wins assault but I pass leadership, allowing me to pile in with orikan and overlord, and my opponent, so frustrated by his lack of ability to kill necrons, concedes. We consider continuing the game, but at the end of his turn it's clear there's no way he can win. I control my deployment zone, the center of the board, and I'm pushing in on his deployment zone with a monolith he can't really hurt, and a second one is still in reserve. My troop squads are mainly in tact, and I'm poised to clear his castle.

Post game....

Well, Writhing worldscape did all its damage in the first round and then the c'tan died. My dice were so insanely hot that this wasn't even a fair game. Pretty much, I won or tied every assault, murdered everything I shot at, and my opponent quit. Not the best test of the theory, but that first turn was insane. He lost 350ish points of units to writhing worldscape and orikan right off the bat. He devoted his whole alpha strike to taking out my scarab farm, and in the end it backfired as I was able to eliminate his entire offense in a couple rounds of tesla fire and good necron punches.

With all that melta out of the way, I was free to use my monolith with impunity, and my troops were able to deny him targets. The tremorstaves made for decent blast markers in a pinch, but I was dissapointed that I didn't get more use out of the c'tan... I would have loved to see gaze working.

Ok, my battle report is done:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/432508.page


@junk:

Amazing results. I gotta admit, tremorcrons can be spectacular when its working correctly. Even without Orikan in my "non-optimized" tremorcron list, I was able to do better than I did in my 1st 2 games with them. Of course, I did play my 1st 2 games wrong.

It's good to see these positive results. A few more of these and I may actually think that tremorcrons may be a viable competitive build.

What about guardsman army with lots of psycher battle squads spread out across the field ?

Psyker battle squads are ridiculously good and just ruin necron. The only real solution is to make them priority #1, as far as I can reason.

junk wrote:Psyker battle squads are ridiculously good and just ruin necron. The only real solution is to make them priority #1, as far as I can reason.

Makes me wish that C'tan had an anti-psycher abilities like the old Pariahs.

Anpu-adom wrote:

junk wrote:Psyker battle squads are ridiculously good and just ruin necron. The only real solution is to make them priority #1, as far as I can reason.

Makes me wish that C'tan had an anti-psycher abilities like the old Pariahs.

Makes me with Necrons had any kind of anti-psyker abilities. Especially with the psychic Old Ones / Eldar being their ancient enemies.

...don't you "Gloom Prism!" me, 3" range is trash.

I think TremorCronz has a lot of potential - it seriously messes with tread mech lists plus you can incorporate other potent elements such as Scarab Farm, Wraithwing, Stormlord and TeslaCronz.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

junk wrote:Psyker battle squads are ridiculously good and just ruin necron. The only real solution is to make them priority #1, as far as I can reason.

Makes me wish that C'tan had an anti-psycher abilities like the old Pariahs.

Makes me with Necrons had any kind of anti-psyker abilities. Especially with the psychic Old Ones / Eldar being their ancient enemies.

...don't you "Gloom Prism!" me, 3" range is trash.

I the Tradeoff, is we get Harbinger items, that don't require psychic tests. Kind of like the Homunculus stuff for Dark Eldar.

While 3 psyker battle squads can hurt necrons, scarabs/spyders/wraiths/praetorians all dont care. Whats more, vehicle units dont care, and nightfighting can also give the battle squads some issues.

So yeah, if you are running 20 man warrior bricks, manticore + psyker battle squad = sad necrons. But other than that, most dangerous necron units shrug off the weaken resolve.

Junk, I dont think you got crazy lucky with Orikan. Those marines have a 33% chance to die when disembarking from a deepstrike on turn 1 thanks to Orikan. Your opponent should have known the risks and balanced losing lots of marines for the chance to maybe kill a few dangerous units. Me, I would have done things differently--and I bet your opponent will as well next time he plays versus that list.

Tremor-crons do not work well vs Dark eldar who gets all of his reserve rolls on turn 2 and they come through his webway...

Lost init vs the dark eldar, he went first, I could hardly land a damn shot with all of his saves (also my first time vs dark eldar so I didn't really know what to prioritize).

When all of his hellions and beast masters popped out, it was basically GG by the end of turn 2, i conceded end of turn 3 as just my barge was left and 1x wraith.

Dark eldar are tricky foes I tell you!

Also, I hate kill point games. I played Grey Knights last night, was down to 2x units of warriors, 1x unit of immortals, my c'tan, and my overlord who LITERALLY legged it up a 3 story building to kill the vindicare assassin who popped his ride to destroy him in cc with his warscythe... and the GK player had a storm raven (with destroyed melta) and ONE terminator left and he won, 10 kp vs 7... honestly end of turn 5 I unloaded 10 gauss shots + a direct hit tremor staff, landed 7 of those shots, wounded 4 from the gauss, 1 from the tremor and that damn 2+ save saved his butt. Then the eldritch lance hit the storm raven, penned, and he made his 4+ flat out save... was so angry that I had more guys on the board, more points on the board, and he still won

Cryage, necrons match up favorably versus dark eldar, depending on your build.

DE Beasts, for example, get lots of attacks and lots of wounds, but if you saturate them with s6, you can instant kill their flocks. So several units of wraiths can get the job done in 1 turn. On the other hand, if you dont overcommit to the beasts, then your wounds fall on useless invulnerable models, the high init rips you to shreds, and you give him extra movement and pain tokens for the beastmasters.

As for helions, they hate getting charged by scarabs. But with Baron, they love initiating the charge on scarabs. So it is a cat and mouse situation, to be resolved by outplaying your opponent.

Baron does give his unit skilled rider, making the helions harder to put down with Orikan+WW, but failing on a 1-2 still thins the horde despite the reroll.

While I realize the 6th Edition rules are not finalized yet, what does everyone thing of the change to Difficult Terrain? (can't Run (like Marching in Fantasy, move double your movement)/Flat Out through it)

Think it'll neuter this army concept, or will it not matter much due to most of the point being the dangerous terrain rather than the difficult part?

In my opinion, its all about the dangerous terrain. The average roll of difficult terrain currently is about 4.5 inches, and over half the time you get 5 or 6 inches. So without writhing worldscape you shave 1.5 inches off a squads movement, unless they were already in terrain. It doesn't slow run or assault moves either currently.

Hitting vehicles has some benefit with just tremor, same with bikes, thanks to the dangerous component, but it won't really reduce their threat radius.

I just played two back to back games, one against space wolves (a kopach clone list) and once against a blood angels mech list featuring the sanguinor. Both games ended in draw, and other than a couple exciting exchanges, the games pretty much were the slow and painful affairs you'd expect.

I'll say this; the damn wolves have the best tools to take apart a necron list. Blast Markers for the scarabs, jaws absolutely massacres us, ample melta, and all the CC attacks you could hope for. I still managed to pull off a draw, but it was only because my opponent made a terrible mistake and let me surround Njal's rhino with tomb blades and wreck it. That evened out the fact that he jaws'd all my wraiths and a few other great units. It was an uphill battle even with Njal out of the picture.

The blood angels game, the necrons held their ground, having an ever living cryptek in every squad of immortals meant that even after a squad wipe I could still get up and do business. The sanguinor is a murderous bastard, which actually worked out in my favor, as he never stayed locked in assault, so I could shoot his unit every round.

I wasn't really keeping notes, but here's what I learned: I love doom scythes and monoliths, I'm on the fence about death marks, and a 100 point squad of gauss tomb blades is an insanely useful investment. In both games I ran 10 scarabs, 6 wraiths, and 5 tomb blades; and in both games the tomb blades were the all stars. The wraiths got eaten by jaws against the space wolves, and murdered by the sanguinor's squad against blood angels. The scarabs did what scarabs do, so whatever, but the tomb blades were so freaking useful I couldn't believe it.

Both games, writhing worldscape without orikan performed as expected, not a game changer or a win condition, just a support function worth the points you spend on it with the occasional chance of having a useful strategic result thrown in. I didn't run orikan in either game, and It probably would have made a significant difference.

junk wrote:
I wasn't really keeping notes, but here's what I learned: I love doom scythes and monoliths, I'm on the fence about death marks, and a 100 point squad of gauss tomb blades is an insanely useful investment. In both games I ran 10 scarabs, 6 wraiths, and 5 tomb blades; and in both games the tomb blades were the all stars. The wraiths got eaten by jaws against the space wolves, and murdered by the sanguinor's squad against blood angels. The scarabs did what scarabs do, so whatever, but the tomb blades were so freaking useful I couldn't believe it.

Wraiths are immune to Jaws. Jaws doesn't affect jump infantry....though it does affect jetbikes!

Tell me more about the tomb blades. Maybe I am equipping them wrong with shadowlooms and particle beamers?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:Junk, I dont think you got crazy lucky with Orikan. Those marines have a 33% chance to die when disembarking from a deepstrike on turn 1 thanks to Orikan. Your opponent should have known the risks and balanced losing lots of marines for the chance to maybe kill a few dangerous units. Me, I would have done things differently--and I bet your opponent will as well next time he plays versus that list.

I'm not so sure about the 33%. The vehicle treats difficult as dangerous, but not the disembarking passengers (unless if they were actually disembarking onto dangerous terrain). It's just like if a transport moves through difficult terrain and the passengers then disembark. Only the transport would take dangerous terrain tests, not the passengers. In the case of Orikan, the drop pod would have a 1/3 chance to immobilize itself, but the passengers only a 1/6 of dying.

Deepstriking units treat difficult as dangerous already. Despite also having disembarked from a drop pod, the embarked squad deepstruck still right?

DevianID wrote:Deepstriking units treat difficult as dangerous already. Despite also having disembarked from a drop pod, the embarked squad deepstruck still right?

brb pg 95
"Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."
Are they currently arriving via deep strike? Or are they disembarking from a vehicle that has already performed deep strike?
Personally, I'd say latter.

Jy2, Tomb Blades: In the first game I was able to get them into position surrounding a rhino for a free unit wipe; in the second game, I used them late game as a clean up crew to finish off weakened squads; both times Gauss, only because I run Tesla immortals as my troops, and I threw them in for a cheap source of gauss fire. 100 points, tough to beat that value.

This is probably a YMDC question but what takes precedence, the Jetbike rule that Jetbikes ignore terrain unless starting or stoppping in it or the trubo boost rule that states you cannot move through difficult terrain while turbo boosting. Is that stipulation only for normal bikes or does it cover jetbikes as well (I use to think it covered jetbikes as well, but reaver jetbikes can obviously move over troops while turbo boosting, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they wouldn't be able to move over difficult terrain as well).

i used 3 tremcryps in a WW list vs nids and it kept his hive guard out of range and allowed me to slow down his horms. Plus chipping away 1/6 of the unit over 4 turns basically nuetered his assault unit. 15 horms turned into 6 by the time they got to my lines. Same as his massed stealers. 2x15 stealers lost about 7 each. This allowed my wraiths/scarabs to really clean up the survivors.

When units got down to 1 or 2 models, my oppo didnt want to move just in case he lost the scoring unit.

I am very happy with the trems and found they did more for the game than if they were my usual lancers.

Tesla destructor an ork killer? Works perfectly against mech de. No fnp, multiple hits negate ff benefit. If the ork player gets cover the losses hurt less than de.

ShadarLogoth wrote:This is probably a YMDC question but what takes precedence, the Jetbike rule that Jetbikes ignore terrain unless starting or stoppping in it or the trubo boost rule that states you cannot move through difficult terrain while turbo boosting. Is that stipulation only for normal bikes or does it cover jetbikes as well (I use to think it covered jetbikes as well, but reaver jetbikes can obviously move over troops while turbo boosting, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they wouldn't be able to move over difficult terrain as well).

Depends if they end their move in the terrain or not. They can always turbo-boost over it completely, but if they land in the terrain, then they are going through it and must follow the rules and restrictions for the turbo-boost USR.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:Deepstriking units treat difficult as dangerous already. Despite also having disembarked from a drop pod, the embarked squad deepstruck still right?

Luide wrote:

DevianID wrote:Deepstriking units treat difficult as dangerous already. Despite also having disembarked from a drop pod, the embarked squad deepstruck still right?

brb pg 95
"Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."
Are they currently arriving via deep strike? Or are they disembarking from a vehicle that has already performed deep strike?
Personally, I'd say latter.

Ok, found the answer in the BRB FAQ. Thanks, DevianID.

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has
arrived by Deep Stike that turn also count as having
arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)
A: Yes.

ShadarLogoth wrote:This is probably a YMDC question but what takes precedence, the Jetbike rule that Jetbikes ignore terrain unless starting or stoppping in it or the trubo boost rule that states you cannot move through difficult terrain while turbo boosting. Is that stipulation only for normal bikes or does it cover jetbikes as well (I use to think it covered jetbikes as well, but reaver jetbikes can obviously move over troops while turbo boosting, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they wouldn't be able to move over difficult terrain as well).

I'll add to what Jy2 said, it's similar to embarking or disembarking from a vehicle. If the vehicle has gone more than combat speed or will go more than combat speed then the unit cannot embark/disembark from the vehicle. It's similar, because the owner of the unit has to decide and make that decision known before he finishes moving the unit.

It's also important to know that jump infantry can walk through terrain as normal infantry rather than take a dangerous terrain test.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Necrons FTW!!!

3 GT's (Grand tournaments with 5-6 games each). 3 necron winners so far.

First, we have Alex Fennel at TempleCon GT with a scarab-farm list:

Overlord: mind shackle, weave, scythe, phase shifter
Command Barge

Overlord: mind shackle, weave, scythe, phase shifter
Command Barge

Court 1: Despair cryptek with nightmare shroud and veil of darkness
Storm Cryptek with lightning field
Destruction Cryptek with solar pulse

Court 2: Despair cryptek with nightmare shroud and veil of darkness
Storm Cryptek with lightning field
Destruction Cryptek with solar pulse

10 Immortals w Tesla
10 Immortals w Tesla
10 Immortals w Tesla
5 Immortals w Gauss

3 Scarabs
3 Scarabs
3 Scarabs

3 Spyders 1 prism
3 Spyders 1 prism
2 Spyders 1 repair arm


----------------------------------------------------


Then we have Eric Hoeger with Wraithwing at St. Valentine's Day Massacre:

Overlord: Warscythe, Command Barge 180
Overlord: Warscythe, Command Barge 180
Royal Court: Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse, Harbinger of Destruction, Harbinger of Despair with Veil of Darkness 150
Royal Court: Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse, Harbinger of Destruction, 90
7 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 119
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
5 Immortals: Tesla Carbines 85
6 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil, 1xParticle Caster 245
6 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil, 1xParticle Caster 245
5 Wraiths: 3xWhip Coil 205
Annihilation Barge: Telsa Cannon 90
Annihilation Barge: Tesla Cannon 90


----------------------------------------------------


And most recently, we have Norbu at the Indy Open with Tremorcrons!!!

Orikan

Imotekh

2 x tremor crypteks
1 x Chronomotron tek
1 combat lord w/ orb

7 lychguard w/ sheilds
1 Ctan (wrything worldscape, lord of fire)

5 x warriors
5 x warriors
5 x Immortals

5 scarabs
4 scarabs
5 wraiths (coils, pistol)

3 spyders
3 spyders


Good job to all, and way to represent!

Lychguard? That's a pretty unorthodox include but it makes sense. Super durable, spread out in front of the mini farm to give them stealth 3+ saves on the go.

Wow... just.... wow.
I don't know if I'm more impressed that it's all necrons or if it's 3 separate builds.

I suspect that there will be a winning tesla destructor list in the future as well.

Tremor quaking Cronz won the Indy GT this weekend!

Anpu-adom wrote:Wow... just.... wow.
I don't know if I'm more impressed that it's all necrons or if it's 3 separate builds.

I think right now what's happening is that necrons are catching people off guard. Of course it helps that the 3 winning builds are being commandeered by very good players, but people just don't think necrons are very good at the moment.

Here you've got a supposedly "shooty" army that isn't very shooty at all. It's not great in assault and it's basically a foot-list in a meta where suppodedly, mech is king. How the heck are necrons doing so well?

What people don't realize is the resiliency of the necrons and, more importantly, how well they synergize together. The combos found in the army is what is letting them keep up with guards, space wolves, grey knights and many of the other good tournament builds.

Anpu-adom wrote:
I suspect that there will be a winning tesla destructor list in the future as well.

That's another very strong build that we have yet to see, though I do have some reservations about them. I think they are good, but I'm not sure they have the resiliency to fight shooty MSU-mech.