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junk wrote:I stand by avoiding immotekh in a shooting list, and avoiding destroyers in an assault list, as out best assault units are fa choices.


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Garukadon, I'd love to see the best 2 out of 3 results in that same match up; daemons are a tough match up because they're a decentralized assault army that fights from reserve. If you had your missing points, ÿöú probably would have had a better result... Thanks for the input!

No problem Junk. I too would like to get that rematch in. I literally slapped that list together in 5 minutes during the game. I just started down scaling from a 2000pt list I had been working on, plus went off the models I had. I have my own table at home, so I need to remember that proxying at my house is okay

I really do think the game was a tad closer than I had anticipated, as he was down to just 3 models- the Lord of Change, the Blood Thirster and the lone Blood Letter. The rez orbs and mind shackle scarabs I thought would've made a fantastic difference. Also his losing the Blood Crushers due to deep strike mishap was lucky for me and im glad I didnt have those bearing down on me as well.

I was really concentrating on trying to get that Lord of Change out of there fast and concentrated about 85% of my firepower towards him that 1st turn, plus I thought the charge with the scarabs would finish him off too. In hindsight I should of concentrated on the Blood Letter units 1st, as they did more damage throughout the whole game.

Overlords on foot with units might be a better way to go than command barges. Being able to afford mind shackle scarabs along with his warscythe would've helped out units in CC tremendously. Also a rez orb would've increased survivibilty of units as well.

Once I revise the list, ill post it- the 1500pt and 2000pt version.

Garukadon wrote:So superbowl weekend I ran a 1500pt "tremorcrons list" against Daemons and got tabled. It went 6 turns, was annihilation and dawn of war setup.

I used:
Orikan, Regular OverLord with warscythe on command barge for my hq's. ( Orikan alone and waiting to power up, Overlord to take out tanks and characters )

C'tan with writhing worldscape and grand illusion for my elite's.

3 units of Immortals with tesla carbines, 5 man strong each. ( this was for anti-infantry )

3 Crypteks with Tremorstaves that went to each of the 3 Immortal units. ( to synergise with writhing worldscape )

2 Crypteks with Eldritch Lances just being the Royal court alone. ( to blast tanks and special characters )

2 Heavy Destroyers. ( to blast tanks and characters )

5 Scarab bases. ( to tar pit, erode tanks, distract my opponent )

1 Doom Ark. ( to blast infantry as the slowly made there way to its corner.

Setting up I put the Doom ark in one corner and surround it with the rest of the army.

My opponent had a daemon prince, the lord of change, a bloodthirster, 2 blood letter units and a blood crusher unit.

The only thing that was destroyed from deep striking was the blood crushers. The Big-uns came in 1st. He lost a few wounds to his blood letters due to dangerous terrain tests and all of his big stuff just had amazing armour saves the whole game.

As I said I got tabled, but I did manage to kill one blood letter unit, one daemon prince, dropped one blood letter unit down to one, put 1 wound on the lord of change, and put 1 or 2 wounds on his bloodthirster.

Doom Ark did okay, the immortals with tesla dissapointed, so did the eldritch lances ( this may be due to the insane armour saves he was making ). The scarabs tar-pitted the lord for a good portion of the game. The C'tan fell to blood letters and the blood thirster, but he took out some blood letters. Orikan powered up one turn and lost it the next : (
so when I charged him he did okay. His re-roll does come in handy.

The command barge did jack and so did the overlord. Both smashed by the blood thirster.

In hindsight, I thought this list could have been saved had I took the time to use the rest of my points ( I used like 1390 points and then rushed to play ) for lords with res-orbs and mind shackle scarabs. I think ill take out Orikan to have 2 royal courts, take another reg. Overlord.

I didnt use Wraiths because I didnt have the models, but ill just proxy next time and test out the revised list. Hope this info helps.

Don't get too down about the loss... Most Necron lists are going to have some serious problems versus any reserve army that is strong in melee. On top of this playing against daemons negated your anti armor units. Luckily daemons aren't all that popular these days. I would try your army versus some more conventional lists like IG Leafblower or Razorspam.

hey there I just finished a tournament using my tremorstave list and boy oh boy do I have a lot of feedback on such lists for you!

First off here was the list I ended up using.

HQ Imotekh the Stormlord = 225
HQ Orikan the diviner = 165

Troop Warrior x10 = 130
(Royal court) Cryptek = 25+5 = 30
Transmogrification

Troop Warrior x10 = 130
(Royal court) Cryptek = 25+5 = 30
Transmogrification

Troop Warrior x10 = 130
(Royal court) Cryptek = 25+5 = 30
Transmogrification

Elite C’tan Shard = 185+35+10 = 230
Lord of fire, writhing worldscape

Elite Triarch Stalker = 150

Fast Attack Canoptek Scarabs x10 = 150

Heavy Monolith = 200
Heavy Monolith = 200
Heavy Monolith = 200

= 2000

Now I just have to say that the tournament I went to was the very first chance I had to use my necrons and I lost all 3 games (including a dawn of war game which I should have destroyed him on).
So basically the plan was to really constrict my opponents movement, force him to reserve his stuff so that he wasnt killed by special abilities and the like and then have my guys that have been slowly moving up the field just pick them all off in pieces. And it worked for the most part except if you're going to use a list like the one I used I had to adopt a different playstyle.
But I'm gonna break it down by units for a few and describe what really worked.

1. The triarch stalker: this thing was so fail I couldn't even believe it. Not only does it crumple like tinfoil in assault, it really doesn't add a whole lot to a tremorstave army. You can't deepstrike it so there's no element of surprise like you'd have with the monoliths, it has a very short range and thus will be able to be shot back, and its open topped so if something does pen it you might as well kiss it goodbye. I'm literally going to drop this guy for a 2nd squad of scarabs.

2. Scarabs: Hands down the MVP of my games. These little guys were simply amazing at getting into position and eating every armored enemy in there way! Sure ironclad dreads gave them a little trouble but even losing 3 scarab bases in assault before they get to attack means you pretty much just spent 45 points to take down a 150 pt unit. Add night fighting and tremorstaves to limit the enemies shooting and mobility and these guys truly become epic win.

3. Monolith: Now I was using orikan's reserves ability to get these guys on the board, deepstriking them into enemy lines to kill vehicles and be a roadblock. This is not how you should use them at all it turns out! In my 3 games I fared far better when I did the risky thing and tried to suck up the beefy low str models that give tremorstave lists problems, this also lets you shoot the flayers and hopefully stun some vehicles at the same time. Nothing says screw you draigowing like 3 monliths landing in a triangle around them and sucking them up with ease (not to mention they need a 6+ to hit you on the next turn meaning that its highly likely you'll be able to suck even more in the next turn)! I had a game where I managed to suck up 3 obliterators and a defiler, and glancing 2 rhinos in one turn just by being a little risky. But imo that is how you should use them. Oh or to shoot at blobs of marines that's always fun too! (please keep in mind that although a particle whip has a 24" range you lose about 3" of range by simply measuring over the monolith hull itself, this really hurt me during my games).

4. Imotekh: Pure pimpsauce. Oh here's something you can do to really screw with your opponent on a tremor list. LET THEM GO FIRST AND THEN STEAL THE INITIATIVE! Having your opponent go first, especially during dawn of war will give them a false sense of boldness as they think, "well their c'tan is off the board! I'm gonna risk it and not hold things in reserve!" And then WHAM you steal it, move that pretty c'tan shard on the board and then they are really in the hurt. Dont rely on lightning though it barely hits, just focus on those statistical 2 turns of NF'ing and getting your units into position.

5. C'tan: With nightfighting you really have two choices with this guy. On non-objective games I always move him forward and try to assault something; though on objective games I've considered leaving him around the warriors for some added defense.

6. Warriors: they performed just like I'd hoped, holding back and waiting for the enemy to head to them while using the longer range of the staves to hit units that the warriors cant hit.

7. Orikan: Worth it simply for the first turn advantage, stick him with some warriors, try to take out some demonprinces with your gun; everyone always forgets that friggin awesome gun!

But yea that was from my experiences, deepstriking armies can be very hard to deal with, as well as demon princes who dont give a rip about difficult terrain, fly up to you and eat you.

If you're going to use doomscythes then please please use night fighting of some sort; otherwise you might as well toss them free kp's.

And then one last little quirp; if you're going to use a tremorstave army you have to have the offensive ability to deal with things in your opponents backfield, hence the tremorstaves should be defensive and the rest of your army should be offensive.

Wow. Great data!

Alright, your opinion of the triarch stalker is fairly in line with my own, you need to have a list that's really designed to work with it; and it's definitely wasted in a list with Imotekh. It's meant as gunline support and Imotekh doesn't play well with gunlines, forcing you to use it outside of it's preferred range. I'd stick a heavy gauss on it and use it as a back-field fire support option and little else.

I've had similar experience with scarabs; they either get wasted right off or they do something great. No surprise there.

Monoliths: You were the first player whom I've encountered that said the 'gate to Delaware' was the strong point; amazing that it worked so well for you, but I guess if you're running three, it's bound to come in handy. Syncing all 3 with Orikan's perfect timing was a great call - you must have gotten lucky with those scatter dice, I'm mishapping with those things a little too often for my taste.

C'tan; the way i see it, if he makes it into assault, he's already earned his points, you're looking at turn 3 minimum, which means he's survived long enough to have in impact, and every unit he kills in CC is just gravy.

Warriors, okay. Whatevs. They delivered quake for you, so great!

Orikan attached to a Phaeron like imotekh is a nice move, allowing you to shoot that weird ass gun and still move, so nice there.

How would you rearrange your list if you were up against the same match ups again?

Things I will add to the next list:

I think im goin to opt for 2 reg. Overlords, deck them out and have them join units.

Lords with Mindshackle Scarabs to hopefully turn the tied CC wise.

Veil of Doom Crypteks (2) so that 2 units can run away when enemy CC units come too close.

2 Seperate Royal Courts with Tremorstaves.

2 small units of Wraiths.

A larger blob of Scarabs.

Things I will take out:

Catacomb Command Barge

Heavy Destroyers.

Orikan, so that I can run 2 royal courts.

Still pondering the Doom Ark and Heavy choices that could replace it or just all together forget.

junk wrote:Wow. Great data!

Alright, your opinion of the triarch stalker is fairly in line with my own, you need to have a list that's really designed to work with it; and it's definitely wasted in a list with Imotekh. It's meant as gunline support and Imotekh doesn't play well with gunlines, forcing you to use it outside of it's preferred range. I'd stick a heavy gauss on it and use it as a back-field fire support option and little else.

I've had similar experience with scarabs; they either get wasted right off or they do something great. No surprise there.

Monoliths: You were the first player whom I've encountered that said the 'gate to Delaware' was the strong point; amazing that it worked so well for you, but I guess if you're running three, it's bound to come in handy. Syncing all 3 with Orikan's perfect timing was a great call - you must have gotten lucky with those scatter dice, I'm mishapping with those things a little too often for my taste.

C'tan; the way i see it, if he makes it into assault, he's already earned his points, you're looking at turn 3 minimum, which means he's survived long enough to have in impact, and every unit he kills in CC is just gravy.

Warriors, okay. Whatevs. They delivered quake for you, so great!

Orikan attached to a Phaeron like imotekh is a nice move, allowing you to shoot that weird ass gun and still move, so nice there.

How would you rearrange your list if you were up against the same match ups again?

Hmm lets see, if I was against the same matchups again... I'd have definitely dropped the stalker, added 8 scarabs and split the scarabs into 3 groups of 6 for an incredibly dangerous wall of threat, and then used the extra 30 points to change the c'tans lord of fire into the thunderbolt so he could do some dmg while lumbering across the field; because while he usually does make it to where he wants to go, the "lascannon" would have helped against the landraiders and dreads I fought.

*edit* actually this puts me 5 over I think, maybe the redeployment power?

Garukadon -

Sounds a little confused - Wraiths and Scarabs work well combined with CCB overlords, while the Phaeron Overlords you're suggesting favor large squads of Gauss Flayers or Gauss Blasters, supported by smaller squads of tesla immortals. In that set up I would use a minimum of 4 troop choices with a minimum of 4 tremorstaves, potentially 6, for full quake saturation. Losing Orikan means you don't auto-quake round one, so you need more quake to justify the c'tan. Small units of wraiths are harassers and tarpits, not the brutal squad killers that large units of wraiths are, but if you use them carefully and dont rush them in to fight full strength squads, then they should work for you. With a gunline list and no Imotekh nonsense, you can get away with using some of the big guns - Heavy destroyers, Doomsday arks; or killer squads like deathmarks and tomb blades. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your tweaked list and your next update!

TauTemplar -

3x6 scarabs is actually pretty interesting; you force your opponent to decide which squad to focus on (could backfire if he's got a large amount of blast or template weaponry) and should probably be supported by 3 spyders to keep the squads healthy, but that would mean dropping one of your 3 monoliths.

And wow, 3 monoliths - I've thought about it, but i've never tried it. We really need to hammer the crap out of that option to see how it stacks up to some of our other choices. There's something incredibly potent about combining the abilities of Orikan, Imotekh, and 3 monoliths that just screams "this is a real problem" for an opponent.

I'd like to hear other opinions about TremorCrons + 3 Monoliths from anyone who hasn't spoken up in a while; we've got a good brain trust going here, and I'd really like to hear some fresh input on this one.

Ok, here's my list of questions:

Does 2-3 Monoliths compensate for the weakness of MSU? It seems like it should... triple monoliths can dominate the center of the board, even immobilized and it can move MSU units that would get assaulted out of the way. Seems to me that we want dedicated assault units piling out of those Monoliths too (other than the C'Tan, of course).
Does the Monolith bring more to the list than 3-5 scythes (Night scythes AND doom scythes?)

Which secondary, C'Tan power? Lord of Fire seems a no-brainer but if we are planning on assaulting, Gaze of death is very attractive.

I tried mocking up a triple monolith list, and I just couldn't fit enough stuff in @ 2k. In particular, I wanted 2 small units of wraiths to pile out and eat things that get close to the Monoliths. I also wanted Immortals, rather than warriors. It's ok at 2 monoliths... Hmm...

2k Aftershock
Orikan
Overlord w/Phaeron, warscythe, MSS, SW
4x Tremorteks

3x8 Immortals tesla
9x Immortals, gauss

2 units 4x Wraiths, 2 whipcoils

2x Monoliths
1996

I love the title 'Aftershock'... double Monoliths landing is the quake, followed by the tremor staff goodness...

Started playing around with combining my Nemesor/Dlord super Triarch Praetorian wing with the WW list, but I'm thinking to get all the toys I want it would have to run into the 2500 range.

What I got so far:

400 TPs x 10 (VB/PC)
230 C'Tan w/WW (cheap w/LofF)
185 Nemesor
200 DLord (estimated point cost, haven't decided on toys but definitely an RO and SW, prob MSS)
150 TBs WIth Shadowlooms
150 TBs WIth Shadowlooms
200 Monolith

1515

Obviously need troops. Basically the idea is the TBs turbo boost first turn and provides a wall of cover for the TPs and Dlord. C'Tan Hides behind Mono and slugs it up the field. Nemesor needs a unit, probably a 10 strong of Tesla immortals. I really dig the super sized squad of TP's, they make a perfect target for Nemies buffs, stealth first turn, tank hunter the second, furious charge the third, etc.

Thing is, I've always wanted to go all out with this idea and add Obyron, some shield guard to the list.

So maybe something like:
160 Obyron
90 Lord WS/MSS/RO
400 10 LG
100 Night Scythe
170 10 Tesla Immortals
65 5 Warriors

To round out 2500. The idea behind the NS is to flat out it up first turn to give Oby and his death squad a pinpoint DS. Then with their opponents slowed the TPs and the LG should be able to make a suitable death sandwich. The lack of troops is obiviuosly a weekeness, thoughts are to trim the LG and TPs a tad to get more room for troops, or just say F it and run the Death Company style and just go for the table (plus theirs a considerable amount of threat overload on the filed, as I believe Junk would call it, so maybe the troops get ignored long enough).

Anyway, just something I've been kicking around a bit. I know one thing, if by turn 3 or 4 I could see all those monsters in CC it would be a pretty site.

Edit: Just realised I didn't pay for the shields, though with the RO not sure I absolutely need them.

Here's something that I've been thinking on for a while now.

What if there isn't an optimal list here? Just about any list (with the points to spare) can benefit from having a C'tan with Writhing Worldscape in it. Sure, we can add things like tremorstaves and Orikan to spread the love around some more. We can add units that benefit from slowed enemies (Flayed Ones, Lychguard, etc.)

We are having difficulty focusing on a build because this tool belongs in EVERY necron army.

Anpu-adom wrote:Here's something that I've been thinking on for a while now.

What if there isn't an optimal list here? Just about any list (with the points to spare) can benefit from having a C'tan with Writhing Worldscape in it. Sure, we can add things like tremorstaves and Orikan to spread the love around some more. We can add units that benefit from slowed enemies (Flayed Ones, Lychguard, etc.)

We are having difficulty focusing on a build because this tool belongs in EVERY necron army.

I do agree that pretty much every necron list can benefit from the c'tan but if you arent optimizing for such thing it seems like a waste of points. And @shadar, yes this list vastly increases in effectiveness at the 2500 level.

Why would it be a waste? With the amount of terrain that's slung around these days, WW is just useful to have, helping pick off little units wandering around in terrain, or letting you bunker better, knowing that the enemy will be taking Dangerous Terrain tests if they try to assault you.

Orikan, of course, makes it that much sweeter.

300 points is a big investment, considering that the C'tan itself doesn't play well with a lot of necron builds. The goal here is to optimize for WW, but it seems like the best we can hope to do is mash up a good build by jamming a 620 point core into it.

I think really to capitalize on the WW thing, we want a decent shooting army that can throw down a mid-field obstacle and react to outflankers and deep strikers, with some Anti-tank peppered in (scarabs probably)

Monoliths or Spyders cover the midfield as a road block.
Foot slogging immortals spread out to slow down approaching troops (should be tesla)

With A monolith, you want Orikan and a C'tan with gaze - essentially suiciding around turn 3 into CC - Times arrow or Entropic strike are also good options that save you points over gaze.

The Scythelords in barges are probably just too good to pass up, keep them lean, no excessive wargear - but you don't want to alpha strike with them - you want to play a defensive, reactive game, using them as weapons against anything that crosses the point of no return on the battlefield - vehicles you have failed to immobilize and the like.

Here's what I'm thinking.

Orikan 165 or Scythelord on Barge 180
Scythelord on Barge 180
1 Pulsetek or 2 pulseteks with second Scythelord 110
4 quaketeks (maybe a harp) 120-150
C'tan WW GI 260 or Gaze with Orikan (270)
(990ish)

10 Scarabs or 5 PC Tomb Blades or 3 Heavy Destroyers

4 min immortal squads 340
2 doomsday arks 350
1 monolith 200 or 3 Spyders w/ 2 PCs
(890)


Reasonably - the doomsday arks should be deployed in corners, unless your opponent has outflankers, then you want them outside of threat. You can pretty much sit back and shoot for 1-2 turns, protected by solar pulses, and then once your opponent has committed, use your monolith, c'tan, and scythelords to punish that commitment. If you force the enemy to play from reserve with orikan, then take center board as soon as possible.

If you don't want to play the long range shooting game, I think that scythespam or wraithwing are probably the next best options, followed by scarab farm. < all of these can work with or without the Immotekh/Orikan combo.

Remember that with an assault army, you're not optimizing for WW - because once models are engaged in CC, movement isn't a factor anymore. However, assault armies still benefit from the presence of a big face beater like the C'tan, so it's not a total waste.

junk wrote:

Remember that with an assault army, you're not optimizing for WW - because once models are engaged in CC, movement isn't a factor anymore. However, assault armies still benefit from the presence of a big face beater like the C'tan, so it's not a total waste.

I disagree with this a bit, the biggest knock against FOs and LG are they are too slow to catch their prey. WW solves this problem rather effectively.

That being said, I like your shooting list. I definitely think Doomsdays are another unit that could thrive with WW.

We made a Bell of Lost Souls Article. Basically a repeat of what we've decided here.

Other than the C'tan, Tremorteks are cheap.

Can be added to most other army lists.

Only above 1850.

His list is far from optimized, but really makes the point that you can combine elements of scarab farm, Wraith Wing, and Quake (thus supporting the main point of his article).

Nice post on BoLs, the comments section made me sad, as usual. I love how AP has to come smear his moron on every idea that doesn't fit into the preconceived notions he's developed for how the game should be played.


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I love how he has 20 3+/RP5+ and 20 4+/RP5+ troops, MUCH MUCH more then the bog standard MSU list, and one of those blocks is protected by a 3 wounds 2+/3++ with phylactery monster, and the haters all respond with "durrrr not enough troops durrrrrr."

Yeah... I was shocked by the sheer idiocy of a couple of the responses.
Necrons look bad on paper... they just do. We pay a premium for our RP roll, and seem ineffective in a unit by unit analysis. But we have so much synergy, even the most moronic 40k forum pundits must have tripped over some by now.

You can tell from the comments who's a necron player and who isn't. That being said, I didn't love his list as it seemed like a hybrid of the 3 main lists we've been discussing here, however I didn't hate it either.

I definitely get the sense that he based some of that on our discussion.

Still it seems a bit confused. A gunline that has to overcome night fighting, paired with a small scarab farm, and supported by only 6 wraiths and an annihilation barge. Nothing except immortals are being run in pairs, which means that target priority is pretty simple for an opponent to settle on.

The list lends itself to aggressive play, because of the 24" effective range and 4 close combat units; which negates the value of the stormlord. Still, It was an interesting hybrid list, and a good article, despite AbusePuppy's flames.

He had 12 Wraiths, although I did find myself scratching my head on the way he tricked them out. Really, my only big concern with the list is that the C'Tan would go down to fast. Other then that, I really dig the 20 warrior Imo + Orikan blob, and it seems that Wraiths and Scarabs are a good combo for his Special characters as they aren't hurt by Imo's NF and they are boosted by the static nature WW+Orikan forces onto opponents.

The two stranded Teks also a minor disagreement. Sheesh, the vitriol of some though...I think AP has a woody for bashing this guy.

Edit: NVM 6 Wraiths. Not sure why I thought I saw 12.

Alright, are we ready for some conclusions here? Or at least some that can be tested?

After 5 pages of this thread I think we've covered almost every permutation of this build and we're ready to start narrowing gak down.

What conclusions can we come to? Can tremorcron be competitive? Assault or Gunline? Is Orikan an Auto-include?

I'd like to move on to Jump-Crons, triple monolith, The Rebellion, and Iron-cron threads eventually, before compiling a full necron tactica.


Just so I have somewhere to put it down for now:

Triple Monolith: We've all considered it, how to optimize for it?

The Rebellion: Two royal yachts backed up by 2 phaeron'd warrior blobs and 2 full deathmark squads. Proposed and named as the anti-deathstar build.

Jump-Crons - fun list of mainly Jump Infantry - D.Lords, Destroyers, Praetorians, Wraiths - to complement scythe infantry.

Iron-Crons - Double Lychguard deathstars attached to Rezlords with scythes and MSS; backed up by monoliths - for a super tough list - thinking nemesor and illuminor here.

Here are my thoughts:

Issue #1. Is Orikan an auto include?
I believe that Orikan belongs in about 85% of Tremorcon lists. He forces your opponent to go into reserve or give up moving first turn... both things that the list should be able to capitalize on. I also don't think that it is necessary to have a 2nd royal court in these lists. There is room for other options, including double Surfboard Lords in a Scythespam list.

Issue #2 Gunline or Assault
I believe that the balance lies mostly on the side of assault. We are immobilizing a lot of vehicles, and that doesn't help our shooting one lick, but it does make a vehicle easy pickings for wraiths or scarabs. Granted... we will then have to deal with what comes out of the vehicle, but I think that we have the tools to deal with that.

Issue #3 Scythe spam
While I think that Scythe spam is one way to go with the list, I think that a pair of Monoliths offers us more. We need to take advantage of being more mobile than our opponents, but the monolith is capable of more gains in that area than Scythes.

I don't believe Orikan to be auto-include, but I do always put him in mine.

I definitely feel like Monoliths belong in the Assault version of this list, as they allow the C'tan and the C'tan form of Orikan get into combat, as well as protecting your advancing troops from gunfire. On the shooting side, I think Doomsday arks are the way to go.

I think scythespam lists are stronger as Pure scythespam lists, and don't benefit significantly from the tremorcron mechanic.

At 2000 points, are we competitive?
Here are our match ups:
Obviously at 2000, draigowing is a beast - stormravens can get right up on us, delivering paladin deathstars into assault

Missile wolves are pretty much the same at 1850 and 2000, and I think we match up well against them.

DoA is pretty ugly for us, as well as drop pod salamanders, any enemy that isn't impeded by our quake is going to have an advantage in points over us - as we're using ours for abilities that don't affect them greatly.

I think we'll do well against a lot of foot lists, especially orks and foot guard, we have a lot of blast markers and no shortage of tesla our disposal.

Mech Lists are harder for us - Psyback spam, Mech Guard, MechDar, etc...

Tyranids are a problem too, outflanking fleet troops that eat our flanks, monstrous creatures that aren't slowed by difficult terrain and don't care about dangerous terrain test, more bodies than we have guns...

what am I missing?

I supposed you should add Demons where you placed Nids and DOA (depending on the build).

I think the shooty list matches up better with lists that use their vehicles aggressively, like Dark Eldar and Razorspam.

I think the assault list matches up better with more defensive vehicle builds (Mech Guard).

Both lists eat foot lists for dinner.

As far as countering drop lists (DOA, Demons, and drop pods) we are going to have to deploy our troops into terrain... and a some Crucibles may earn their points.

A real problem will be those things that ignore terrain, (MC and opposing wraiths, etc.)

Wait, outside of the C'Tan, MCs don't ignore terrain right, they just get an extra D6?

Also, I would think, though haven't played one yet (with WW), we'd do well against drop lists like DOA and demons. 1/6th of their army will be dead the moment they arrive right? Then they will be stuck in sand where we can pick and choose our assaults (if we're CC based) or back pedal and pew pew.

I had an evil thought for the CC based tremor-cron list. Check out this recent post in YMDC http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/429234.page

If we include Orikan and they reserve everything, if we have 2 squads of Flayed Ones, we could block the whole back field edge. It makes for an interesting foil to a common counter strategy.

Yeah I've been thinking about that too. Full reserve makes their deployment zone the FOs playground.

I've been reading this list and maybe I missed it buy why Immortals over Warriors?

Ikonoklast wrote:I've been reading this list and maybe I missed it buy why Immortals over Warriors?

Immortals basically for this reason: Immortals work better than warriors in small units, and with teslas the Immortals can actually stay out of assault better than warriors.


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ShadarLogoth wrote:Yeah I've been thinking about that too. Full reserve makes their deployment zone the FOs playground.

Oh, oh... the cheese... I think I'm drowning in the cheese. But I love cheese. :-)

Yea the only problem with the flayed ones is that on dawn of war you can't infiltrate with them to block the back field, if you deepstrike them you cant line up to block the field very well, they die easy. They are cheap though which is nice. In a normal game they cant really do much either, they tend to just get slaughtered; imo rather have something with a gun.

So I came up with a 2500 list using the 3 monolith AND the melee deathstar strategy. Here's the list.

HQ Imotekh the Stormlord = 225
HQ Orikan = 165
HQ Royal Court (attached to Stormlord and Zandrekh)
Lord x5 = 650
Warscythe, mindshackle scarabs, phase shifter, sempiternal weave, 1x res orb, 1xlabyrinth
Cryptek = = 70
Eternity: chronometron, timesplinter cloak
Cryptek = 45
Transmogrification: crucible

Troop warrior x10 = 130
+Cryptek = 30
Transmogrification

Troop warrior x10 = 130
+Cryptek = 30
Transmogrification

Troop warrior x10 = 130
+Cryptek = 30
Transmogrification

Elite C’tan Shard = 265
Thunderbolt, writhing worldscape

Heavy Monolith = 200
Heavy Monolith = 200
Heavy Monolith = 200

= 2500

So obviously everything would start on the field except for the monoliths.

The uber melee HQ (which I've playtested to be extremely effective against other dedicated melee units) would stay in the middle of the warrior squads to kill any melee units that get close; also if you're rolling mediocre you can choose to either A: reroll imotekh's lightning, B: reroll orikan's "star's align" rolls, or if you're doing extremely well and are going to be assaulted reroll the crucible. It's extremely durable too with 6x 2+/3++'s, 1x T7 3++ save (given the right turn), a res orb that cant be picked off like zandrekh's, and they go faster than thunderhammers! yay!

The warriors are your typical shoot em up and foot slog.

I gave the c'tan lightning, cause, well... why the hell not? He's already a huge investment, might as well let him shoot something before he melee's stuff.

So what do you guys think? Sure its a little, "all eggs in one basketish", but I think it just might be extremely fun to play with for 'ard boyz, especially given that its an extremely durable, extremely annoying and can even commence primary ignition on the right units that get too close. (Actually I built this particular list as revenge on the demon player I fought and lost too in the last tourny; I'd like to see his demon princes get close to my deathstar!)