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I'm pretty sure that a SPARTAN would never go head to head with a Marine, and are more likely to ambush and pick-and-choose their battles... And they wouldn't choose to go head-to-head with an 8 foot tall killing machine armed with an automatic RPG launcher,

One-on-one, Space-marines win, without any hassle.

As the numbers increase, the tables may turn a bit as Spartan IIs are smaller and can hide with ease similar to that of a guardsmen (even more closely to a kasrkin). Spartan IIIs may even be better off as they can hide even easier and their suits' power-signatures are harder to detect (something the IoM would probably know about). In increments of 100~200, I think Spartans begin to see an advantage, especially if they are Spartan IIIs.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

The fact that they are not as survivable as Spess Mahreens in warfare.

Well, that's pretty vague. Also, kinda unfair to them a bit; they didn't really have much of a chance to get more than a handful of IIs completed before their only homeworld was attacked, wiping them out almost completely. It'd be like if Terra was attacked just before the Emperor had finished gathering the legions and could leave to conquer the nuts off of the known galaxy; a far different fight than the one at the end of the Horus Heresy, for example.
Still, that's life.

Well they had like 40 something Spartan IIs, and one of them lived to 45, and shows no signs that he will continue living indefinitely. That's like an 97.5% mortality rate, in what basically amounts to one battle. Astartes don't die that easily, or else the great crusade would have failed miserably.

40something SPARTANS against a huge army, the size of which would make even the Imperium think "hmmm, could be a tricky one?" Yeah, it's no wonder they were wiped out. The same would happen to SMs, and yes, there is plenty of fluff to support that idea.

Not really. That army was much, much smaller than most of the things the Imperium fights. An ork WAAAGH! for example would be much, much bigger.


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Squidmanlolz wrote:One-on-one, Space-marines win, without any hassle.

As the numbers increase, the tables may turn a bit as Spartan IIs are smaller and can hide with ease similar to that of a guardsmen (even more closely to a kasrkin). Spartan IIIs may even be better off as they can hide even easier and their suits' power-signatures are harder to detect (something the IoM would probably know about). In increments of 100~200, I think Spartans begin to see an advantage, especially if they are Spartan IIIs.

At the same time though, two hundred space marines is a force to conquer entire systems. And there is no sneaking up on a space marine.

im2randomghgh wrote:

At the same time though, two hundred space marines is a force to conquer entire systems. And there is no sneaking up on a space marine.

The UNSC had some nifty cloaking devices, SPI armor was just about undetectable no matter what type of energy/radiation you are looking for. It does however sacrifice a lot of armor value.

Edit: Also, note the operation: Prometheus, where 300 Spartan IIIs all but defeated one of the largest deployments of Covenant ever seen by humans (numbering in the thousands) the Spartans lasted seven days of full assault, accomplishing their mission against all odds. (remember these are Spartan IIIs, a lot weaker than Spartan IIs at face value)

The Covenant was a VAST army. And had some nifty tech, all their weapons were plasma based and didn't kill the user. So we are talking an army of plasma rifle totting religious fanatics that a single SPARTAN pretty much took out single handedly.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:The Covenant was a VAST army. And had some nifty tech, all their weapons were plasma based and didn't kill the user. So we are talking an army of plasma rifle totting religious fanatics that a single SPARTAN pretty much took out single handedly.

You are very correct, by 40k standards neither the humans nor the Covenant held considerable amounts of space. However the Covenant emipire made the humans feel like Tau looking into the eye of the Imperium. There were amazing odds faced against all of humanity and realistically (all, good story-telling aside) IRL the Covenant would probably win.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:The Covenant was a VAST army. And had some nifty tech, all their weapons were plasma based and didn't kill the user. So we are talking an army of plasma rifle totting religious fanatics that a single SPARTAN pretty much took out single handedly.

You are very correct, by 40k standards neither the humans nor the Covenant held considerable amounts of space. However the Covenant emipire made the humans feel like Tau looking into the eye of the Imperium. There were amazing odds faced against all of humanity and realistically (all, good story-telling aside) IRL the Covenant would probably win.

Yeah, John is pretty much the last word in "Mary Sue" ... Draigo is nothing compared to this BAMF.

Considering that the poorly equiped UNSC managed to fight the covenant on almost equal terms on the ground, shows that the much better equiped Imperial Guard will dominate them. And that the main gun of a UNSC will take out a covcrusier, the Imperial Navy will dominate space. So no, the IoM will laugh at the.Covenant, even the Tau would laugh at them.

I believe the Tau actually hold more space than the Covenant did. The Covenant only ever claimed about 1/3~1/4 of our arm of the milky way. Humans had much less, only securing planets that were relatively close to Earth due to their primitive space travel.

Does anyone feel like comparing the size of empires between the two universes, I'm far too tired?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:The Covenant was a VAST army. And had some nifty tech, all their weapons were plasma based and didn't kill the user. So we are talking an army of plasma rifle totting religious fanatics that a single SPARTAN pretty much took out single handedly.

You are very correct, by 40k standards neither the humans nor the Covenant held considerable amounts of space. However the Covenant emipire made the humans feel like Tau looking into the eye of the Imperium. There were amazing odds faced against all of humanity and realistically (all, good story-telling aside) IRL the Covenant would probably win.

Yeah, John is pretty much the last word in "Mary Sue" ... Draigo is nothing compared to this BAMF.

Welllllll....Master Chief doesn't carve his name in the hearts of near-gods, and burn down the gardens of ACTUAL gods...


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ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Considering that the poorly equiped UNSC managed to fight the covenant on almost equal terms on the ground, shows that the much better equiped Imperial Guard will dominate them. And that the main gun of a UNSC will take out a covcrusier, the Imperial Navy will dominate space. So no, the IoM will laugh at the.Covenant, even the Tau would laugh at them.

Especially with the scale of the ships.

Pillar of autumn (just about the mightiest warship of the UNSC)

1.17km long
340m wide
414m tall

The Phalanx can dock a dozen cruisers (Cruiser>Pillar of autumn) inside itself, as well as being as big as a moon and having it's own ecosystem. ...basically a deathstar.

It could eat the Unyielding Hierophant

I don't care to fully commit to this argument simply because I disagree so much with the arguments presented, but I must offer one piece of advice to further suggestions;

Space Marines find their bolters holy. Unless they are a special-weapon SM, they're rollin' bolter-style.

Spartan II's equip themselves mission-specific, utilize guerrilla tactics, and the MK V armor (Weakest armour in the game series in terms of MJOLNIR) can indeed withstand a shot from the grenade launcher in Reach, which is relatively fair a comparison to a bolter shell. The Sniper Rifle cannot pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is .50 caliber, it can pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is a .50 caliber round, saboted, with secondary propulsion; it is essentially a jet-propelled bullet.

Damn I completely misread this thread. I'm not familar with the halo universe so I thought the 300 spartans vs a space marine and was going "THIS IS MADNESS!"

The Space Marines would hop in their ships.

If any Spartans would survive they would be destroyed by Auto-cannons and other weapons.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

At the same time though, two hundred space marines is a force to conquer entire systems. And there is no sneaking up on a space marine.

The UNSC had some nifty cloaking devices, SPI armor was just about undetectable no matter what type of energy/radiation you are looking for. It does however sacrifice a lot of armor value.

Edit: Also, note the operation: Prometheus, where 300 Spartan IIIs all but defeated one of the largest deployments of Covenant ever seen by humans (numbering in the thousands) the Spartans lasted seven days of full assault, accomplishing their mission against all odds. (remember these are Spartan IIIs, a lot weaker than Spartan IIs at face value)

If you go by that sort of thing then you also have to note that Sisigmund (however his name is spelt) was fighting a seemingly endless hord of traitor marines outside the walls of the Imperial palace for days without rest. How long would a spartan have lasted? Lets be honest the end of Reach was pretty poor it was as if the Covenant were invading nora's ark 2 by 2 hardly a swarm or hord. Plus the Spartans seem to have a habit of running around on their own (well in the games anyway)

Daston wrote:

If you go by that sort of thing then you also have to note that Sisigmund (however his name is spelt) was fighting a seemingly endless hord of traitor marines outside the walls of the Imperial palace for days without rest. How long would a spartan have lasted? Lets be honest the end of Reach was pretty poor it was as if the Covenant were invading nora's ark 2 by 2 hardly a swarm or hord. Plus the Spartans seem to have a habit of running around on their own (well in the games anyway)

Actually, not so seemingly endless. The Traitor Legions do have actual numbers to them, it would have been in the hundreds of thousands.


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I like how this has turned from a SM vs. SPARTAN-II 'debate' into an Imperium vs. Halo Universe one, by the way. Nice.

Spartan II power armor could probably stand up to a bolter round or two before the reactive liquid metal layers failed. But, the field of "shield" energy would probably set off the bolter's explosive charge even if it was a near miss. UNSC sniper rifles could reach out and cap Space Marines before they would be in range. At low numbers and closer ranges, SM win. At high numbers and long range, advantage Spartans.

Veritech Cyclone wins.

TheCaptain wrote:I don't care to fully commit to this argument simply because I disagree so much with the arguments presented, but I must offer one piece of advice to further suggestions;

Space Marines find their bolters holy. Unless they are a special-weapon SM, they're rollin' bolter-style.

Spartan II's equip themselves mission-specific, utilize guerrilla tactics, and the MK V armor (Weakest armour in the game series in terms of MJOLNIR) can indeed withstand a shot from the grenade launcher in Reach, which is relatively fair a comparison to a bolter shell. The Sniper Rifle cannot pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is .50 caliber, it can pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is a .50 caliber round, saboted, with secondary propulsion; it is essentially a jet-propelled bullet.

When you described the sniper in halo, you describe the bolter. Only the bolter blows up after impact. Another nail in the coffin of a Spartan Vs Space Marine.

Squidmanlolz wrote: UNSC sniper rifles could reach out and cap Space Marines before they would be in range. At low numbers and closer ranges, SM win. At high numbers and long range, advantage Spartans.

Where d'you get that from?

A bolter round is essentially a small, spin-stabilized RPG. Since RPGs have been known to be used effectively at nearly a kilometer (in the hands of unaugmented humans), I'd be willing to bet a Space Marine can hit a man-sized target at that range or even more, potentially over a mile; and that's well into the range of a sniper weapon. Modern .50 cal rifles can accurately hit a man-sized target at 1500-2000 meters, which is around a mile. The very longest-range sniper kill ever recorded was a mile and a half.

Essentially, there's a reason that Space Marines rely on their bolters to do basically everything besides killing tanks; a Space Marine with a bolter CAN do basically anything besides killing tanks, and if they can get an angle on the weaker sections of armor they can even do that.

Spartans are easier to produce, Spartan IIIs can be produced at a high rate with good reliability.

Bolters have a MUCH shorter range than sniper rifles...

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Bolters have a MUCH shorter range than sniper rifles...

Source? Some Space Marines, certainly, make sniper-style kills at VERY long range with bolters. Sgt. Telion comes to mind.

TheCaptain wrote:I don't care to fully commit to this argument simply because I disagree so much with the arguments presented, but I must offer one piece of advice to further suggestions;

Space Marines find their bolters holy. Unless they are a special-weapon SM, they're rollin' bolter-style.

Spartan II's equip themselves mission-specific, utilize guerrilla tactics, and the MK V armor (Weakest armour in the game series in terms of MJOLNIR) can indeed withstand a shot from the grenade launcher in Reach, which is relatively fair a comparison to a bolter shell. The Sniper Rifle cannot pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is .50 caliber, it can pierce MJOLNIR armor because it is a .50 caliber round, saboted, with secondary propulsion; it is essentially a jet-propelled bullet.

Jet propelled...like a bolt...but small, and it doesn't explode.

And bolters are adapted for specific missions, it's just that they usually don't because they are so versatile and kill vehicles and infantry with ease.

Bolters are 24" inch range on the TT, Snipers (at least Eldar ones) are 36". So they have a bigger range...

Squidmanlolz wrote:Spartans are easier to produce, Spartan IIIs can be produced at a high rate with good reliability.

Not really, no. Space marines are much easier to produce, it takes only a few years.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Bolters are 24" inch range on the TT, Snipers (at least Eldar ones) are 36". So they have a bigger range...

UNSC snipers may get 48"+ (speculation)

What about Space Marine against the Spartans from 300? Would a Space Marine be able to kill all of them?

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Bolters are 24" inch range on the TT, Snipers (at least Eldar ones) are 36". So they have a bigger range...

Railguns IRL are capable of hitting targets dozens of nautical miles away, and are actually better off using a ballistic trajectory, which makes it curve with the earth and reach even greater speeds. On the TT they have 72" range.

It is just a mechanic.


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rodgers37 wrote:What about Space Marine against the Spartans from 300? Would a Space Marine be able to kill all of them?

Yes.

They wouldn't be able to hurt him and he could one-shot through their shields.

rodgers37 wrote:What about Space Marine against the Spartans from 300? Would a Space Marine be able to kill all of them?

Without a gun or CCW and with both arms tied behind his back, with a blindfold on.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:Bolters are 24" inch range on the TT, Snipers (at least Eldar ones) are 36". So they have a bigger range...

Tabletop stats have literally nothing to do with fluff. Do you have a background source for the range of a bolter?

Also; at the very best, this provides an indication that sniper rifles in the 41st millenium are longer-ranged than bolters. That doesn't tell us anything about UNSC sniper rifles.