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I know this topic has been done before, but how many Spartan IIs do you think a space marine could kill, or vice versa?

I would guess quite a lot because Spartan weaponry is considerably weaker than lasguns even and bolters could more than likely one shot them.

Thoughts?

In before the nerd rage commences


A Space Marine could kill at least 5-6 before getting killed, thats if we are talking basic equipment. if no one has any weapons, just armor, then the Spartens are boned.

im2randomghgh wrote:I know this topic has been done before, but how many Spartan IIs do you think a space marine could kill, or vice versa?

I would guess quite a lot because Spartan weaponry is considerably weaker than lasguns even and bolters could more than likely one shot them.

Thoughts?

Okay, so you're saying this topic has been done before and yet you start it up anyway, and then you say that Spartan weaponry is decidedly weaker altogether and a bolter could one shot them. You already know the answer, so why even bother?

Marine equals 10 guardsmen. Spartan probually equals 3-5. But has weaker weapons and armor. So. I agree with 5-6

A marine could kill as many spartans as he could that didn't have the sword, so long as the marine kept passing his armor saves.

A spartan could pick off as many marines as he wanted form range, so long as he always let his shield regen and they failed their armor saves.

Not sure why the standard assault rifle would be "far weaker than a lasgun". It would be roughly equal to an autogun, which in game terms is equal to a lasgun. No, it is not as destructive as a bolter, but don't sell it short.

As far as 'who would kill who', it very much depends on what we are talking about. Just the two of them locked in a room with no place ti hide or escape, I would say a marine would kill 3-4 spartans, possibly being heavily wounded in the process. Yes, his armor can shrug of most damage, but it has weaknesses, even being pierced by pointy sticks in some cases. A bullet or combat knife into the soft joints will do some damage. In a one-on-one situation this would be very unlikely, but in facing multiple opponents, even the most skilled combatant will be left open to being flanked or attacked from behind.

In a more realistic scenario, say, the two forces dropped onto some random planet, tactical marines will have no end of trouble with spartans. The reason is because spartans are more willimg to use actual tactics. They are more likely to use camo, set ambushes, etc. In this scenario, scouts would probably have an easier time fighting them than tacs would.

A spartan laser is basically a lascannon, so if the Spartans brought one of those, the Marine would be screwed.

Considering Spartan armor can withstand stuff like plasma grenades (not sticky'd), I think their shields could withstand one or two bolter shots before going down.

Overall, though, it'd probably take around four Spartans for every Marine.

Space Marines use tactics. Their armor isn't always brightly colored and their super-human senses can allow them to hide effectivly.

Their bodies also allow them to withstand injuries that would kill a sparten instantly.

*Sparten stabs marine through heart "Finally you're dead!" "Nu-uh beetch" *Rips sparten's head off

A UNSC marine can take a few bullets to the chest, and live. Lasguns rip off limbs in the fluff.

A spartens shield is negated by a sniper rifle. Which iirc are .50cal rounds. Meaning the shield is penetrated by heavy stubbers, ditto for the armor. Bolters have more penetrating power then the heavy stubber.

ashrog wrote:
As far as 'who would kill who', it very much depends on what we are talking about. Just the two of them locked in a room with no place ti hide or escape, I would say a marine would kill 3-4 spartans, possibly being heavily wounded in the process. Yes, his armor can shrug of most damage, but it has weaknesses, even being pierced by pointy sticks in some cases. A bullet or combat knife into the soft joints will do some damage. In a one-on-one situation this would be very unlikely, but in facing multiple opponents, even the most skilled combatant will be left open to being flanked or attacked from behind.

In a more realistic scenario, say, the two forces dropped onto some random planet, tactical marines will have no end of trouble with spartans. The reason is because spartans are more willimg to use actual tactics. They are more likely to use camo, set ambushes, etc. In this scenario, scouts would probably have an easier time fighting them than tacs would.

The smartest answer so far.
This is why:

People consistently undersell the abilites of the SPARTAN-II soldiers when this debate crops up, and usually in a big way, too. The biggest incorrect assumption: Spartans are NOT that much weaker than an SM. In fact, according to ancilliary fluff for the Halo universe, their respective strength levels are virtually indistinguishable, with both a Marine and a Spartan able to flip, say, a Scorpion Tank with relative ease.
The main advantages the Space Marine possesses over his opponent are his equipment (to an extent) and the multiple redundancy of some of his vital organs. Put simply, Power Armour is a significantly better exoskeleton system than MJOLNIR armour, as it is made of more resistant material and even without a shield generator has been shown to be resistent to many energy-based weapons, such as T'au weaponry. MJOLNIR does not have that same strength; it's protective abilities come from it's use of a personal shield, which essentially works as you'd expect a force-field to. Again, power armour is better, but not that much better; MJOLNIR grants a far faster speed of movement than it's SM counterpart as shown by the book "Fall of Reach" and it's sequels, and indeed is more stealthy; it makes nothing like the level of the noise a suit of Power Armour does when moving.

The weapons is an obvious answer; the boltgun is mightier than the autogun counterpart, even if that autogun is being dual-wielded by a superman.
Then of course we have the Marine's sheer survivability. You have to do one hell of a lot of damage to an SM before he gets even close to dying, and though SPARTAN-IIs are by no means pushovers (their bones are essentially unbreakable, and their muscles hypercondensened as well as expanded in size, which explains the equal levels of strength despite size differences between the two fighters) they are simply not able to take the same level of punishment as a Marine can and keep fighting. A marine can lose a heart; Spartans can't.

In conclusion to this long and overly detailed nerdy-ass essay, I would say that, while a SM would most likely win a one-on-one fight with a SPARTAN-II, it would not be without taking some very serious injuries in the process, and possibly even dying themselves in the attempt. At most, I'd say a single SM could take on 2 SPARTAN-IIs, 3 at the utmost, and still expect a chance of victory that's greater than 50%.

Yet Halo has sucked since 2, so why are we even making this comparison.

DoctorZombie wrote:Yet Halo has sucked since 2, so why are we even making this comparison.

Because it keeps getting brought up.
Also, Reach was pretty good.

In a one on one fight a Marine would thunderstomp a Spartan.

Depends on weapons, but I'll assume the basics here; bolter, grenades and PA for the Space Marine, battle rifle, magnum and frags for the SPARTANs.


Space Marine and an arbitrary number of SPARTANS dropped into an inescapable box; Space Marine beats up SPARTANS with his bolter-butt and hands for quite some time, eventually being rendered incapable of motion by repeated shots to the joints of his power armor and subsequently executed gangland-style. SPARTAN kills: Lots and lots.

Space Marine and SPARTAN facing each other across an open plain; Space Marine hammers the SPARTAN down with bolter shells, taking minor injuries from accurate but largely-ineffective return fire. Two SPARTANs would inflict a great deal more damage by flanking him, but the lack of cover still spells their doom; if there are three, the third one might manage to bring the Space Marine down or at least cripple him. SPARTAN kills: At least one, more likely two or three. Four would really be pushing it.

Space Marine force facing a SPARTAN force of equal size in mixed terrain; Space Marines sweep the area in combat squads, and either drive the SPARTANs out of cover to be cut down in the open or force them to engage in close-quarters. In either case the Space Marines will come out on top, but a cunning SPARTAN commander would likely be able to inflict pretty heavy casualties. Certainly, the fight would be much more brutal than fighting against Guardsmen. SPARTAN kills; on average, 1-2 per Space Marine, with the percentage of the Space Marine force that's lost hard to guess. Likely not less than 1/3rd.

Coolyo294 wrote:In a one on one fight a Marine would thunderstomp a Spartan.

Well, that's nice.
Got any evidence for this supreme superiority?

Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

Ok here's my point of view on it, 2 squads of 10 in mixed terrain with hills and such( so 10 spartans and 10 spess mahreens) Both sides have 1 special weapon and heavy weapon. SO a spartan laser and something else they feel fit for the mission. The space marines have a missile launcher and something they feel fit.

The space marines march through the mixed terrain using their armour for protection and using their shock and awe tactic, they would get raped. First fo all they have to get clsoe to spartans to do damage yet the spartans guns are good at long range and each shot that spartan laser get's off is one space marine dead.

Yes I;m a bit biased on this conversation but I;m sick of the nerds coming on and going my spess mahreens are toally awesome and can curbstomp all, yeh go spess mahreens! For the emperor!

So conclusion the spartans win because they ain;t cocky like the space marines and have tactics that they will see fit to out manouver the spess mahreens.


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Just adding I;ve hated all the halo's since 1 except odst which I found quite good, the rest are awful.

The strength levels would be enormously different.

Spartans are strong enough to flip vehicles, yes, but space marines, in addition to having more mass to throw around, have shown much greater strength. For one thing they move just as quickly as spartans, except they do it while wearing massive multiple inch thick ceramite armour, as oppose to the spartans armour which looks like it would lend itself to guerrila warfare and reconnaissance.

Also, a .50cal sniper bypassing Spartan shields means a .75 caliber armour piercing warhead would just devastate them. Also, there really isn't that much about spartans making them that much tougher than humans other than equipment, because they are shorter than marines, and really only have height, reflexes, skeleton and musculature enhanced, not lungs, not heart, no bone plate, they cannot spit acid, they don't have skin that is for all intents and purposes immune to small arms that aren't lasers or better etc.

Also, spartan laser is not a lascannon equivalent. Scorpion light tanks can survive more than one hit form them in most of the Halo games. Light tanks. That means they are the equivalent of AV11-12. Check it out on the halo.wikia.com page if you don't believe me about that part.

The M808B is considered "light" by standard definitions but has served as the UNSC's main battle tank well before the Human-Covenant war

Also, They would have literally zero means of fighting terminators. They can only kill hunters because of the massive areas of exposed "flesh" which is not present of termies, and termies and hunters are very close equivalents.

Also, space marine PA would be as tough as hunter armour. The heavy weaponry mounted on Crisis suits was shown to be insufficient to pierce the pauldron of a white scar in savage scars.

Even heavy bolters have been shown to be incapable of piercing marine armour and they are 1.00 caliber.

Marines also have centuries of experience, better training, auto-targeting suites in the armour and have all kinds of biological advantages. I'd wager that spartans wouldn't be able to hurt marines without heavy weapons or energy swords, and energy swords still wouldn't work too well for them because they're training and experience in h2h would be nothing like marine-CC is what they do.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ninja13 wrote:Ok here's my point of view on it, 2 squads of 10 in mixed terrain with hills and such( so 10 spartans and 10 spess mahreens) Both sides have 1 special weapon and heavy weapon. SO a spartan laser and something else they feel fit for the mission. The space marines have a missile launcher and something they feel fit.

The space marines march through the mixed terrain using their armour for protection and using their shock and awe tactic, they would get raped. First fo all they have to get clsoe to spartans to do damage yet the spartans guns are good at long range and each shot that spartan laser get's off is one space marine dead.

Yes I;m a bit biased on this conversation but I;m sick of the nerds coming on and going my spess mahreens are toally awesome and can curbstomp all, yeh go spess mahreens! For the emperor!

So conclusion the spartans win because they ain;t cocky like the space marines and have tactics that they will see fit to out manouver the spess mahreens.

For one thing we have no evidence a spartan laser could one shot a marine. For another, that is assuming they hit every shot, for another spartan lasers have four shots, for another the rest of the spartan weapons would do gak against PA.

Spartans are elite in the sense that they're mobile, but really that isn't gonna help you avoid a bolt, especially not with marine marksmanship. The marines on the other hand have plasma cannons which could take out multiple spartans per shot.

TBH I think a better comparison would be Stormtroopers versus Spartans, especially armour wise.

im2randomghgh wrote:The strength levels would be enormously different.

Spartans are strong enough to flip vehicles, yes, but space marines, in addition to having more mass to throw around, have shown much greater strength. For one thing they move just as quickly as spartans, except they do it while wearing massive multiple inch thick ceramite armour, as oppose to the spartans armour which looks like it would lend itself to guerrila warfare and reconnaissance.

Sorry, pal, but you're waaaaay off. In terms of mass, the two are far more similar than you might believe by looking at them; the SPARTAN-IIs muscles are actually much denser, which is why they're able to compare easily to SM in terms of strength. Both, for example, can flip a Scorpion Tank. In addition, you don't state just how SM show greater strength; you'll have to give examples. In addition, both suits enhance the strength of the wearer, though ironically this does not actually grant the SM an advantage as much as might be believed, as a lot of this enhanced strength merely combats the weight of the armour they wear.

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

That would be pretty young even for a scout.

Think about Bjorn and his 10,000 yrs experience, or Dante's 1200, or Lysander's 700 etc.

im2randomghgh wrote:

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

That would be pretty young even for a scout.

Think about Bjorn and his 10,000 yrs experience, or Dante's 1200, or Lysander's 700 etc.

Those are noted as being exceptional in their lifespans, and should not be taken as the average age an SM reaches.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

That would be pretty young even for a scout.

Think about Bjorn and his 10,000 yrs experience, or Dante's 1200, or Lysander's 700 etc.

Those are noted as being exceptional in their lifespans, and should not be taken as the average age an SM reaches.

45 is exceptional in master chief. Almost every spartan died on Reach. And the Spartan-III were just treated as expendable.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

That would be pretty young even for a scout.

Think about Bjorn and his 10,000 yrs experience, or Dante's 1200, or Lysander's 700 etc.

Those are noted as being exceptional in their lifespans, and should not be taken as the average age an SM reaches.

45 is exceptional in master chief. Almost every spartan died on Reach. And the Spartan-III were just treated as expendable.

Again, how do you know that 45 years of age is exceptional?
Also, almost every SPARTAN-II died on Reach due to near-impossible odds, in the same manner that certain SM chapters have been rendered extinct. Even a superhuman army can't hold out against a near-limitless horde.
Furthermore, SPARTAN-IIIs are irrelevant in this discussion, as the OP specifically mentions SPARTAN-IIs

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

BobTheChainsaw wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Ignoring the shielding from MJOLNIR, I think a more fair comparison would be Scouts vs Spartan-IIs. They are both fairly young, if I remember correctly, the Spartans-IIs were kidnapped as children and enhanced in a similar way to Scouts. This also removes the near-broken strength of Power Armour.

Actually, the Master Chief is around 45, I think. Though I guess that's young for a Space Marine.

That would be pretty young even for a scout.

Think about Bjorn and his 10,000 yrs experience, or Dante's 1200, or Lysander's 700 etc.

Those are noted as being exceptional in their lifespans, and should not be taken as the average age an SM reaches.

45 is exceptional in master chief. Almost every spartan died on Reach. And the Spartan-III were just treated as expendable.

Again, how do you know that 45 years of age is exceptional?
Also, almost every SPARTAN-II died on Reach due to near-impossible odds, in the same manner that certain SM chapters have been rendered extinct. Even a superhuman army can't hold out against a near-limitless horde.
Furthermore, SPARTAN-IIIs are irrelevant in this discussion, as the OP specifically mentions SPARTAN-IIs

It's exceptional in that he, and maybe one or two others were the only spartans to reach 45 years of age. The ages of those heroes of the Imperium are only exceptional because going to battle constantly means you risk dying. If they were, say, gardener or janitors, they would all simply continue to live indefinitely.

Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

The fact that they are not as survivable as Spess Mahreens in warfare.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

The fact that they are not as survivable as Spess Mahreens in warfare.

Well, that's pretty vague. Also, kinda unfair to them a bit; they didn't really have much of a chance to get more than a handful of IIs completed before their only homeworld was attacked, wiping them out almost completely. It'd be like if Terra was attacked just before the Emperor had finished gathering the legions and could leave to conquer the nuts off of the known galaxy; a far different fight than the one at the end of the Horus Heresy, for example.
Still, that's life.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

The fact that they are not as survivable as Spess Mahreens in warfare.

Well, that's pretty vague. Also, kinda unfair to them a bit; they didn't really have much of a chance to get more than a handful of IIs completed before their only homeworld was attacked, wiping them out almost completely. It'd be like if Terra was attacked just before the Emperor had finished gathering the legions and could leave to conquer the nuts off of the known galaxy; a far different fight than the one at the end of the Horus Heresy, for example.
Still, that's life.

Well they had like 40 something Spartan IIs, and one of them lived to 45, and shows no signs that he will continue living indefinitely. That's like an 97.5% mortality rate, in what basically amounts to one battle. Astartes don't die that easily, or else the great crusade would have failed miserably.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Is that due to their biological enhancements, the fact that they live a dangerous lifestyle, or the fact that the SPARTAN-II program itself never saw forty years of age before the Covenant came to Reach, thus putting the program out of action permanently?

The fact that they are not as survivable as Spess Mahreens in warfare.

Well, that's pretty vague. Also, kinda unfair to them a bit; they didn't really have much of a chance to get more than a handful of IIs completed before their only homeworld was attacked, wiping them out almost completely. It'd be like if Terra was attacked just before the Emperor had finished gathering the legions and could leave to conquer the nuts off of the known galaxy; a far different fight than the one at the end of the Horus Heresy, for example.
Still, that's life.

Well they had like 40 something Spartan IIs, and one of them lived to 45, and shows no signs that he will continue living indefinitely. That's like an 97.5% mortality rate, in what basically amounts to one battle. Astartes don't die that easily, or else the great crusade would have failed miserably.

40something SPARTANS against a huge army, the size of which would make even the Imperium think "hmmm, could be a tricky one?" Yeah, it's no wonder they were wiped out. The same would happen to SMs, and yes, there is plenty of fluff to support that idea.