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DarkHound wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:And if you found anything I said to be brilliant, then you'll love this part...

Ah yes, the picture of modesty.

A glowing recommendation of Spawn would confuse a player asking for advice. There is actually not a single scenario an equal points of CSM isn't better. No matter how you're using Spawn, a squad of CSM doing the exact same thing would do it better.

Yeah...do you not see the sense of humor showing up in the wording? It wasn't written in any way that should have been viewed as serious, except by somebody with no sense of humor. So lighten up-I don't enjoy being accused of pride and immodesty over a joke that you took seriously. My other advice was quite good, and he said it helped him out, along with everyone else's.

And no, it's quite definitive that a squad of CSM cannot rush 19-24" up the field for a first turn charge to tie up a nasty shooter to keep it from firing- all for being 80 pts for a couple of T5 models. Bad? No. Situational? Yes. Now I AM being serious. See the difference? And I mentioned my lists are controversial and never gave a glowing review of spawn. I mentioned they had uses and listed one. But again, thanks for putting words in my mouth. It's always a delight.

I'm sorry I insulted you. I am rather humorless.

I do like this new discussion though. Spawn don't move 19-24". They move 2-24" with Rage. They roll 2 dice and pick the highest for movement: 33% chance for 6". Then Fleet, which has only a 17% chance for any outcome. Then they roll 2D6, pick the highest and double that, but they are only able to move that distance if it would let them reach their target.

If your opponent goes first, he gets the opportunity to choose what the Spawn will attempt to attack with his first movement phase. If he goes second, he does the same with his deployment.

Abaddon will personally wreck this unit as long as you dont roll any 1's for his attacks. He hits on 3's, gets +d6 attacks, and rerolls str 8 to wound. Each wound is equal to one dead nob which is equal to two wounds for combat resolution.

Abaddon is a power fist hitting at initiative with a billion attacks, he will strike first and your opponent wont have much to hit back with. Hell, this unit would be toast even if they initiated the assault.

DarkHound wrote:I'm sorry I insulted you. I am rather humorless.

I do like this new discussion though. Spawn don't move 19-24". They move 2-24" with Rage. They roll 2 dice and pick the highest for movement: 33% chance for 6". Then Fleet, which has only a 17% chance for any outcome. Then they roll 2D6, pick the highest and double that, but they are only able to move that distance if it would let them reach their target.

If your opponent goes first, he gets the opportunity to choose what the Spawn will attempt to attack with his first movement phase. If he goes second, he does the same with his deployment.

It's okay-not everyone gets my sense of humor right away. But we can be adults (if we must) and get along from here on out: some of the best friendships stem from those with no sense of humor and the quirky, goofy tag-along. Watson and Holmes, Chip and Dale, Kanluwen and HBMC, the Pink Ranger and the Green Ranger, respectively (guess which one you get to be ). In all seriousness though, thanks for the correction on the Spawn's Rage-I don't have the book with me on hand, and I've only run them a few times and forgot that part (at the time I used them, Rage made no difference). But the movement is still a bit different-I did forget SaP, but they are beasts and get to charge 12"-plenty of range combined with the Lash (x2, maybe), fleet and the first set of movement giving 14"-24" charge distance. They are definitely one of the weakest units in the codex, but can be a useful addition if used properly as a throw away unit, designed only to tie something up first/second turn. Against assault armies, they're worthless. Less than worthless even-a free killpoint. But a unit of 2 is 80 points, and if it can tie down a nasty shooting unit for a turn or steal a charge to a unit with a Chaplain for the PE, I'll take that 80pt throwaway. Definitely not a beginner's unit, and you were correct to suggest not to use them for beginners-my only point was that everything in that unit can find a use. I do stand by Noise Marines though with Sonic Blasters (even for beginners) backed up by Berzerkers. You can lay down a hail of shots, then have the second nastiest countering charge unit backing them up. And NMs aren't a slouch in CC either-high initiative, good attacks, yeah, I like em-combined with Berzerkers, they do have a place. I still find TSs weak (sadly), but all the other cult marines are good. Alright, typing is done. I must away

I run Noise Marines too. But to continue beating a dead horse, Spawn's assault range is also subject to SaP. They roll 2d6, pick the highest, then double it.

Spawn are like yo mamma jokes.

Your Spawna are so bad, that you hide your spawn models when you successfully cast gift of chaos.

Your Spawna are so dumb, everything in the daemon book gets a 5++ save and spawn still dont have a save.

Abbadon is actually a good idea. I will use it in larger games with zerkers or termies in LR.