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broodstar wrote:At my store there are: 2 Tyranid, 1 Ork, 2 Imperial Guard, 1 Tau, 1 Eldar (refuses to play me), 1 Space Wolf, 3 Grey Knights, 1 Blood Angel, 1 Black Templar, 1 Salamander (refuses to play me), 1 Ultra Marines, 1 Imperial fist, 1 Raven Guard, 3 Chaos Space Marines.

I've had a lot of practice in anti-space marine tactics, I know to go after heavy weapons teams first. The SW guy prefers to use living lightning over jaw and the GK, I've never really paid too much attention to their halberds as much as much as their s7 autocannons.

If they're only using heavy weapon squads (ie Devastators/Havocs) no wonder they aren't killing MCs. And they aren't brining decent lists. heavy weapons should be piled into those armies, on Razorbacks, on tanks, on dreadnoughts, in regular squads, etc.

And the Guard player should be ashamed of himself if he can't take down a few MCs turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tyranids, they're still my favorite army even with the current codex. But Tyranid MCs are not in any way tough.

I'd say Tesla Immortals. 24" S5 assault 2, spawns extra hits on a 6? And they are BS4 troops? Moving and shooting 24" twice is much better than 30" rapid fire. And all the extra hits from BS4 and the 6's put fire warriors to shame.

Gauss Flayer. The ability to glance any vehicle is beyond phenomenal.

warp fire is actually not a psychic power. It's the "gun" that toop pink horrors are "equipped" with

Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Actually my vote would be the Eldar Pathfinder sniper rifle. Those things are all sorts of nasty

Kevlar wrote:I'd say Tesla Immortals. 24" S5 assault 2, spawns extra hits on a 6? And they are BS4 troops? Moving and shooting 24" twice is much better than 30" rapid fire. And all the extra hits from BS4 and the 6's put fire warriors to shame.

Yup this. Its called the Tesla Carbine. Its all of the above but only Assault 1 and that is more than enough. According to math hammer you can pretty much count on a number of hits equal to the number of guys shooting thanks to the extra two hits you get when you roll a 6. The fact that they are S5 on a BS4, +3 sv model is just icing on the cake.

I'm impartial to the gauss flayer (im biased , i know ) but glancing a vehicle with the most basic gun... while this isn't 4th edition where it could destroy a vehicle, a small 5 man squad of warriors in rapid fire range can tie up a vehicle for the entire game

Still can vape vehicles, but not as well as the glory days (or should that be gory days ) of Necrogroovies.

Open topped vehicles can wreck from a glance, as my DE and Orks know only too well...

broodstar wrote:That was toward bmoleski, sorry you relied before me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sudojoe wrote:Does "warp fire" count as a weapon? 18' s4, ap4, assault 3

That's a psychic power, right? No, we're talking standard issue troop rifles.

No its not a psychic power. Its the Pink Horrors shooting attack... although tis not a rifle, so no it cant be used for this discussion... even tho it ROX

-Loki- wrote:

broodstar wrote:At my store there are: 2 Tyranid, 1 Ork, 2 Imperial Guard, 1 Tau, 1 Eldar (refuses to play me), 1 Space Wolf, 3 Grey Knights, 1 Blood Angel, 1 Black Templar, 1 Salamander (refuses to play me), 1 Ultra Marines, 1 Imperial fist, 1 Raven Guard, 3 Chaos Space Marines.

I've had a lot of practice in anti-space marine tactics, I know to go after heavy weapons teams first. The SW guy prefers to use living lightning over jaw and the GK, I've never really paid too much attention to their halberds as much as much as their s7 autocannons.

If they're only using heavy weapon squads (ie Devastators/Havocs) no wonder they aren't killing MCs. And they aren't brining decent lists. heavy weapons should be piled into those armies, on Razorbacks, on tanks, on dreadnoughts, in regular squads, etc.

And the Guard player should be ashamed of himself if he can't take down a few MCs turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, I like Tyranids, they're still my favorite army even with the current codex. But Tyranid MCs are not in any way tough.

Well they do, for example: the Ultra Marines guy brings a Captain, Chaplain (jump pack), Tacs (combat squaded with the heavy weapon up in a build and others in Razorbacks), Sternguard, Assaults, Devastators, and Predators. I think it's that his tactics suck, he does maximize kill lanes but I don't think he expects me to come THROUGH buildings.

I have a story of how random the game can be. The Imperial Fists guy does gun tower, he packs a piece of terrain with 75 marines (vary defensive player). I got my Trygon into his base with 3 wounds left, and he's shooting, signam Las missed missiles missed or didn't wound, the last wound was taken by his last shot (a bolt pistol). This happened quite a few times actually. Weird things happen in the game, he had a Sergeant kill the Swarmlord yet hit Captain was kill by a Tyrannofex in CC.

Crudduce writes codexes that are powerful in the hands of the right person, Crudduce also wrote IG. Tyranids were OP in the last codex, they aren't broken they have been balanced.

2004 in World of Warcraft the rogue class was stupidly OP (I mean walking up to a guy in heavy armor and one shoting him), in 2005 every other got buffed to bring them up even with the rogue. Rogues only saw that they had a harder time killing someone else, because rogues were so OP no one bothered to "learn they're class". The people that played rogues didn't see it as everyone else being balanced to them, they only saw that they were broken, and now that to have a little more skill to beat someone else.

Why did I tell you that fable? Learn to hunt now, for when Matt Ward (Ward writes codexes that are popularly considered to be OP) gets the Tyranid contract, not only will you be able to own those other armies that stay with their army but laugh at the ones that jump from army to army following Ward.

broodstar wrote: when Matt Ward (Ward writes codexes that are popularly considered to be OP) gets the Tyranid contract, not only will you be able to own those other armies that stay with their army but laugh at the ones that jump from army to army following Ward.

Oh sweet monkey cakes please don't say things like "Mat Ward" and "Tyranids" in the same sentence!!! (unless it's <--that sentence)

Lasgun, not just for reliability, or ammo considerations or logistical support but because in the fluff you can mod/dial up the power on them, burns through more charge, but you live longer to need to recharge it.

Seriously in 40k fluff some lasguns have more destructive output then a bolter round... makes you wonder where the IG codex are hiding them....

Ascalam wrote:Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Woah, woah, woah! Da big shootas ar' clearly betta cos dem's bigga AND orkier!(I only see orks shooting them 1 handed, though, so still a pistol. Maybe snazzguns?)

-cgmckenzie

I'm surprised Splinter Rifle's havent had a mention yet. The same range/AP/type as a Boltgun but can wound anything on a 4+ regardless of toughness. Obviously it's slightly less effective VS T3, but against T4 its identical and as the targets toughness increases it just gets better and better.

cgmckenzie wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Shoota

Its da best cos it's orkier dan da uvvers

Woah, woah, woah! Da big shootas ar' clearly betta cos dem's bigga AND orkier!(I only see orks shooting them 1 handed, though, so still a pistol. Maybe snazzguns?)

-cgmckenzie

If i could take snazzgunz as basic troop guns i would

I assumed that the poll as talking about basic guns on basic troops, not upgrades/heavy support options

If those are allowed then it would have to be the beerkeg Heavy Plasma Gunz the RT ork set had, (just for awesomesauce value) or a SAG

A Sternguard bolter with special ammunition.

I'd say Guass Immortals standard firearm: Guass Blaster. S5 AP4 Rapid fire, Auto-glance on a 6 on a T5 3+/5+++(4+++ w/ rezorb) guy? Come at my gun line Nobs! (Ork Nobs)

broodstar wrote:That's a good one, is the Stormbolter a standard issue to any troops in any codex?

Well if we want to get technical, the wouldn't be a rifle as much as a CQB.

Terminators are considered troops in a couple of codecies... does that count?

Fluff: Lasgun
Game: Pulse Rifle

Fluff:
Human - Lasgun
Alien - Gauss Flayer

Game: Pulse Rifle or Gauss Flayer

Pulse Rifle in game terms, hands down.

Either:
A. The Guass Blasters S5 AP4 Rapid fire guass

OR

Warpfire on Pink Horrors (not a rifle, but ehhhh)
S4 AP4 Assault 3

The Gauss blaster is infinitely better a gun on basic troops than the gauss flayer. It gains 1 str and 1 AP value. So in terms of the gun itself it is the better of the two. The only reason why guass flayers are nice is because they are much cheaper to field as they are on a much cheaper troop choice.

Really, these are the top 3 rifles. (In no particular order)

Tau Pulse Rifle. Str 5 Ap 5 with a 30 inch range and can rapid fire. Its biggest weakness isn't in the gun itself but in the troop that carries it. However you can get those troops BS4 with the use of a marker light.

Necron Gauss Blaster. Str 5 AP 4 but 24 inches compared to the pulse rifles 30 inches AP5. I would give the edge slightly to the tau, since their range is better than an AP value that still doesn't effect marines. That is until the Gauss special rule comes into play. The ability of a basic rifle to glance a vehicle to death is a huge edge over the competition.

The last of the top 3 and honestly its here on a technicality is the Grey Knight Storm bolter. In other books the weapon is considered strong enough to be a special weapon. But the GKs field them instead of the usual marine weaponry. Str 4 Ap 5 assault 2 24inch range. Unlike the other weapons which require you to hold still unless you are rapid firing, you have a much further mobility range. Effectively giving your unit a 30 inch range to match the tau but you get twice as many shots.

The only other gun that even comes close to "top 3" material is the dark eldar splinter rifle. So lets give it an honorable mention. With no str value but always wounding on a 4+ the rifle can kill monstrous creatures just as easily as marines. The downside is of course is it makes killing smaller targets just as hard as killing anything else.

Fluff wise: the humble Lasgun. You can drop it, beat something to a pulp with it, a truck can run over it and it still works. plus its ammo is nigh infinite, just put it in a hot place and it recharges the cell.

game wise: i havn't seen all "standard issue weapons" in action enough to say.

On the tabletop? The Pulse Rifle. It can knock a lot of infantry flat on it's rear at long range, plus it's rapid fire I believe.

Fluff wise, I will go with the Lasgun. Easy to repair, cheap, nigh infinite ammo, durable, reliable and common. The only down side is it's relatively low power, but I believe it can penetrate Power Armor if aimed well. And with a scope mounted standard and low recoil, it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to hit the right spots.

It's the lasgun.

I've had a gun jam on me in a tense situation, and I've had "dead man's click" many times... Out of all the weapons of 40k, the lasgun would make the best standard issue rifle IRL.

Would have to go with the Lasgun as well for fluff reasons its just very sturdy and it is adaptable.

If one defines 'standard rifle' as default ranged weapon on a baseline-Troops choice, I'd have to say Storm Bolters since those troops choices that have them can also make them Str5.
If one defines it as the ranged weapon issued to regular line troops, (IE, not the Chamber Militant of an Ordo Majoris), pulse rifle. Let that stand as a testament as to how gakky the guys carrying pulse rifles turn out in practice.

I'm going to say the Pulse Rifle. It can take down light armor, wound Space Marines on a 3+, and it's the standard/only weapon for the baseline troops. So it doesn't get the back up of special weapons in the squad. I hate that there isn't much fluff for how reliable Tau weaponry is compared to the IG. I know you can rub the battery pack against your neckbeard and your virgin will rub off on it and give the battery an electron boner (Kidding... kinda) but that doesn't make the Pulse Rifle less reliable. I'm not aware of it breaking all the time in the fluff.

If people are going to bring up Fluff then I want to bring up it's stats in the Rogue Trader game. where a Lasgun will give you 1D10+3 damage at Pen3, the Pulse Rifle does 2D10+4 at Pen 5 (I believe I've got the numbers right.), can fire much farther than the lasgun without penelty, and can fire 4 times faster than the lasgun.

Pulse Rifle also got some gyroscopic techie stuff to make the aim steadier (and firewarriors are still bs 3 with that? what are they, orks?)