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redkommando wrote:Having a repeat of Sanguinius' mutation within the Blood Angels

What, like in the Blood Angels Omnibus?

And back OT, as much as I don't like Ultramarines, this Heretical, Traitorous alliance with the Tau might just completely ruin them for me. Not Ultramarines in specific, but SM in general I mean. As much as I would like some fluff to back up the SM/Tau Battle Brothers thing, that fluff would probably ruin SM for me.

DMajiko wrote:

redkommando wrote:Having a repeat of Sanguinius' mutation within the Blood Angels

What, like in the Blood Angels Omnibus?

But that was chaos influence of a corrupted inquisitor, so it doesn't count

For the Blood Angels, I fear two things:

1) More examples of ignoring the effects of the Black Rage. Mephiston is cool as a unique one-off, and is very special both on and off the battlefield for it. Lemartes, though... his fluff just doesn't sit right with me. If there were any more I'd have to take a long hard look at my regular Death Company and wonder if they just needed to man up a little.
2) Anything that leans more towards Fantasy's Vampires style-wise. I was worried about the way Astorath turned out looking, but luckily it looks to have stopped with him so far.

And on another note... one of the cooler parts of Blood Angel fluff I was disappointed to see missing from the latest Codex. Their ages-old quest for revenge on the Black Legion. This was mentioned a few times in 2nd and 3rd edition but now, it's like it never happened. Their Primarch killed our Primarch and (indirectly) caused our one major flaw, for crying out loud!

Tyranids: Multiple seperate have minds like the zerg...

Chaos: Making them a broken faction of renegades and space pirates... wait... damn

Necrons: They stop writing fluff about the C'tan having an influence on the galaxy (The Deciever was one of my favorite characters in 40k)

Corax never cried, he had piece of Istvaan in the eye....

Having our Primarch fall to Chaos because of a talking sword, how silly does that sound ... oh, wait ..

For the Templars they would be ruined if they were rolled into the Codex Space Marines and were forced to be stuck with bolters...damn bolters....

Pilau Rice wrote:Having our Primarch fall to Chaos because of a talking sword, how silly does that sound ... oh, wait ..

Well the One ring corrupting Isildur didn’t sound too silly in my ears. Me thinks Graham tried to do the same with Fulgrim.

Judging by the fluff in the back of the new rule book, the Chaos fluff seems to be largely unchanged, I'd be really surprised if they get screwed up (fluff-wise at least).

DE aren't going to get re-written for another decade at least, so they'll be in a good place for a while

My only fear is for Eldar, and it's not a problem with their book so much as its an issue with the Imperial books/dex's. The Eldar always used to be (and should always be IMO) the greatest psykers bar none (I might let the Emperor off, but no one else). In their constant attempt to keep making Marines look super cool they are inflating some characters psychic powers to a level that makes then totally eclipse the Eldar, And that takes away from their special-nuss in my eyes.

Buttons wrote:So, I was posting on a largely unrelated thread and mentioned that I couldn't think of how a writer could truly ruin the fluff behind the Imperial Guard. Make them incompetent? Hell 80% of the Guard is already portrayed that way. Make them the best individual soldiers in the galaxy? The other 20% are already like that (Cadians are just below marines, Catachans are the best jungle fighters etc.)

Anyway, what changes to the fluff of your faction could you think of that would ruin it for you?

Make the guard walking rambos.

Turn the eldar into spazz marienz hurr!

Redcruisair wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Having our Primarch fall to Chaos because of a talking sword, how silly does that sound ... oh, wait ..

Well the One ring corrupting Isildur didn’t sound too silly in my ears. Me thinks Graham tried to do the same with Fulgrim.

And failed.

Gorechild wrote:My only fear is for Eldar, and it's not a problem with their book so much as its an issue with the Imperial books/dex's. The Eldar always used to be (and should always be IMO) the greatest psykers bar none (I might let the Emperor off, but no one else). In their constant attempt to keep making Marines look super cool they are inflating some characters psychic powers to a level that makes then totally eclipse the Eldar, And that takes away from their special-nuss in my eyes.

Right here, I agree with all of this.

I also think Necrons got ruined. I was drawn into 40k because of the mindless, merciless soulless that the oldcrons were. No alliances, no honour no emotions, just the slaying of every living thing in the galaxy.

I used to like necrons;

Aaaaaaand it's gone.

There are many dynasties that are still mindless, soulless Necrons. All of the Dynasties lead by Destroyer Lords are exactly this, and are entirely in keeping with the Oldcrons.

... until the new Destroyer Lord models are released at least.

Well, to change Destroyer Lord fluff, they'd need to go back and change their entry in the current Necron Codex, too, not just release some models.

Even other Necrons find the Destroyers freakin' scary.

Super Ready wrote:For the Blood Angels, I fear two things:

1) More examples of ignoring the effects of the Black Rage. Mephiston is cool as a unique one-off, and is very special both on and off the battlefield for it. Lemartes, though... his fluff just doesn't sit right with me. If there were any more I'd have to take a long hard look at my regular Death Company and wonder if they just needed to man up a little.
2) Anything that leans more towards Fantasy's Vampires style-wise. I was worried about the way Astorath turned out looking, but luckily it looks to have stopped with him so far.

And on another note... one of the cooler parts of Blood Angel fluff I was disappointed to see missing from the latest Codex. Their ages-old quest for revenge on the Black Legion. This was mentioned a few times in 2nd and 3rd edition but now, it's like it never happened. Their Primarch killed our Primarch and (indirectly) caused our one major flaw, for crying out loud!

I couldn't agree more, it was kind of disheartening to see that was missing the the codex.
And in the older codexs, Lemates wasn't afflicted by the Black Rage was he?
And Astrorath is too fantasy like, I mean my best mate uses the model for his Vampire Lord

Describing Chaos Space Marines as a broken faction of pirates and raiders that aren't actually much more experienced or superior to regular Space Marines.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a second....

The 2 lost SM Primarchs show up, turn out to be women and want to unite the galaxy with hugs

The Emperor reincarnates as a woman.

Might make a better go of it, that way. Emperor MK 1 was a sucky parent

Ascalam wrote:The Emperor reincarnates as a woman.

Might make a better go of it, that way. Emperor MK 1 was a sucky parent

Some motherly instincts should help a bit.

LoneLictor wrote:Describing Chaos Space Marines as a broken faction of pirates and raiders that aren't actually much more experienced or superior to regular Space Marines.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a second....

Not sure which side you are supporting?

Buttons wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:Describing Chaos Space Marines as a broken faction of pirates and raiders that aren't actually much more experienced or superior to regular Space Marines.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a second....

Not sure which side you are supporting?

I am saying that Chaos Space Marines were pretty fethed up fluff wise as a faction.

Space Marines: 10 feet tall
Female Space Marines: 12 feet tall
Chaos Space Marines: 14 feet tall
Grey Knights: 16 feet tall
Chaos Grey Knights: 17 feet tall
Female Chaos Grey Knights: 20 feet tall
That seems about right...

purplefood wrote:Space Marines: 10 feet tall
Female Space Marines: 12 feet tall
Chaos Space Marines: 14 feet tall
Grey Knights: 16 feet tall
Chaos Grey Knights: 17 feet tall
Female Chaos Grey Knights: 20 feet tall
That seems about right...

Primarch: 24 feet tall
Female Primarch: 28 feet tall
Chaos Primarch: 30 feet tall
Female Chaos Primarch: 34 feet tall
Emperor: 40 feet tall
Female Emperor (wouldn't that be Empress?): 45 feet tall
Chaos Emperor: 50 feet tall
Female Chaos Empress: 60 feet tall.

Buttons wrote:

purplefood wrote:Space Marines: 10 feet tall
Female Space Marines: 12 feet tall
Chaos Space Marines: 14 feet tall
Grey Knights: 16 feet tall
Chaos Grey Knights: 17 feet tall
Female Chaos Grey Knights: 20 feet tall
That seems about right...

Primarch: 24 feet tall
Female Primarch: 28 feet tall
Chaos Primarch: 30 feet tall
Female Chaos Primarch: 34 feet tall
Emperor: 40 feet tall
Female Emperor (wouldn't that be Empress?): 45 feet tall
Chaos Emperor: 50 feet tall
Female Chaos Empress: 60 feet tall.

Squat Chaos Empress: Titan high

You broke my joke...

purplefood wrote:You broke my joke...

Mission accomplished, my job is done here.



Back on topic, IG is my favorite faction, and its kinda hard to screw it up. That said just do this

I'm gonna go a little all-out on this one - how to make it better and worse (imho/ymmv)!

Black Templar
Why they're cool: They're a bunch of hardcore puritan zealots.
Better: I dunno, they're pretty awesome as they are.
Worse: Turn them into hypocrites. I can actually see this happening if someone with an anti-religion bias takes over the fluff-writing, but imho the Black Templar are meant to be single-mindedly adherents to their faith.

Blood Angels
Why they're cool: Sanguinius was pretty badass admittedly, and their emphasis on assault and speed is cool.
Better: Imho, the Blood Angels need a bit more character. Maybe some sort of divide in the chapter and/or successors regarding those who suffer from the Black Rage - some defend them whereas others believe they should be executed immediately. Not sure what I really think about that, but it's an idea anyway (and would open up some new list-making opportunities).
Worse: Play up the "flawless" aspects of the Blood Angels, making them a bunch of even more androgynous pretty boys who are super-special at everything. Start calling every piece of equipment "Blood _____" or "_____ of Blood", etc.

Chaos Daemons
Why they're cool: They're freaking extra-dimensional horrors!
Better: As it is, they don't really seem like that much of a threat to be honest. "Oh no, daemons might attack this world temporarily!" They need some more suitably grim-dark menace to make them seem like a real and terrifying threat (especially considering they are probably the most evil race in the entire game). They should be able to arrive from enemy psykers who suffer a perils of the warp attack (or make it an option instead of a normal perils attack).
Worse: Turn them into cartoonishly evil, mindless monsters.

Chaos Space Marines
Why they're cool: They're Space Marines, only with lots of cool evil toys.
Better: The Legions need to have their flaws played up as if 40k were a Shakespearean tragedy (eg, Thousand Sons need to be more inherently arrogant), and they need to be more of a terrifying foe (eg, successful Black Crusades).
Worse: Make them super-mopey, prone to incessant in-fighting and lose constantly.

Dark Angels
Why they're cool: They... uh... get lots of Terminators. That's cool. Heck, the Fallen are cooler than the Dark Angels themselves.
Better: They need some more differentiating. Not entirely sure how that should be done...
Worse: ...but if they play up the "Lion" angle, that would be the wrong way to do it. Also, making them justifiably arrogant would be dumb.

Dark Eldar
Why they're cool: They're sadistic, manipulative S&M space elves... that sounds really stupid, but it's awesome in execution.
Better: Hard to say. Personally, I think that Dark Eldar have great fluff currently. I'd maybe play up their mercenary aspects and make their raids seem more threatening, but as they stand they're pretty awesome.
Worse: Turn Dark Eldar into a bunch of moustache-twirling, cackling cartoon villains.

Eldar
Why they're cool: They're psychically powered space elves with a cool caste-like system.
Better: They've been nerfed, fluff-wise. Avatars are a joke, Craftworlds get destroyed every weekend and Farseers are not much more than a plot-device to make bad things happen to the interloping human characters. They need to get back their technological and psychic dominance from humanity (Necrons are justifiably more advanced), whilst playing up their dying race aspect in the process.
Worse: Make it so that they aren't going to die out inevitably. Also, continuing to nerf them in the fluff to the point of obsolescence.

Grey Knights
Why they're cool: They're the elitest of the elite in humanity's armies.
Better: They got pretty derpy in their last Codex... the Grey Knights themselves need to become more rare, acting as tools of Inquisitors. Making them like a super-special Space Marine chapter gets rid of a lot of their mysterious essence.
Worse: Make them all live in the warp with Draigo and launch attacks on the daemons while inside their warp-fortress... Or, at the very least, make all their fluff as cringe-inducing as the 2 pages about Draigo.

Imperial Guard
Why they're cool: They're the expendables, backed up by huge guns.
Better: Guard have pretty awesome fluff as it is. Commanders could perhaps be a bit more colourful though.
Worse: Make them incompetent to the point of redundancy perhaps? I really don't know how you could screw up the Guard.

Necrons
Why they're cool: Space Terminator-mummies.
Better: I personally like their new fluff (before they were just Tyranids with armour plating), but it is far too cartoonish and they lost a lot of their old menace. Maybe get rid of some of the silly aspects of the new Necrons (that map that can blow up solar systems, all of Imhotek's dialogue, Flayed One plague, etc), and make them more evil. Easiest way to do this - make them jealous of the races with flesh-and-blood bodies and/or harvest people for the C'tan again. Retain the new personality of the Necrons though.
Worse: Go back to the old fluff. Yay for flavourless Tyranid rip-off robots.

Orks
Why they're cool: They're hilarious warmongering aliens.
Better: They're already awesome.
Worse: Ditch their humour entirely. That would be crippling. To knock them down even more, make it so they will ally with any race willingly and happily.

Sisters of Battle
Why they're cool: They're nuns with guns!
Better: Sisters revolve entirely around their faith. I'd play up the "Chaos Sisters" element a bit more, but mostly to remind people that it is technically possible (not to make it a common occurrence in the fluff or anything like that).
Worse: See Black Templar entry.

Space Marines
Why they're cool: They're the easy middle-ground army.
Better: Ultramarines are so bland that it hurts. As the poster-boys, they get all of the adaptations as well (the Ultramarines movie, Space Marine game, etc). In my opinion, the blandness of the Ultramarines hurts these products - they're so inherently generic that they reflect poorly on the fantastic 40k universe itself. Ultramarines need some flavour severely. Bring back Tyrannic War Veterans, make their dogmatic adherence to the Codex more explicit (and with greater consequence) in the fluff, make them force the Codex Astartes onto other chapters (opening up Marine on Marine conflict of interest), etc. Anything is better than "boring".
Worse: Make every Space Marine wish they were boring like the Ultramarines.

Space Wolves
Why they're cool: Freaking space-viking-werewolves. That's ing awesome.
Better: Take them back to their viking roots and play up individual heroism/sagas, whilst balancing the werewolf aspect without making it overbearing. Change Canis Wolfborn's name so that people will finally shut up about Wolfy McWolferson bull when they make fun of the Wolves. And make the 13th company more present in the fluff.
Worse: Take some of the stupid bits of fluff (like boarding a void whale and blowing it up) and making all of it like that. Making Wolfy McWolferson the Thunderwolf Rider an actual character.

Tau Empire
Why they're cool: They're a young race with technological superiority.
Better: Honestly, I think the Tau would be better with the rumours of genocide/sterilization.
Worse: Make the manga aspects more explicit by drawing inspiration from more sources. Super Sayan Ethereals anyone?

Tyranids
Why they're cool: They're a swarm of bugs destined to consume everyone.
Better: Personally I don't have a problem with Cruddace's additions to the Nid fluff (burning out from lack of food), as it makes them less over-powered than they previously were. But you know how to make the 40k universe even more frightening? Go with the theories - actually suggest that the Hive Fleets are running away from something... something big.
Worse: Give the Tyranids an actual weakness. Sure it makes them less retardedly overpowered, but it doesn't fit with a grimdark universe.

How to ruin the Tau

Step 1: Ethereals are a manufactured puppet race controlled by the Eldar.
Step 2: everything awesome Farsight did was because the sword has tainted him and linked him to Chaos.
Step 3: Add more useless subjugated races, while leaving the Tau military a giant 1 trick pony (rail gunz!)

I always thought of Farsight's blade as either Necron or Old One tech, not anything chaos

If they cut the size of the Black Templars from 5-6 thousand templars to codex chapter size. That...would be one of the worst things they could do. Oh and give them a home world...that would be horrible too.