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I like that paint scheme...I might be lifting that for my traitor guard.

Very nice conversions, I like the greenstuff work for the additional rags and clothing and if you have any tips on how to do that I'd like to hear them.

The major change we have made is throwing the typical 40k 2ed turn out the window and replaced it with the Easy Eight turn. Instead of taking turns and moving your whole army at the same time, each unit (character, squad, vehicle tec) has a card assigned to it. All of these cards are then drawn randomly and each unit moves, fires and everything when their card comes up then the next card/unit until all have been played. Overwatch and stuff like that is played out between these turns in a "special fire phase". A hole different game, but a marine still has WS4BS4 and a boltgun still has str4 and so forth. Squad coherency is now half the units LD value rounded up. This gives the squads more realistic formations. All weapons have unlimited range (except melta weapons and pistols) but suffers -1 tohit modifier for each time they double their original range. So you can fire across the table with a bolt gun in theory, but practically it will be impossible to hit anything unless you are a really good shooter. We find this to give much more realistic distances of contact.

This is interesting. Changing from turn based to activation based is what they have done with classic Epic rules and it's something I have thought about doing with Necromunda (which also uses 2nd ed. 40k rules mainly). Using cards to determine the order of activation sounds like it adds quite a lot of random luck though, did you try just letting people pick what to activate?

The range thing is also something I have heard of being used in Necro although not tried it myself. We do something similar with armour saves - we let people make a 7+ armour save roll by rolling a 6 followed by a 4+. So you can always get a save it's just extremely unlikely sometimes.

The IED concept seems very interesting as scenario rules to work in tandem with the chaos cultists in the Dark Vengeance set as they are, effectively, insurgents. Alot of the fluff actually comes off as similar to an insurgency rather than an actual cohesive military force, at least until the CSM really get involved or the locals gain enough momentum, materiel & weapons to stage a rebellion proper.

So, if I may, would you mind sharing those rules? I'd be interested to try & write it into a scenario for our local 40K group.

Additionally, I don't see how having ratmen desert insurgents wearing pretty typical desert Bedouin attire is derogatory when they could just as easily be counts-as Tallarn desert raiders or even Fremen (who, I might add are much more a mirror of Muslim insurgents). Further, the concept of taking offense for someone else confuses me. I honestly don't see how the concept of racially profiling Soviets as Klingons, Chinese as Romulans, the United Federation of Planets as the UN & the Japanese as Vulcans (allies of the UN but stoic & emotionless on the outside) is any less "offensive". And, tbh, the OP doesn't seem to be stereotyping Muslims, or Afghans as ratmen but rather likening the sneaky tactics of Skaven who employ (in fantasy) lots of assassins, & indirectly manipulate & dodge direct fights until they're forced to, then often preferring ambush style tactics rather than regimented battle (especially in Mordheim which is alot like this). Personally, I don't have a problem with the ratmen in space when the Hrud have already been mentioned in the fluff & look remarkably similar to the snipers.

I get Yodhrin's point and respect it, even if I personally don't see see it that way (kinda wierd if i did?),

About the activation based turn:
We find the uncertainty about the total randomness both funny and a not too unrealistic X-factor to the tactical planning. Somewhere in the past we have tried the system of taking turns in activating unit of our own choosing. Of course there's another level of decision making witch definitely can be interesting.

Above all this system improves the social aspects of wargaming since all players are more directly involved in the game all of the time, instead of one side of players taking ages to move and shoot with their entire army, while the other side yawns and rolls armorsaves.

About the IED's:
These are symbolized by a marker (flamed, overwatch, jam and such) placed on the battlefield. Then they are photographed with a phone or a digital camera and then removed again. All of this of course away from the enemy player's eyes. The larger type of IED is equal to a blast from a battle cannon (2" blast str8 -3save) and is automatically triggered if a vehicle drives over it or activated by the bomb maker when his card comes up. To trigger the IED manually the bomb maker or a spotter needs LOS to if not the bomb itself, but at least the site of the bomb. Of course he can be put on overwatch with the bomb remote. The large IED can no be spotted by a vehicle, but any dismounted troops will automatically detect any large IED's within 6".
Small antipersonnel bombs are equal to a frag missile (2" blast str4 -1save). We have't used these until very lately. These are spotted within the initiative value in inches with a successful roll under the initiative. We have chosen to restrict these boobytraps to narrow passages and doorways and the like. The enemy player will need to express a wish to search a specific area before rolling against initiative. For example: "I search this door for boobytraps". So if he forgets to even look no initiative value in the world will save him from the blast.

The results are that a cautious player will most likely find all of the IED's in his path but this will make him slow and often vulnerable to enemy fire.

A game master will really simplify the use of hidden/blind deployment of bombs and troops, but with a phone with a decent camera you can come a long way.

Hi, I like the look of those marines you got there. Could I get some close ups of them?

Perhaps not all close up's but nevertheless:


Good old Rogue Trader marines. This devastator combat squad was the first of this army.


Close quarter battle with kroot that time.


A combat squad clearing a compound. A different but similar gaming table at another location.

The "KIL" marking on the left shoulder pad is supposed to something similar to the "G" marking Guderian's troops used to paint on their equipment. A sort of symbol of degenerate veterans at the same time a improvised symbol of unit pride at a troop level. What exactly KIL stands for is at this point a bit vague. Perhaps after a CO Gen. Kilgore? Just something I painted on the first marine and then kept going.

Thank you, those marines look really great.

Keep it up.

Loving the marines and the skaven!
so your gonna use ork rules for them?

Holy gak this army is awesome.

So, what's the fluff behind them?

Very nice looking skaven

skimutis - Cheers for that. I am really taken with the terrain (as well as the mini's). I really hope your friend starts a terrain thread and that I don't miss it.

The marines are a nice colour and I like the head scarf.

I love the rats and the concept...it is 40k, set in space on a desert world....no need to RL comparisons imo. Besides from the look of it the terrain came first and the miniatures are fitting in with that nicely.

My new favourite thread.

Great work. really like the Skaven and the marines.

Wonderful terrrain.

I like the card based concept, used to play Battle Masters when I was younger, that game was a blast and worked a lot like that. You had a deck of cards, each card hard a mix or single unit, that uit got to go when the card was pulled. Sometimes you got nine moves in a row, others you didn't. Made the game exciting.

Have you seen the Mantic space ratmen?

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Veer-myn.html



Keep up the good work.

this is a beautiful concept, form and execution of the ideas presented. I really like the 40k skaven and the feeling of the battles. Very modern while having a sci fi element to it. I cant wait for your next update

these are great!!!! if you ever decide to do a full blown army of desert rats it might sit perfectly with SM scouts army.

The Space marines them selves have an awsome theme and paint job to them aswell.

Thanks again guys. All these comments really makes a difference.

The fluff behind these rats:
I really don't the ambition to write a novel covering the background for them, but some basic points are clear to me. They are not evil, like chaos evil or anything like that, but just in more or less constant friction with the Imperial settlers. Their mythology is based around the centuries of human oppression and around famous resisting warbands. The black fur has a particular significance and is believed originally to be a gift and a sign of recognition from the gods for being virtues and true warriors during some religiously significant campaign . So at present day black-furred clans belong to a privileged caste of the society due to the believed bloodline back to the "original warriors".

They don't travel in space and have no ambitions beyond their native dust pile of a planet. The imperial infrastructure on the planet has collapsed due to a massive increase in insurgent operations, and the marines are there on some salvage mission to save the settlers, wipe the skaven of the face of the planet and so that the infrastructure can be rebuilt.

So perhaps there is room for some imperial settlers militia? But first complete the skaven army to a decent size of course.

Great looking everything! Skaven are sculpted perfectly and the paintjob on the marines is stunning. Keep it up!

I actually need your help with something.

I've tried to model the warlord several times, but when i'm done it's just not feeling like warlord if you know what I mean?
What visual characteristics would constitute a 40k skaven warlord? I'm not looking for a ogre-sized killing machine on his own with an assault cannon in each hand, but rather a low key actual commander.
I'm thinking some luxurious looted piece of equipment perhaps?

Perhapes a superpimped bling bling wheelchair (with driver) or half laying on the back of a scooter or rik sha.

If this was orks, I'd say just make him bigger, but alas we are not operating on simple ork logik!
Any warlord would be better equipped, as he probably gets first dibs on any of the loot. As such, he should have armor and maybe cleaner rags. I'd equip him similar to a SM sergeant. A power weapon and maybe a plasma pistol.
Or instead of better equipment, you could denote him by having a distinct fur-color.
A striking red-haired rat would definately stand out from the crowd (and also make for a lot of ginger jokes).
Either way you do it, I think this might be a good model to start from: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440022a&prodId=prod1160065a&rootCatGameStyle=

 skimutis wrote:
I actually need your help with something.

I've tried to model the warlord several times, but when i'm done it's just not feeling like warlord if you know what I mean?
What visual characteristics would constitute a 40k skaven warlord? I'm not looking for a ogre-sized killing machine on his own with an assault cannon in each hand, but rather a low key actual commander.
I'm thinking some luxurious looted piece of equipment perhaps?

Here's the Visual Characteristics that I would like to see:
Bigger - I don't think you have to do ogre sized, but 10-20% bigger helps say "The Boss" with non-humans IMHO
Higher - Give him something sweet to stand on. Hight helps give him that authoratative look
Gear - Not just one luxurious piece, but overall better gear.

Can't wait to see what you whip up!
Rawson

Cool minis! Your GS attire is great. It adds great story like element to the models. Might I suggest using some of the fantasy dwarf pouches and bottles for the 40K skaven. (sans the dwarf symbols, of course)

I think the Ikit Claw model would make a good warlord
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440022a&prodId=prod1070007a&rootCatGameStyle=

Does the warlord have to be gun toting? Couldn't the leader be more of a mastermind, surveying from a distance. Thinking about it i see the brief scene of John Connor in terminator 2, watching a battle thru binoculars with a notibly scarred face. How about giving him some kind of scarring or amputed limb to show him as a grizzled old veteren who maybe leaves the up close and personnel fighting to his men, but who we all know can look after himself when the time comes? Maybe holding a telescope. Other than that perhaps he could be placed on a 40mm base with one or two assistants, possibly with one on a radio.

 Axlbush wrote:
Does the warlord have to be gun toting? Couldn't the leader be more of a mastermind, surveying from a distance.

This sounds like a good idea to me. My favourite general models are often not the ones with the heaviest weapons or strongest build but a tall and almost thoughtful model. For example I love the Imotekh the Stormlord model, Captain Sicarius and the old metal Daemon Prince for the CSM but I hate the look the Space Marine captain kit forces you to build a commander.

A Skaven model that's pointing and at ease would, I think, look mighty effective. One more dynamic could be one pointing his weapon at the enemy. I think he should be equipped with a sword or mace with a pistol in his other hand.

looking good, especially the clothing.
I like the dessert look you gave the skaven, it fits them well.

Sweeeeeet! I so much love scaven and those look nicely 40kish. Keep up!

I always found this miniature to have an air of authority. Sorry about the size.



Advising, directing and leading (from the back) but still armed to the teeth is how I see skaven leaders. You need to show the rats who is in charge with the best equipment and good range.

Thanks for all advice guys! Thinking about a fat ratboss or an old scrawny one?

Anyhow, here's some work in progress:


A first flamer for the second insurgent unit focused on close quarters.


A radio operator. Mainly meant to be the spotter/observer for a mortar battery, but may find many uses I guess.



A mortar with one crew. Supposed to be three tubes forming a battery.

Sorry for the focus being a bit off.

Old scrawiny one

yeah, old scrawiny one will be best