Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Davylove21 wrote:
£15K a year for an entry level position in a company you may genuinely wish to move up in is a really, really good prospect for a lot of people. You'll have just shy of a thousand pounds a month in your pocket and if you can't live on that, you've got problems as a functioning member of society.
.

One must caveat this by pointing out in some areas -- London and the SE generally -- one would indeed struggle to get by on that sort of money.

Nottingham is, thankfully, a fairly cheap place to live in the UK. This is reflected in thnigs like house price and the like.

 Davylove21 wrote:
You'll have just shy of a thousand pounds a month in your pocket and if you can't live on that, you've got problems as a functioning member of society.

Please tell us that you are joking?

If you are living on your own, just shy of a thousand pounds is barely enough for rent (that alone takes away more than half your 1000,- but usually more, and you better hope that gas & water are inclusive), the bills for your phone/internet/tv and such, insurances, taxes, small necessary daily expenses added up, and food. You would be able to afford almost no luxury items at all (including new clothes/shoe, let alone GW miniatures ).

Or maybe in the UK everything is really cheap, and in that case I must move there asap

 TBD wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
You'll have just shy of a thousand pounds a month in your pocket and if you can't live on that, you've got problems as a functioning member of society.

Or maybe in the UK everything is really cheap, and in that case I must move there asap

If we look at Nottingham as an example, where most GW jobs are based, rents seem to be fairly low:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/Nottingham.html?sortByPriceDescending=false&maxBedrooms=1&displayPropertyType=flats&oldDisplayPropertyType=flats

So I think living there in a 1 bed flat or possible house sharing, you could manage on £14-15K; I think it would be a bit of a squeeze and you wouldn't have much left over for savings, recreation etc. but there you go.

Where I live in the South/South East of England, the crappiest of 1 bed flats will run you, say, £600 a month, so living on £14-15K would be difficult.

Where in south east do you live Filbert?

For a uni grad that is used to living in shared housing it is possible, and most will kill for 14-15k a year but mainly for getting a job.


Round essex it is as Filbert says, studio flats are 500 min in not very nice areas and houses are upwards of 1200 a month, to buy it is min of 150k for flats, 240k for houses but as we are just outside of london there is a huge south east tax on most things including food petrol etc, I was in nottingham the weekend and noticed the difference, small it maybe on a day to day basis but it adds up.

There are benefits of course for working for GW and some arent to be overlooked

MarkyMark wrote:
Where in south east do you live Filbert?

For a uni grad that is used to living in shared housing it is possible, and most will kill for 14-15k a year but mainly for getting a job.


Round essex it is as Filbert says, studio flats are 500 min in not very nice areas and houses are upwards of 1200 a month, to buy it is min of 150k for flats, 240k for houses but as we are just outside of london there is a huge south east tax on most things including food petrol etc, I was in nottingham the weekend and noticed the difference, small it maybe on a day to day basis but it adds up.

There are benefits of course for working for GW and some arent to be overlooked

I live in Basingstoke so am right on the very border of the 'London circle' in that the further east one ventures, the further house/rent prices rise. As I said earlier, I expect the majority of applicants for the GW jobs are likely to either still be living at home or in shared accommodation as it keeps the costs down.

 filbert wrote:

 TBD wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
You'll have just shy of a thousand pounds a month in your pocket and if you can't live on that, you've got problems as a functioning member of society.

Or maybe in the UK everything is really cheap, and in that case I must move there asap

If we look at Nottingham as an example, where most GW jobs are based, rents seem to be fairly low:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/Nottingham.html?sortByPriceDescending=false&maxBedrooms=1&displayPropertyType=flats&oldDisplayPropertyType=flats

So I think living there in a 1 bed flat or possible house sharing, you could manage on £14-15K; I think it would be a bit of a squeeze and you wouldn't have much left over for savings, recreation etc. but there you go.

Where I live in the South/South East of England, the crappiest of 1 bed flats will run you, say, £600 a month, so living on £14-15K would be difficult.

Yes of course there are cheap areas out there, but for most people who live anywhere near a city those prices aren't reality ( as you also indicate).

He wasn't even talking about 14/15K either, but about SHY of 1000,- a month (so less than 12000,- a year).

If you just finished your college/university/education/whatever and start working a 1 bedroom or house sharing is not what you want (because that is the kind of craparoo you just dealt with when you were a student). The prices in the link are about the regular rate for student rooms down here. Moving on from that you look at least at double that, probably the same as where you live.

I believe the 1K a month was after taxes etc etc.

You are right, he did say that.

Still it would be very tight. 15000 - 12000 = 3000 = 250 a month. Let's say that covers taxes + water/gas if that isn't included in the rent + maybe the phone/tv/internet bill. Maybe insurance fits in there too, but Idk. Probably not. You'd still have rent, so unless you are in one of those cheap places that's still 500 + food 150 (?) = 650. Small daily expenses easily add up to about 100 at least, so that leaves slightly around 250, but probably less, to have a hobby, go out occasionally and buy new clothes once in a while, etc. God forbid you own a car which needs gas and your hobby isGW

As someone who actually lives near nottingham (about 14 miles away), you can live VERY comfortable for £14k a year. Whinging Londoners.

 Testify wrote:
As someone who actually lives near nottingham (about 14 miles away), you can live VERY comfortable for £14k a year. Whinging Londoners.

Depends what your standard of 'living comfortably' is, I suppose.

And here I am in an apartment in southern California thinking any place you don't hear gunfire at night, or that doesn't have a 60 minute commute, would be lucky to have rent cheaper than what would equivalently be £1000/month, crying over my $1800/month rent.

My impression is that game company employees tend to be relatively badly paid overall, be they miniature makers or computer game designers. I know a few people here and there in the world that do that sort of work, and while they aren't exactly starving, they hardly make the same as other established commercial entity employees in their countries. This also seems to go for contract work artists; game companies aren't big spenders.

Lots of people want to make or contribute to games, it seems.

 TBD wrote:
You are right, he did say that.

Still it would be very tight. 15000 - 12000 = 3000 = 250 a month. Let's say that covers taxes + water/gas if that isn't included in the rent + maybe the phone/tv/internet bill. Maybe insurance fits in there too, but Idk. Probably not. You'd still have rent, so unless you are in one of those cheap places that's still 500 + food 150 (?) = 650. Small daily expenses easily add up to about 100 at least, so that leaves slightly around 250, but probably less, to have a hobby, go out occasionally and buy new clothes once in a while, etc. God forbid you own a car which needs gas and your hobby isGW

Lots of people would kill for £250 a month to spend on themselves.
You can survive easily in nottinham for 15K a year, i know people that house share on 12k, its a cheap place to live.

Mat Ward gets paid with the tears of whiny Draigo haters

 filbert wrote:

 Testify wrote:
As someone who actually lives near nottingham (about 14 miles away), you can live VERY comfortable for £14k a year. Whinging Londoners.

Depends what your standard of 'living comfortably' is, I suppose.

Thats true, we are all different.

For example, when I eat gak and drink booze, I feel awful. After I put some weight on during my last 3 week bender (vacation) in June (Budapest, Munich, Brussels if your remotely interested) I put myself on a diet when I got back, and I think for all of July I only got drunk twice.. (Two Saturdays when my will gave out!)

I ate no bread or carbs... feth all but a small bowl of porridge for breakfast, chicken breasts, beans, a few salad items and maybe two cartons of fruit juice and the occasional choccy bar, and I think for the whole month I spend about £70 on food and about £60 on booze on the two days in my local. All the rest of the time I was at the gym, reading, painting, playing video games.. doing anything to avoid the pub.

I was very very comfortable.

I don't know where I was going with this.. I think the point was that "comfortable" is very subjective indeed, because I feel strong, healthy and happy when I live Spartanly and spend feth all on niceties other than my gym membership.

When I'm on holiday and living like a millionaire, eat in restaurants, and booze 5-6 days a week, I tend to feel like committing suicide by the third week of the month.

If you know what's good for you, I suggest living like a monk. This is also linked to my argument for cutting wellfare in half. It can't be a coincidence that poor people are more likely to die young. Its because the fethers drink more, smoke more, and eat more pasties!

Living like a peasant is good for your mental and physical health, so "comfortable" can many times lead to "uncomfortable"

As a PhD student living in Cambridge and getting less than £15k a year I would say you can live well enough. In Cambridge that is definitely not enough to live on your own but I imagine if you are starting a career out of uni you will most likely be sharing anyway. And I also imagine Nottingham to be a lot cheaper than Cambridge. So in the end yes you can live well enough as long as you don't overspend too much. Booze can be quite expensive as well as eating out, but if you cook your own meals and try to save some money you can definitely live well with less than that.

 filbert wrote:

 Testify wrote:
As someone who actually lives near nottingham (about 14 miles away), you can live VERY comfortable for £14k a year. Whinging Londoners.

Depends what your standard of 'living comfortably' is, I suppose.

Well it works out at £270 a week. Allow £60 a week for rent, plus another 20 or 30 for bills, then another tenner for counsel taxes. Easily gives you over £100 a week for vices.

 Testify wrote:

 filbert wrote:

 Testify wrote:
As someone who actually lives near nottingham (about 14 miles away), you can live VERY comfortable for £14k a year. Whinging Londoners.

Depends what your standard of 'living comfortably' is, I suppose.

Well it works out at £270 a week. Allow £60 a week for rent, plus another 20 or 30 for bills, then another tenner for counsel taxes. Easily gives you over £100 a week for vices.

Or saving up for a rainy day.

.. £ 10 for counsel (sic) taxes ?!?!



Oh to be young again.

£60 a week for rent ain't happening in the professional sector..
Realistically you're looking at £300 a month for rent, assuming you share.
Then another £50-60 a month for council tax.
Another £100 for bills/phone/tv license/etc etc

So you've got between £400-500 a month to buy food, clothes, transport costs etc etc. Certainly survivable, but not luxurious by any stretch.

Ok let's look at this from a rough estimate of my current living status vs 15k a year (before tax)

Salary: 15,000 PA
Montly Income: 15,000/12= £1250
Let's take off our tax contributions at ~20% = £1000.

Monthly Outgoings:
Rent (3 bed house in fairly crappy S Wales area, probably 1 bed flat in nottingham): ~£400
Council Tax: ~£45 with 'Living Alone' Allowance (I pay £80 with 2 people sharing, and discount is about 50% IIRC)
Gas/Electric: ~£40 (20 on each, assuming £/kWh is similar to that of a token meter as you are renting)
TV License: £20
Internet (lets face it, you're not going to live without t'internet): £20 (phone, unlimited 20meg broadband, line rental)
And lets not be ignorant and remember you are going to be commuting to work, so that could be: ~£30 per week on petrol if driving, ~£50 per month on public transport assuming you live in nottingham on don't commute from outside the area

Single person council deduction is 25%.

Whilst I'm sure Nottingham/similar areas are cheaper with regards to this it can vary quite a bit.

I share a semi detahced house with 2 bedrooms and a box room/3rd bedroom and our bill is a shade over £1400 per annum.


....

 reds8n wrote:
.. £ 10 for counsel (sic) taxes ?!?!



Oh to be young again.

£60 a week for rent ain't happening in the professional sector..
Realistically you're looking at £300 a month for rent, assuming you share.
Then another £50-60 a month for council tax.
Another £100 for bills/phone/tv license/etc etc

So you've got between £400-500 a month to buy food, clothes, transport costs etc etc. Certainly survivable, but not luxurious by any stretch.

Hey look, £62 a week: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/18175468?search_identifier=c3def626df909f6bb0f28bac1cf1be93
£100 a month on bills if you're mad. Personally I never turn on the heating if I'm paying the bills, so that leaves what internet + phone contract? Plus a negligable amount for electricity and water.

I don't like this thread. I'm unemployed and poor and being told by people with well-paid full time jobs how awful it is, having well-paid full time jobs. .

From your link

"This new concept in student living "

That's why it's cheap and would also therefore be unavailable for a full time professional games designer.

"well paid full time job" .. yeah, I live in luxury.

The bottom line is, whatever your circumstances and whatever your definition of living comfortable is, £14-15K is not a particularly competitive wage - it's only a pound or so per hour better than minimum wage and that takes no account of overtime etc etc. You could earn a similar or better wage in pretty much any retail environment - I would hazard a guess and say stacking shelves at night in a supermarket would pay better than this.

However, as has already been explained, GW deliberately price their wage low to weed out the undesirables. More power to them; I'm sure they aren't short of applicants and I bet there are a number of people that are willing to take the punt on a year or so of low wages in expectation of moving up the totem pole in the future.

Man, things must be a TON different in the UK. Living by myself, I could not live on $1600 a month. Between Rent, Insurance, Gas, Student Loan payments, and Utilities, I don't think I'd have any money left for food.

 cincydooley wrote:
Man, things must be a TON different in the UK. Living by myself, I could not live on $1600 a month. Between Rent, Insurance, Gas, Student Loan payments, and Utilities, I don't think I'd have any money left for food.

Well things are always relative as saying you can live in the UK it's a bit broad. In London you wouldn't be able to live with that either, other parts of the UK you can, but it is definitely not near enough luxurious. Just to put things in perspectives the minimum wage in Portugal is €450 and there families with kids getting only that income a month. What you need to consider is that the salary is on the low level you can get around here. I was looking for jobs and serving tea in a University (3h/day) pays £14000/year. So that is just how bad things are if you are thinking about taking the job for money

 Bacms wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Man, things must be a TON different in the UK. Living by myself, I could not live on $1600 a month. Between Rent, Insurance, Gas, Student Loan payments, and Utilities, I don't think I'd have any money left for food.

Well things are always relative as saying you can live in the UK it's a bit broad. In London you wouldn't be able to live with that either, other parts of the UK you can, but it is definitely not near enough luxurious. Just to put things in perspectives the minimum wage in Portugal is €450 and there families with kids getting only that income a month. What you need to consider is that the salary is on the low level you can get around here. I was looking for jobs and serving tea in a University (3h/day) pays £14000/year. So that is just how bad things are if you are thinking about taking the job for money

Right, of course things are relative. But I live in Ohio, and it isn't exactly the most expensive area to live in the country. Wages here are moderated by cost of living, so I'd make less than someone in San Fransico doing the same job to account for those costs of living. Maybe it's different in the UK simply because of size, I don't know.

I was just saying that certainly wouldn't cut it for me, mostly in response to the person commenting that you're out of touch with society if you couldn't live on that.

 cincydooley wrote:
Man, things must be a TON different in the UK. Living by myself, I could not live on $1600 a month. Between Rent, Insurance, Gas, Student Loan payments, and Utilities, I don't think I'd have any money left for food.

£14k is $22.5k, or $1,875 a month.

 cincydooley wrote:
Between Rent, Insurance, Gas, Student Loan payments, and Utilities, I don't think I'd have any money left for food.

Just because this is always worth repeating for UK'ers as it's a hotly debated topic and is always forgotten...

In the UK, you do not need to start paying your student loan back until you earn over £21000 per year, and if you haven't paid it back in 30 years from that point, the debt is wiped.

In the southwest, I was on £18k, renting a room for £400 per month (inc council tax, water, electricity) in a shared house. I did have a few hundred to spend on funness ever month at the end of it all, but I didn't have a tv and was, well, living in a bedroom and walking most places, including to work.

I can imagine regularly needing to use a car or "public" transport to get to work would make things pretty much unsustainable at the 14 to 15k mark.

Apparently my dozen or so friends on minimum wage who live around here are starving to death then