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Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




there's a lot of direct references to many episodes in there. Could be good


Truthfully, that makes me like it less. If its just one-for-one of existing episodes that are just fine, why bother?

I get that producers and studios tends to be conservative and cautious, but a perfectly faithful copy just doesn't seem worth doing.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


The actors still look like they're cosplaying the characters, rather than playing them (Faye especially)


The few glimpses of set and costumes we get look like it leans hard into Doctor Who sort of visual camp, which I think isn't quite right for the series.

   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






I like that Ein’s a corgi again, but the lack of Ed saddens me.

 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So they made Ein a corgie again - good - but then no Ed?

Considering the very hammy style they've done for the intro, at least, Ed would at least fit that theme of acting and production style perfectly.


I do agree there is something "off" and in the Dr Who or "Cosplay" kinda style they've gone for. It might just be what they've done for the theme for the intro and the actual show will appear different.


edit - unless finding Ed is part of the storyline for the film and therefore she doesn't appear in the opening trailer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 07:32:23


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North Wales

That trailer does some weird uncanny valley thing to me, just in the opposite direction!

You know, trying to get animation to look like real people, but the end result being rather disturbing. In this case, trying to to look like the Cowboy Beebop intro, but the end result being rather disturbing...

If someone had said "look at what these enthusiastic and talented YouTubers have managed to do!", I'd have been impressed; but coming from a professional show with Shinichiro Watanabe's name on it (not that he had any say in any of it...), just... urgh.

I need to dig my OG DVDs out, I think.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Techpriestsupport wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
 slave.entity wrote:
Wasn't Masamune Shirow also consulted for the live action Ghost in the Shell? Didn't save it.

To date, there are no examples of good live action anime adaptions.


Better question was why did gits"fail". if i recall its mostly due to the whole white washing nonsense that it got wrapped up in.

the movie was stunning visually and the story wasnt bad. if anything my only gripe with the movie was the under utilization of the secondary characters.



IMO the idiotic whitewash was part of it.

The seconf part is that the original gits was a deeply thoughtful and intelligent story that dealt with fundamental issues of what is humanity and can a thinking, sentient being be equal to human?

The live action movie was "Hot badass babe gets screwed by evil guys and goes after them". Yawn.


IMHO, Ghost In The Shell (the manga) has mostly been misunderstood in the spinoffs & movies etc. Most of them somehow make the story about the action, whereas to me the OG GITS was always a "detective story". I think I've seen most of the spinoff content, and AFAIK only the series "Ghost In The Shell: ARISE" has that OG detective story vibe going on.

If anyone wants to make more GITS, it has to be more Blade Runner (detectives.. in SPACE) and less Micael Bay blockbuster gun/mecha pron. This is what I hated about the most recent movie, it totally failed in the detective story department.
   
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







The original GitS film made the spider tank scene so awesome and iconic that it is easy to think that it was the point of the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-IsysrqUlU

When really, its the long bit of actionless dialogue that follows shortly after the fight that was in fact the point.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Has there ever been a good live action rendition of an anime that has got the styling spot on?

I find that is always the thing that doesn't work for me, the styling and mood of the setting never translates. I think some of it comes down to the sound design as well.

In the ghost in the shell, there were one or two outstanding elements (the assassin cyborgs at the start and the spider tank at the ending off the top of my head) but obviously the rest was terrible.

If they want to make some money off the IP, do an anime spin off in universe.

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 Flinty wrote:
The original GitS film made the spider tank scene so awesome and iconic that it is easy to think that it was the point of the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-IsysrqUlU

When really, its the long bit of actionless dialogue that follows shortly after the fight that was in fact the point.


The spider tank was Too iconic, to the point they keep imitating it in other iterations. I mean how many times has she ripped her own arms off trying to bare hand the hatch of a tank?

 
   
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There is money in franchises.

You're having troubling coming to grips with the fact you are no longer the target audience and your participation is nice not the primary goal. Medias prime target is is in the 16-24 range, even when playing on nostalgia. Sure there are outliers but generally speaking that is why a lot of this is done. The original came out in 1998 so even assuming you didn't see it until 2000 that still means if you were 16 then you are 37 now. You watching it is icing on the cake but your kids are who they want.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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Exalted Beastlord




Eh.

A lot of reboots are aimed primarily at the nostalgia money of the original audience. Its one of the reasons they fail so often- they don't attract a new audience and/or the 30-somethings (or 40-somethings) don't like the changes. See the Dragonball movie, which AFAIK, appealed to nobody.

The worst performances are usually reserved for the properties where it turns out no one cares about it, not new audiences nor the nostalgia crowd.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/26 21:58:38


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Bit of a stretch to call Cowboy bebop a franchise also.

As popular as it was with many people, I don't think I know anyone that has watched it other than myself.

It's still very niche.

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 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Bit of a stretch to call Cowboy bebop a franchise also.

As popular as it was with many people, I don't think I know anyone that has watched it other than myself.

It's still very niche.


...It's literally responsible for bringing Anime to the west. I don't think in over 20 years of being a fan I've ever met a person who didn't know the show. Maybe different generations?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/27 08:02:03


 
   
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






I've never seen Cowboy Bebop. I only know the name from the Official Soundtrack I DLed back in the day from Napster LOL

Manga video (was it a UK thing?) was my first exposure to anime stuff. Akira was the thing everyone was watching in my youth. Admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with anime stuff in two almost two decades, don't think I've seen anything really interesting after watching Serial Experiments: Lain. It's a genre with quite a lot of chaff innit

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/27 08:10:01


 
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






I’d wager Toonami Dragonball brought anime to the west, but that was so long ago I don’t remember clearly.

 
   
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Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

 Chillreaper wrote:
That trailer does some weird uncanny valley thing to me, just in the opposite direction!

You know, trying to get animation to look like real people, but the end result being rather disturbing. In this case, trying to to look like the Cowboy Beebop intro, but the end result being rather disturbing...

If someone had said "look at what these enthusiastic and talented YouTubers have managed to do!", I'd have been impressed; but coming from a professional show with Shinichiro Watanabe's name on it (not that he had any say in any of it...), just... urgh.

I need to dig my OG DVDs out, I think.


It's currently streaming on All 4 in the UK

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/cowboy-bebop
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Beyond just kind of being incredible, I'd say its most important accomplishment was the sheer quality of the dub. It was one of the first that took voice acting really seriously with a seasoned cast and opened the door for not abysmal dubs that made it MUCH easier to air anime on US television. It was a big part of what shifted the perception of "cartoons" to something that could be treated with care. It's also just... really, really good.

As for the Netflix version.... yeah, being a direct copy seems awful. Just... why? The original hasn't aged a day. The opening here feels particularly weird because it fits in a lot of clips of scenes that distract from the silhouette aesthetic of the original. Watch them side by side and its pretty obvious what's off is the push of 70's era character clips. And yes, the whole thing has their weird YouTube cosplay feel.
   
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 AduroT wrote:
I’d wager Toonami Dragonball brought anime to the west, but that was so long ago I don’t remember clearly.


Yeah, I still distinctly recall middle school me making fun of some of my friends for liking that DBZ stuff, and that was 96-98. Per Wikipedia, CB came out in 1998 (though I doubt it hit The West/English speaking regions that quickly), so it would've been after at least some of the DBZ stuff.


As for the live action show, well, I am in the middle of watching the original anime for the first time. I don't hate live action Faye's outfit, but I dont love it either. . . .Like, its a combination of "why couldn't they be more true to source?" and "well, Faye's animated outfits are just ludicrously skimpy/impossible to pull off in today's environment". And from a few interviews I've seen, it looks like the show isn't supposed to be a carbon copy of the anime, even if in the opening sequence we see a few scenes directly copied. It seems they are going to use some of those seminal moments of the anime and explore other facets of those situations? I dunno, I think its all a bit wait and see for me and the wife (who introduced me to the series), and I'll approach the netflix series with an open mind, and try to judge it on its own merits
   
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96-98 eh? Manga videos on VHS were before that then. I think by 98 I had stopped watching anime almost completely.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Has there ever been a good live action rendition of an anime that has got the styling spot on?

I find that is always the thing that doesn't work for me, the styling and mood of the setting never translates. I think some of it comes down to the sound design as well.

In the ghost in the shell, there were one or two outstanding elements (the assassin cyborgs at the start and the spider tank at the ending off the top of my head) but obviously the rest was terrible.

If they want to make some money off the IP, do an anime spin off in universe.


Black butler's live action movie got it down perfectly.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 AduroT wrote:
I’d wager Toonami Dragonball brought anime to the west, but that was so long ago I don’t remember clearly.


LOTS of anime predates Bebop. Or Dragon Ball. I mean, I was watching Voltron in the early 80's. Even Dragonball had early morning runs on various networks before Toonami brought it to prime time. The important thing to remember about Bebop is really how well it was translated. DBZ came across HEAVILY censored with a handful of voice actors doing goofy voices for the different characters. That was pretty much the norm in the US. Cartoons were for kids and kind of one man performances from the days of Mel Blanc. The few exceptions were stuff sold to the edgy MTV crowd, but even the likes of Ninja Scroll had terrible performances. The few attempts at high profile dubs (Princess Mononoke) often brought in professional actors but didn't really result in great translations.

Bebop REALLY changed the game on dub quality. Steve Blum is so prolific now its almost a running gag, but that's just because he set a new standard for what could be expected from western voice acting. It had been a change that brewed throughout the 90's on the back of Batman TAS, but it really took off with Bebop. Not just a huge leap in the quality of anime dubs, but western animation in general. There was really no defending dubs prior to Bebop, but Bebop was a point where anime culture could connect with a more mainstream audience. It wasn't the first by any means, nor the most influential, but it just kind of landed as this common ground where so many overlapping groups of fans of entertainment could find something to bond over.
   
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 tauist wrote:
96-98 eh? Manga videos on VHS were before that then. I think by 98 I had stopped watching anime almost completely.


Thats where I cut my anime teeth, on Dominion Tank Police, Patlabor and Akira probably around 93-95

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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 AduroT wrote:
I’d wager Toonami Dragonball brought anime to the west, but that was so long ago I don’t remember clearly.


That's a decade late. Macross/robotech, gatchaman/defenders of the planet(?)/g-force, transzor z, voltron were around (if spotty) in the early to mid 80s. Bits and pieces in the late 70s, iirc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/28 02:48:42


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Togusa wrote:
...It's literally responsible for bringing Anime to the west.


Akira, Robotech, Speed Racer, and Astro-Boy want to have a word with you...

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SoCal

Togusa wrote:
 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Bit of a stretch to call Cowboy bebop a franchise also.

As popular as it was with many people, I don't think I know anyone that has watched it other than myself.

It's still very niche.


...It's literally responsible for bringing Anime to the west. I don't think in over 20 years of being a fan I've ever met a person who didn't know the show. Maybe different generations?


Edit: I’ve been thoroughly ninja’d. Ironic, considering the subject matter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/28 03:08:47


   
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Voss wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I’d wager Toonami Dragonball brought anime to the west, but that was so long ago I don’t remember clearly.


That's a decade late. Macross/robotech, gatchaman/defenders of the planet(?)/g-force, transzor z, voltron were around (if spotty) in the early to mid 80s. Bits and pieces in the late 70s, iirc.


Yeah, but I’d say DBZ is where it got more mainstream I mean.

 
   
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Flinty wrote:
 tauist wrote:
96-98 eh? Manga videos on VHS were before that then. I think by 98 I had stopped watching anime almost completely.


Thats where I cut my anime teeth, on Dominion Tank Police, Patlabor and Akira probably around 93-95


That's what I'm talking about! You get me
   
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I just remembered that Channel 4 in the UK used to show Manga branded films at about 11pm for a while. I think I caught one or two and felt very grown up (being about 14 at the time) and got hooked

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Sadly that's why the whole anime thing passed me by for decades. Channel 4 was very spotty for reception where we were (it was also why Babalon 5 was something that I also missed most episodes of). That and my parents were not ones for letting us watch films super super late in the night.

As for which anime "brought it to the west" I suspect there isn't one. There's a cumulative effect of multiple small steps being taken and whichever one you feel "brought it to the west" is likely just the one of many that you spotted/connected too/remember first.


Heck you could argue that Pokemon brought anime to the west in a massive way, even though at the time most kids would have called it a cartoon not anime.

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Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
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Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

The only anime I'd ever seen in my teens (mid 90s) was basically Akira. That seemed to be just about the only anime that ever appeared on UK terrestrial TV. Saw some more at University, but never enough to get really hooked on it. (As in, I liked it, but not particularly more than I liked most other animation). And DBZ always seemed like nonsense.

Actually only got around to watching Cowboy Bebop a few months ago when I ran across it on All 4 while looking for Harley Quinn. And I have to say that it's absolutely excellent, I should have watched it decades ago, and this live action version is going to have to work HARD.

I suspect the "opening credits" we've seen aren't the final version. I think some of them will be replaced with Ed after they turn up a few episodes in.
   
 
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