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Darsath wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the updated chaplain datasheets, and blood angels phobos stuff is pretty much "whtie dwarf yannari rules in PA1" level to be fair. but yeah I'd forgotten that chaplains would need their sheets updated

So we take out things that were just directly ported into the book like Phobos units and data sheet updates (not counting new psychic powers of litanies), how many Blood Angels pages are there? Strictly new Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers content.

looks like 8 pages of new content, ten if "the colours of death" turns out to be rules and not just a paint scheme show case. Blood angels definatly are the better off of the two armies highlighted here but once you factor in the stuff we already have thats just being reprinted so that BA players don't have to run out and buy codex space marines, it's a lot closer to partiy.

this of course assumes none of the old chaplains who are getting updated are getting anything beyond having acts of faith slapped onto the unit.

Weird. So to me, it sounds like a whole bunch of whiny a babies only read a little bit without comprehending the actual situation, and they are now throwing dumb fits about a misconceived issue which could have been entirely a avoided if they weren’t so quick to ring the “cry like a baby” bell?
It sounds like both factions shown in the book got a pretty close amount of stuff (quantity, not quality), and should retire this line of rage?

I'm not involved in this discussion, but I'd like to remind everyone to please remain polite, and not insult one another. Keep the toxicity to a minimum if you can.

I think it’s fair to say too many people are overreacting about this and they’ll continue to do so because they like to.
Both factions actually got close to the same amount of new stuff. One got more lore probably, but we should also think about how of the two forces here, one is never actually given any first person representation ever, and is only described from the viewpoints of others. There’s just too much whining because people like to do it.

Throwing insults at people doesn't help convince people to think you're right, though. I'm not here to take sides (I don't play either faction).

I don’t play either faction, either. However, there is quite the quantity of people that will whine on this site, even if the reason come out to be false with only an iota of comprehension. I’m just saying it’s a problem. I haven’t Calle anyone in particular out. If they feel this open-ended line of discussion effects them, they should at least wonder why.

Sumilidon wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Close amount of stuff lmfao.
Where's the new Tyranid model lines at?

What more could you want? Space Marines have been suffering for decades. We still don’t have primaris bikers, primaris land speeders, primaris Psykers on stardrakes or any primaris squads with minor psychic powers (which I am going to trademark the name sequitors).

Once all that stuff is out, plus whatever else they want to add such as a drop pod for primaris or a stormraven capable of dropping a repulsor, then you can see one finecast model that nobody plays turned into plastic.

Ps. That model will only be part of a stand-alone boxed game containing Tyranids against Dark Angels who by then would be long overdue a new character and primaris ravenwing. If will not be available for direct sale until 3 years later.

You're right, sorry.
We need Primaris Chaos space marines immediately after that before we can start touching xenos


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apple Peel wrote:

Tell me what needs done. I don’t think I came across as sarcastic in that post. How old are the 5 oldest Tyranid kits with units in the 8th edition Tyranid codex, and tell me about their quality. Do they need updates? Would updated kits invalidate the current units of extra weapon options were added to the kit?

Once Primaris Chaos lines are done, we should see some new lore to come out for armies that are essentially model-squatted and some new models that come with that too.
Honestly, is it too high of an expectation to think that Xenos armies should get *some* new content throughout all of 8th? And don't give me "The CryPTek On ScArAbS" is new content line of reasoning

Please not chaos primaris, infact don't even joke about that .
Sincerly a csm player

 Apple Peel wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the updated chaplain datasheets, and blood angels phobos stuff is pretty much "whtie dwarf yannari rules in PA1" level to be fair. but yeah I'd forgotten that chaplains would need their sheets updated

So we take out things that were just directly ported into the book like Phobos units and data sheet updates (not counting new psychic powers of litanies), how many Blood Angels pages are there? Strictly new Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers content.

looks like 8 pages of new content, ten if "the colours of death" turns out to be rules and not just a paint scheme show case. Blood angels definatly are the better off of the two armies highlighted here but once you factor in the stuff we already have thats just being reprinted so that BA players don't have to run out and buy codex space marines, it's a lot closer to partiy.

this of course assumes none of the old chaplains who are getting updated are getting anything beyond having acts of faith slapped onto the unit.

Weird. So to me, it sounds like a whole bunch of whiny a babies only read a little bit without comprehending the actual situation, and they are now throwing dumb fits about a misconceived issue which could have been entirely a avoided if they weren’t so quick to ring the “cry like a baby” bell?
It sounds like both factions shown in the book got a pretty close amount of stuff (quantity, not quality), and should retire this line of rage?

I'm not involved in this discussion, but I'd like to remind everyone to please remain polite, and not insult one another. Keep the toxicity to a minimum if you can.

I think it’s fair to say too many people are overreacting about this and they’ll continue to do so because they like to.
Both factions actually got close to the same amount of new stuff. One got more lore probably, but we should also think about how of the two forces here, one is never actually given any first person representation ever, and is only described from the viewpoints of others. There’s just too much whining because people like to do it.

I get being frustrated your faction doesn't get the level of support of other factions but when you start deliberatly misrepresenting facts to push your narrative then it's a problem.

BrianDavion wrote:

I get being frustrated your faction doesn't get the level of support of other factions but when you start deliberatly misrepresenting facts to push your narrative then it's a problem.

What facts were being misrepresented? Or are you misrepresenting facts now pog

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the updated chaplain datasheets, and blood angels phobos stuff is pretty much "whtie dwarf yannari rules in PA1" level to be fair. but yeah I'd forgotten that chaplains would need their sheets updated

So we take out things that were just directly ported into the book like Phobos units and data sheet updates (not counting new psychic powers of litanies), how many Blood Angels pages are there? Strictly new Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers content.

If we subtract the datasheets entirely, then you're left with about 24 pages of just BA/FT/etc content. Compared to 12 pages for Tyranids.

What's with the belligerence?

 Apple Peel wrote:
Tell me what needs done. I don’t think I came across as sarcastic in that post. How old are the 5 oldest Tyranid kits with units in the 8th edition Tyranid codex, and tell me about their quality. Do they need updates? Would updated kits invalidate the current units of extra weapon options were added to the kit?

-Tyranid Gaunts are from 2001. The split-head design means the front of the face is completely flat, they're all very statically posed, and the mold lines are awful. The straight tails and general lack of variety make them all look very 'same-y' (maybe thematically fitting, but not very aesthetically pleasing- consider the WHFB Chaos Warriors versus the new ones), and Hormagaunts in particular have a very odd posture that doesn't make it clear how they 'actually' walk/run. 3D renders like this show just how much of a difference there is between the current sculpts and what they could be.

-Current Genestealers are from 2005/2006. They have absolutely atrocious mold lines and some bizarre leg posture (knees splayed way out). The Space Hulk and Deathwatch: Overkill Genestealers are so much better, but have never been sold separately.

-Biovores and Lictors are also from 2005/2006, and both suffer greatly for being Finecast. They're fragile and annoying to build. Pyrovores came out a bit later (I want to say 2009?), but could be easily lumped into a Biovore kit.

-Warriors were repackaged in 2012 with some minor tweaks (primarily to the heavy weapons and rending claws) and addition of some new parts (boneswords, lash whips, and Prime parts), but are fundamentally the same sculpts from 2001. While I think they've aged pretty well, I'd love to see a newer kit with crisper detail and more dynamic posing- the tails in particular stand out as static.

-Ripper Swarms are from 2001, and are packaged oddly. They come with other boxed sets, one base at a time, so it's hard to acquire them in any decent quantity. It'd be nice to just be able to buy a box of Ripper Swarms.

-As far as new things: Tyranids have never had a plastic LoW, and I'd love a Knight equivalent that wasn't Forge World. Shrikes were in the Index, but didn't make the Codex jump. A new Warriors box could include Shrikes as well to bring them back. I'd like to see more mid-sized Tyranids akin to the Warrior, Tyrant Guard, and Ravener, or perhaps another Gaunt variant, possibly resurrecting the Spike Rifle (a longer-ranged weapon that Termagants had back in 2nd). Our last new model was in 2014; just throw us a bone.

Tyranids are on the whole in a good place, but there are indeed some areas where they can be improved upon. Catbarf has summarised most of the good ones, leaving out that Lictors and Deathleaper and the Biovore and Pyrovore sets are all older materials that could do with an update. Everyone is expecting 3 in a boxed set with duel builds for both the pairs just like we have for the hiveguard and the zoanthrope/venomthrope sets.

The only other model in dire need of a material update is the Red Terror who, in todays' armies, doesn't really live up to his name when you've got Trygons and Mawlocks and more on the table.


Tyranids otherwise have a very full roster of options, esp when you consider that many units can vary between full close combat to full artillery and everything inbetween with weapon changes. Adding in a Lord of War model is about the only real gap from the GW line-up. The rest is just replacements.



Also I'm fairly convinced that besides the new tentacle heads and the extra carapace and scything talon additions the actual sculpt of the Genestealers hasn't changed since they first game out. They are a very powerful classic design but very dated. Considering they fit into the cult and to tyranids it was surprising GW didn't throw a bone out and update them.

Gaunts are well covered, the Termagaunt getting a new spike rifle and a non-split head would be great to see from a revised kit.



Overall Tyranids are in a solid spot, they just need some updates. A handful of releases would put them right at the forefront alongside Sisters of Battle.

If we subtract the datasheets entirely, then you're left with about 24 pages of just BA/FT/etc content. Compared to 12 pages for Tyranids.

also subtract the litanies (it's almost all reprint except for a single BA specific one) the obscuruous disiple, which is a direct port from codex space marines (and shadow spear before it) the vanguard warlord traits, which is yet again a direct port from shadowspear. (CSM players BTW should rightfully be annoyed GW didn't port their warlord traits from shadow spear in F&F. that's a legitimate complaint, there's no where other then shadow spear to get that stuff)

and the first 5 or so pages which is mostly fluff describing how the new vanguard stuff fits into blood angels.

BrianDavion wrote:

If we subtract the datasheets entirely, then you're left with about 24 pages of just BA/FT/etc content. Compared to 12 pages for Tyranids.

also subtract the litanies (it's almost all reprint except for a single BA specific one) the obscuruous disiple, which is a direct port from codex space marines (and shadow spear before it) the vanguard warlord traits, which is yet again a direct port from shadowspear. (CSM players BTW should rightfully be annoyed GW didn't port their warlord traits from shadow spear in F&F. that's a legitimate complaint, there's no where other then shadow spear to get that stuff)

and the first 5 or so pages which is mostly fluff describing how the new vanguard stuff fits into blood angels.

Should Tyranids also subtract all that stuff too? Or do you just want to do the same for Blood Angels to help misrepresent the facts

 Eonfuzz wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

If we subtract the datasheets entirely, then you're left with about 24 pages of just BA/FT/etc content. Compared to 12 pages for Tyranids.

also subtract the litanies (it's almost all reprint except for a single BA specific one) the obscuruous disiple, which is a direct port from codex space marines (and shadow spear before it) the vanguard warlord traits, which is yet again a direct port from shadowspear. (CSM players BTW should rightfully be annoyed GW didn't port their warlord traits from shadow spear in F&F. that's a legitimate complaint, there's no where other then shadow spear to get that stuff)

and the first 5 or so pages which is mostly fluff describing how the new vanguard stuff fits into blood angels.

Should Tyranids also subtract all that stuff too? Or do you just want to do the same for Blood Angels to help misrepresent the facts

Where's the copied datasheets for Tyranids to subtract? Like, you haven't even understood the argument being made. Go back, reread and come back when you have.

Would it make the book more fair if GW added in 15 pages of copy-pasted datasheets from Codex: Tyranids?

 Eonfuzz wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

If we subtract the datasheets entirely, then you're left with about 24 pages of just BA/FT/etc content. Compared to 12 pages for Tyranids.

also subtract the litanies (it's almost all reprint except for a single BA specific one) the obscuruous disiple, which is a direct port from codex space marines (and shadow spear before it) the vanguard warlord traits, which is yet again a direct port from shadowspear. (CSM players BTW should rightfully be annoyed GW didn't port their warlord traits from shadow spear in F&F. that's a legitimate complaint, there's no where other then shadow spear to get that stuff)

and the first 5 or so pages which is mostly fluff describing how the new vanguard stuff fits into blood angels.

Should Tyranids also subtract all that stuff too? Or do you just want to do the same for Blood Angels to help misrepresent the facts

yes Tyranids are welcome to exclude from the argument any rules that they've had FAQed to them for the past 6 months.

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm somewhat curious to see what a Tyranid Name Generator actually covers.

It is probably the same one that is the Kill Team core rulebook are pretty close to the same. The names aren't what the Tyranids call themselves but more like what the Imperium would call them. A quick example from my book is "The Looming" plus "Fang" creating The Looming Fang Brood.

Let's try to be honest when it is time to be so.

BA and nids received almost the same amount of content from this book. Maybe one or two pages more for BA due to the 2 new datasheets. All the other stuff is just a reprint.

BA received more, sure, but the difference is small enough to be acceptable.

Spoletta wrote:
Let's try to be honest when it is time to be so.

BA and nids received almost the same amount of content from this book. Maybe one or two pages more for BA due to the 2 new datasheets. All the other stuff is just a reprint.

BA received more, sure, but the difference is small enough to be acceptable.

yeah but for certain parties that doesn't fit their "GW FAVORS MARINES" narrative. so they're not intreasted in honesty

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Let's try to be honest when it is time to be so.

BA and nids received almost the same amount of content from this book. Maybe one or two pages more for BA due to the 2 new datasheets. All the other stuff is just a reprint.

BA received more, sure, but the difference is small enough to be acceptable.

yeah but for certain parties that doesn't fit their "GW FAVORS MARINES" narrative. so they're not intreasted in honesty

Name another faction that recently received a year of new updates, model lines and totally obvious codex bumps

GW favors marines, there is no narrative there.

It's just that this is not a case of that.

BrianDavion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Let's try to be honest when it is time to be so.

BA and nids received almost the same amount of content from this book. Maybe one or two pages more for BA due to the 2 new datasheets. All the other stuff is just a reprint.

BA received more, sure, but the difference is small enough to be acceptable.

yeah but for certain parties that doesn't fit their "GW FAVORS MARINES" narrative. so they're not intreasted in honesty

GW does favour marines...

 catbarf wrote:

I'm still annoyed that we don't get any flat bonuses for an all-Tyranid army, which is what I was hoping Adaptive Physiology would be- none of them are as impactful as Doctrines or Acts of Faith, so I don't see why we have to sacrifice WTs or CP for them. But there is still a net improvement here, so I'm at least happy for that.

Act is not sisters anti soup rule. You can soup all you wish and act of faith is there


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Let's try to be honest when it is time to be so.

BA and nids received almost the same amount of content from this book. Maybe one or two pages more for BA due to the 2 new datasheets. All the other stuff is just a reprint.

BA received more, sure, but the difference is small enough to be acceptable.

Amount maybe, whatabout the one that actually matters aka quality? One good page is worth more than 1000 bad ones

Nid stuff in PA3 is top quality (even if sometimes broken, like the new exocrines), so no problems there.

and yeah the sister's anti-soup ability is their rites none of which are good eneugh that you're not going to mind losing it to soup in say a IK.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the updated chaplain datasheets, and blood angels phobos stuff is pretty much "whtie dwarf yannari rules in PA1" level to be fair. but yeah I'd forgotten that chaplains would need their sheets updated

So we take out things that were just directly ported into the book like Phobos units and data sheet updates (not counting new psychic powers of litanies), how many Blood Angels pages are there? Strictly new Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers content.

looks like 8 pages of new content, ten if "the colours of death" turns out to be rules and not just a paint scheme show case. Blood angels definatly are the better off of the two armies highlighted here but once you factor in the stuff we already have thats just being reprinted so that BA players don't have to run out and buy codex space marines, it's a lot closer to partiy.

this of course assumes none of the old chaplains who are getting updated are getting anything beyond having acts of faith slapped onto the unit.

How'd you get only 8 pages? There's a contents page in this very thread lol. Even if we use your and Apple Peel's interesting metric of; 'how many pages not including all this other new stuff they got' they still got more.

Count them with me;

Inheritors of rage - 1
Abilities - 2
Sons of Sanguinius - 3
Vanguard Warlord Traits - 4
Stratagems - 7
Obscuration Discipline - 8
Litanies of Battle - 9
Relics of Baal - 10
Special Issue Wargear - 11
Flesh Tearers - 13
Points - 16

16 pages of stuff you're happy to call 'new' for Blood Angels, not including the name generator.

Now let's count Nids, shall we?

Bio Artifacts - 1
Stratagems - 3
Hive Fleet Adaptations - 5
Adaptive Physiology - 7
Hive Fleet Psychic Powers - 8

8 pages of stuff for Nids.

Now I'm no mathematician, but 8 is half of 16, isn't it? That's to say that BA received twice as much new content for this book than Nids.

Equal, you say?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the updated chaplain datasheets, and blood angels phobos stuff is pretty much "whtie dwarf yannari rules in PA1" level to be fair. but yeah I'd forgotten that chaplains would need their sheets updated

So we take out things that were just directly ported into the book like Phobos units and data sheet updates (not counting new psychic powers of litanies), how many Blood Angels pages are there? Strictly new Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers content.

looks like 8 pages of new content, ten if "the colours of death" turns out to be rules and not just a paint scheme show case. Blood angels definatly are the better off of the two armies highlighted here but once you factor in the stuff we already have thats just being reprinted so that BA players don't have to run out and buy codex space marines, it's a lot closer to partiy.

this of course assumes none of the old chaplains who are getting updated are getting anything beyond having acts of faith slapped onto the unit.

Weird. So to me, it sounds like a whole bunch of whiny a babies only read a little bit without comprehending the actual situation, and they are now throwing dumb fits about a misconceived issue which could have been entirely a avoided if they weren’t so quick to ring the “cry like a baby” bell?
It sounds like both factions shown in the book got a pretty close amount of stuff (quantity, not quality), and should retire this line of rage?

Mods - this post clearly breaks rule 1.

BA have 10 pages, from page 52 to page 62, just read the table of contents (flash tearers and points are not BA content). Minus litanies and powers which are reprints, you have 9 pages.

To this you add 2 new datasheets for about 10 pages of content.

Tyranids have from 70 to 78, 9 pages of all new stuff.

Is it really necessary to get angry over 1 page of difference?

Spoletta wrote:
BA have 10 pages, from page 52 to page 62, just read the table of contents (flash tearers and points are not BA content). Minus litanies and powers which are reprints, you have 9 pages.

To this you add 2 new datasheets for about 10 pages of content.

Tyranids have from 70 to 78, 9 pages of all new stuff.

Is it really necessary to get angry over 1 page of difference?

No, but again there're some weird disconnects between Marine and Eldar custom traits and the Nid one.

Example:

Marines - Master Artisan = Re-roll a single hit roll and wound roll per unit in shooting, melee and overwatch.
Eldar - Expert Crafters = Re-roll a single hit roll and wound roll per unit in shooting, melee and overwatch.
Nids - Synaptic Augment = Re-roll a single hit roll (but not wound roll) per unit in shooting (but not melee) and overwatch IF the unit is near a Synapse creature

Why???????????????? Just why???

Spoletta wrote:
BA have 10 pages, from page 52 to page 62, just read the table of contents (flash tearers and points are not BA content). Minus litanies and powers which are reprints, you have 9 pages.

To this you add 2 new datasheets for about 10 pages of content.

Tyranids have from 70 to 78, 9 pages of all new stuff.

Is it really necessary to get angry over 1 page of difference?

Whats with pages 28 to 34?

Don't have the book yet, so I can't say for certain, but by the name and position in the book they look like narrative stuff.

tneva82 wrote:Act is not sisters anti soup rule. You can soup all you wish and act of faith is there

Sorry, I meant Sacred Rites.

Spoletta wrote:Nid stuff in PA3 is top quality (even if sometimes broken, like the new exocrines), so no problems there.

The build-your-own-hive-fleet system is hot garbage. Seriously, I don't know who thought that having monsters inflict a -1Ld debuff within 3", or getting a 6+ invuln but only on monsters and only if you don't move and only if you're not in melee and only if it's turn 2+, would be worth an army trait. None of them come close to dethroning Kraken.

As well, they don't get a 'parent' hive fleet, so that means the new fleet-specific psychic powers are off-limits. Granted, most of the psychic powers are of limited utility. A couple seem worthwhile.

The relics are so-so. The one for psykers is a must-take, everything else is meh.

Overall it's really just the adaptive physiology and the new stratagems that are must-haves, but they cost CP, so in an army already reliant on CP that's going to be tough. It's a nice upgrade, but not what I would consider 'top quality' when we were hoping for a flat buff to put us on even footing with the other factions.

We've reached a point where I'm reading the descriptions of these traits and thinking they're bad jokes.

It's truly bizarre, like for the marines rules so far they have pretty consistently good rules, but when it comes to xenos, god forbid they have any mix-and-match traits that come close to marines as far as being competitive goes. It's like they were thrown in as an afterthought because they HAVE to do something for them out of obligation rather than any desire to give them some sort of bone or update. It's more or less reinforcing the NPC feel of a lot of xenos races when compared to the golden MC role of marines right now.

 Grimskul wrote:
It's truly bizarre, like for the marines rules so far they have pretty consistently good rules, but when it comes to xenos, god forbid they have any mix-and-match traits that come close to marines as far as being competitive goes. It's like they were thrown in as an afterthought because they HAVE to do something for them out of obligation rather than any desire to give them some sort of bone or update. It's more or less reinforcing the NPC feel of a lot of xenos races when compared to the golden MC role of marines right now.

he now, the aeldari ones weren't that bad.
But it's eldar and one thing that eldar had was consistent rules support. (GW just shifted internally to force people to buy another part of aspects and co kg. imo but he.)

Also god forbid Chaos gets build your own traits.

Lol i give up, there is no way to reason here.

If people really think that the eldar one was good and the tyranid one was bad, we must be playing different games.

I'm extremely happy with my bugs and will restart using them in my highly competitive marine meta without issues. I have no reason to fight with people who only see the negative side of everything.