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 SisterSydney wrote:
The main upgrade I gave the Grand Exorcist was range: You to from 48” to 12”-72.” Now, I’m probably overestimating the importance of range in, like, 90% of games, but my thought for its tactical role was long-range fire support, especially against other superheavies, while other Sororitas forces closed to 48” and lower.

Because it can fire either Exorcist Missiles or Conflagration Rockets, my Mathhammer spreadsheet showed it outperformed the Baneblade Cannon pretty consistently. (I’ll have to post the numbers once I get my laptop back from my son, who’s using it to watch the NFL Draft). I didn’t factor in the Demolisher Cannon because I replaced that with a multi-Melta, which is actually two more points.

As for using Guard equipment— it just doesn’t bother me at all. My 2015 fandex had the Sisters using a mix of Marine and Guard kit, all modified to their style of fighting. I think of the Sisters as an in-between force between “regular human hordes” and “super soldier elites.” Plus Guard Flyers are super ugly....

Well, great, beacuse a Demolisher cannon is 20 points for 1d6 S10 AP-3 D1d6 shots, versus a Multimelta getting 1 S8 AP-4 D1d6 shots. Demolisher Cannon is a huge difference.

GuardsSisters kind of bothers me, since like, were not Guard. It just feels really jarringly out-of-character. We're not really a modern era military organization with modern era military things and grittiness and trenches and "Baker, this is Easy, there's Jerry coming over here like a swarm o' Hornets, WHERE'S THAT ARTILLERY!?!?" We are what those people are talking about with Marines as techno-knights. We have fast moving mechanized infantry with flowing banners and shining armor who ride down like the Winged Hussars as defenders of vienna, or crusaders who march on Jerusalem with a giant cross edifice.


And as far as the GE's range goes, if it's long range firesupport, then it should definitely be the Shadowsword-equivalent option instead of the meltagun one. Meltagun one is just awkward feeling like it's obviously a weapon-swap shadowsword where things just don't synchronize.

Heh -- I actually use WWII phonetic-alphabet codes in the title of one of my Sororitas fanfics, Able Baker -- although in-universe it was an Inquisitor that picked those designations. I've known too many real soldiers to easily imagine fictional ones as paladins, or for that matter to imagine real Crusaders and Hussars as very different in character from the soldiers I know. And logistically it makes sense to me that the Sororitas, as a relatively new imperial institution (only 4,000 years old...) would leverage the biggest active manufacturing base at times.

That said: You're right, I need to swap around which IG variant I use for some of the Sororitas variants. Excellent point! I'll work on that this weekend!

[1] I should base the Grand Exorcist on the Shadowsword instead of the Baneblade and, since its role is long range fire support, try to make its weapon comparable to the Volcano Cannon instead of the Baneblade Cannon. No transport capacity, modest secondary armament for self-defense against things within its missiles' minimum range.

[2] Fire Sword / Melta Assault Tank should get a transport capacity and a points cost based on a short-range superheavy, not a long-range sniper like the Shadowsword. Hell, the Doomhammer has a firing deck AND its main gun -- despite the fluff saying it's a laser -- has the Melta rule in this edition for some reason! So I just have to up its cost appropriately for the Sisters special rules and BS:3+.

[3] Flameblade still should be based on the Baneblade, I think: With a flamer as your main gun, you really need that secondary weapon mounted in the hull to hit things more than 18" away.

[4] Storm Queen stays a Storm Lord. We need a giant bolter to round out our Holy Trinity Plus One (where the Plus One is the Exorcist), and it's hella useful against light vehicles & heavy infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a stab at revising the Grand Exorcist -- which I'm pretty happy about, although it may be OP -- and an alternative giant-melta tank I'm calling the Flamehammer -- which honestly doesn't excite me as much as the Fire Sword does. What do people think?

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Flamehammer
(490 points per model, 1 model per unit)


Design Notes:


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Grand Exorcist [REVISED]
(570 points per model, 1 model per unit)

The Grand Exorcist carries a rare and terrifying variant of the already-uncommon Exorcist Missile Launcher, scaled up for super-heavy vehicles.


Design Notes:


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As it is now the grand exorcist can pull double duty as a stormlord or shadowsword. 6D6 shots averages out to 21 shots on average. The stormlord has 20 shots admittedly at +1S and +1D. The stormlord would only be more viable against 2W or T5 infantry and doesn’t have a good answer to heavier vehicles. The shadowsword has no real answer to infantry but has almost the same performance against most heavy targets you would see in the game. The volcano cannon doesn’t pull away from the missiles until you reach T9 titanic units. I think you should reduce some of the versatility of the grand exorcist but bring the points closer to 500 than 600.

Yeah, I typed "6D6" on impulse -- scaling up from the Conflagration Rockets on a regular Exorcist it would be 3D6. And I think copying Volcano Cannon range, S, AP, & D is too high, as well.

Conversely, the Magma Cannon is... underwhelming. S:10 AP:-5 D: D6 (melta) is definitely better than a regular melta, but it's not Titanic-scale scary the way S:16 is.

I agree about the magma cannon. I liked your original design for a LOW scale melta much better, short range but super high strength sounds right, I'd keep the -5ap as melta shouldn't care about armour. For damage, rolling two dice for each successful hit could get tedious, so would you consider a reverse of the conversion beamer's system? So, basing off your original design:

Range: 48 heavy 2dr, s:16, ap:-5, damage:(see table)
48-24: d6 damage
24-12; 3+d3 damage
12-*: 6 damage

That would have a similar effect as the current melta rule but cut down on dice while guaranteeing at least 4 damage per wound at half range and making it completely reliable at point blank.

Just ditch the conflag rocket option. They're new anyway, and at a certain point more anti-infantry shots has sharply diminishing returns.

They're not necessary at all if you're also set on having a flame tank and a stormlord. Sometimes, you're just creating too many things that have the same role, and one is just going to be bad or overpowered.
The Baneblade family already has this problem: how many can you name and define a valid purpose for? There are 10, but only 3 really matter: Baneblade, Stormlord, and Shadowsword. Some of them are actually just worse versions of others, like the Banesword.

After, I kid you not, staying up too late several nights playing Mathhammer with enormous Excel spreadsheets, I’ve come up with a less insane version of the Grand Exorcist, now a 570-point Shadowsword variant armed with this thing -- and yes, I'm still playing with a Conflagration Rocket mode, because it just makes so much sense that you'd have alternative anti-personnel ammunition for your giant rocket tank:

Grand Exorcist Missile Battery
When attacking with this weapon, choose one of the profiles below:
Devastation: 18”-96” Heavy 2D6 S:10 AP:-4 D:2D6
Conflagration: 18”-96” Heavy 4D6 S:6 AP:-3 D:2

Detail rules & design notes follow in spoilers below. As always I'm eager for incisive comments, and I expect to make further changes. Revised Fire Sword will come (I hope) tomorrow, but that's a lot easier....

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Grand Exorcist [REVISED]
(570 points per model, 1 model per unit)

The Grand Exorcist carries a rare and terrifying variant of the already-uncommon Exorcist Missile Launcher, scaled up for super-heavy vehicles.


Design Notes:


Stop! MathHammer time!


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Below are the latest versions of the three other superheavies for your critique:
The Fire Sword – with a very scary melta cannon that is basically the Reaver Melta Cannon minus Macro and plus (a version of) the melta rule, costed at +50 points above the Volcano Cannon because it’s friggin’ terrifying. The Shadowsword may lurk in the ruins and snipe Titans from a distance, this thing drives up to them and shoots them in the face.
The Flameblade – lightly revised to have the Inferno Cannon returned to its standard 18” Range and valued at equal points cost to the Baneblade Cannon it replaces.
The Storm Queen – which didn’t strike folks as needing changes at all. (Well, some people considered it pointless, since it’s just the IG vehicle with Sororitas special rules, but how could the Sisters NOT have the holy trinity weapons on their superheavies?).
I’ve also changed the Armoured Pulpit so it (a) can go on any vehicle but (b) the occupant can be fired on by ANY unit if the vehicle is the closest unit, because as Evil Kiwi pointed out snipers are actually fairly rare, and it makes sense someone screaming orders/hymns from the side of a house-sized tank might actually attract some attention.

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New Vehicle Wargear:

Armoured Pulpit (20 points)
The most ferociously holy leaders of the Adepta Sororitas and the Ecclesiarchy sometimes ride to war on mighty vehicles, preaching and commanding from hatches converted to armoured pulpits. Such a post is a mixed blessing for its occupants, however, as the same prominent position that helps the lead the faithful also makes them conspicuous to the wicked..
One Adeptus Ministorum character embarked on a vehicle with this upgrade may ride in the pulpit. If that vehicle is not already a Transport, it gains the Transport keyword and a transport capacity of one model.
This character may use aura abilities and make ranged attacks as if they were not embarked, measuring ranges from any point on the hull.
This character may also be targeted by ranged attacks, counting as the closest visible enemy unit to the model shooting at them if the vehicle on which they are embarked is the closet visible enemy unit; they gain the benefits of being in cover.

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Fire Sword
(550 points per model, 1 model per unit)

The Fire Sword is the Sororitas’ superheavy tank-killer, fortress-buster, and Titan-hunter. Derived from the Shadowsword, it replaces the long-range Volcano Cannon with a Consecrated Melta Cannon that does even more damage at short range.



Design Notes:



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Flameblade
(440 points per model, 1 model per unit)

The Flameblade is a variant of the Imperial Guard Baneblade that replaces the main cannon with a Titan-scale flamer, trading range for sheer incinerating power. The Guard’s general-purpose superheavy thus becomes a highly specialized flame-spewing nightmare, optimized to plow through heretical city districts and set them on fire.



Design Notes:


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Storm Queen
(550 points per model, 1 model per unit)

The Sisterhood’s favorite superheavy is the Storm Queen, a lightly modified Imperial Guard Stormlord. Optimized to carry infantry into combat and support them at close range and high risk, the very attributes that make the average Guard commander nervous only attract the more aggressive Sororitas.



Design Notes:


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And, for reference, the Mighty Fortress rule and general design notes – these aren’t changed from before:

Mighty Fortress


Design Notes:


A note on costing Acts of Faith, Sacred Rites, & Shield of Faith:


Why no sponsons?


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I have mixed thoughts on the grand exorcist. On the one hand with both rocket types it doesn’t suffer from the specialization that most superheavies suffer from. It’s an efficient killer against everything from medium infantry to heavy vehicles and packs a mean punch against anything that isn’t an actual titan. If you have to keep the anti infantry missile option, I think you should reduce the strength to 3 or 4. Otherwise unless you desperately want a party boat, why take a stormlord? On the other hand it does come in at over 1/4 or your army at 200 points.

The firesword and flamblade both seem fine to me. I just can’t really see where the roll for the storm queen is right now. It’s about the same cost as the grand exorcist but it trades being able to threaten heavy vehicles for transport capacity. Just look at the land raider for why there’s little value in the transport space.

You should also comb through the stratagems. A handful probably need a separate value when used on a super heavy tank. The one that lets a unit advance and fire as normal should be at least 2CP given the flameblade.

Good point about Stratagems. As for the Storm Queen's role: One advantage of the Storm Queen is it has no minimum range -- the Grand Exorcist can't hit things within 18". But that may not be enough.

I tried dropping the Grand Exorcist's conflagration-mode to S:5 AP:-2 -- the same as the standard Conflagration Rockets on the regular-sized Exorcist -- and it's still better than a 3+ (Sororitas) Vulcan Mega-Bolter except for a narrow range of targets, specifically 1-wound models and bikes, show in bold below:



So people are probably right, I have to overcome my sense of what would be logical militarily (which WH40K often is not...) and drop the Conflagration Rocket mode for game balance.

It would make sense to make vehicles multi role. Modern MLRS carry cluster munitions for both vehicles and infantry. But Warhammer and particularly the Imperium isn’t build on good tactical design . No one in there right mind would build a titan and the heavy tank was pushed out by the utility provided by the main battle tank too.

If you do drop the anti infantry firing mode I’d also argue that you should just get rid of the minimum range. If you can point blank a volcano cannon at 1” than a giant missile is within reason too. If it’s launching a missile up in the air and then down it makes sense.

Your idea for the Fire Sword's melta cannon seems better than mine. The melta effect is simpler but still strong. It's also kind of nice to know that my monster is the next toughest thing than a titan against it.

Maybe allow the option of a heavy flamer pintle mounted weapon instead of the storm bolter? Would be good for chafe clearing, especially for the Grand Exorcist with its minimum range restriction on its main weapon.

Thanks! Four things:

1) What do folks think of the revised Armoured Pulpit, which lets the character inside be targeted normally? They count as "closest enemy model" if the vehicle they're on is the closest; the only protection they gave is cover. I think that may be too little, swinging the pendulum too far from being targetable by snipers only. Perhaps they should get a bonus to their invulnerable save as well, maxing out at 4+?

The current Armoured Pulpit rules, for ease of reference:



To your specific comments:


2) Godzilla 666: Yeah, a pintle-mounted flamethrower -- or multi-melta -- would be cool. The IG options are just storm bolter or heavy stubber, but now that I check the Fellblade family (thanks to Lord Katherine for reminding me those are potential models), I see they can take a heavy flamer or multi-melta as well. I'll make that change to all these superheavies in the next revision.

3) Evil Kiwi: I'm definitely dropping the anti-personnel mode from the Grand Exorcist, but I think I'm going to keep the minimum range -- that helps distinguish its tactical role more clearly from the other superheavies, which are short-ranged brawlers by Titanic standards.
What do folks think the point cost should be with the anti-tank mode only?

4) Finally, a Sororitas Crassus! This is a simple change. To keep the cost reasonable, I made Mighty Fortress an option on this one rather than mandatory:

Sororitas Crassus
(230 points per model, 1 model per unit)


Overdrive
This model may still fire all of its weapons in the Shooting phase even it Advanced during the preceding Movement phase.

Design notes: