Switch Theme:

Would you play with a known scalper?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
Would you play with a known scalper?
Yes, I'd play games with them. Behavior outside the gaming room doesn't factor into it.
No, I would refuse. Scalpers should not feel welcome in the gaming community.
Other/Show results

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Philadelphia PA

Lammia wrote:
stroller wrote:
Wonders how a scalper gets "known". How DOES Charlie get hold of 50 copies of something on or before day 1 anyway, without the complicity of the store manager?

If they're a reasonable human, sure. why not? Don't approve of scalping (jealousy? they got there first?) but it's not a crime.
Well, in this example, they openly claim it...


Yeah, the bragging is definitely an aggravating factor in this. If it was a side activity I came across someone doing there might be more leeway, but the kind of person who brags about being a gakky person is not the kind of person I want to game with.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Someone being a scalper isn't going to stop me playing against them. What might, is if they're a donkey-cave about it, but then it's more about the person's attitude/personality than their actions.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

would folk who wouldn't play a scalper play at a store that sells some second hand stuff a higher than the original retail price?

and if you would how abo if he second hand stuff is recent as opposed to ancient (eg a LE or something only Just out of production

 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





I mean if he brags arround , makes collectors misserable, i don't care, he is an ass and i have a longstanding rule of "i don't play with asses".

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Not Online!!! wrote:
I mean if he brags arround , makes collectors misserable, i don't care, he is an ass and i have a longstanding rule of "i don't play with asses".


Yeah that for me is the important part. If someone brags about being an arse, they probably wouldn't be much fun to play against? You have to enjoy the games you play, I don't have as much time as I would like to play against people I get along with let alone someone like that?

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
would folk who wouldn't play a scalper play at a store that sells some second hand stuff a higher than the original retail price?

and if you would how abo if he second hand stuff is recent as opposed to ancient (eg a LE or something only Just out of production
It depends. If the're selling sprues for limited, sold out kits the answer is no. If it's bits or overly popular kits then I only have a problem with their pricing structure.

I also wouldn't buy/play around discontinued sprues or boxes. Old models are ok though.

   
Made in fi
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






 insaniak wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:

I'm going to hate both the scalper and the company that generates artificial scarcity, thank you very much..

While you're there, you might as well also hate the person who is willing to buy from a scalper, since ultimately they are the reason the scalper does what they do. As much as the problem was born from artificial scarcity, if people refused to pay twice the original retail price for something they don't actually need, the scalper wouldn't have a business.

Although I strongly suspect that people overestimate how much impact the scalpers actually have on stock availability. If there is enough demand for a product to crash the company's website on release day, a couple of dozen copies winding up on eBay were far less likely to affect your chances of buying it than the several thousand other people trying to buy it at the same time as you. The lion's share of the blame should surely be on the company that keeps deliberately under-producing to fuel release-day demand.


Totally agree with this. I'm not at all convinced that anyone's specific copy of an item was sold out because someone bought 2000 copies a second before they did. That sort of thinking is delusional.

But while we're on the topic of "would you play against....?" I can say that I never play against randos. Therefore I suppose I should have answered "No", because I dont know any scalpers. But am grateful for being able to buy unobtanium items, and have done so a few times, paying through the nose, but I knew what I was getting into.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/06/18 19:46:31


 
   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Ottawa

 Overread wrote:
Scalping comes in various forms. There's the guy who buys one or two boxes to upsell for a few £ more at one end to the guy who buys 20-40-100 boxes and then marks up the price and even inflates the secondhand price on ebay and such by volume.

Both are scalpers. One is so small time that it hardly impacts anything and a small price increase isn't really hurting the market much. IT hurts in volume if loads and loads of people did it on their own.

The other is having a real meaningful impact all on their own.

Yeah, I'm talking more about the latter. Those who spend in the 4-5 figures at every new release and essentially run their own under-the-table game store.

Cadians, Sisters of Battle (Valorous Heart), Drukhari (Obsidian Rose)

Read my Drukhari short stories: Chronicles of Commorragh 
   
Made in ca
Excited Doom Diver






For me, it depends on the person, not what they do.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

 BuFFo wrote:
I'm a scalper. Everyone here is. Everyone here has bought something, then at some point, sold it for profit. Nothing immoral about that.

If you ostracize people who sell their property, there will be no one around.
No. Really no.
I don't sell anything past what I paid. If you buy something and add value at some level, you justify the profit.

Shops exist to sell original stock, and they add a mark-up to earn a living.
Scalpers who buy purely to add their own overhead are blight on the hobby, and others like it. Why don't they set up a company, and buy from suppliers, making even more profit? They're too lazy.

If you think everyone is a scalper, why do you think there is such reaction to threads like this?

4000 pts - 4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block



Dublin, Ireland

I wouldn't care, unless, of course, they were an unpleasant person to game against, then no. To be fair, if they're the big-mouth-braggart type, as you seem to indicate, then no; I'd not (usually) play against them, but only because I don't like that kind of person, not because they're a scalper.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Illumini wrote:
While scalping does not bother me too much, your our own argument can be taken the other way too.

Would you play with a known [vocal white suprematist]?
I think if you're making comparisons between scalpers and racists, then we've definitely hit "absurd".

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Lotta scalpers showing themselves in this thread. Pretty cool!
   
Made in us
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





United States

 Skinnereal wrote:
 BuFFo wrote:
I'm a scalper. Everyone here is. Everyone here has bought something, then at some point, sold it for profit. Nothing immoral about that.

If you ostracize people who sell their property, there will be no one around.
No. Really no.
I don't sell anything past what I paid. If you buy something and add value at some level, you justify the profit.

Shops exist to sell original stock, and they add a mark-up to earn a living.
Scalpers who buy purely to add their own overhead are blight on the hobby, and others like it. Why don't they set up a company, and buy from suppliers, making even more profit? They're too lazy.

If you think everyone is a scalper, why do you think there is such reaction to threads like this?


Because people, most people, don't actually understand how property works, or what ownership is.

If I buy 100 boxes of a new release, that's an exchange of property between me and GW. GW sells me something, and it's mine.

If I want to sell those 100 boxes for a profit, that is, once again, between me and the buyer. It's no one else's business.

I can look at ebay, bartertown, etc.. and see thousands of people selling models they bought 30 years ago or 3 days ago. It's their property, and through negotiation, a price is set that both people agree to, and it's no one else's business. If you want to sell a figure, old or new, for 1 dollar or 1 billion, and you find a buyer, great! Moral actions are wonderful! Trade is great! The price set is between you and the buyer, and no one else.

Too many collectivists subjectively rationalize some floating abstraction, such as "the hobby", and drop context and apply it to property. Basically, many people FEEL they own "the hobby" or have some mystical ownership to figures sitting on a shelf that aren't their property. Unless you trade with another person who owns the figure, you don't own their property.

I proudly buy figures new, and then sell whatever I want to other people who voluntarily agree to buy the items so we both can profit.

I mean, GW takes 2 dollars worth of materials ( and labor, IP, etc) and makes a figure, and sells it to my local gaming store owner for 20 bucks. The store owner then charges me 40. I buy it at 40, and charge someone 60. And that person can sell it for 5 million for all I care. It's none of my business, and I hope they profit in life!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/18 22:01:10


Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality" 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Pryamid schemes are illegal

   
Made in ca
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Grim Forgotten Nihilist Forest.

I guess it depends if they're insufferable or not. It's a bias but I feel like most scalpers would probably not be the kind of person i'd want at my table.

Successful Trades.

Twoshoeevans: Kmilliete89. gainsay

Flesh Tearer's 3k
Aeldari 3kpts
Slaves to Darkness.3k

 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





Northumberland

I think this goes beyond whether or not they are a scalper. This is just are they a prick or not? Sounds like if they are bragging about it as you used in your example, then they do indeed fall into the aforementioned category. In which case its fair enough to say I don't want to play with that person.

As Shadowbrand says above, your immediate bias of a scalper is that yeah they are probably a prick. Possibly not always the case but maybe 80:20. I mean remember all those people at the start of covid who bought up anti bacterial gel or whatever so that other people couldn't buy it and tried to sell it on for profit.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





Yes. I don't really care, if it's okay when GW over-charges you and takes advantage of planned scarcity how is it any different from a scalper doing the same?


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





-Guardsman- wrote:
I ask because there's some guy in my local Warhammer community who proudly admits to being a scalper, and I swore to myself that I would never play a 40k game with him (unless a tournament pits me against him). But I wonder if this sentiment is actually prevalent, or if some players leave their feelings on such things at the door when it comes to actual gaming.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every local gaming community should come together to ostracize scalpers.


I voted "other" as I don't play in clubs or tournaments. For me its just a casual hobby at home.

There is something to be said for "how far it goes". While reselling hobby luxeries seems fairly harmless to me, I had thought about it this way; what if it weren't just hobby items? What if this guy was also bragging about selling medical products in such a fashion, and if those products were critical supplies in very short demand?

With that much pondering( probably not enough ), I think my answer to them might be "Son, when you change your greedy ways then maybe we'll see about having that game."

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think the key difference is that people respect that GW profits from the sales, but that they are a key manufacturer of the product itself. Without them profiting from the sales they wouldn't make the game and products to start with.

Similarly the local retailer is liked because they bring the product to the local area from the manufacturer. Their shop not only helps provide physical sale of products; but it also might well support local clubs and local recruitment of new customers - ergo gamers.


Ergo whilst both are marking up the price above base production costs - ergo they are profiting - they also bring direct benefits to the customer.



A scalper, however, isn't doing any of that. They are buying a product and selling it purely for the profit. There's no net gain for the consumer in having a scalper. It's an un-needed middleman that isn't facilitating the customer getting the product; nor aiding local market growth.

They are purely intercepting consumer products and marking up the price because they can.




That's why people are "anti-scalper". The scalper isn't helping the consumer, the market, the product, the industry or the hobby. Even if they are part of the community themselves and spend their excess profits on the hobby its not actually helping because those excess profits are purely generated from the hobby money of other customers in the first place.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 BuFFo wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
I ask because there's some guy in my local Warhammer community who proudly admits to being a scalper, and I swore to myself that I would never play a 40k game with him (unless a tournament pits me against him). But I wonder if this sentiment is actually prevalent, or if some players leave their feelings on such things at the door when it comes to actual gaming.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every local gaming community should come together to ostracize scalpers.


I'm a scalper. Everyone here is. Everyone here has bought something, then at some point, sold it for profit.


Speak for yourself. Indeed I’ve got a pretty successful trading group going. Just been to the post office sending goodies to the good, so they don’t have to deal with the greedy.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't believe I've ever sold any of my figures for any sort of profit. Usually I don't even break even, I only sell what I'm bored with ("no longer sparks joy" if you want) to free up mental and physical space.
Scalpers, not to be mistaken with normal businesses, are a blight that is actively harmful to the community as they form bottlenecks of goods . Their existence adds nothing of substance to the community, they do not offer any extra services to warrant their extortionist prices.

In general, they deserve to wake up with their cat's vomit in their slippers every day of their lives.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

I mean I've had the fortune of buying something ten to twenty years ago, and then due to its natural rarity its made me some money when I let it go years later because its no longer of any use to me. That's not scalping which I get the impression some might be mistaking it for.
I mean congrats to anyone selling old Blood Bowl models or other items hugely sought over for what you paid for it (hopefully adding inflation) but that doesn't really demonize anyone else who lets the ebay gods decide.


However preordering twenty of a limited product because you can flip it for double its value the week of release is in my mind a scummy practice and would be scalping.

I can see why some people in politics have raised it as an issue regarding recent trends such as the PS5 and Xbox Series X ongoing shenanigans and its effect on the average consumer. Not that I expect anything to change.

"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

I can see why some people in politics have raised it as an issue regarding recent trends such as the PS5 and Xbox Series X ongoing shenanigans and its effect on the average consumer. Not that I expect anything to change.


It's been a slowly boiling issue for a while. The Pandemic basically had a lot of people out of work and some decided that flipping high priced collectors or limited edition or limited production goods, was a good way to make some quick cash. Esp when the pandemic started making a lot of things harder to get simply by a supply and demand issue so that it wasn't just collectors items that were getting hit.

In some markets, eg sports tickets, its been an issue for decades that has steadily got worse. I recall some of the official sports/music event ticket firms would sell out of tickets in seconds when they went live; with a large number then being resold (scalped) on the company's own secondhand trading website.


I think that the Pandemic has finally made governments wake up that the internet is making it much much easier for scalping to take place. For all our cries 40K actually has very little of an issue compared to some markets where sometimes scalper prices are the only way to get things unless your die hard lucky to get in early.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

-Guardsman- wrote:
I ask because there's some guy in my local Warhammer community who proudly admits to being a scalper, and I swore to myself that I would never play a 40k game with him (unless a tournament pits me against him). But I wonder if this sentiment is actually prevalent, or if some players leave their feelings on such things at the door when it comes to actual gaming.

I'm firmly of the opinion that every local gaming community should come together to ostracize scalpers.


In your own opening post you've decided you would still play against them. Why wouldn't you just refuse to play or quit or just not go to an event this known scalper is also attending.
If you feel that strongly about it then hold to your convictions and make no exceptions.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I mean I've had the fortune of buying something ten to twenty years ago, and then due to its natural rarity its made me some money when I let it go years later because its no longer of any use to me. That's not scalping which I get the impression some might be mistaking it for.
I mean congrats to anyone selling old Blood Bowl models or other items hugely sought over for what you paid for it (hopefully adding inflation) but that doesn't really demonize anyone else who lets the ebay gods decide.

Monetizing nostalgia is not scalping for sure. Jim Sterling has a good video on why it's stupid and bad, but it's another subject altogether.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Coastal Bliss in the Shadow of Sizewell





Suffolk, where the Aliens roam.

Cronch wrote:

Monetizing nostalgia is not scalping for sure. Jim Sterling has a good video on why it's stupid and bad, but it's another subject altogether.


Aye to be fair I get that, trying to track down some old epic Space Marines to put on my titan bases is all but abandoned at the mo due to the fact most have been brought up by resellers who have put a premium on them that has made them way too expensive for scatter terrain options.

However I'd still send my own treasures for a profit as at least 90% of the stuff I have sold over of the years has been for well under what I paid, so I'll take those bonus sales when I actually make some money were I can, still not talking a fortune, but the hobby budget needs all the help it can get.

Definitely damned if you do, damned if you don't.


"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.

Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

I buy big box sets like the Christmas army boxes and keep bits and sell the loss. Rarely make money on them, often just break even but get stuff I want. I have done it with limited run boxes but only when I want bits of it. Never Buy a box to sell that I don’t want at all. Does that make me a bad person. I get a kit or two I want, everyone else gets market price other kits. With the marine Xmas a while ago I kept the repulsor and sold the marines. They sold for less than a new box of them. I got a repulsor free but had to list and post all the other stuff. Very rare you get something that is genuinely limited even rarer that you should sell stuff for more than they are worth. Seems to be an odd thing to exclude someone for. As someone with limited funds it makes the hobby affordable.

I make more money buying limited models and selling them painted. That’s where the profit is. For example, selling ghaz on unbuilt the going rate was around £45. I sold mine painted for £125.
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




Andykp wrote:
I buy big box sets like the Christmas army boxes and keep bits and sell the loss. Rarely make money on them, often just break even but get stuff I want. I have done it with limited run boxes but only when I want bits of it. Never Buy a box to sell that I don’t want at all. Does that make me a bad person. I get a kit or two I want, everyone else gets market price other kits. With the marine Xmas a while ago I kept the repulsor and sold the marines. They sold for less than a new box of them. I got a repulsor free but had to list and post all the other stuff. Very rare you get something that is genuinely limited even rarer that you should sell stuff for more than they are worth. Seems to be an odd thing to exclude someone for. As someone with limited funds it makes the hobby affordable.

I make more money buying limited models and selling them painted. That’s where the profit is. For example, selling ghaz on unbuilt the going rate was around £45. I sold mine painted for £125.
See, buying a kit because you want part of it and reselling what you don't want is fine. Good even, everyone gets the models they want.

It's when you buy a limited kit up with the intent of upselling the whole thing that it becomes a problem.

The gain on that Ghaz is surprising, but you added time and effort in painting it. So you earnt it.

   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

Lammia wrote:
Andykp wrote:
I buy big box sets like the Christmas army boxes and keep bits and sell the loss. Rarely make money on them, often just break even but get stuff I want. I have done it with limited run boxes but only when I want bits of it. Never Buy a box to sell that I don’t want at all. Does that make me a bad person. I get a kit or two I want, everyone else gets market price other kits. With the marine Xmas a while ago I kept the repulsor and sold the marines. They sold for less than a new box of them. I got a repulsor free but had to list and post all the other stuff. Very rare you get something that is genuinely limited even rarer that you should sell stuff for more than they are worth. Seems to be an odd thing to exclude someone for. As someone with limited funds it makes the hobby affordable.

I make more money buying limited models and selling them painted. That’s where the profit is. For example, selling ghaz on unbuilt the going rate was around £45. I sold mine painted for £125.
See, buying a kit because you want part of it and reselling what you don't want is fine. Good even, everyone gets the models they want.

It's when you buy a limited kit up with the intent of upselling the whole thing that it becomes a problem.

The gain on that Ghaz is surprising, but you added time and effort in painting it. So you earnt it.


Cheers. That’s my thoughts. I don’t harm anyone, in fact I sell kits off at reduced price to folk. The painting side of it I do sometimes buy a kit just to paint and sell, but not limited ones and just ones I really want to paint but don’t have need for in any of my armies. Still surprises me how much people will pay for a half decently painted model. I don’t knock them out cheap and sell them as “pro painted”. That stuff is worse than scalpers. I paint them well and with care and love then sell them on and am honest about it all.

Some stuff is crazy prices. I wanted 3 more cultists of the abyss, so bought a box and sold the rest off as single models and made more on them than the cost of the box x2. Madness.
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: