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How do you feel about the double-turn?
10 - Fantastic rule, favorite part of AoS.
9
8
7 - This rule generally increases enjoyment of the game.
6
5 - Apathetic and/or feel the benefits are even with the downsides.
4
3 - This rule generally reduces enjoyment of the game.
2
1
0 - Awful rule, worst part of AoS.

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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Thadin wrote:
I tried to play their game last time this argument came up. Not from tneva82 specifically but another with that belief.

I posted the lists from a game I had actually played where there was no double turn seized, stated who had gone first, and was interested not just in the end result, but seeing peoples reasoning for thinking why it was who won. Turns out, none of the people who were heatedly arguing that no double turn = determine who wins just by list and first turn, took the challenge to totally prove us wrong.

I had some more games/lists I could have posted, but it seemed like they weren't interested in that thought exercise.
Heh, I remember that. When push came to shove there wasn't even an effort made to back up the theory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Eh, it's pretty straightforward: GW can make a zero-cost change by adding a line of text to the next GHB that removes random initiative from that battlepack. They then make money in sales from people who were previously kept away by the rule. People who dislike the change, who we can see are outnumbered anyways, don't have an alternative wargame to turn to. There is no competing product with random initiative. It is a simple choice between making more money or less money, one of many where GW has chosen the latter.


Your perspective is just truly bizarre. I highly doubt this one specific rule has kept anyone away from Age of Sigmar - anyone who says so I think is probably not telling the whole story and using the rule as an excuse to justify a much more complex and nuanced dislike of the game as a whole due to a variety of factors.
I have had more than one person start AoS, enjoy the gameplay, but explicitly leave because they did not like the double turn. There were people right in front of me, saying that rule is why they don't play AoS. And your response is to assert that you know their opinion is something different.

I previously asked you to back up the assumption that players who voted 0 above probably have never played AoS. You did not. I asked again, you did not. Now it was a 'joke' after being pressed to back it up.

FWIW, I don't think players that are kept away by random initiative have much representation in the above poll--people who don't play AoS are far less likely to be visiting an AoS forum. Which gets into another matter; this is a poll of people who on average enjoy AoS. It is skewed towards a positive reception and still shows dislike heavily outweighing like. Any competent game designer would see that as something which needs to be addressed.

To that point, GW has repeatedly shown they do believe the double should be addressed; evidenced by their repeated attempts to do so.

At any rate I've nothing more to say to you, given the bad faith demonstrated.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/20 19:27:02


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ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

I previously asked you to back up the assumption that players who voted 0 above probably have never played AoS. You did not. I asked again, you did not. Now it was a 'joke' after being pressed to back it up.


Is that what you were on about? Seriously? Are you ill? Do you not understand what a "" emoji indicates? It was a joke from the get-go you troll.

To that point, GW has repeatedly shown they do believe the double should be addressed; evidenced by their repeated attempts to do so.


You mean their statements that the double turn is a core aspect of the Age of Sigmar experience and will not be eliminated?

At any rate I've nothing more to say to you, given the bad faith demonstrated.




You're unbelievable.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Ah, good. We're at the insult flinging phase, huh?

GW wishes to keep the double-turn mechanic, but with the changes going in to 3rd Edition AoS, they stated that it had issues with it and changes they were interested in making, to lessen the impact of outlier armies. The changes were largely minimal and hasn't really changed how dominant shooting is, and how dominant certain armies are.

If there are issues with the mechanic, as they've said there is, what happens when the mechanic cannot be appropriately balanced? Bandaid fixes until it gets removed for better mechanics.

Companies will rarely say, "Hey, this decision we made? It's actually bad"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/20 19:53:34


 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Funny thing is I was running tournaments at the start of the edition with a house rule that random initiative didn't start until round 3--the point was to help players get practice with tourney armies in the new edition so deliberately acting to ensure games didn't end prematurely made sense. I later removed that house rule, and players immediately asked for it back.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

the house rule sounds awesome, I'd play that.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

That house rule is actually a pretty fair compromise between the two sides. Kudos and Exalted!
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






It leads to some very tough decisions round 3; the strength of a double is nice, but is it worth letting the opponent pull an objective?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/21 04:12:53


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Procrastinator extraordinaire





Edinburgh, UK

So had my second game of AoS last night, only 1000 points but I got the second turn between 2 and 3 which honestly swung the game heavily enough where I just ran away on points.

I feel like it may not have been such an issue in a bigger game, but definitely when there's limited models and targets, having that extra turn is brutal. The ability to fall back and charge bladegheists into units with that double turn did some nasty damage and reviving 2D6 chainrasps that realistically should have been killed in the following turn felt pretty dirty.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I just played another game of AoS where my opponent getting a double turn basically handed the game over to me.

I'm beginning to think my deepkin setup (where ive got relatively defensive units for deepkin and i run flip tides so I get All Fight First round 2) is just highly insulated from the swingiest nastiest double turn (bottom of 1 into top of 2) that basically allows the opponent to dictate the entire opening engagement.

My opponent got the double and I let him know right off the bat "OK, but on your second turn keep in mind all my stuff fights first."

and he was like "Oh...uh, guess I'll fight a couple of sharks then"

"Alright, I'm gonna use this command ability to move my turtle right up next to one of the sharks youre moving in on so there's basically no way for you to not be within 3" of the turtle if you charge the shark."


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






It won't break the game in every instance, but it will typically be very strong for anyone who can get it.

Armies with especially potent magic phases, shooting phases, or charging phases(note, charge, not the fight phase). And those armies, Sons of Behemat and Archaeon lists excepted, are the current best for tournament and casual play.

Now mind you, those armies would be strong already without the chance for double turns, but these lists also benefit from putting themselves in situations that heavily benefit from a double turn. Going for minimal drops in a shooting/magic list, then forcing your opponent to take first turn puts you in an advantage.

You get an extra command point, you force the enemy to move up the board to start claiming objectives, which in 3.0, are largely center of the board. You force them to either start losing on objectives or they come in range of your guns and magic. Then, you have the choice as second player to take the double turn when it's an advantage for you, or if it's not that great of a time, just give the enemy priority and bank the 46%(?) chance to get a double turn for the next round, when you might be able to just completely wipe them.

Edit: didn't see your post before I made mine, Scotsman. What army were you facing? Your setup of Deepkin seems insulated against MELEE army double turns, which really aren't that big of a deal in the grand scheme. But, we're out of the age of where you should expect enemies that are all melee to be contenders, excepting a few outliers, like Deepkin, IJ and SoB.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/21 14:40:50


 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






It is totally viable to create an army designed to give the opponent a 1-2 double then gank them. It's a powerful strategy I'm surprised we don't see for often.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Maybe the risk of it outweighs any benefit it would gain? Letting KO, lumineth, etc etc get a double turn on purpose doesn't sound like a smart idea to me.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Thadin wrote:
Maybe the risk of it outweighs any benefit it would gain? Letting KO, lumineth, etc etc get a double turn on purpose doesn't sound like a smart idea to me.


This is exactly why i built my one six-man unit of eels as the shield eels. I havent faced a shooty army yet, but being able to say "OK, you can only shoot my guys with the 3++ invulnerable save" seems like a good, winning strat.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
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There's a higher chance of the double turn not happening than there is happening, so unless the list can do both I don't see it really being viable as the majority of the time you'd be sitting there, not getting double turned.
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Ishlaen with 3+ Unrendable is really good, but mind you for their points their wounds are relatively low. Mortal wound output can give them the works.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Rihgu wrote:
There's a higher chance of the double turn not happening than there is happening, so unless the list can do both I don't see it really being viable as the majority of the time you'd be sitting there, not getting double turned.
The winner of the initiative roll chooses; they can voluntarily give the opponent first.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
There's a higher chance of the double turn not happening than there is happening, so unless the list can do both I don't see it really being viable as the majority of the time you'd be sitting there, not getting double turned.
The winner of the initiative roll chooses; they can voluntarily give the opponent first.


Oh, right, I guess in this case you get first turn so you have the tiebreaker in the roll-off.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tone down alpha strikes (especially ranged alpha strikes) and get rid of the double turn and the game would be in a better place. Right now they're kind-of justifying one another in a way that doesn't really produce a particularly fun game, whether or not it's "balanced." Being able to double your opponent after they remove 1/4 of your army on the top of T1 before you do anything isn't a satisfying kind of "balance."

The alpha strikes are also generally limited to the most ruthlessly competitive ranged lists (plus IJ now) too, so the effect isn't equally distributed - as you get down into more normal lists the value of the double goes up and the value of the alpha goes down, which means that the double ceases to be a check on oppressive alphas and becomes just oppressive itself in the other direction. Either way, countering one type of NPE with another isn't a great way to design your game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/22 05:33:34


 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation






It has got better this edition. It doesn't seem as powerful and I don't feel like I'm just sitting picking my dead models up when I do get double turned. It's still a truly terrible mechanic though.

Chaos | Tau | Space Wolves
NH | SCE | Nurgle
 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I am one of the dreaded "people who don't play AOS and don't like Double Turn" whose opinions apparently shouldn't count for some reason.

It's true, it's not the only thing that's preventing me - I don't want to base my stuff on 32mm instead of 25mm and I'm a bit leery of how GW does rules releases and so on.

But I'd say mechanically Double Turn is the most offputting thing to me. And I think it's fine not to play a game because of something like that. If GW got rid of it I'd be more disposed toward trying the game, but as is if I'm playing a GW game I'm gonna be negotiating in my second language with strangers here and I'm not as confident or comfortable to ask for no Double Turn or whatever else with the local gamers.

   
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Keeper of the Flame





West Lafayette, IN

Double turn is a piss poor bit of game design whether it's in a game I like or hate.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





yukishiro1 wrote:
Tone down alpha strikes (especially ranged alpha strikes) and get rid of the double turn and the game would be in a better place. Right now they're kind-of justifying one another in a way that doesn't really produce a particularly fun game, whether or not it's "balanced." Being able to double your opponent after they remove 1/4 of your army on the top of T1 before you do anything isn't a satisfying kind of "balance."

The alpha strikes are also generally limited to the most ruthlessly competitive ranged lists (plus IJ now) too, so the effect isn't equally distributed - as you get down into more normal lists the value of the double goes up and the value of the alpha goes down, which means that the double ceases to be a check on oppressive alphas and becomes just oppressive itself in the other direction. Either way, countering one type of NPE with another isn't a great way to design your game.


I think thats part of their design ethos though - the alpha strike. Essentially wargames were a lot like chess in that they were broken into three parts: the begin game (movement) into position, the middle game (the majority of your piece exchange , combats) and the end game (finalizing your position to declare a winner).

They totally removed begin game because begin game was boring and let you jump right into killing stuff turn 1. Intentionally. I know one of the things about Conquest that started getting to me was that the AOS guys wanted Conquest to also be like that. "Moving into position is boring, we should be able to just start fighting as soon as we come on". So far thats not really a thing in that game but the desire from a good portion of the player base WAS a thing.

Based on a few years, well more... since Alpha strike was always a 40k feature and then AOS just took it and cranked it to 11, of people loving that there is no maneuver phase really anymore, I don't see alpha strikes ever going away from GW games.

My preference is for alpha strike to be rare and costly, and also a gamble. But I know that won't happen in GW land. I can deal with alpha strike even though its not my favorite thing and prefer it limited a lot more.

Double turn is a hard no go for me.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






yukishiro1 wrote:
Tone down alpha strikes (especially ranged alpha strikes) and get rid of the double turn and the game would be in a better place. Right now they're kind-of justifying one another in a way that doesn't really produce a particularly fun game, whether or not it's "balanced." Being able to double your opponent after they remove 1/4 of your army on the top of T1 before you do anything isn't a satisfying kind of "balance."

The alpha strikes are also generally limited to the most ruthlessly competitive ranged lists (plus IJ now) too, so the effect isn't equally distributed - as you get down into more normal lists the value of the double goes up and the value of the alpha goes down, which means that the double ceases to be a check on oppressive alphas and becomes just oppressive itself in the other direction. Either way, countering one type of NPE with another isn't a great way to design your game.
Ranged/magic 'alpha strike' (usually not alpha strikes at all, just gun lines) lists benefit more from the double existing than anything else. Anyone who wants to see those reigned in would be against the double, people who want to see the double around are supporting that such armies should be the strongest.

Actual alpha strike lists, the ones that go all-in turn 1, are almost comically easy to counter in 3rd edition.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/22 16:54:16


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

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ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
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 auticus wrote:


Based on a few years, well more... since Alpha strike was always a 40k feature and then AOS just took it and cranked it to 11, of people loving that there is no maneuver phase really anymore, I don't see alpha strikes ever going away from GW games.


...I have to ask, are you actually saying here that alpha strike in AOS is WORSE than in warhammer 40,000?

We're talking about warhammer 40,000 the miniatures game, right? The one where everyone has Range = Yes or Movement = Yes and if you dont create a big giant line of sight blocking wall in the centerline of the board the game is literally decided by the who gets first turn roll?

I'm playing these games back to back right now, and while sigmar doesnt have MUCH of the 'maneuver your units into position' phase, I can at least point to numerous examples where my tactic for a turn was "I moved a unit back out of threat range to avoid it getting killed" which is just simply not a thing in Warhammer "The Most Basic Unit In the Game Has a 30" Range Now" 40,000.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

I think the Alpha Strike focus is the result of a focus on competitive play. Competitive players want to maximize their advantages and minimize their disadvantages, as such they build lists to maximize their potential of destroying the enemy as early as possible. Competitive event organizers want the game to play fast and wrap up decisively early so that there is a clear definitive winner after 1.5 hours of playtime (or whatever the standard is now) so that they can build a 3 round tournament plus lunch break into an 8 hour day. As such GW builds a ruleset which plays fast and lethal to accommodate, but the side effect of that is that by doing so you hand competitive players a lot of tools through which they can potentially find a way to end the game on turn 1.

 Just Tony wrote:
Double turn is a piss poor bit of game design whether it's in a game I like or hate.


It really isn't. I'm the first person to say GWs game design sucks in general, but double turns are not a new concept in wargaming, and can work just fine when the game is actually designed around and for it from the ground up - but it requires a pretty big departure from a lot of the design "standards" that GW seems to build its game design philosophy around, and because of that the implementation in AoS is lacking.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






In general, the alpha strike of your average army is lower in AoS. For some armies though, it's just as potent.

Ironjawz - Movement = yes
Kharadron overlords - Movement = Yes + guns
Shootcast Eternals - Movement and range = yes
Tzeentch - Movement = yes
Lumineth - Range and movement (build depends, foxes or sentinels?) = yes

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
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- 2750 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I would say of those only SCE is the real alpha strike. They teleport down and that's it, bar some abilities like translocation. Compared to KO or Ironjawz where they can do the same thing just as effectively on later rounds. It isn't an alpha strike when it is just how the list behaves all the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/22 19:36:02


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





 the_scotsman wrote:
 auticus wrote:


Based on a few years, well more... since Alpha strike was always a 40k feature and then AOS just took it and cranked it to 11, of people loving that there is no maneuver phase really anymore, I don't see alpha strikes ever going away from GW games.


...I have to ask, are you actually saying here that alpha strike in AOS is WORSE than in warhammer 40,000?

We're talking about warhammer 40,000 the miniatures game, right? The one where everyone has Range = Yes or Movement = Yes and if you dont create a big giant line of sight blocking wall in the centerline of the board the game is literally decided by the who gets first turn roll?

I'm playing these games back to back right now, and while sigmar doesnt have MUCH of the 'maneuver your units into position' phase, I can at least point to numerous examples where my tactic for a turn was "I moved a unit back out of threat range to avoid it getting killed" which is just simply not a thing in Warhammer "The Most Basic Unit In the Game Has a 30" Range Now" 40,000.


I quit 40k in like 2016 so my point of reference to how 40k operates is rooted in the beginnings of 7th edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the Alpha Strike focus is the result of a focus on competitive play. Competitive players want to maximize their advantages and minimize their disadvantages, as such they build lists to maximize their potential of destroying the enemy as early as possible. Competitive event organizers want the game to play fast and wrap up decisively early so that there is a clear definitive winner after 1.5 hours of playtime (or whatever the standard is now) so that they can build a 3 round tournament plus lunch break into an 8 hour day. As such GW builds a ruleset which plays fast and lethal to accommodate, but the side effect of that is that by doing so you hand competitive players a lot of tools through which they can potentially find a way to end the game on turn 1.

 Just Tony wrote:
Double turn is a piss poor bit of game design whether it's in a game I like or hate.


It really isn't. I'm the first person to say GWs game design sucks in general, but double turns are not a new concept in wargaming, and can work just fine when the game is actually designed around and for it from the ground up - but it requires a pretty big departure from a lot of the design "standards" that GW seems to build its game design philosophy around, and because of that the implementation in AoS is lacking.


I can imagine a more casual game not being the 1-2 turn stomp good game, move on to the next game type play I'm used to so I will say that I can align pretty well with that. Since most of my games in AOS, even the ones I was trying to make more casual and fun, were dominated by very competitive builds that were about ending the game by turn 2... that is a lot of my point of reference for hating it as much as I do.

But I'm curious, what other games have double turns? I have never encountered a game where my opponent could do two full turns in a row without any response from me before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/22 20:05:51


 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Not saying I'm a huge fan of the mechanic or anything, but when you say "two full turns in a row" it is pretty important to caveat that both armies acts in the combat phase. It is not without any response, and indeed some armies do most of their damage in that phase anyway.

Again, not playing down that losing out on movement, magic, shooting, and charging during a double turn is a super big deal. But the way the combat phase works is some degree of mitigation.
   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





Yeah you can activate in combat. But you can't move. You can't shoot. You can't cast. You are literally standing there for two full turns doing nothing but reacting and removing models.

And if I'm a shooty / mortal wound ranged min/max spam army and you are a melee army - I can guarantee you that when I double turn you my stuff is not in combat or will be as minimally in combat / you chewing on garbage units of mine as possible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/22 21:19:39


 
   
 
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