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terminus wrote:Please, let's not start an argument in a rumor thread. The majority of their HQs do not alter the way their army functions, only three do, and only one in any way that's significant (if mass DC is considered significant). Space Wolves were just an example. BA librarians' powers are comparable to C:SM, Tyranids, and even IG (they just have weaker psykers and set choices), so this is simply a 5th edition trend. I understood your point, I just don't think your envy is warranted (at least as far as specifically directed at Blood Angels), as the "levels of synergy, fluff and theme" are no higher than any other 5th edition codex.

Any argument started with your post.

I made a general statement and you felt the need to dissect my post. All I ask is that you dissect things I actually said/meant. I made a statement about how I as a chaos player am envious of a 5th edition codex like the blood angels with its strong theme, synergy stemming from leading units, and fluff. You made a reply about how good/bad the hq synergy/psyker powers/tycho were.

You are still saying things like "only one in any way that's significant" in response to me saying that the new codex has things in it that alter other units. I don't care if blood angels have the worst force multiplying/altering choices in the game because they still have something whereas older codexes have nothing like that.

Then: "BA librarians powers are comparable to C:SM, tyranids, and even IG". As I said before, I was surprised that a chapter that is all about getting up close and personal, and losing control of their thoughts/actions would have a strong (note: I didn't say "strongest" or "stronger than xxxxx" chapter/army) psyker power list. You should also recognize that all of the codexes you listed are updated for 5th edition.

Finally: "I just don't think your envy is warranted as the levels are no higher than any other 5th edition codex". A 4th edition codex user is unwarranted to envy a 5th edition codex that is leaps and bounds ahead of his own in terms of synergy, fluff, and theme?

I state the obvious advantages of units or rules when it is not so clear, but to some it seems farfetched especially when you are trying to argue with people that make statements such as

terminus wrote:And there's absolutely zero reason to field tactical squads

I think that the sanguinary squad with a sanguinary priest would make a decent unit, hitting on 3's wounding on 3's.

DELETED BY ORDER OF THE INQUISITION

What does the deathmask do?

I think it makes people WS1 if they fail a LD. check.

Shelegelah wrote:I'm with you on the envy, Halsfield. Alas, poor Chaos... You're falling behind the bend.

Oh well, at least the Terminator Lord/Sorcerer kit is still as badass as ever.

CSM have some o the best looking models, we are in dire need. i want a new codex!

We do indeed have some of the best looking models, but we also have some pretty bad ones. I'm not a fan of the plague marines, they just don't seem to go together very well to me(although I've only purchased a single squad of them, might have been a bad batch), and we all know the brick of a Chaos Dread is an eyesore beyond belief. (Although this is pretty handily mitigated by the glorious Forgeworld models. Oh god they're wonderful.)

So yeah, besides the aforementioned, we do have some killer models.

So imagine how awesome they'll be after the next re-do.

dont tease me with the thoughts! BTW PM forgeworld conversions are EXCELLENT!!

sooooo i migt be converting some CSM from BA

Anyone want 7 painted BA tactical squads? :( I guess they can be cannon fodder in my apoc games

Kirasu wrote:Anyone want 7 painted BA tactical squads? :( I guess they can be cannon fodder in my apoc games

That makes me sadface for your army.

too bad they cant be like Space Wolves, where the only real visual difference between Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, and Wolf Guard are the pack markings.

Kirasu wrote:Anyone want 7 painted BA tactical squads? :( I guess they can be cannon fodder in my apoc games

Rip their arms off, give them close combat weapons & pistols = assault marines = useful again

Did a quick game of how expensive can I make a unit in the GW shop today 30 man Death company all with thunderhammers and jump packs, 6 with melta pistols and lemartes comes out to around 2200pts.

After reading through the book, especially looking at points, the army looks compitent, but not ridiculous.

-Mephiston is a tank, but a non-fearless, non-Independent Character tank that only moves faster than infantry if he uses a psychic power and has no invul save and costs alot. It's not that he isn't good, but you either give him a transport all to himself (presumably the rest of the thing is occupied by his awesomeness) or gamble on being able to get off a power every round.

-Only 1 of the characters is an eternal warrior and they're all fairly pricey. The eternal warrior has the Mephiston problem of not being an IC and being the most expensive of the group. Admittedly though he could still be worth it giving some solid buffs and being pretty brutal in combat.

-Sanguinary guard look hot, but at around 40 a model with no invul save to speak of, they fall apart to shooting real damn quick.

-Stormravens are solid, but really expensive for an AV12 limiting both how many you can take and the size of your army.

-Death company are nice, but without rending they lose a good bit of their impact, so you'll probably spend quite a bit more on upgrade weapons and they have the negative point of not being scoring and having rage. A 30 man blob of death company will probably be chasing a landspeeder like slowed puppies for the bulk of the game. The big motivation to take them seems more about the death company dread than any real stregth of the unit.

-The Librarian dread is awesome incarnate. With the right weapons and powers he could eat 30 Orks in a single combat round without breaking a sweat. He's not cheap, but he really shouldn't be for what he can do.

-Baal Predators get the same high marks as the Libby dread. There isn't much fierce competition in the FA section and getting a scouting fast pred that can take 3 flamer weapons is just plain amusing. Being able to scout 18" forward then move 6" and fire all 3 flame templates just screams to be abused and the cost is very reasonable.

-Fast Rhinos is the biggest change. Everything else is so much window dressing when the army pays a mere extra 15 points to have fast transports everywhere. Seems like a compitent blood angel build will just be some assault squads with sanguinary priests in fast rhinos everywhere.


The big stumbling block for the entire army is points. Points just keep falling into a vaccum until you've spent 2000pts and have an army with a model count of 25 which makes you really vulnerable to not getting first turn against IG. Despite all the madness you can do, it looks like a more conservative build with only a few shiny toys is probably a better approach.

Tony the guardsman wrote:I have a Mephiston!!!Owned!!!Just kidding
I just don't know if Mephiston has an invul or not,if would be really sad if he doesn't


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He would be the best model in the game if he does
AND PEOPLE!WATCH OUT, GW MAKE BETTER ARMIES EVERY MONTH TO MAKE YOU SPEND MONEY,DUN FALL FOR IT!!!

He doesnt

LOL... Mephiston and Solo Angel Man don't have the normal IC/MC benefit of move through cover or Masterful Rider.

the sanguinator doesnt either?

I didn't think he was an IC, so he wouldn't have those unless specifically in his profile.

IronfrontAlex wrote:the sanguinator doesnt either?

no. he has wings though and a 2+/3++
mephiston just has 2+

I'm wondering if the Sanguinor would be better than Mephiston.


Why are all your posts erased terminus?

I deleted them because this isn't the rumor thread, and there were only two people responding. One decided to turn the thread into a personal soap box about his outdated codex, and the other is a person I dislike so intensely, that if I was transported into the past and presented with a young Hitler and that person's granddad, and I was given a gun with two bullets, I would not hesitate to plug both into grampa just to be sure.

Anyway, I've reposted all the information in the rumor thread if you're looking for it. If you think of something that hasn't been spoiled already, ask there and I will check it out tomorrow morning at the shop.

You know what, Blood angles can take six tanks...

Six fast tanks....with a lot of guns...assault cannons, heavy bolters, autocannons...then more fast transport tanks......

I donno if I'm afraid or in love!

This whole thread is based upon "rumors" until the codex is released to the public april 3rd. The mods can move the entire thread if they think this is misplaced.

terminus wrote: One decided to turn the thread into a personal soap box about his outdated codex and the other is a person I dislike so intensely, that if I was transported into the past and presented with a young Hitler and that person's granddad, and I was given a gun with two bullets, I would not hesitate to plug both into grampa just to be sure.

There really isn't any point in deleting the other posts when you make comments like this that just spark the fire of the earlier argument you started.

starbomber109 wrote:You know what, Blood angels can take six tanks...

Six fast tanks....with a lot of guns...assault cannons, heavy bolters, autocannons...then more fast transport tanks......

I donno if I'm afraid or in love!

Definitely going to be fun to play some proxy blood angels games when it comes out. I would like to see how they match up against the other newer codexes, especially space wolves. Both are very heavy on the close combat, both have some nasty fast attack selections, and both have some interesting psyker powers. Actually, let's go one better. 4 way apoc battle: Space wolves vs Blood angels vs Khorne csm vs Slaanesh csm. One giant bloody mashup in the middle of the board.

DarkHound wrote:

sourclams wrote:Like the Nid codex, it definitely doesn't seem like there are obvious 'win' combos that someone can download off the Internet and just start raping face with.

Which is a good thing. Same thing with the Space Wolf codex before it. I think GW is learning.

Its evolving....

And on a side note, just looked at the Blood angles release page. I need me some death company. They scream sterngaurd conversion time.

I kinda like these Blood Angels. I mean, they really appeal to me, not like the space wolves or the Templars.

They are certainly fantastical (I think that's the operative term for a lot of their options), so if/when Chaos gets redone in the same vein, it will be some 2nd edition style crazy. As for Space Wolves, they do have a great codex, but I'd say they work better as a variation on the traditional SM tactics of rapid fire drive-bys and long-range firepower (and using counter assault and the totem to hit back when assaulted). While the 15-man Blood Claws squad with a Chaplain charging out of a Land Raider will mess some stuff up, I don't think overall they hold a candle to the "FNP+FC everywhere" Angels. Well, I guess they could get FC if they bring Ragnar, but he's as crazy expensive as Mephiston or Astaroth. I'm guessing we'll be seeing Astaroth and Sanguinor a lot more often as conversions standing in for more subdued HQs than the actual character. Space Wolves are the better psykers, while Angels are faster and can put more armor on the field. Overall, both provide very distinct and effective playstyles.

If we don't get a book for Inquisition/Sororitas, Dark Eldar or Chaos this year, I'll probably be doing a DIY Chaos-y chapter using the Wolves codex. I'll mix the SW plastic kits with Chaos ones, use Possessed Space Marines for the Mark of Wulfen, either Chaos Spawn or Bloodcrushers for Thunderwolf cavalry, and some sort of crazed cultist figure to represent the Fenris wolves (maybe those old 4th edition Witch Elves I have laying around). Some of the beefier Chaos Warrior characters may even make for great Lone Wolves with a bit of conversion work.

Just today at my store, I noticed they had the BA codex as a preview. One of the guys working there said there was a lot of powerful stuff, but I didn't get to see it all myself. It can't be that bad, but I have no doubts that the new BA are going to be quite good, at least from what I saw.

I know. My friends are getting tired of me saying, "When the new BA dex comes out, I cant wait to run sanguinary priests alonside my TH/SS terminators..."

I can only imagine the amount of firepower those guys will soak up. Normally its hails of bolter or las fire that force me to roll lots of dice, resulting in failed saves. With FNP, that will all change...

Yeah, I'm definitely bringing Psyker Battle Squads and praying my BA opponents don't roll a 1 for Red Thirst.

FNP does give you a massive advantage . . . and iirc then 5 death company are 100 points . . . =O . . . and so are 5 assault marines . . . =O

Sorry but that is crazy cheap for what looks like 2 of the greatest troop choices available to Marines. Obviously we'll have to see how they play, but for their standard points and abilities, that's a pretty crazy match up. I was expecting more than 5 more points than a vanilla marine . . .

Oshova

Oshova wrote:FNP does give you a massive advantage . . . and iirc then 5 death company are 100 points . . . =O . . . and so are 5 assault marines . . . =O

Sorry but that is crazy cheap for what looks like 2 of the greatest troop choices available to Marines. Obviously we'll have to see how they play, but for their standard points and abilities, that's a pretty crazy match up. I was expecting more than 5 more points than a vanilla marine . . .

Oshova

Your comparison is flawed. 5 Assault Marines with JUMP PACKS cost 100 points. 5 Death Company with JUMP PACKS costs 175 points. 5 Assault Marines on foot cost 65 points. 5 Death Company on foot cost 100 points. The AM are a scoring unit while the DC aren't. The DC have an extra point of WS and A and they automatically FNP and FC but suffer from rage. Jump packs are so overpriced for DC that they can never be worth it, but if you don't feel like using Sanguinary Priests I guess a unit of DC infantry in a Land Raider could almost be worth the cost. Why wouldn't you want to use Sanguinary Priests though? They are medics that are finally very much worth it. Marines & Medics! Let's tag it M&M like in Starcraft.

Furioso Dreadnoughts with the magna grapple seem nice. It costs 140 points but can fire the meltagun and the grapple to 12", both being S8 weapons, meaning it has decent short range anti-tank power. Now if he then succeeds to roll equal or over the enemy vehicle's armour on a D6+8 afterwards, the tank is pulled 2D6 towards the Furioso. I might be stating the obvious, but even at max range you only need to roll 6 on a 2D6 to be able to assault the tank afterwards. The only issue is how to get a bunch of Furiosos close to the enemy. I guess drop poding them is the only viable option.

I was using the standard lay out of the squads . . . And yeah I agree that DC in jumpacks are far too over priced.

Also with the Furioso . . . WS6, Front AV13, and you can equip it with the dreadnought version of lightning claws, that not only allow you to re-roll wounds, but for every unsaved wound you do you get another attack. Yes, this does carry on going until you fail to do anything or the squad is dead. =O

Oshova