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JohnHwangDD wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:Power weapons for all normal GK? IDK but that seems too good to be true. I'd like to see a particular squad with all power weapons - maybe a jump pack squad with just the power weapon and no storm bolter?

if GK get more unit types, how would you fit them all into one army if the points are so high?

I'd like to see the points stay the same, no real new Grey Knight units, just a drop in the cost of weapons - say make psycannons 5 points instead of 25 points

If they end up being the new uber marines, then I'll just be accused of choosing the best army and jumping on the bandwagon :(

so long as I can play a truly GK only army and have to use my head to work out how to beat my opponent rather than just fielding near unbeatable units, then I'll be happy - I certainly don't care for conscripts or stormtroopers at all.

While the SBs give some ranged fire, GKs are inherently assault troops, with their NFWs. Giving them JPs would fit very well, no need to pull the SB, but an integral BP to guarantee an extra attack would be nice way to differentiate the sloggers from the JPs.

Assuming 27 pts per AA GK, and JP GKs, 1500 pts would fit:
* 1 HQ (150),
* 5 GKTs (275),
* 2x 10 AA GKs (275 ea),
* 5 JP GKs (175), a
* a GK Dread (150) and
* 5 AA GK Heavies (200).
It's about the same as what GKs have today. For 2000, just add 2 Land Raiders, or more dudes, to use the points.

I think it's a given that Heavy weapons will be cheaper, now that 40k isn't built around stand-and-shoot, with a comensurate premium on Heavy weapons.

If you field all old models, there won't be any accusation of that!

I think you'll be able to do that just fine. You'll probably have more tools at your disposal, even without Inquisition stuff. Tho some of us are really looking forward to an expanded Inquisition army.

I was thinking that giving a squad of normal GKs, albeit with jump packs power weapons would be too good, hence the idea to drop the SB. i did think of a bolt pistol but seriously, would a squad of jump pack GKs, ALL with power weapons not be too good? I was hoping really that a squad like this would add more tactical flexibility to GKs if they made the purgation squad the GK version of the devastator squad. Then you'd have normal GKs, a highly mobile CC squad and a stand off and rain down hell upon your opponent squad.

The problem I see with a CC squad is how horrendously strong S5 or S6 powerweapons are.

I have never seen GK as an assualt army, yes, they are far above average in an assault, but being I4 they suffer against any elite close combat troops. If they are becoming so much tougher and assaulty, I imagine GK being leading the charge being given support fire by I troops, as opposed to the opposite (expensive gk's giving range support to lots of fodder)

ColdSadHungry wrote:I was thinking that giving a squad of normal GKs, albeit with jump packs power weapons would be too good, hence the idea to drop the SB. i did think of a bolt pistol but seriously, would a squad of jump pack GKs, ALL with power weapons not be too good?

You mean like how Howling Banshees or Necron Pariahs are "too good"? Or Possessed (1/6 of the time)? No, not really worried about it any more than a squad of guys all armed with Heavy Weapons (i.e. Dark Reapers, Obliterators) is "too good".

At 30 pts, S5+ PWs with JPs will be good, but you'll still need to deliver them, and they're not cheap!

Personally, rather than jump packs, I'd like to see a Warp Spider type teleport movement. But I doubt that'll happen...

Melissia wrote:Personally, rather than jump packs, I'd like to see a Warp Spider type teleport movement. But I doubt that'll happen...

This but because it'd be imperial tech the rules would probably change from 'lose one model' when that happens due to the teleport movement to 'the entire squad dies in a horrible and gruesome way!' and the rules will say you have to make screaming death noises to show just how bad it is...

Yeah lets give Grey Knights jump packs. You know what they should do, they should put them in Troop with Jump Packs and Meltaguns and Mephisto should be able to cast a spell on them. Oh wait thats Blood Angels nevermind.

When you say "Chaos Cult Marines", it appears you're talking about Chaos Marines as a whole Codex. GKs will get the SRG, at a minimum, with Vendetta support being very likely on the Inquisition side of the Codex. The supposed inherited weakness is being addressed.

OTOH, if you look at a pure Chaos Cult Marine army, a la Legions, then the choices shrink in a similar way to a pure GK army, and those weaknesses are inherent in the player's choice, yes?

I see your point.
But I do not agree that this is true for pure GK armies, there the previous inherited weakness can very well still be true.
We simply dont know enough about how different HW choices will affect the overal army composition and thus the inbuilt weaknesses and therefore the excuse to price the GK trooper at underpricced costs.

As for chaos cult armies nope, there are no weaknesses there that are comparable to a pure GK list (current).
You can take standard chaos marines along your cult marines, give them the proper mark and voila, you get cheaper cult troops with just the wargear variation to be able to counter anything. nothing, certainly not fluff, prevents for example the obliterator cult joining cult marines to handle anything that is the cults inherited weakness.

Its still a far cry from being forced to take up guardsmen or ISTs to stand a competitive chance of meeting those mech lists.
Pure GKs are supposed to sell well enough so that GW can make a profit but still be badass with rules that show this and not watered down grey SM.

The only logical reasons I see for this, including slight fluff "corrections" by GW, inbuilt weaknesses in the army no matter what list is built, pure GK or watered down by IG will imo come with weaknesses that outweigh the ridiculous undercost of the GKs themselves if they are to be made anything near as rumored. GW cant do rules for GKs that make them cost around 50p per troop model and still sell enough GKs to go around, they need to be cheap and that must imply other weaknesses will be present to counter this.

If we have:
1: Kickass rules, wargear and statlines.
2: Cheap enough so that people will buy enough models to be profitable
3: Next step is self explanatory or else there wont be any balance.

Naturally all we have heard might very well be overblown and the GKs will continue to be priced at 25-ish points each but also not come with any "elite feel" to them (I´d hate that)
or they can come cheap with a kickass statline but in order to somehow equip them to be able to handle armour and mobility you´d pay through the nose but this can tangent the risk of selling to few models so it doesnt sound logical.
More info is needed on how the various HQ selections will alter the army build and its weaknesses.

Melissia wrote:Personally, rather than jump packs, I'd like to see a Warp Spider type teleport movement. But I doubt that'll happen...

There's nothing in the current background to even remotely support or suggest this, is there?

That much teleporting around wouldn't be something that they'd be doing.

An initial teleport strike, and then... something.

Don't know if JP equipped troops are 'right' either.

It should be interesting to see what they end up with though.

I suppose anything's possible, given the... interesting choices of the last few codices...

Pyriel- wrote:

When you say "Chaos Cult Marines", it appears you're talking about Chaos Marines as a whole Codex. GKs will get the SRG, at a minimum, with Vendetta support being very likely on the Inquisition side of the Codex. The supposed inherited weakness is being addressed.

OTOH, if you look at a pure Chaos Cult Marine army, a la Legions, then the choices shrink in a similar way to a pure GK army, and those weaknesses are inherent in the player's choice, yes?

I see your point.

But I do not agree that this is true for pure GK armies, there the previous inherited weakness can very well still be true.
We simply dont know enough about how different HW choices will affect the overal army composition and thus the inbuilt weaknesses and therefore the excuse to price the GK trooper at underpricced costs.

You can take standard chaos marines along your cult marines, give them the proper mark and voila, you get cheaper cult troops with just the wargear variation to be able to counter anything. nothing, certainly not fluff, prevents for example the obliterator cult joining cult marines to handle anything that is the cults inherited weakness.

Its still a far cry from being forced to take up guardsmen or ISTs to stand a competitive chance of meeting those mech lists.
Pure GKs are supposed to sell well enough so that GW can make a profit but still be badass with rules that show this and not watered down grey SM.

The only logical reasons I see for this, including slight fluff "corrections" by GW, inbuilt weaknesses in the army no matter what list is built, pure GK or watered down by IG will imo come with weaknesses that outweigh the ridiculous undercost of the GKs themselves if they are to be made anything near as rumored. GW cant do rules for GKs that make them cost around 50p per troop model and still sell enough GKs to go around, they need to be cheap and that must imply other weaknesses will be present to counter this.

Naturally all we have heard might very well be overblown and the GKs will continue to be priced at 25-ish points each but also not come with any "elite feel" to them (I´d hate that)
or they can come cheap with a kickass statline but in order to somehow equip them to be able to handle armour and mobility you´d pay through the nose but this can tangent the risk of selling to few models so it doesnt sound logical.

More info is needed on how the various HQ selections will alter the army build and its weaknesses.

Yeah, I gotcha.

I'm not sure if you're defining "pure" GK in the same way that you're looking at "pure" Cult armies. Regardless, the current trend is discounted Troops, and Chaos gives a good example of just how good a Troops entry can get. As long as AA GKs are on part with their Chaos brethren (NMs and PMs, specifically), GKs will be fair for both players and opponents.

When you say to Mark basic CSMs (along with Termies, Raptors and Havocs, by extension), then that's taking a half-step outside a "pure" Cult approach. PMs really shouldn't have MoN Raptors, nor KBs with MoK Havoks (by 3E+ Fluff). When you tack on Obliterators to fill the gap in Cult capability, at that point, I think you've well moved away from a "pure" Cult army. And definitely, it's not as strong as the idea that GKs would typically arrive where an Inquisitor as already seconded much of the remaining Loyalist forces and supplemented with his personal army.

When you talk about "pure" GKs not having to supplement with ISTs or Inducted Guard, would you accept SRGs and notional "big gun" SRG variants as part of the GK? What about "Rifleman" Gundreads & Ironclads? Or Landspeeders as mobile fire support?

If you go to my example, I'm suggesting 27 pts for an AAGK, slightly more for adding a JP or HW, while holding the line at 55 pts for a GKT. That really isn't out of line with the Chaos model, nor anywhere close to 50 pts per trooper.

When you say that 25 pts can't be Elite enough, was my proposed 27-pt AA GK not Elite enough? I'd like to think that auto-Fortuned Sv2+, A2 w/ SB or A3 w/ BP, and NFW Power Weapon would be a potent enough, but non-broken combination.

In any case, I do agree we'll need to see more details. I just can't see GW screwing this up with overpriced Troops when it's basically a major relaunch of the army.

The way to think of GK assault squads are as GK riding Storm Ravens, disembarking more accurately and assaulting. Honestly I don't think GK need a dedicated Assault squad unit entry... their standard squad is good enough in that role and I think having a unit with jump packs dilutes their elite status on an army level to have even more specialized units.

Even if Gk were to get units armed with their special weapons, I think Land Speeders, Razorbacks, etc... diminish them as an army. I like options. I like variety of play styles built into an army. It just shouldn't come at the expense of the concept.

I think variety and specialization of units really needs to come in the form of psyker powers. That is their main weapon.

I think the GK will end up with their troop units cheaper, but that to make them really worthwhile you will upgrade them with psyker powers and equipment that quickly push their points cost up.

aka_mythos wrote:The way to think of GK assault squads are as GK riding Storm Ravens, disembarking more accurately and assaulting. Honestly I don't think GK need a dedicated Assault squad unit entry... their standard squad is good enough in that role and I think having a unit with jump packs dilutes their elite status on an army level to have even more specialized units.

Even if Gk were to get units armed with their special weapons, I think Land Speeders, Razorbacks, etc... diminish them as an army.

I think variety and specialization of units really needs to come in the form of psyker powers. That is their main weapon.

I think the GK will end up with their troop units cheaper, but that to make them really worthwhile you will upgrade them with psyker powers and equipment that quickly push their points cost up.

I agree that the basic GK squad is "good enough" as an assualt unit, but then again, so are Boyz and PMs. There's a lot of stuff that various armies get just to fill check boxes, and the GK Teleport Squad is probably the most egregious example of a unit that was created purely for the sake of having a unit in a FOC slot. At least tacking on a JP and swapping the SB for a BP are actual, obvious changes people can see and understand, creating obvious differentation between the units mobility (JP), shooting (SB vs BP), and fighting (A3 vs A2).

I hope against hope that GKs won't have any Rhino chassis vehicles whatsoever. The addition of METAL BAWKSES would be exceedingly lazy and diminish the point of GK being different from regular SMs. OTOH, Landspeeders and JPs "fit" with the SRG and similar "dynamic" units, so I don't have an issue there - but then, that's the only basic vanilla SM vehicle I can see the GKs fielding.

I'm not huge on everything being a Psyker and using Psyker powers for everything - otherwise, why even have the Purgation squads?

If GKs got cheaper, they can't go below 22 or 23 points, or they're no longer elite enough.

Pyriel- wrote:

When you say "Chaos Cult Marines", it appears you're talking about Chaos Marines as a whole Codex. GKs will get the SRG, at a minimum, with Vendetta support being very likely on the Inquisition side of the Codex. The supposed inherited weakness is being addressed.

OTOH, if you look at a pure Chaos Cult Marine army, a la Legions, then the choices shrink in a similar way to a pure GK army, and those weaknesses are inherent in the player's choice, yes?

I see your point.
But I do not agree that this is true for pure GK armies, there the previous inherited weakness can very well still be true.
We simply dont know enough about how different HW choices will affect the overal army composition and thus the inbuilt weaknesses and therefore the excuse to price the GK trooper at underpricced costs.

As for chaos cult armies nope, there are no weaknesses there that are comparable to a pure GK list (current).
You can take standard chaos marines along your cult marines, give them the proper mark and voila, you get cheaper cult troops with just the wargear variation to be able to counter anything. nothing, certainly not fluff, prevents for example the obliterator cult joining cult marines to handle anything that is the cults inherited weakness.

Its still a far cry from being forced to take up guardsmen or ISTs to stand a competitive chance of meeting those mech lists.
Pure GKs are supposed to sell well enough so that GW can make a profit but still be badass with rules that show this and not watered down grey SM.

The only logical reasons I see for this, including slight fluff "corrections" by GW, inbuilt weaknesses in the army no matter what list is built, pure GK or watered down by IG will imo come with weaknesses that outweigh the ridiculous undercost of the GKs themselves if they are to be made anything near as rumored. GW cant do rules for GKs that make them cost around 50p per troop model and still sell enough GKs to go around, they need to be cheap and that must imply other weaknesses will be present to counter this.

If we have:
1: Kickass rules, wargear and statlines.
2: Cheap enough so that people will buy enough models to be profitable
3: Next step is self explanatory or else there wont be any balance.

Naturally all we have heard might very well be overblown and the GKs will continue to be priced at 25-ish points each but also not come with any "elite feel" to them (I´d hate that)
or they can come cheap with a kickass statline but in order to somehow equip them to be able to handle armour and mobility you´d pay through the nose but this can tangent the risk of selling to few models so it doesnt sound logical.
More info is needed on how the various HQ selections will alter the army build and its weaknesses.

GK will still have weaknesses. Lack of long-range tankbusting firepower will probably continue to be an issue. Not having cheap transports like Rhinos and Razorbacks for your baseline objective grabbing troops is another. That weakness is magnified by the fact that with the GK's higher than normal points cost,if you want to use ridiculous units like GKT's with TH/SS,you're not going to be able to get many Troops squads out to grab objectives. That means you're banking on tabling your opponent and/or a KP game to get the W.

As for model sales,people will buy them because they want to try different configurations and GK models are just sweet. I don't think GW is worried about sales for GK. They have a ton of interest from the current community,and it's really only the outdated rules and metal baseline mini's that are holding many people back from starting them. Plus,the way the rumors sound,they will be the noob dream army. Ridiculously tough,high points cost=less minis to buy,and sweet figs. They would be a great starter army for anybody new to the game,as their armor save rerolls will keep people in games.

Whatever1 wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

When you say "Chaos Cult Marines", it appears you're talking about Chaos Marines as a whole Codex. GKs will get the SRG, at a minimum, with Vendetta support being very likely on the Inquisition side of the Codex. The supposed inherited weakness is being addressed.

OTOH, if you look at a pure Chaos Cult Marine army, a la Legions, then the choices shrink in a similar way to a pure GK army, and those weaknesses are inherent in the player's choice, yes?

I see your point.
But I do not agree that this is true for pure GK armies, there the previous inherited weakness can very well still be true.
We simply dont know enough about how different HW choices will affect the overal army composition and thus the inbuilt weaknesses and therefore the excuse to price the GK trooper at underpricced costs.

As for chaos cult armies nope, there are no weaknesses there that are comparable to a pure GK list (current).
You can take standard chaos marines along your cult marines, give them the proper mark and voila, you get cheaper cult troops with just the wargear variation to be able to counter anything. nothing, certainly not fluff, prevents for example the obliterator cult joining cult marines to handle anything that is the cults inherited weakness.

Its still a far cry from being forced to take up guardsmen or ISTs to stand a competitive chance of meeting those mech lists.
Pure GKs are supposed to sell well enough so that GW can make a profit but still be badass with rules that show this and not watered down grey SM.

The only logical reasons I see for this, including slight fluff "corrections" by GW, inbuilt weaknesses in the army no matter what list is built, pure GK or watered down by IG will imo come with weaknesses that outweigh the ridiculous undercost of the GKs themselves if they are to be made anything near as rumored. GW cant do rules for GKs that make them cost around 50p per troop model and still sell enough GKs to go around, they need to be cheap and that must imply other weaknesses will be present to counter this.

If we have:
1: Kickass rules, wargear and statlines.
2: Cheap enough so that people will buy enough models to be profitable
3: Next step is self explanatory or else there wont be any balance.

Naturally all we have heard might very well be overblown and the GKs will continue to be priced at 25-ish points each but also not come with any "elite feel" to them (I´d hate that)
or they can come cheap with a kickass statline but in order to somehow equip them to be able to handle armour and mobility you´d pay through the nose but this can tangent the risk of selling to few models so it doesnt sound logical.
More info is needed on how the various HQ selections will alter the army build and its weaknesses.

GK will still have weaknesses. Lack of long-range tankbusting firepower will probably continue to be an issue. Not having cheap transports like Rhinos and Razorbacks for your baseline objective grabbing troops is another. That weakness is magnified by the fact that with the GK's higher than normal points cost,if you want to use ridiculous units like GKT's with TH/SS,you're not going to be able to get many Troops squads out to grab objectives. That means you're banking on tabling your opponent and/or a KP game to get the W.

As for model sales,people will buy them because they want to try different configurations and GK models are just sweet. I don't think GW is worried about sales for GK. They have a ton of interest from the current community,and it's really only the outdated rules and metal baseline mini's that are holding many people back from starting them. Plus,the way the rumors sound,they will be the noob dream army. Ridiculously tough,high points cost=less minis to buy,and sweet figs. They would be a great starter army for anybody new to the game,as their armor save rerolls will keep people in games.

Not to mention, easy to paint! A PAGK can look good in a couple hours, if not minutes

Alpharius wrote:

Melissia wrote:Personally, rather than jump packs, I'd like to see a Warp Spider type teleport movement. But I doubt that'll happen...

There's nothing in the current background to even remotely support or suggest this, is there?

That much teleporting around wouldn't be something that they'd be doing.

An initial teleport strike, and then... something.

Don't know if JP equipped troops are 'right' either.

It should be interesting to see what they end up with though.

I suppose anything's possible, given the... interesting choices of the last few codices...

well if you include novels in the fluff then yes jump pack gk exist, with melta pistols no less

Whatever1 wrote:As for model sales,people will buy them because they want to try different configurations and GK models are just sweet. I don't think GW is worried about sales for GK. They have a ton of interest from the current community,and it's really only the outdated rules and metal baseline mini's that are holding many people back from starting them.

Plus,the way the rumors sound,they will be the noob dream army. Ridiculously tough,high points cost=less minis to buy,and sweet figs. They would be a great starter army for anybody new to the game,as their armor save rerolls will keep people in games.

Yup, update the Codex and make the minis plastic, and we'll see GKs sell just fine.

I hadn't though about the rerollable saves making GKs noob-friendly, but yeah, I can see people being attracted to them for that. We had a guy switch from Orks to Necrons because he got sick and tired of picking up models by the handful.

When you say to Mark basic CSMs (along with Termies, Raptors and Havocs, by extension), then that's taking a half-step outside a "pure" Cult approach. PMs really shouldn't have MoN Raptors, nor KBs with MoK Havoks (by 3E+ Fluff). When you tack on Obliterators to fill the gap in Cult capability, at that point, I think you've well moved away from a "pure" Cult army. And definitely, it's not as strong as the idea that GKs would typically arrive where an Inquisitor as already seconded much of the remaining Loyalist forces and supplemented with his personal army.

When you talk about "pure" GKs not having to supplement with ISTs or Inducted Guard, would you accept SRGs and notional "big gun" SRG variants as part of the GK? What about "Rifleman" Gundreads & Ironclads? Or Landspeeders as mobile fire support?

Yes you are right.
My point is though that watering down a chaos cult army by including oblits or marked chaos marines to mend any weaknesses is far from the same thing as watering down a pure GK army by including IG platoons.
Had a chaos cult army being forced to include 5 or 6+ save "crap" in it in order to become balanced it would be a proper comparison. As it is now cults can include cult marked +3 save models and even 2+ save models and this can be said to be a non pure cult army whereas a non pure GK army has not only 4-5-6+ save elements in it but as a majority consists of those.

If I had a choice in how to water down a GK army to make it balanced I´d choose 3+ elements any day over crappy cannonfodder to maintain that elite overall feel in the army.
Thus if I had to I would rather choose SM or GK landspeeders etc etc over IG sentinels and allied SM devastator squads over IG cannonfodder infantry.
Hopefully GW will create something that can be equally used and balanced no matter if it consists of pure GKs or a mix of cannon fodder units and inquisitors.

A pure GK army is only PA and TA GKs with GK HQ(s). This doesnt work currently.
A pure cult army is for example loads of plague marines in cheap transports, the inherited weaknesses cant even be comparable since compared to the pure GK version the pure cult army can be said to not have any weaknesses to speak of.

A rumored GK statline and gear would in reality (inserted to a normal SM codex) be worth around 40 points a model imo.
The 2+ save is one thing but the save reroll is major. Even against AP2 weapons and AP2 templates common terrain 4+ cover saves will be rerollable and I with psychic powers or inv saves rerolls are significant as well vs power weapons and such. A 2+ normal save with a reroll means no "normal" weapons will ever be able to touch a grey knight, all the bolters, lasguns etc in the opponents army are pretty much wasted. That is worth quite some points there.

As for jump packs with rerollable 2+ saves it lowers the time the GKs are in the open even more.

However, in order to actually sell armies of GK minis a point cost of 20-30p for a basic PAGK and 45-50 for a GKT would be in order or else I cant see GW break even on the cost of producing them.
I guess that if you select GK HQs with the new codex you will be able to build a pure GK army that cant cost-efficiently cover their inbuilt weaknesses to balance up the insane power levels of the knights themselves (that or no GKs besides termies will ever be given inv saves to create a true weak spot).

If you mix in non GK HQs and open up IG units then I guess certain GK units or choices wont be available to create strenghts and new inbuilt weaknesses all across the line of possible GK army builds to achieve the super elite feel but with maintained model count. At least this is my wishlist for the codex and it also sound logical.
I too would hate to see weak transport options for GKs or at least for pure GK armies, I cant see such expensive troops being sent into the fiercest of battles protected by a tin can.
I can however, for the same reason see jump pack equipped GKs. Anything that lowers their approach time into melee and out from the guns of the enemy.

Anyway, we are merely guessing and wishing with nothing concrete to go at. The only thing substantial that we could do would be to calculate the average worth of having 2+ armours with rerolls.
If the GK codex is out due in jan. I would expect some more solid facts to start hitting the boards in a month or so.

As for model sales,people will buy them because they want to try different configurations and GK models are just sweet. I don't think GW is worried about sales for GK.

I dont agree.
I dont think a big money making company with a duty to see to its stock share holders can simply wing sales based on people "maybe" buying models in enough numbers simply because they look good if the rulebook being made for them intends the common GK army collector to get 10 GKs and 5 GK terminators for his 1850p army.

Remember the lengths GW went to when they needed to figure out weather plastic ISTs were even worth making. They arent going to do anything other then try to maximize sales of newly sculpted and cast model ranges since GW is a business, not a charity.

I hadn't though about the rerollable saves making GKs noob-friendly, but yeah, I can see people being attracted to them for that. We had a guy switch from Orks to Necrons because he got sick and tired of picking up models by the handful.

Me neither.
Good point!

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm not huge on everything being a Psyker and using Psyker powers for everything - otherwise, why even have the Purgation squads?

If GKs got cheaper, they can't go below 22 or 23 points, or they're no longer elite enough.

I think its the distinction between the uber psyker GK versus those just adept at resisting chaos. This is my own rationalizing thought, but those who are psychically potent within the GK would likely become the members who are stomping around in terminator armor as more elite members while those not gifted in that way would be given the more fire support role, utilizing the less psyker approach.

This is kinda what I was getting at before... I think when it comes to GK it could be a matter of making it character centric, if powers are purchased like special weapons cantered around the Justicars the points could be displaced. Where by something practically mandatory, like the Justicar is over priced while the extra models are under priced. Over all the units cost would balance out the same, but leaves open the possibility of a cheaper mass of troops.

With the rumours of more weapons options such as wrist mounted cyclones, what do the board vets think of the idea of a GK Termie squad allowed several heavy weapons as a HS slot. A squad of 5 cyclone armed GKs would alleviate the lack of anti-tank.....

GK with Jump Packs sounds like something GW would do if people stopped playing their game. "OK look guys from now on GK get Jump Packs OK?"

wolfshadow wrote:With the rumours of more weapons options such as wrist mounted cyclones, what do the board vets think of the idea of a GK Termie squad allowed several heavy weapons as a HS slot. A squad of 5 cyclone armed GKs would alleviate the lack of anti-tank.....

That be a lot of missiles coming from a 5 man group @_@

Regardless, I think we will see some jaw dropping craziness. Violations of canon and loads of new models for everyone to admire or hate. At the last US Gamesday, I spoke with a Dev from Fantasy Flight Games concerning the Deathwatch RPG and if it was canon. Yes it is nearly 100% canon, I asked what wasnt, he pointed out minor issues such as names and places but they were given the green light to write up (with guidance from GW) the history, etc, of the Deathwatch...same will go for the Sisters of Battle coming later this year. He said that GW has a set canon that they dont deviate from - Emperor on throne, Horus bad, Space Marines are awesome, etc. However, they have creative freedom to rewrite fluff to update/enhance exisiting canon...or remove completely due to incompatibality with current fluff. Fluff doesnt equal canon. They have guidelines that we will never see or understand unless a GW writer quits, violates his secrecy agreement and spreads the Primordial Truth of GW canon. I have no idea where I was going with this.

Oh. I dont imagine they are going to destroy the concept of the GK army, it will be GK at its core but we will see new twists to its canon as they expand an army where information is limited and "mysterious".

So lets recap:

Re-rollable saves all around (Cover, armor, invuln)
2+ Save on basic dudes
Still have WS5, 2A, and S6 on basic dudes
Potentially getting jump packs

Is it just me or is this thread requiring more than a little bit of salt to digest?

Oh screw it, let me reveal MY special knowledge about the new GK Codex. It came from multiple, RELIABLE sources. No salt is needed to believe this, for blessed is the mind with no room for doubt:

Since Grey Knights are Knights, they all get to ride the Space Ponies of the Emperah, and as such will move as Cavalry.

Additionally, the Inquisition has created a special breeding program for Emperah Space Ponies, creating "His Unbelievably Resilient Really Radical Space Ponies". As such, all Grey Knight Terminators get to ride HURRR Space Ponies for an additional 2 points per model.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:So lets recap:

Re-rollable saves all around (Cover, armor, invuln)
2+ Save on basic dudes
Still have WS5, 2A, and S6 on basic dudes
Potentially getting jump packs

Is it just me or is this thread requiring more than a little bit of salt to digest?

Oh screw it, let me reveal MY special knowledge about the new GK Codex. It came from multiple, RELIABLE sources. No salt is needed to believe this, for blessed is the mind with no room for doubt:

Since Grey Knights are Knights, they all get to ride the Space Ponies of the Emperah, and as such will move as Cavalry.

Additionally, the Inquisition has created a special breeding program for Emperah Space Ponies, creating "His Unbelievably Resilient Really Radical Space Ponies". As such, all Grey Knight Terminators get to ride HURRR Space Ponies for an additional 2 points per model.

Yeah, I heard that rumor too, the ponies are going to be pink IIRC

Voodoo Boyz wrote:So lets recap:

Re-rollable saves all around (Cover, armor, invuln)
2+ Save on basic dudes
Still have WS5, 2A, and S6 on basic dudes
Potentially getting jump packs

Is it just me or is this thread requiring more than a little bit of salt to digest?

How dare you bring reason onto the Internet! How very dare you.


I think salt should be applied to pretty much everything to do with the Grey Knights until a known, reliable source says something, ala Harry.

In that case, would you consider the 2+ saves confirmed? As I think Harry was the source of that.

If that's the case then I would trust that to an extent, add that to the rest and not so much...

But hey, I'm no expert. Believe it or not.

With the rumours of more weapons options such as wrist mounted cyclones, what do the board vets think of the idea of a GK Termie squad allowed several heavy weapons as a HS slot. A squad of 5 cyclone armed GKs would alleviate the lack of anti-tank.....

Logical.
The fewer model count there is in the army the more each of the dwindling units need to be able to accomplish on their own.

Pyriel- wrote:

With the rumours of more weapons options such as wrist mounted cyclones, what do the board vets think of the idea of a GK Termie squad allowed several heavy weapons as a HS slot. A squad of 5 cyclone armed GKs would alleviate the lack of anti-tank.....

Logical.
The fewer model count there is in the army the more each of the dwindling units need to be able to accomplish on their own.

Still broken if the shrouding exists, even in it's current 3d6 form.

Still broken if the shrouding exists, even in it's current 3d6 form.

You deduct this from rumors?

Unless and until GK get transports other than Land Raiders, they will continue to be a fail army as the lack of transports translates into a lack of tactical flexibility. I don't care what kind of saves they get or how awesome they may be in CC, unless you can move them around the field other than just teleporting them on, they won't be able to keep up with other 5th Ed armies.