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Love the Grand dreadnought, definitely makes me want to pick up a few FW dreads. Working on that Battle Report and just need some people to get back to me about their problems, should have both sometime early next week.

Im not a fan of the All is dust rule for the 1k sons. I like the 4+ invuln much better. Other than that its pretty cool.

Praxiss wrote:i quite like the Grand Dread rules. One query. You mention that it can't cast a psyker power if it rolls a 1 on the Crazed table, but then the Crazed rule isn't mention in the profile.

Is this a typo or is it just assumed that all Chaos Dreads are subject to the Crazed rule?

My exact thoughts as well. Aside from that, I like it immeasurably! One thing I noticed...

MON is pretty underwhelming. HBs usually always wound on a 3+ (against marines) anyway, and against guard, tau, DE, etc, it would be a serious handicap (although a smart player wouldn't even take a HB against those armies )


Seems fantastic, although the name is a bit blase Maybe "INCORRIGIBLE DREADNOUGHT", or "IRREDEEMABLE DREADNOUGHT" Something Brutal, yet witty


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Hawk wrote:Im not a fan of the All is dust rule for the 1k sons. I like the 4+ invuln much better. Other than that its pretty cool.

They had all is dust in third edition, and they were amazing. Try it out before you knock it

The argument could be made that the Thousand Sons simply need a +3 invul.
How is it that the Chosen Space Marines of the psyker god can't get a +3, but a storm shield can?
Add onto that that 1k Sons can't get storm shields (or anyone in Chaos for that matter) and it seems kind of silly.
A +3 invul would make them significantly harder to kill, and not make them seems plaguey.

woodbok wrote:I like the codex, But I've got confused by something. On the predator profile, it says"Hellcannon". On the summery, it says"hellfire". Was this a typo?

Whoops. Yep, that's a typo: they're both the same Str6, AP3 weapon; I'll fix that now. Thanks!

Praxiss wrote:i quite like the Grand Dread rules. One query. You mention that it can't cast a psyker power if it rolls a 1 on the Crazed table, but then the Crazed rule isn't mention in the profile.

Is this a typo or is it just assumed that all Chaos Dreads are subject to the Crazed rule?

Whoops. Yep, that's another typo; it's a result of C&P'ing the Dreadnought page. Good catch!

iproxtaco wrote:Love the Grand dreadnought, definitely makes me want to pick up a few FW dreads. Working on that Battle Report and just need some people to get back to me about their problems, should have both sometime early next week.

Cheers man. Thanks for the update too, I look forward to it!

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Praxiss wrote:i quite like the Grand Dread rules. One query. You mention that it can't cast a psyker power if it rolls a 1 on the Crazed table, but then the Crazed rule isn't mention in the profile.

Is this a typo or is it just assumed that all Chaos Dreads are subject to the Crazed rule?

My exact thoughts as well. Aside from that, I like it immeasurably! One thing I noticed...

MON is pretty underwhelming. HBs usually always wound on a 3+ (against marines) anyway, and against guard, tau, DE, etc, it would be a serious handicap (although a smart player wouldn't even take a HB against those armies )


Seems fantastic, although the name is a bit blase Maybe "INCORRIGIBLE DREADNOUGHT", or "IRREDEEMABLE DREADNOUGHT" Something Brutal, yet witty

glad you like it; judging from the feedback it'll probably go in the 'dex in this case.

I'll change the Heavy Bolter then; maybe 2+ or remove that part of the rule altogether...

I'm not sold on the name either tbh, but I'm not really sold on the ones you suggested either!
Cheers Samus!

Hawk wrote:Im not a fan of the All is dust rule for the 1k sons. I like the 4+ invuln much better. Other than that its pretty cool.

Cheers. The problem is with the current all is dust (4++) is that it doesn't make them any tougher against Small Arms fire, against which they are supposed to be extremely resilient; combine this with the fact they cost almost 50% more than an average Space Marine and it's a problem IMHO.

Sharkvictim wrote:The argument could be made that the Thousand Sons simply need a +3 invul.
How is it that the Chosen Space Marines of the psyker god can't get a +3, but a storm shield can?
Add onto that that 1k Sons can't get storm shields (or anyone in Chaos for that matter) and it seems kind of silly.
A +3 invul would make them significantly harder to kill, and not make them seems plaguey.

As I said to Hawk, 3++ doesn't make them any tougher against small arms fire which is supposed to be incredibly ineffective against TS. Similarly, combine this with their cost and it doesn't bode well IMHO.
As to the Storm Shield vs. Tzeentch; I think the storm shield manages it on account of being a large, reliable piece of technology...

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Any name suggestions for the 'Venerable Dreadnought'? I know I'm not sold on Grand Dreadnought. Other consideration I had were:
- Lord Dreadnought
- Arch-Dreadnought
- Dreadnought Magnate (probably my personal favourite)

Thoughts?

Exalted Dreadnought
Entombed Chaos Lord


Just ideas.

For the mark of nurgle, you can make its heavy bolter a poisoned 3+ and offer a 5 point discount on replacing it with other weapons [since they wouldn't have the rule].

Playtest the Unyielding rule, I think I like it, although in small games when someone has ONE anti-tank weapon, that makes it utterly impossible to kill lest they get lots of glancing hits. Maybe a -1 to enemy rolls on the damage table? Ignore glancing hits? First immobilized result just makes it walk as though through difficult terrain all the time?

Also: 165? Compare to Death Company dreadnought which is also WS5, but has furious charge and ignores shaken and stunned results. Sure it also has rage, but it also has blood talons. It's only 125. Oh and it's fleet.

I'd say no more than 140 base cost, since Unyielding is pretty awesome. Still though, 125 for a Furious charge, fleet, ignore shaken stunned dreadnought, despite it having rage, makes this guy look quite overpriced at 165.

Spellbound wrote:
Also: 165? Compare to Death Company dreadnought which is also WS5, but has furious charge and ignores shaken and stunned results. Sure it also has rage, but it also has blood talons. It's only 125. Oh and it's fleet.

I'd say no more than 140 base cost, since Unyielding is pretty awesome. Still though, 125 for a Furious charge, fleet, ignore shaken stunned dreadnought, despite it having rage, makes this guy look quite overpriced at 165.

QFT

significantly over priced IMO

I'd say it's more akin to the Venerable Dreadnought, than the Furioso, the former of which it's the same price as. The way I priced it (roughly) was:
+15pts for WS5, BS5 (could argue it's 10pts worthy, in which case I'll drop it down)
+10pts for removal of crazed
+25-30pts for Unyielding (lets say it's 5pts a turn).

I'll probably drop it down to 160 however, assuming it goes in the Codex.

I figured Unyielding is probably on par with Venerable, however in regards to smaller point games, hopefully it's balanced by the number of points spent on such a model alongside it being less durable than a Land Raider, which are also high risk/reward at such points?

For MON on the Grand Dread, why not have it so MON makes all bolter ammo poisoned (3+). That way you can take the Heavy Boltr for weight of fire, but you also know that your lowly TL bolter can wound anything as well.

It might also make more people think about taking the HB when they play armies like Nids with high T models. As it is right now i dont think many people take the B option on dread. I know I never do.

Praxiss wrote:For MON on the Grand Dread, why not have it so MON makes all bolter ammo poisoned (3+). That way you can take the Heavy Boltr for weight of fire, but you also know that your lowly TL bolter can wound anything as well.

It might also make more people think about taking the HB when they play armies like Nids with high T models. As it is right now i dont think many people take the B option on dread. I know I never do.

I'm liking that idea Praxiss.

Also, does the Rhino have fire points? Or was that deliberately left out so you had to buy Open-Topped?

Removing crazed costs points? I don't think we ever received a discount in the first place.

I dunno if this has been raised or not, but do the bonuses given to Lesser and Greater Daemons through Marks give them the same profile as those in the Daemons of Chaos codex? If so, fantastic, as I didn't think to check before now, if not, did you consider just putting the rules for Bloodletter etc.. in the codex? Also, what about drop-pods?

iproxtaco wrote:I dunno if this has been raised or not, but do the bonuses given to Lesser and Greater Daemons through Marks give them the same profile as those in the Daemons of Chaos codex? If so, fantastic, as I didn't think to check before now, if not, did you consider just putting the rules for Bloodletter etc.. in the codex? Also, what about drop-pods?

Nope, they give the bonuses described in (my) the Codex, regarding a copy and paste from the Daemons Codex, I didn't do this for multiple reasons:
- In their Codex, they are more balanced in that they have to weather a turn of enemy fire upon arrival; with the summoning methods here this wouldn't be the case and therefore you could easily have a large mob of power-weapon toting Bloodletters appear in your face and assault into your lines unharmed.
- The Daemons Codex is their Codex; in a way it would be stealing their thunder per se.
- Greater Daemons have a similar balancing factor above, add to that they have wings and that too is a problem; one of the balancing factors for existing Greater Daemons is their lack of manoeuvrability, take this away and add in the summoning rules...

I also didn't represent Dread Claws as a passenger-killing, rare, target-killing, then taker-offering transport is pretty damn difficult to represent in game IMHO. If I were to make it a normal Drop-pod, then it's just the same as the SM 'pod which again is stealing their thunder per se. and isn't too original IMHO.

----

Currently working on the update for the next version. After 'taco's feedback, that may be the final version methinks.

Something that came into my mind is that maybe World Eater armies shouldn't only be unable to take sorcerers, but also all units capable of using psychic powers at all (psyker daemon princes, SC psykers, and the like).

Also, maybe Sorcerers should be able to become sorcerer lords (if thousand sons).

Fair enough, but I am glad that Daemons are field-able in a better way than before, it's very pleasing fluff-wise for me. The Dread Claw is the thing I was thinking of, it would be pretty difficult to represent. Maybe some form of deepstrike turn one jump vehicle with a table, like roll one D6, on a roll of a one some units inside are allocated wounds, on a 6, units can assault the same turn.

I hope to get the report and niggles presented clearly by Wednesday at the latest, some of the guys are pretty slow, and I don't like to pester them at all, lest I incur the ire of the neckbeard overlords.

Both of those are pretty much already the case;
Daemon Princes with MoK cannot take Psychic Powers and if a Psychic Power is rolled on Gift of the Gods then it's +1 strength instead. This means that models in a World Eaters warband can only be a psyker if unmarked.

If you look at the TS warband entry, their special rule upgrade is Sorcerer Lord, effectively providing Guide.

Cheers!


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iproxtaco wrote:Fair enough, but I am glad that Daemons are field-able in a better way than before, it's very pleasing fluff-wise for me.

I hope to get the report and niggles presented clearly by Wednesday at the latest, some of the guys are pretty slow, and I don't like to pester them at all, lest I incur the ire of the neckbeard overlords.

Particularly as a Word Bearers played I'd imagine!

That's fine man, I'm not trying to rush you, just stating my intentions. As I've said, the feedback is appreciated fullstop.

From a personal view, was there a reason that certain warband rules like Dark Apostle, Chaos Master aren't applicable to Sorcerers? I see that Icon of the TS makes a Sorcerer a Lord, but I would have preferred to put my Icon rule on a terminator sorcerer from a fluff perspective. Sorry if I'm reading it wrong.

The Dread Claw is the thing I was thinking of, it would be pretty difficult to represent. Maybe some form of deepstrike turn one jump vehicle with a table, like roll one D6, on a roll of a one some units inside are allocated wounds, on a 6, units can assault the same turn.

Daemon Princes with MoK cannot take Psychic Powers and if a Psychic Power is rolled on Gift of the Gods then it's +1 strength instead. This means that models in a World Eaters warband can only be a psyker if unmarked.

Sure, but you can after all combine two warbands in one army. For example having a second DP as HQ, not from world eaters, be a psyker. Would Khorne allow something like that?

If you look at the TS warband entry, their special rule upgrade is Sorcerer Lord, effectively providing Guide.

Oh I know that. I just thought that usual sorcerers cannot get that upgrade, which I think they should be able to.

Saintspirit wrote:

Daemon Princes with MoK cannot take Psychic Powers and if a Psychic Power is rolled on Gift of the Gods then it's +1 strength instead. This means that models in a World Eaters warband can only be a psyker if unmarked.

Sure, but you can after all combine two warbands in one army. For example having a second DP as HQ, not from world eaters, be a psyker. Would Khorne allow something like that?

Yes, but then the HQ wont be World Eaters or Khorne aligned. Khorne realizes the need for allegiance to ensure victory, but his servants shun the use of Sorcery. Dave has succeeded in making it so that no Khorne aligned character can use it.

It is just that it is only sorcerers that may not be taken, but everything else with psychic powers (as long as they belong to a different warband).

Yes, so long as they belong to a different Warband, which shouldn't really conflict with anything because they can't be affiliated with Khorne regardless.

You should bring the zombies back

Only give them 0-1 per army, unit cap of 10-50, Always attack last in combat, feel no pain but on a 5+(OR and that will be back necron thing), slow and purposeful, give them the same stats as a guardsmen, but with weaponskill 2 and cant claim objectives, Get extra attacks the more they outnumber you aswell

And there you have it, doesn't seem over powered, but still remains true to the shambling horde idea. Just have to work out a point cost.

"Get extra attacks the more they outnumber you aswell"


quite liked this idea

also i think they should still have the "Join us" rule, that was always a laugh, kill squad of ork boys... they all come back.... as zombies... which generate new zombies..... lots of fun

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 0 3 3 1 1 1 7 6+

Compostion: 10-50

Unit type: Infantry

Transport: Zombies may never use a transport

Wargear: Rotten teeth and broken nails

Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Fearless, Always Strike Last, Must always move towards the nearest enemy non-vehicle, Cannot claim objectives, Undead (FNP on 5+),

For every 2 they outnumber you, they get an extra attack

Join us: Roll a dice for each infantry killed by the zombies. On a 1, add another zombie model

Toastedandy wrote:WS BS S T W I A LD SV
2 0 3 3 1 1 1 7 6+

Compostion: 10-50

Unit type: Infantry

Transport: Zombies may never use a transport

Wargear: Rotten teeth and broken nails

Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Fearless, Always Strike Last, Must always move towards the nearest enemy non-vehicle, Cannot claim objectives, Undead (FNP on 5+),

For every 2 they outnumber you, they get an extra attack

Join us: Roll a dice for each infantry killed by the zombies. On a 1, add another zombie model

Like it. Although I'll never use them, rules are cool.

Yeah it would be a rare sight to see, but it would be fun as hell, forgot to put in the 0-1 though, and need to figure out a point price for them

They are S4 in imperial armour, though.

I dont know how being undead would make them stronger, like as strong as a space marine.

Their maddened flailing might give them increased strength.

EDIT: Actually, it probably wouldn't since they are dead, but I've just watched 28 days later.